My team lead is not meeting the requirements of her job description.

29 Comments

1. AnonymousMay 13,2024 at 3:02PM UTC

   My advice is to take this to your legal team, as they may be more versed on the implications of the international issues. My biggest concern would be the risk that her lapsed license presents to your organization from a liability standpoint. If you want to start sooner, talk with HR about putting her on a PIP, as it appears you have provided verbal communication about her performance. Above all else, begin documenting and saving all communications you have had about her performance. HR is likely more concerned with a mountain of paperwork than anything else. The legal risks are better addressed through the company's attorneys. As for the approval of PTO, that should be at your discretion unless she is under a contract stipulating differently.

2. AnonymousMay 13,2024 at 5:08PM UTC

   You act as a leader and design a PIP

3. Allegre NeeMay 15,2024 at 1:32AM UTC

   HR is not supporting a formal PIP due to her location. I provided them with a draft as well as 20+ documented incidences of her failure to do something. They told me they don't want to get sued.

4. AnonymousMay 15,2024 at 2:34AM UTC

   Then you have your answer loud and clear. You stand down, stay out of her line of support and don't join in any enabling or pursuit of "helpful" guidance or suggestions. This will continue until someone threatens her job and even then probably not. She's unwell but scares your brass.

   I would look for another job.

5. AnonymousMay 16,2024 at 2:48PM UTC

   If you can’t get rid of her or put her on a PIP, can you work around her? Assign a co-lead to pick up the balls she’s dropping and give them the authority to be first go-to. Regulate her to lesser duties and explain why a co-lead is needed, so she understands she’s not meeting expectations and needs to step up in order to solo lead projects moving forward.

6. Lorraine HerreraMay 14,2024 at 12:57PM UTC

   Are these licenses things that she needs to get for the first time? Like study and take a test? Many companies offer help with courses and preparation. If is just renewal, every company I’ve work on pays for license renewal and provides lunch and learn for contact hours. I can understand is frustrating picking up the slack, but I don’t see in your message anything that indicates that you have talked with her, ask why is this happening and if there is something that can be done to adjust it. People sometimes have life changes, is true that sometimes is the employee the one that has to approach and ask for any changes or accommodations, there are things where you cannot take the initiative, but maybe in an open conversation where you show curiosity, you both could figure out how to improve. Days available are days she already won with her job, I think you would create a hostile environment and she will slack more if you deny them without a legit justification. That is the same as saying, I will take your health insurance, employee benefits are not privilege, that is part of the salary package and should be respected. You have facts on your side, measurable facts, like when she doesn’t fulfill her responsibilities or deadlines lost, that is more factual than punishing her with the PTO, that maybe she doesn’t even make that connection. That is like the parents that discipline a child and the child didn’t even know they were doing something wrong. I think the first thing should be the conversation and support for the licenses, if after that she still doesn’t show improvement, then with documented efforts a disciplinary action could be justified.

7. Allegre NeeMay 15,2024 at 1:29AM UTC

   These licenses require significant CE hours which she did not fulfill, resulting in her losing her license. We've spoken many times about the CE hours including her recent review where it was written formally. She has also received at least 3 verbal warnings and 3 emailed statements that she needs to do her hours. She is aware she's not meeting it but not taking any action to resolve it. The CE hours are during normal work time and not added hours, I'm not asking her to do anything outside of her regular work week.

   To clarify the days off, I meant more like I need a manager present during certain time periods. We work a continuous schedule and twice now the other team lead and myself have had overlapping time off (mine is work travel, not PTO) and while I'm out she will take a full week off without any notice to me, so the entire team has no managers present. I have worked in jobs previously where if there was not adequate coverage my requested dates were declined. I'm not trying to punish her. I'm looking to ensure my entire team has someone present if they need help, and others have had days out scheduled and approved months in advance.

8. AnonymousMay 15,2024 at 12:33PM UTC

   I have a similar situation and am considering a demotion that better fits the employee’s situation and skill set. Either that or (we’re a small organization) eliminating the lead role and offering a role with less hours and responsibilities. Are those options?

9. AnonymousMay 17,2024 at 2:28PM UTC

   In Canada, that can be considered constructive dismissal as you changed the role. There are definitely different rules in Canada but you can go down the counseling path.

   I would start the counseling path - first clearly lay out expectations. Show up on time to meetings, maintain licensure, etc. - whatever you expect of the person in the role. If an expectation is not met, you address immediately. If she is late to a meeting, after the meeting follow up privately and state that she was late and ask if there was a business reason. If she isn't managing meetings to end them on time to get to the next one, then coach her through it, etc. Set expectations, hold her accountable, provide feedback, and document. If it doesn't change for the better, call HR, provide the documentation and have them help you put her on a performance plan. I believe in Canada, even if you fire for cause you will pay severance so to someone else's point, the longer she is there the more it will cost if it comes down to that. Hopefully with the right expectations and follow up she will be successful or conversely, decide the job is not for her and look elsewhere. You can terminate in Canada - it is just a bit more difficult and different rules. You can't change the job unless she selects to change the job.

   Good luck.

10. Evelyn LivantMay 15,2024 at 3:10PM UTC

    Got a stupid question: out of respect for her have you brought the problem to her? Allowed her the opportunity to work together to resolve her performance problems? Has she received any feedback from her team so she can work on her opportunities for improvement?

    This video has an example of what I’m thinking of. It’s for job searching, but I think the story is relevant. It starts at timestamp 4:44 https://youtu.be/IV30jAw7dxA?si=TF2pRC4C7MItvR9_

11. Victoria NoltenMay 15,2024 at 3:14PM UTC

    What have you done to address the issues with her directly?

12. AnonymousMay 15,2024 at 5:38PM UTC

    First speak to her directly and confirm in writing that she is failing at her role.

    ?Can I decline her time off requests if she has the time to take? You can if she has gone past the limit in her region. As for the other parts of this process, document all of the issues and be sure to have cc'ed HR in there as well. Put her on a PIP (performance improvement plan) that includes keeping her licensure up to date. Go back to the requirements in the original JD that you hired her for and as the failures she is having are missing there document that line for line. If you get no response in 30 days from when you do this bring legal into this conversation and add in that your team may mutiny as well as you because of this. Frankly a bit of concern for you if your company won't support your leadership and need to fix this problem. Perhaps it is also time for you to shop around.

13. LYNNE0210 OCTOBERMay 16,2024 at 12:53PM UTC

    Document every conversation concerning her and especially those that you have with her. Keep a paper trail in case this moves into an HR grievance situation and or to a legal one. I totally agree with the previous comment from "Anonymous". Always, CYA in these situations.

14. AnonymousMay 16,2024 at 12:58PM UTC

    As part of an acquisition, I inherited a very low performing rep in a remote part of a midwestern state. Working with HR, we decided to move the position to a major metropolitan area. We advised the rep that they could move with the job or take a severance package-

    unsure if a strategy like this would work for your Canadian employee, but might be worth reviewing with HR for their input.

15. AnonymousMay 16,2024 at 1:07PM UTC

    The first of the red flags. She is not maintaining her licenses. IF she doesn't have them - she can not perform her job. Go back to HR with that one issue. Don't muddy the water with anything else. They will have to work with you and her to bring her into compliance. Not having the up to date licenses opens your company and you to a host of potential audit, legal, and disciplinary actions.

    While all of this is going on, continue to document everything, give the employee goals and have weekly check in and providing updates and guidance. While it is more difficult to remove someone from another country, but it can happen.

16. AnonymousMay 16,2024 at 2:29PM UTC

    If you don't have the support of your HR team then I don't know what more you can do. I recommend you address the concerns with her first to understand what's going on, then set expectations going forward with her. Provide a deadline to get certification. Make sure to recap conversation in email to her and ask her to acknowledge. If certification is required for job and she doesn't obtain by deadline, they can terminate because she no longer meets the requirements of the job. In regards to the performance and conduct, continue to monitor and have followups, if she doesn't improve take progressive disciplinary action. Once you have all supporting documentation to show you have tried to give her an opportunity to improve, you will be able to terminate if necessary.

17. Joycelyn M. SiameMay 16,2024 at 3:29PM UTC

    Treat her how you would any other employee. Give her an evaluation, which you should be doing for everyone in the first place. Let her know she is underperforming. If it keeps going on, give her a warning, all the while, research what your options are for associates who live in Canada. HR seems to be kind of useless and is looking out for only the company, and them not getting sued, as opposed to looking at the facts that this employees sucks, for lack of a better term. If you have to get rid of her, make sure all your bases are covered, as you would anyone else. Good luck with this!

18. Tenezee GehndyuMay 17,2024 at 12:54PM UTC

    If this person hasn't taken these steps at all, then they are the problem here to be frank.

19. Debbie HensleyMay 16,2024 at 4:16PM UTC

    Personally, in my personal experience anyway, is team leads are highly overrated. My advice would be to cut the rhetoric and just tell the team lead that she's not measuring up to your expectations when you gave her the job. She'll either appreciate the feedback or she'll eventually leave the position. The key is to be upfront and transparent with what you expect from her.

20. Dolores DuncanMay 16,2024 at 4:56PM UTC

    Debbie Hensley has good starting advice. I suggest documenting ALL communication regarding this and be prepared to :1. Implement a PIP 2. Be prepared for her to not improve 3. Possible termination

21. Chrissy Regan SmytheMay 16,2024 at 5:01PM UTC

    If she is not meeting the licensing requirements, remove her as team lead. Make it a requirement of that role. Your effort to be kind to one person is negatively affecting your other team members. Is that being kind to them? Sometimes we confuse pointing out an employees shortcomings as being unkind. Being kind would be giving your employees the tools to succeed which includes holding her accountable when needed. Be the leader she needs you to be and let her know that failure to meet the requirements of the team lead will mean she will be replaced in that role. That’s not unkind.

22. misskelleypMay 16,2024 at 5:50PM UTC

    You definitely CAN terminated employees in Canada, you just have to go through the correct steps, and pay (through the nose!). The longer she's there, the more you have to pay to terminate her. Talk to the head of your HR and force them to get the ball rolling.

23. Rosa GoesMay 16,2024 at 6:09PM UTC

    You are being too nice. I agree with others. Put her on a PIP for licensing requirements. Once she meets those requirements, put her on a PIP for performance. At this point you will have enough documentation to take further action up to and including termination.

24. maria roseMay 16,2024 at 8:27PM UTC

    Agree with this assessment, when this person assumed the role they are in , they assumed all the responsibilities and required job duties. You, in turn, should be expecting as stated already, that certain job responsibilities would be maintained. Yet now, you are finding that you are not seeing that expected job performance. I don’t understand the hesitation to take an appropriate PIP using the guidelines that HR has concerning their employees in that location. All that you need to do is to create the PIP to reinforce your expectations for the specific job, requirements which has nothing to do with geographical location.

25. Vivian HwaMay 16,2024 at 10:08PM UTC

    HR doesn't have the right to say they are too lazy to do their job...it may cost time and money to go through the necessary steps, but it beats having dead weight and a roadblock for years.

26. RitaMay 17,2024 at 12:38PM UTC

    In order to not be vulnerable to a wrongful dismissal lawsuit an employer needs to give the appearance of reasonable efforts to improve your employees performance. Generally the "3 strikes" principle works well. Offering/requiring training doesn't hurt either. In Canada vacation time is a right so you cannot just tell her she cannot take time off. What you can do is inform her if she does take the time off she will probably miss her deadline. If you document (email is easy way) her continued failures in her role as described in the job description you can after, say 3 documented failures with reasonable time/resources given, dismiss her with cause. You may also discuss your issues and offer her a generous severance package to ask her to resign. This usually goes better when you've documented enough that it's a "slam dunk" in a Canadian court. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. It is what I have heard from friends who work at law firms who have to be very careful with these laws. Canada does not force employers to keep staff who are an undue drain on the businesses because they cannot perform their duties. It only requires documentation of inability of that employee to fulfill their role, should the employee seek damages in court. Hope that is some help.

27. AnonymousMay 17,2024 at 12:50PM UTC

    This description has brought up so many questions. You are 1.5 years in and is she just now underperforming? Or has she always been? Also, she was brought on because you desperately needed help? Was she thrown into her position without much onboarding or training? Were expectations ever discussed with her? It sounds like you went to HR when you were displeased, and did not communicate with her first. Most of performance issues stem from superiors lacking, not neccessarily the employees. That lack can be in support, communication, expectations, motivation, attention to work load, etc. It almost sounds like there might be a little resentment from this employee toward you which is why she is missing meetings and taking off leaving you with the work. I mean, that is what I'm assuming because her subordinates are coming to you to talk behind her back about her competence because of licenses? Sounds a little toxic to me. Instead of trying to fire her, sit her down and try to repair the relationship and set the expectations. Find out what is causing these missed meetings and the constant need to take time off. Thats what a real boss does.

28. Beth StevensMay 17,2024 at 2:10PM UTC

    You've said that that you've got documentation of conversations regarding her performance, but is there anything that details repercussions if not addressing the issues that she needs to work on? I would think that there would be some sort of measurable point that if she does not achieve required licenses by XX date, then she is "subject to further disciplinary action up to and including termination". That's always been a standard line on performance reviews that show "needs improvement" or "unacceptable". As far as taking the time off while you're out of the office, I would then clearly state that during the time you're out for work travel, no one is allowed to take vacation due to coverage. Is there a clear work calendar that shows when you'll be out of the office in advance? Perhaps this employee is assuming since you're out, it's ok for her to be out, or is unaware of the need for there to be constant coverage. If this has been a pattern over the past 1.5 years and it's never been seriously addressed, then she may just think "well I did it before, so I'm going to do it again". Again, I'm not seeing much in the post or follow up responses that says there's been any documented repercussions for her actions where she's been made aware. Sometimes being the boss means you can't be nice especially since it appears this employee is taking advantage or just not self-aware of how her actions are affecting you and others in the business.

29. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMEMay 17,2024 at 5:32PM UTC

    Have you considered putting her on a Performance Improvement Plan (PIP)? The longer you decline to take action, the longer she may feel that her poor performance is acceptable.

    She may live in Canada; however, the US based company has rights. At he time of her employee orientation, did she receive and sign for the company's employee handbook? Is she a member of a company union?

    Does the US HR department have a counterpart in Canada? If yes, then they may need to prepare the PIP together.

    Don't wait to take disciplinary actions. She is manipulative and is setting a bad example for the team.