DISCUSSIONS

I was laid off and have been job searching since about a month after it happened.

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Anonymous

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I was laid off and have been job searching since about a month after it happened. I got the offer I wanted most, in fact the only offer I got. I'd talked to my coach, and my mentor, and joined a very positive webinar on how to negotiate an offer. I asked for too much in retrospect, though I thought I was doing everything right. They rescinded my offer. Just rescinded it and I am devastated. I wanted that job so much and it ticked so many boxes for me. I don't know how I'm going to fill all of the hours ahead of me til I 'get over this' like I've had to get over some huge blows over the last few years. I caution anyone in a bad situation who gets an offer that's reasonable against listening to people who have your best interests at heart but can't guarantee you the best will come of your actions. This may not be the advice you want to hear. This may not be the advice others will give you. This is certainly not the advice I wish I were giving, but it's something to think about nonetheless. And PLEASE don't say 'you dodged a bullet.' I didn't and telling me that is not helpful. It seems like I did, but I know in my heart I would have loved that job and that there isn't something like that coming down the pike again. While I don't think HR did the right, or best, thing, negotiating and listening to pollyanna stories was my choice. It's not the job market we're hearing it is unless you're in fast food. Make sure you can live with yourself if you do what I did; I'm not sure I can.

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  1. Anonymous

    I am so sorry this happened. Please work on forgiving yourself.

  2. Anonymous

    I literally have no idea how. Other than a very large pay cut (22k) it was all I've ever really wanted. I feel like I threw my baby under a car. At my age (51) this was a terrible time to make this stupid, stupid mistake.

  3. Anonymous

    Oh I feel your pain because you've built this particular position up to be the only job that would fit your dream. And we all do that. It's not necessarily a bad thing but its when that becomes the ONLY dream job that this thinking can cripple us.

    You used a tried and true AND accepted process in dealing with your offer. A process of negotiation that is used by processe thousands of times a day. Ijust negotiated my offer not too long ago and went back 3x to get the best salary and benefits included in my package. This is routine and there is no way you could have predicted that this "dream" company would act so unprofessionally. Even if there was no wiggle room on salary. A legitimate and professional company would have just come back and said sorry, the is the best we can offer right now, "would you still be interested ".

    That is the professional and logical response. To be complete a××holes about the process and shut the door means they or this particular recruiter had an agenda or a personal style for wielding power. Tell me how on earth could you have known that?????

    I know that this is not what you want to hear. And that right now you believe that this was the only Dream Job at your only Dream Company and that one wholly professional and common decision has ruined your career and every job from here on out will be crap. I get the fear and disappointment there. I do.

    I am here to tell you that none of this is true but until the disappointment and horror lifts over time, you will not see it.

    For that I am so sorry and I want you to give is time.

  4. Anonymous

    Awesome!

  5. Anonymous

    thank you. i want you to be right. it's pretty much the only thing i've applied to since June that I could even remotely see me enjoying. The rest is all horrible, boring, etc. I know that must sound entitled. I don't expect work to be a wish granting machine, but I find myself, for a bunch of reasons, in a weird situation where I am trying desperately to get something that will pay me, but I know A. the pay cut will be huge for every position and B. it'll be in a sub field I truly cannot stand. And knowing that, and knowing what I did--screwing myself--I can't see straight. I hope to god something comes up that I like. That uses my skills, allows me to contribute, and teaches me something. I want to be in a non profit environment and all I'm seeing is corporate america, making widgets, for shitty pay.

  6. Anonymous

    If I'd said yes, I wouldn't have to keep searching, every single day, esp for jobs I do not want. It feels, right now, like it's going to destroy me. Starting yet another new psych med tomorrow. I'm so tired of it.

  7. Anonymous

    The same thing happened to me last month. Received an offer and when I countered for more money they recended the offer. I am unemployed an only have a few thousand dollars left but I still don't regret my decision. I know my worth and to me if you felt like what they offered compensation wise why did you ask for more? Is it because you felt you deserved more too? I'm sorry you lost this job but if they were this rigid with pay their overall culture maybe rigid as well. Everything always looks good from the outside until you actually get the job. I think its all about perspective.

  8. Anonymous

    I asked about the poss of a number of things, b/c everything I read and studied and eveyrone I talked to encouraged it. Again, the decision was mine, of course and i own that. I very, very much regret my decision. I have been hearing how the offer is the 'first offer' and 'everyone expects you to negotiate' and even though I've always tried that in the past, and it's never worked, I thought: well, I've talked to experts and hiring people, I've been part of the webinars, I've read the documentation provided by my career coach'--and it was all a mistake. I very much hope that for others doing those things work out but it was disastrous for me. I want to counter the 'it won't happen that the offer is taken back'--it can. I don't thin it's common but I never saw this coming. I asked for 4k more. hoping to get 2k.

  9. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I'm really sorry to hear that your offer was pulled.

    The people who you heard "how the offer is the 'first offer' and 'everyone expects you to negotiate" from - where they recruiters? People who negotiate offers for a living?

  10. Anonymous

    Coaches from a coaching service /-placement service and a mentor assigned to me by my profesionall organization. And now no one knows what to say to me. And I feel like a fool, plus I have no job, and no money coming in at all (I have savings), depression, no real reason to get out of bed. I mean, it's just a horrible, horrible time for this to be happening. I keep applying and I'm trying to find things I'd like to do and tht I'd be good at but this field I've moved into pretty much bores me to death But I gotta eat.

  11. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I am so, so very sorry to hear this happened to you but you didn't answer my question.

    where they recruiters? People who negotiate offers for a living?

    Don't feel like a fool and stop beating yourself up. This is not the only job for you. Trust me.

    What do you do and why, specifically, do you seem to think this is the only job in the world for you?

  12. RMW324

    I'm so sorry this happened to you.

    It sounds like you have a strong background/experience/education, not to mention the support of a coach/mentor. If you're in a low paying field that bores you to death...could it be time for a change? Could they possibly help you find a different field that you could enjoy and transfer your skills to?

    I know being a career changer is hard, but not impossible. Is it something you've considered?

    Also, had you considered reaching out to HR in the job that rescinded the offer to see if the offer is still open on their terms? Its seems like a bit of an ego blow, but I think you're taking a blow here either way.

    Hoping the best for you...

  13. Anonymous

    I was pushed out of my career by bad bosses and haven't been able to get back in. I gotn recruited a few years ago (the job just laid me off in June) into a different field and was happy to get the offer, for sure But it's not really what I like or want to do. And I don't have a lot of experience b/c I was just laid off, and that puts me at the bottom of the totem pole But I have a huge education, and i'm 51, so that makes the average place not want to hire me. It's a bad catch 22, but I will keep plugging away.

  14. Anonymous

    I have heard to ask if the salary offered is negotiable before putting out a counteroffer.

  15. Anonymous

    that is really smart.

  16. Cindy Lacey

    If you have the option, I would suggest you give feedback to the people who gave you that advice.

  17. Andrea Macklin

    I’m sorry your offer got rescinded. Negotiations of salary are a myth these days. I’ve yet to hear of a positive on this.

  18. Anonymous

    *sigh* I wish I'd known this. The job that laid me off (job moved overseas) gave me 3 months of career coaching and it pushed negotiating, as did my mentor (not with that coaching firm). I remember the dean of my first MS program (I have an MS, MA and finishing and MPhil) saying: if they want you, they're not going to lose you and start all over for 2K. Well...untrue.

  19. Cindy Lacey

    Unfortunately a lot of career coaches are out of touch with how the world works today. I would take everything they say with a healthy pinch of salt.

  20. Anonymous

    I understand that. This is a fear of mine as well. If the offer and compensation are already starting at a really great rate, I've asked what does the compensation look like after the probationary period. I've seen most companies will tell you there is an increase after that

  21. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I'm not sure what kind of work you do but in not one single position that I've ever worked on in my 20 plus years recruiting experience has it been true that there is an increase in salary after the probationary period.

    In most companies, you're not eligible for a raise until your first review.

  22. Rachelle DeMunck

    In my previous position (started in 2019), I had a certain pay rate for when I was in training, with a guaranteed percentage increase once I completed training. Then I was in a probationary period (doing my actual job, but still considered to be learning -- this continued until I was meeting certain goals). Once the probationary period was completed, I had another guaranteed percentage increase.

    After that, any pay increases were tied to review periods.

  23. Anonymous

    IMO, these days with so many looking, I'd be very careful on negotiating. I get "knowing your worth", but if you have no job now, just take what is offered, work 90 days to prove you have lots to offer, and then talk. Or 180 days. For me, my job is very "me" and although I know I am worth more than I am getting, the thought of looking again sickens me.

    I think the day of negotiations is over - at least for now. They have plenty of other applicants out there willing to work for less.

    JS.

  24. Anonymous

    Are you sure that there's nothing like that coming down the pike again? How can you tell?

    I say, dont put all your eggs in one basket. Cause when that basket falls and the eggs don't hatch, you'll be devastated.

    Have eggs in different baskets and see which one hatches and go with that.

    This offer is not the only offer. Having that scarcity mentality, like "This opportunity doesn't happen again" is recipe for remorse and FOMO.

    If you want lots of money, go for the job that gives you that and that should be your basis for decision making. If you want the opportunity because of the job itself and what it will expose you to, the take it for that and make your decisions based on that.

    Dont get negotiating for the sake of negotiating advantage.

    Know why you make the decisions you make and rejection will not crush you.

    It seems to me that you made a decision to not accept an offer you wanted because someone told you to negotiate more.

    But when you saw their initial offer, did you think it was a low paying offer or not good enough?

    Why did you ask for more if you felt good about the offer? Were you not sure if it was fair offer?

  25. Anonymous

    I got cocky b/c it was SO clear to EvERYONE that I was a fantastic fit. I knew it, they knew it. Like, in every way, I was the best fit I can even imagine them finding (and prob vice versa other than a few benefits I was trying to negotiate). And yes, ppl told me that negotiatingt is normal, that I would be more well respected, esp as a woman, if I negotiated b/c it was evidence tht I was self confident, etc. It all seemed so easy in the scriped workbook and webinar. I hate that actor, now. The offer was low for market rate, but I also knew they couldn't move it. But I thought I might get a hybrid gig (b/c it's a commute) esp since the position has been hybrid for 18 months bc of COVID, and since that field often allows 'credit' (ie, for time worked in another job) I thought I might be able to get a bit more PTO since I've got 25 years in the field, etc. I mean that was what was in my head. I don't think any of it was crazy on my part, though since I have NO JOB and the jobs in all the fields I'm in PAY TERRIBLY I should have stuck to 1 or 2 points. BUt I will also NEVER know what their walk-away point was. Was it that I asked for something? Anything? too many thinmgs? I just wish I could go back. I was so looking forward to starting in 2 weeks. I already had everything planned out and was loving what was coming. And i screwed myself.

  26. Anonymous

    Please don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sorry you went through this.

    who knows maybe they will not find somebody else to fit the job. Even if they do, perhaps they made the mistake by not accepting your offer. It's a matter of time before they re-post or list this position again, cause if you were a fantastic fit, I fear they may choose a bad fit in the meantime.

    Keep your chin up.

  27. Anonymous

    Asking for leveled up pto based on how long you have been in the industry seems completely reasonable. I don’t even like the whole idea of giving some people more vacation time than others. Companies and employees don’t on average stay together that long. Everyone deserves time off. Asking to Work hybrid- that’s also reasonable. It’s something that you could possibly work into once you were there and adjusted to the job. And over shooting on salary by less than 10% not a red flag. They just say nope not in budget. Could it be they are nervous you won’t be happy setting for their offer? Reach out again and ask for feedback unless you already received it. Let them know you were really excited by this position see what they say.

  28. Anonymous

    i made it very clear that I would not be unhappy in the role and explained after the recanting of the offer that I was not one to flip and flop around. I'd stayed in my first position for 24 years, I was hardly a flight risk. The woman agreed with me. I think she agreed with me much more than HR did or would and that made it a very awkward convo for her. I kept telling her I undrxtood that and that I didn't want to put her in the middle and that I didn't want to be emotional with her b/c that was not fair to her. I tried to be really respectful of her time and her position in the whole thing. I also emailed her and thanked her for her kindess toward me. I'm not a perfect person but I try to be a good, and reasonable, person

  29. Anonymous

    Don't be so hard on yourself, you had no way of knowing the offer would be rescinded.

  30. Healthcare worker

    I hear your regret now and can empathize because as I read in a response you posted later, you are in your 50’s and feel like you may not get another chance. That fear is completely understandable and relatable. Another thing you mentioned in that response though, and I think you are discounting this right now due to the sense of loss of the rescinding of the offer, is that you would have been taking a $22,000 dollar pay cut. That seems substantial and while right now you are focused on feelings about the loss of the job, I can’t imagine that taking that pay cut without even trying to negotiate wouldn’t have nagged at you and maybe created some sense of dissatisfaction with the position as you got farther into the job.
    Interviews and the first three to six months in a position are like first dates, everyone is on their best behavior, dressing up, saying all the right things, putting the best version of themselves forward seeing only the good in the other person, but down the road that honeymoon phase wears off for both sides and little things we discounted at the beginning become bigger. Another area where job hunting is like dating is the tendency to ignore red flags and focus on the good things because we want the relationship to succeed. You said you don’t want anyone to say you dodged a bullet, and I won’t say that but I do want you to consider what type of person would act in such a way. The request you made was small, $4,000 dollars a year is $76.92 a week. It’s a little over $300.00 a month. That’s really not a big ask.

  31. Healthcare worker

    For the company to just rescind the offer and not at least say we don’t have that in the budget currently is alarming. It’s as if they aren’t necessarily hiring the person they want most for the position but rather the person who will expect the least from them in the position. Just some things for you to think about, I’m not trying to negate your sense of loss but perhaps in time you may see this event from different angles.

  32. Anonymous

    Depending on the salary, it could be a big deal. Especially if they were actually hoping to get a candidate for less and we’re offering the top of their ability because of OP’s experience level.

  33. Anonymous

    I appreciate you acknowledging my feelings. This has pushed me to the very edge and I'm not really coping. I know 22k cut is a lot, but what they were offering, 52k was the top of their range (their ranges are tied to salary bands/duties and not flexible--i've worked in that environment before and knew that, so I asked about a variety of other possible things, and I think bringing up numerous things pissed them off, though they wouldn't ever admit that). It would be great to gt 5-10% more at a new job than I had at my old job but all of my consierable research says I'll be taking a BIG cut for ANY job in this field. Example: the job that dumped me was 52K; the best I've seen for all for all fo the other jobs I'm going for (that I totally do not want at all) is 42K. Yup. So I mean, I should have shut up,t aken the 52, and been happy but hindsight is 20/20. And to the person below--yes, the range for this position was 47-52k, and they offered me 52k. I'll certainly never negotiate anything again when i'm out of work.

  34. Cindy Lacey

    Did you know that this was the salary range at the time of the interview? Because as has been said, they have a budget and would not be able to go above it.

  35. Anonymous

    No, I did not. They didn't tell me salary or benefits , but the hiring person called maybe 7 days later to explain those to me, saying Sorry thee committee should have told you, but they didn't know they had to. ---and as I've said, I really wish that, as I extended them understanding with that oversight, they could have done the same with me. It's easy to should coulda, but i'm sitting here in my underpants with no money coming in and as bertold brecht once said: First the bread, then the morals.

  36. Kathy Mason

    I'm sorry, but all the company had to say was, "No. We are unable to negotiate this salary." I say it all of the time. But women as a whole do not negotiate salaries and, as a result, are paid less.

    Did you work with a recruiter at the company? Or was the offer through HR?

  37. Andrea Macklin

    Negotiations are few and far between these days.

  38. Anonymous

    Not a recruiter; and eeryone wanted me so much, and sent me email to that effect, and so I just didn't see a recanting of the offer as possible. I am very sad they didn't offer me a 'no, but the offer is still there' so I could have just been lame duck but said yes, had a salary, had something to do all day, had a reason to get out of bed, had something to put my skills toward, had something to learn about... But no. Not this time. Meanwhile, I'm 50% of the way through my UComp, nothing has shown up though (thanks to a backlog I guess), I've been living like this since June and things are only looking worse. I never thought that this would happen to me. I got my first BA and MS and moved across the country to take a career job at 24, and now I'm looking into overnight staffing at a hotel or something. I'm too embarrassed to even tell anytone what's going on

  39. Anonymous

    Remember that you “think” it’s your dream job, but you don’t know that it would be. Chances are that a place that wouldn’t even give the courtesy of a “no, we can’t do that, sorry” is an indication that the work environment might not be a good one.

  40. Anonymous

    I do understate what you're saying, but i know the environment well, and know the person who last had the job. I can tell you that it ticked 18 of my 20 boxes and I am regretting what happened, and my part in it, more than I can say. I think I raised too many things in the talk with the hiring manager; I should have stuck to maybe 2, but I sensed they wouldn't give on much at all so I wanted options. That was a mistake. But I only know that now. I will grieve for this position for a very long time.. It was right for me and I was right for it. The stuff I'm seeing now, and duly applying for, leaves me cold and bored before even doing the work. Even the thought of interviewing for them leaves me cold. It's horrible.

  41. Anonymous

    If you have a good relationship with the former employer or other people there is it possible to talk to the HR manager and explain?

  42. Anonymous

    Talk with the manager and HR again. Sincerely admit what you've shared here. All they can do is say no..but I think it's worth a try, and you would be a good employee for them. give it a shot.

  43. Julie Andrews

    I like your idea. Worst thing can happen is another no-and I agree what you’ve shared here is a real learned lesson. Sometimes that resonates. Fine line between that and creepy, but you already know that. . Go for it!

  44. Lisa

    You had 20 boxes to tick off?

  45. Anonymous

    Sure. well i mean that's a guess, but sitting here with no job gives one time to think. I would like all kinds of things: a short commute. A laptop I could take around. Nice colleagues. Flex schedule. Unique (in the sense that there was 1 of us, not 12) job title. Access to a good library to finish my degree. A chance to volunteer in house. good PTO. Office instead of a cubicle for once. I certainly didn't expect any job to tick all of them or even 18, but this did. To give you some pushback to your comment, it came across harsh. Is that how you mean it?

  46. rgstaffing@bellsouth.net

    I personally would need to know what city this job is in, what is the job, what was the offer and what did you go back in for. Even thought there were 20 boxes, they still made an offer.

  47. Anonymous

    East coast US, univ job in publishing, univ benefits which are overall good, but these were surprisingly on the low end. I asked about flexibility for a number of things just to see what was possible. And I used that lanuage: is this possible? If not this, then perhaps that, is that possible? I didn't ask for 20 things, perhaps that's causing some confusion. I made a list for myself a few weeks ago about 'things i'd really like in my next job' and it had a lot on it. I'm gettin pushback on that, but surely any person who is 51 and has a lot of skills and education should be encouraged to have a list of things she'd like right?

  48. Christine Talowski

    Breath, trust your instincts and do not listen to the chatter telling you what you need to expect. Negotiation is a part of the new job search, but trust your instinct.

  49. Anonymous

    agree 100% and thanks for sharing your raw emotions on this! I, too, keeping hearing about the "wonderful " job market but I can tell you that in my profession, pay has actually decreased! I have a professional degree and work in healthcare. Also, when I finished grad school some years ago, everyone kept telling me to "negotiate" on salary but I found that the reality was/is that the salaries are pretty much fixed (unless you are a top floor executive; about 1% of the population)--and I would make a fool of myself by trying to negotiate for some higher/magical salary that just wasn't going to happen. You are spot on, but too many people are afraid to admit this! So thanks! I'm sorry this turned into a really crummy experience but take the good from it and move on. And honestly....if you really want that job, sent a sincere message to HR or the manager and tell them that you shot yourself in the foot and (with all humility) would be honored to work for them, if they would give you a second chance. Who knows what will happen? To me, very worth a try! Good luck, friend.

  50. Anonymous

    wow, that's awful. I don't push too hard on the negotiations because I know this from the other side. The recruiter can generally go only so far. My company will not exceed the maximum of the pay range and the hiring manager has a budget they must adhere to. There really isn't as much room to negotiate as people think. You can negotiate PTO time somewhat or maybe a small sign on bonus but that's about it.

  51. Danielle

    A couple of follow up questions. When the offer was rescinded, were you told it was because of your salary requirement? Was the salary you asked for fair for that position?

    It’s easy to look back and think “coulda, woulda, shoulda”. Try not to blame yourself. I think rescinding and offer just because of the salary requirement says a lot about the company. To be so egotistical on their part is ridiculous. In this market, companies need to understand they don’t have the upper hand anymore. Salary’s should be re-evaluated to get the right people.

    I’m sorry you’re feeling so hurt. Please do something to cheer yourself up. I know this is hard but you’ll get through this!

  52. Karen Burke

    This is definitely frustrating. It's unfortunate that they just ended discussions right at your counter offer. As much as you are disappointed with the outcome of this, it's important to stand up for yourself, and what you believe you are worth. I understand their position and having limits, but I also think they could have worked out some other way to balance out the compensation you were seeking in some other way.

  53. Anonymous

    When negotiating a salary, you definitely have to do your research. If you found that your ask was within the average pay for the position in your area, then the company likely doesn't care about retention or its employees. If you went over and above the average, they may have been insulted and even felt you were overqualified for the role, which would have led to its own issues. Generally staying within 10-20% increase from your last role, assuming it's a step up, is reasonable.

    It's ridiculous that salary ranges aren't required for job listings. I would recommend asking how much a role is budgeted for in the initial interview in the future. That way, you can set your expectations, ask if there's room for negotiation or bow out before you waste everyone's time. Waiting until the offer to find out pay just doesn't make sense. I'm sorry you're dealing with this, try to take it as a learning experience. Best of luck on the hunt!

  54. BeaBoss645203

    I can understand your disgust about what happened. The job market has changed indeed because of covid . I have always hated the "what salary are you looking for question:. I feel like it kind of sets you up. I usually ask them what they are offering and see how they want to take it from there. I have also seen all of these "helpful must do negotation must do tips " and it is important to see through them and just imagine what the outcome can be. I even used some of he questions in interviews and people looked at me like I had 2 heads. I know you are mad at yourself and disgusted, but consider this an important lesson. Hopefully if not too much time as passed, reach out perhaos via email and express your interest still and why you would be a good fit and ask them if they could make you an offer if the position is not already filled. Best wishes

  55. Anonymous

    Never feel like you can’t negotiate. My position now I asked for more, they couldn’t do it. But kept my original offer and we worked around a few other things. That’s how you do it. It’s surreal that they’d just be like “nah, forget it.”

    But in that vein, knowing your salary requirement they may have reconsidered your skill set in that “damn, shes overqualified for this position!

    You are feeling downtrodden because of the layoff and this. You did nothing wrong! It’s like dating!! You build something up in your head of what it *could* be and get excited about it. Keep looking, keep applying - you may surprise yourself.

  56. Rosalyn

    One thing I am truly known for is keeping it 100%. I can totally relate to your hurt and pain. I was laid off in 2017 from a permanent job of 10 years. Then in 2019 I got laid off again due to COVID . Now what I’m about to say may ruffle some feathers, but here goes. I’m sick and tired of interviewing with people that are all asking the same questions that they are reading from websites. Many are questions that are not applicable to your character, professionalism, or ethics. People no longer think for themselves, they want to do what everyone else is doing. Heaven forbid if you have common sense, intelligence, and resilience. I don’t want any rehearsed behavior questions I want to have a conversation and be paid for my hard work.

    So….I sold my house in California moved to San Antonio and purchased a home no more mortgage and using the opportunity to work temporary. No more stress about how I’m going to lay rent. Signed up with an employment agency and started working on an assignment that was supposed to last 30 days. Five months later still there. Start thinking for yourself and don’t let society put you “in that box” because we don’t all fit!

  57. Stella

    I like your style. You pivoted and laid out the blueprint for you and your future, took charge and did what was necessary to make a move. You are a survivor.

  58. Dagney Taggart

    All. of. This.

  59. Anonymous

    Yeah but now you have to live in Texas ?

  60. Anonymous

    I was let go in the middle of the lockdown. After six months, I went with a freelance site. Several "advisors" said that gig work was caving. I hated dealing with self-employment taxes and COBRA, but I get a paycheck and a skills upgrade. I ignored the snobby remarks that "you're just a freelancer." So, hang in there. It is tough out there. Ignore the rosy news about unfilled jobs so job seekers are in charge. Carry on. I wish you well.

  61. Anonymous

    Do you know that your salary request was the reason for the offer being rescinded? Maybe you can call HR or the hiring manager to ask for feedback on why you didn't get the position when things were looking positive.

  62. Anonymous

    the woman i was speaking with said that my requests made them rethink whether i was a good fit. that it seemed that i really wanted something else. I never said anything like that at all and instead said the opposite multiple times. The woman I spoke with couldn't outright tell me, but I think she felt terrible for me and intimated that this had never happened in all the years she'd been there. She encouraged me to always ask for what I want and that this shouldn't teach me to settle (my word not hers) but I said: Well, that all sounds great, but we both know that in this case, I would've been happy setting a starting date with you right now and been super excited to start work but I ruined that by negotiating. she tried saying that wasn't rue but I think that was comapny line. I'm not going to get any more feedback either. I did email everyone a follow up with an 'i'm sorry' and asked if there was anything I could do to get the offer back on track No answer. The woman who last had the job doesn't know what happened either. she said that I would hae been great at it and she's having trouble wrapping her head around what happened. I just hope I am not too old to make a career for myself yet. I see jobs I'd like and that I know I could do, but b/c I don't have the background at all and that might not be a prob if there was 1 applicant, but we all know there are many and why wouldn't someone pick a person with documented exprince in an area over a longshot who might work, even work well. In that sense, so many of us are in situations like this and I feel for all of us. Sometimes finding a good job is like 'getting daddy to love me' and it feels creepy and gross and way too hard. Ultimately I will never know what it was, but I DO know there was a real job there, I was the preferred candidate, and the job has gone to candidate number 2

  63. Dagney Taggart

    You sound very intelligent and I bet you have scads of experience. Ever thought about starting your own niche-y company?

  64. Anonymous

    that's kind of you, thank you. too much pressure in being a start up, and I don't think I have what it takes, either, to be honest. I see myself as being the 'i have a boss' type vs. being the i am my own boss type. Other than designing and making jewelry which I do sell, but that's a just a minor hobby. I would not want to be my own boss! :)

  65. Anonymous

    I was laid off earlier in the year and found my dream job before the last day. The only hitch was the salary came in lower than I was already making. So I expressed my excitement for the role and asked if there was any room for negotiation bc I was taking a cut. They came up on all fronts, salary bonus and stock. It was still under salary but I feel like it was made up for in bonus and benefits etc. If you really want the job, make sure they know you want to say yes.

  66. Anonymous

    Unless you were completely out of the ballpark any reputable company would at least come back with a counter offer. There is always room for some negotiations, even if it is minimal, or they can trade pay for other perks, like additional vacation. It is their job to get you for as little as possible and they know that the candidate's counteroffer maybe too high, but they can always, always offer more than their first offer.

    I was lowballed several times where I knew for sure what comparable jobs were paying or when I had other real offers, but not once did anyone say nothing and just rescinded and disappeared.

    Honestly it sounds as if there were other things going on. Based on your description, assuming your demand was within the range and assuming that your coach and mentor are somewhat familiar with the job market, my gut feeling is that they offered this job to multiple people and went with whoever accepted first. I obviously may be totally wrong but their behavior does sound unusual, even in these times.

    Don't beat yourself up over this. There are several websites (e.g. glassdoor) that list what people really earn, and you can filter by company, city and job title, to give you some realistic expectations.

    Good luck with your job search!

  67. Healthcare worker

    Or went with whoever would accept the lowest offer.

  68. Anonymous

    It may seem like that, but no. I was top candidate and I think they were shocked that I asked for more. Oh well.... someone here suggested I wait for a job offer that 'meets all of my [requirements]'-it's a nice thought but who does that work for, unless that person is already gainfully employed and just looking to look? I'm not that person and I don't know anyone who is!

  69. Anonymous

    I now saw your other post that you asked for $4k more, that is not outrageous. The only other reasonable excuse is that it may be some kind of public service or union type job, where they have fixed pay scales, but even then they could have said "no, take it or leave it". But you would have known that as part of your research.
    Again, I suspect they asked several candidates and took whoever was 'good enough' and accepted the cheaper offer. I don't think the pay is really the issue.
    And another thought: sometimes companies don't even want the best candidate, but someone who meets the minimum requirements and who they can 'mold' to their expectations - and who costs less.
    If you think I am wrong just think how often old experienced (and expensive) workers are laid off only to be replaced by cheap young ones. We know how this ends, but short-term it looks good on paper. CompUSA anyone???

  70. Angelique Hamilton

    It is quite rare for an offer to be rescinded due to a counter offer. The company will counter back with the original offer. Applicants are encouraged to counter the original offer. Typically, the first offer comes at the beginning of the range. It's important to find a company where you not only feel welcomed, but also recognized for your contributions and worth. In the short term, you would have been ok with the role. However, you will have become dissatisfied with your role. It's time to do some self-discovery and look for a job that meets all of your requirements for your career goals. I understand how much pain this caused. Nothing is certain. Better things are always on the way. Simply trust. Have faith in yourself. It will happen.

  71. JoAnn

    Why not reach out and let them know how much this job ticked off all your boxes and felt that this was an exceptional fit for their company. You have nothing to lose by reaching out (except being ghosted, which is also happening a lot, lately) Best of Luck....as easy as FB warriors think it is to "just get a job" it is pretty tough out there finding positions that are a good fit, with decent pay and benefits.

  72. rgstaffing@bellsouth.net

    I am very impressed that you see what you did to de-rail the offer. I am also impressed that you are not laying blame, talking about lawyers, carrying on about the company etc. etc. Instead, you are just a candidate who listened to bad advice. The good news is that you are able to get an offer and your post shows me that you are the type of candidate that I would work with.
    Take this lesson and go forward. Don't accept an offer that is not in your money range, Instead, take what you like and get in there. I see that you have a level of maturity and you will get hired. You may want to write a sincere note to the powers that be there and express your regret. You never know when a door may open. Don't beat yourself up. If you had a recruiter, this probably wouldn't have happened :)

  73. Anonymous

    If you asked for a reasonable amount over their suggestion there's really nothing wrong. Did you ask for 10%? So if they offered you, idk, $90,000, you asked for $99,000? That's really not much money to a corporation, not at all.

    Also, if any part of your new job would be related to negotiating, it's the first opportunity you have to show what you can do.

    I think you weren't given the "real reason" for your rescinded offer. I don't think it has squat to do with your counter offer, unless you went REALLY off the rails. Maybe it was a job making $25k a year and you asked for $40k, which is a big difference %age wise....

    Most jobs suck anyway, they just suck differently. You just don't know how until you get in there.

  74. Anonymous

    i asked for somewhat small things but for too many. 4k over offer (hoping to get 2 but knowing i prob wouldn't), if not that, did they do signing bonuses? Or year end bonuses (small? 1k?). What about hybrid since I know that the position was hybrid for the last covid year (and with my depression, not having a daily commute would have helped and the job was basically remote already as it was an office of 1 and the colleagues were not in the same area but a round the country). I asked if they could offer more PTO. I asked if the retirement timeline for the employer putting money into the plan could be moved up (you had to wait a year). But i repeated i was excited, could't wait to start and that these were questions about what was possible and to let me know what HR said and that nothing should hold us back if the woman I spoke with got pushback from HR. In retprospect it was wayyyy too many things but I also knew that they prob couldn't do much so I thought giving more ideas was the best approach. I can sense many of you rolling your eyes at me for asking for too many things. Don't worry, i agree with you. but i still have to ay i can't believe the offer was just boom, off the table.

  75. Mary Lee Gannon, ACC, CAE

    I am so sorry this happened. I can only imagine how frustrated you are and the regret you carry. A few thoughts:

    1. Contact the person who made the offer and tell them how much you were looking forward to working there. Show humility - tell them that you regret if you did anything that derailed their interest in hiring you because you are fully committed and excited to work there.

    2. Make no assumptions. You have no idea what could have prompted the decision to rescind. They may have decided to leave the position vacant or pull it entirely. They may have had a second choice internal candidate that they knew well. And make no assumptions about your future. Take what you've learned here and apply it moving forward.

    3. Write down everything that went well throughout your interview process so that you may remember to develop and repeat it as you continue this process. What did they like most about you? What is your signature strength? What specific value do you bring to an organization?

    Again, this is a setback that hurts. Be gentle with yourself. (Drink tea, enjoy a great cup of coffee, meditate, pray, take a mindful walk, call a friend, go to a park or place you love.) Pain is debilitating. Allow yourself time and space to process the disappointment. There will be a clearing. And you will walk though it with life experience that will lay the path for sound decision making.

    You are amazing! And this will pass.

  76. Anonymous

    If you take the above advice (item #1) you will look desperate

  77. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    So?

  78. Anonymous

    "desperate? by whose standards? that's a matter of opinion. If I had a humble, honest individual approach me again, my inner voice would say: "give this person a chance". Desperate is a very harsh assessment, not describing the original poster but someone else's subjective assessment of another human being.

  79. Anonymous

    I already did no. 1 and was willing to. I told the woman on the phone I'd beg if I had to. I don't really care about that kind of thing. If I can fix a mistake I've made, I'll do it. But she wouldn't put me through to HR, which I do somewhat understand, but it also really put me at a disadvantage that I was NOT speaking directly to HR, and instead going through someone in the middle (b/c of the reporting lines of the position). I it means a job I'd really like that ticks most of my boxes, and I had a chance to salvage it, I would have begged. I don't care what that makes me look like, to be frank. 20 min of begging looks better than me sitting alone, no job, no money coming in, no job offers, etc

  80. Anonymous

    Unless your original negotiation was out of whack (eg. double the salary offered + double PTO) or you kept going back multiple times on the same thing (eg. said you would take x salary and after they said yes you then came back and said you wanted 15% more on top of that), having an offer rescinded during negotiations is super rare and is a red flag for that employer/hiring manager. What's more common is for the company to just double down on their original offer and say there's nothing more they can do. So that job may have seemed perfect, but maybe it really was a bait-and-switch.

  81. Tara Cornier

    You may feel like you did something wrong in asking for your goal, but honestly they were more wrong for just yanking the job. That's not the most professional approach. I would have reached out to you and explained that we just aren't able to do what your asking and would have tried to sell you on my company. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

  82. Anonymous

    You took “expert” advice and it did not end the way you wanted. It sucks! You did nothing wrong and yet you got screwed. I have never negotiated an offer because of the nature of the field I am in, but I know people who have (even a recent college graduate in graphic design) and it worked, so the advice it not bad. Stop beating yourself up. You did what you thought was right. Something else will come up, it may not check every box but it may lead to the job that does! That happened to me! I know it’s hard not to dwell on this but go through the grieving process (I know that sounds silly, but this is something to be sad about) then start over and have an open mind, you never know when you might find in the job market. There are a lot of positions no longer in need due to the new normal but there are a lot of interesting ones being created.

  83. Sarah Borders

    First off, I don’t know whether you’re being hyperbolic or really feeling like you can’t live with yourself, but I would feel heartbroken if it’s the latter and I didn’t share this resource: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

    I don’t know how you feel exactly, but I have had an experience of rejection that ultimately turned out for the best, and I’d like to share it.

    I applied for a remote position with a tech company that was based outside my state, and had a frank conversation with the recruiter who confirmed my location and went over the pay they had budgeted for the position. I was told upfront that this position *could* be remote, if the best candidate was not able or willing to relocate. I was not willing to relocate for personal family reasons, and I told her this so we knew where we stood going forward.

    Now about the pay: I had done extensive research to know what I’m worth. From that number, at first, I had decided to aim $10k lower in my range and make my researched number the top, because I couldn’t believe anyone would pay me what I was worth. For this position, their “top” was my “bottom”, and the recruiter was ecstatic to find that I would be willing to settle (my words, not hers—she couldn’t know I would be settling for less than I was worth).

    I moved on to the next step: an interview with the hiring manager, who was absolutely delightful. I feel like we had the best conversation, and I really felt like I would fit in well at the company. My personal values were in complete alignment with their company values, and although there would be a bit of a learning curve to adopt their procedures, the work was *very* similar to my experience.

    The next day, I got an email from the recruiter who indicated that I would not be moving forward. After requesting some feedback, I discovered that they had a number of qualified candidates that were either located in the same city or willing to relocate for the position.

    Let me be honest: I understood where they were coming from completely, but I was still devastated. As my mind performed a complete post mortem of the experience, I recalled something that happened in between scheduling the call with the hiring manager and actually talking to her.

    I had a panic attack because I could see my path forward in this position so clearly. It was exciting, but also scary. And the one truth that rang in my ears was that, if they offered me the position at the top of their budgeted range (which again, was my stated bottom), I would feel obligated to accept the offer. In my heart of hearts, I knew that wasn’t right. I knew this wasn’t the opportunity for me, and my body was doing its best to tell me that.

    Less than a month later, I found myself in a similar situation between recruitment and meeting the hiring manager who would later become my boss. This time, I had no sense of what they would offer, but there was no panic attack at the uncertainty—no sense of being trapped if they offered me less than I was worth. I was in a much better mental space by that time, and no longer willing to settle. In the end, they offered me slightly more than I was worth, and I accepted it.

    My only rule for negotiation is this: Know your worth, and be firm. If you really want a position, but they’re offering you less than you’re worth, negotiate, but be prepared to walk away. If it doesn’t work out, it just wasn’t the right opportunity.

    Believe me, your opportunity is out there. Please be kind to yourself. I wish you all the best luck.

  84. Anonymous

    not hyperbolic, no. I want out. I mean I did before this too, so that's not great news, and why the timing is so shitty. But trust me, I'm doing everything I can think of to do. Therapy, new drugs, new treatments. I keep doing it b/c i would be devastating my elderly parents if I didn't. I appreciate your experience but I'm not in a position to walk away from anything. I'm good, in that I have plenty of savings, but I also can't run though my savings and then be OK, if that makes sense. Again, it is so kind how you are all rallying around. It means so much. I can only hope that I am as understanding of others when they need it. You've taught me a lot.

  85. Sarah Borders

    I see you, Anonymous, and for what it’s worth, I’ll keep you in my prayers.

  86. Kristy Busija

    Find out why they rescinded the offer.

    As for 'getting over this", it's more about getting through it and what's next. Not going to sugar coat it - it's not an easy situation to be in and it's painful to go through. To answer your question of how you are going to fill your time - moving forward. Making a plan. Having been there before myself and having walked with others in this situation, I offer up my support to you. Connect with me if you want to work this through. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristybusija/

  87. Cassandra Johnson

    Rescinding so quickly and early in the process is a red flag to me. It seems like they might not have really had the job on the table when offered to you. It seems like maybe they were simply trying to get a feel for what the external market had to offer in candidates.

    The lowball salary seems to underline that they may not have really had a feel for what was out there and that maybe this position had been filled for a long time prior by someone and now they had to bring the role up to speed with the times.

    I think the advice to connect back with them and share how much you appreciate their time and how beneficial any feedback would be is great and could position you for when they are really hiring for that job and have the proper market analysis to offer proper market value to you.

    It's all speculation on my part except for this. Your job is out there and we speak it into existence where it may find you.

  88. Anonymous

    really impressive univs lowball you terribly. i knew this going in. i've worked at one before for many years. the work was piling up and they wanted someone to start quickly (though reasonably, not tomorrow). i knew all of this but i still played like i was the great negotiator. What a lesson to learn. I did email the next day (or that night) and asked if there was anything I could do, even apologized if my asking for more made people question whether I was a 'good fit' (which is how they explained away rescinding it) and told them I didn't feel they had to respond to me personally as I knew this was a very awkward situation all the way around. I never heard anything back. I was of course hoping that my kind message, showing flexibility, and an apology of sorts, and asking to be 'extended a bit of grace' would make the offer come back, but I know HR well enough to know that once they decide, they decide. What I know I DoN"T want is 'a job.' Maybe if I had a vibrant life, and it wasn't covid, and I had kids and/or a spouse, then a job would work. I have none of that. I want to sink my teeth into a career position. But i will look and apply for everything, hope I get money coming in, and that being 51 won't stand in the way of getting a career job eventually. I will just keep plugging away and hope that someone else sees my value and wants me. You have all been so kind. I know I've talked A LOT. I'm a talker.

  89. Cassandra Johnson

    Apologies for using the word "job" I use it interchangeably with the word "career". I know your next position in your career field of choice is out there waiting for you. Best wishes.

  90. Anonymous

    i was absolutely not responding to you and your use of 'job'--sorry. My comment on that was mine alone, i didn't even notice you'd used that word. Just want to be clear!

  91. Ehryn Kramer

    I never knew how to negotiate. I lost an opportunity for asking too much and not closing. Eh. What good is a job if you can't even pay rent with it. ? So what did I actually lose

  92. Anonymous

    Ugh, that's a tough spot to be in. But you sound tougher! You will come out of this just fine - but that's SO hard to see while you're in the weeds. If you have any people who can remind you that you're okay, pull them in close. Hearing it will help even if you can't believe it yet.

    I'd like to suggest a survival approach while you keep looking (or take a break to gain perspective). I was in a similar spot last year. The advice I got was hard to hear but it worked out really well.

    Take care of the necessities - food, shelter, and your health. You can probably get unemployment benefits; I *think* you qualify because you haven't found employment in your field. Apply for medicaid immediately. Don't go without heath insurance for a single day - a dumb accident could put you in the hospital and cause major financial wreckage that lasts for years. You've paid into the system and earned your safety net, now is the time to use it. Go online and apply; you may need to communicate with a case worker to go deeper than last year's tax return, but if you have zero income, you should qualify for immediate coverage. If you're currently paying for health insurance, definitely try to remove that expense. If somehow you don't qualify for medicaid (unlikely) then downsize your current plan as much as possible. See healthcare.gov for (ideally) a high-deductible policy. Good news - regular exams and tests are 100% covered. Annuals, mammos, colons, blood panels... zero co-pay, by law. Use the Goodrx app for deep discounts on medications.

    Please get started asap with a therapist who specializes in trauma. You are experiencing a major trauma and you are having a totally normal response. Your brain has literally, physically changed. Good news - therapy literally returns the physical brain to normal. I called it magic, my therapist said nope, it's science. I promise you will feel better, stronger, and ready for a good experience in the next job.

    Last thing: consider withdrawing funds from a retirement account to cover basic expenses. There is currently zero penalty for this (thanks, covid). You will have to pay income taxes on a 401k withdrawal, but nothing more. Sure, this is not ideal, but you're in survival mode. Keeping a roof over your head and the lights on is a great stress-reducer. This income will need to be reported to medicaid; if you that tips you into disqualification, withdraw enough to cover a new policy. You will be allowed to get immediate coverage outside of the annual open period.

    Good luck! Tons of people are in the same boat, which means there's A LOT of help out there. You'll find a lot of support once you get started.

  93. Anonymous

    "consider withdrawing funds from a retirement account to cover basic expenses"

    Terrible advice. Unless you are literally on the verge of homelessness, your retirement funds should be off limits.

  94. lisafly

    Look at the whole context. No where was it recommended as a good option. You kissed the point entirely.

  95. lisafly

    *missed.

  96. Anonymous

    I didn't miss the point. You just give poor advice.

  97. Marta Hoyt

    Your advise is spot on and full of Moxi! Very little business transactions are being done today they way they were before March 2020. Thank you for sharing and please do keep your head up.

  98. Jeannette Grand

    I'm so sorry to hear this. Had the same thing happen to me a number of years ago, which I thought was really bizarre, as most experienced recruiters/HR depts expect negotiation. Turns out, that company wouldn't have been a good fit for me after all, but that was just my experience.

    Keep your head up. Things/people are a bit flaky right now, and if you're the praying type, pray for the right thing to come along. Also, try to do one thing a day for self-care (could be a walk, meditation, calling a friend, taking a bubble bath, whatever) and one thing for career growth (there are so many courses online these days) every day. Give yourself the grace you'd extend to others. And, please know that you WILL get through this.

  99. Anonymous

    i, too, thought negotiating was normal. One of the things is that I was talking with the hiring mgt but she had no say, she had to go to HR for everything. I was really positive and upbeat with her abut I can't know how she passed things along to someone else. I hear from the woman last in the position they offered me that this woman with whom i spoke is great and she seemed it, but I also think I might have gotten a 'tone' over the phone from HR that would have guided what I was saying but that I didn't have that chance b/c of how the chain of command was set up. I remember saying twice: If you get pushback from HR please don't let that change the offer, we can work something out for sure. BUt did she pass that on? I don't know. I hate not knowing. But I also know i have to move on. I just hope this doesn't happen to anyone else. Why is it still a crime for some women to negotiate?

  100. Vicki Stocking

    You're getting lots of good counsel for this group, so I'll just add this: I'm so very sorry this happened to you. :(

  101. Anonymous

    thanks very much. I'm still horrified at the whole thing. Mad at myself, disappointed in myself, disappointed that the employer, a big non-profit (education) couldn't see past its own nose to at least come back with: final offer, yes or no? I know for a fact that my skill set would hae fit to a T plus offered something other candidates couldnt so it's really crappy for all of us (but mostly me). I would have said yes and thought: well at least I tried. What's awful is that i have no job, i have parents many states away who are elderly so I'm trying to keep a bit of this grief for them. They suffer so accutely for me. I have no partner, I have no kids. I have no other family. I was never able to make that work for me and so my career and my education were what i DID have. I got knocked out of my field (which I got an MS in) by a jerk boss who wanted to downize w/o saying he wanted to downize, and I can't get back into that field, but the field I'm trying to get into pays horribly and wants more experience that I have. So if I CAN get a gig, it'll be low on the totem pole and for 30k less that I was making. I tell myself that's ok b/c I don't have kids to put through college, but I'm lonely, and I'm older, and while I do have friends, I'm just pulling inwards right now. Off of social media (a good thing) other than FGB! All in all, this could not have happened at a worse time. I have a bunch of degrees I love, all in social sciences, I'm good with people and on teams, and I'm hoping (ugh) to get a 3-month job proofreading drug interaction blurbs for a pharma databse sitting alone in my house for 40k. And that's if I'm lucky. I have no idea where I went so wrong, how this all went off the rails so badly. In a different world, I know I desserve better b/c I have skills, but I'm not in that world. ANd as for unemployment, I applied in June, not a dime yet (backed up?) with no idea when it'll be coming, and my Cobra is $620/month. I'm lucky to have it though. I'm going to try to do some volunteering b/c it'll help my mind but the guy in charge hasn't gotten back to me after 4 phone calls and 3 email messages. n Wow. This message is very dark and complain-y. Even I can see that. I'm working on some therapy if I can get it.

  102. Anonymous

    TBH, I WISH I could find a work at home position for 40K. That would be my dream. This is just basically to let you know that your worst might be someone else's best. Peace.

  103. Anonymous

    i think that's fair and gives me some perspective. at my age and with my education which is, frankly, massive, i woudld like more (both salary and opprotunity) but I am certainly also willing to take less than what I want and to keep looking. Thank fyou for that reminder

  104. Shannon Wood

    Great advice. The most positive thing here is that you took something negative and learned a lesson from it. I’m sure you, and everyone who reads this, can benefit from this information. Thank you.

  105. Kristen Scanlon

    I get it. I’ve been unemployed and searching now for 3 months. It isn’t the job market we’ve been told about. Even my unemployment office told me that in my meeting with them. It’s horrible. So that negotiating higher thing is not actually the best advice right now, unless it comes from someone who was also unemployed and it worked for them in the same business or industry. Contrary to belief, companies are not paying that much higher.

  106. Chrishogg

    Hi Anonymous ---

    No advice, but a couple of comments:

    Appreciate your willingness to interact with the various comments. Shows, at least to me, that you have a fair amount of self-awareness and emotional strength.

    About what to do next. A woman goes to her doctor and says, "Doc, every time I lift up my arm like this (lifting up her arm) ... ouch ... it hurts like crazy." To which the doctor replies, "So, don't lift your arm up like that."

    Two passages in the Bible that have given me much comfort when faced with situations similar to yours: Psalm 23:1-6 and Proverbs 3:5-6.

    Thanks for putting this up. You've given me, and am sure a lot of folks, something meaningful to think about.

  107. Nina Kittlitz

    It wasn’t meant to be. They could have just declined your counter offer and let you decide. No need to rescind. It’s not personal. Some managers take it personally when people negotiate their offer. It’s just what people do.

  108. Renee Radcliff Sinclair

    I think your advice is right on. You have to look at many factors -- the market, the industry, what's customary for the role in your community, etc. Hard lesson, but you've got this one under your belt now. The right thing is out there for you and I hope you find it very soon.

  109. Alia

    That's the problem with "women don't negotiate enough" advice for pay disparity. The fact is that even if you ask for what would be fair, it's a negative for women.

  110. GirlBossanova934974

    This is a simple lesson in negotiation. Sometimes when you push your "ask" too high, the other side walks. In the job market, that means they walk to the "runner-up" candidate right away. The trick or experience factor is taking a very candid inventory of YOUR skillsets, their needs, your compensation request COMPARED TO THE COMPETITION. If you have 10 years of experience or higher in a very tough field where there are few candidates, you have the edge. If you are 1-5 years in, that is usually not the case. Employers can run to the "runner-up". It is all about reading the cards.....

  111. Peg Bittner

    Personally, I am not that confident with job coaches, advisors and mentors. They are good for general topics on finding a job, but i strongly believe only I know and can tell when I find the position that is good for me. The money does play a part but not the main part. You could be making the most you ever made and be working at the worst place on earth, or you could be work at a firm that pays just enough to cover your bills and just a little bit of spending for thrills and it is the happiest you ever been at a company. The mentors or coaches are going steer you either toward the money or away from both. That is not their responsibility. They are to point out the pros and cons for you and your talents. It is your future, your life, you make the decision. Don't allow some person where you are just a name on their list to help tell where you should work,

  112. Anonymous

    I agree 100%. If the job speaks to you take it. I was laid off last year after being with the same company for years. The pay was above average for the field but the working conditions were horrible. I hadn’t been happy there for some time. I landed a position after 6 months of search. The pay is leas than I’ve ever had but the people and working conditions make it so worth while. I was scared to take a leap on lower pay but it is so worth it. It pays the bills plus a little and I have peace of mind that I am valued and appreciated for the work I do and the care I show for our customers and the company. Hang in there!

  113. Anonymous

    Well said. At the end of the day, it's YOUR life, not someone else's.

  114. Anonymous

    The money isn't the issue here. It's the fact that this company flat out refused to participate in a normal and perfectly acceptable business practice.

    I can't imagine that any company that rejects candidates for advocating for themselves would actually be a good place to work.

    OP, I know you don't want to hear that you dodged a bullet so I won't tell you that. But please don't let this experience deter you from negotiating your salary in the future; the vast, vast majority of employers will not reject you for countering their offer - in fact, they expect it.

  115. IntentionGirl300650

    Plus the longer a mentor or coach is out of the job market, the more out of touch they’ll be.

  116. Karen Gongaware

    Why can't you live with your choice? You asked for X amount of Dollars and they chose to not even negotiate! What a croc! You ask, they counter offer as you state, "this is negotiable." Really, who would want to work in a company that is that rigid? Not me. And jobs are jobs. One door closes and another opens. We work to live, not live to work! Take a hard look at your skills and interests. Take online certificate classes, pick yourself up (you dared to fail, go you!), and do it again. A job will open up.

  117. Anonymous

    I do a lot of hiring and have to do the negations for offers on my team. The idea that someone would take away an offer for asking too much just blows my mind. I've had people ask for too much and I tell them as much, I let them know what our pay range is and if they are asking for more then I can give or more then I'm comfortable giving I let them know.

    And the ones that get paid more than what I offer are the ones that ask for it. I know you said you don't want to hear that you dodged a bullet, but if this is their process for negations, I'd bet they are gonna have a bunch of other terrible processes too.

  118. Cynthia Schempp

    I totally agree! I have done plenty of negotiations with candidates and handle them the same way. It’s ridiculous for them to have pulled the offer with no communication! Negotiation is a big part of the process.

  119. Kate

    You definitely have to rely on yourself in the end. I'm searching too and I already know my drop dead low number so if I really want the job and it's not below it, I accept.

    I once saw a career coach who encouraged me to "follow my bliss" and quit my job to be an artist in the paper arts. Any equation that involves quitting should include how you'll pay your bills! Worst advice I ever got and I didn't listen to the warning voice in my head because I deferred my power to someone else.

    It's too bad you can't contact them to say you made a mistake. I wish you the best.

  120. Anonymous

    I did email everyone involved afterwards, apologized, asked if there was any way to get thigs back on track, that I truly felt I was right for the job and that they, too, would think I was right once I started, etc etc. Didn't hear back. And something I want to add: for those saying 'it wasn't really a job' or 'they clearly don't expect/want good people'--WRONG. It's high-level academia. They always pay people terribly b/c they know there's cache in being at a good institution. I have never been able to pay my grocery bill with that cache...it may surprise those of you NOT in academia to hear it, but the pay stinks and yes, thy do expect to attract good people who hang around (b/c they do!)

  121. Anonymous

    I was just laid off myself from a job in higher ed after working 20 years there. I was in such a niche job there is nothing else like it. Because of Covid a lot of the people who had been there a long time were laid off. I'm realizing now that I am looking at other industries just how little they pay in comparison. But they expect you to work nights and weekends as well as during the work day and I wasn't even faculty! Here is hoping we both find what we are looking for. For me it is not academia.

  122. Kate

    Oh, that's too bad. From my experience, all hiring mgrs are not created equal. I'm officially validating your feelings about this, not that you need it from me or anyone. Take a little time to grieve and then jump right back into your search. You will know better next time. Best wishes.

  123. Audrey Kirsch

    It's the only offer you've had so far. Keep the faith that the next one will turn out to be the one you will want just as much and adjust your game plan.

  124. Anonymous

    I'm a recruiter in healthcare and have hiring managers that get offended when people attempt to negotiate and have moved on to other candidates. I can imagine academia is similar.
    You shouldn't be scared of asking for what you are worth. A reasonable person would push back and let you know that it is not in their budget and give you an opportunity to make the choice to walk away.
    It is still raw now but rejection is protection sometimes. Although the job sounded perfect, the culture and leadership may have left something to be desired. I wish you the best in your search and hope you update everyone once you land that great position!

  125. Anonymous

    It's such BS!

  126. Anonymous

    You can’t negotiable in Academia. Whoever have you that advice did not know what he/she/they were talking about.
    Follow your own gut and don’t rely on others for common sense advice.

  127. Rachel Raquel

    I can understand how devastating this must feel.

    Imagine a world where every job was required to put the salary or the budgeted salary range… in the job description…

  128. Ericka Ginter

    WE ARE WOMEN!
    WE DONT GET DEVASTATED! WE BECOME EMPOWERED!!

  129. Anonymous

    you are not helpful. let me repeat that: you are not helpful.

  130. MandaTaylor

    This response was not necessary. We are about bringing people up. Please respect your peers here.

  131. Anonymous

    Omg please stop. I'm cringing so hard it's actually painful

  132. Healthcare worker

    Guessing at one point she sold essential oils or nail wraps.

  133. Anonymous

    if you google her, she's big in the 'empath community' which seems somehow sadly hilarious. I think, for me, the kicker was 'they want you to negotiate higher!'--i mean on what planet does that even make sense? Hell of a drug...

  134. Anonymous

    yeah...and then I have friends in academia who hire, and who do expect some negotiation. I just feel incredibly unlucky here and it's only making me feel worse I am still so upset and the ads I apply to just make me feel horrible. I'm intensely not interested in any of them but I will apply, and i will take one if it comes through and I ... I just can't get over both the shock and the hating myself to be honest. I know that's not a functional response but it's the response I'm having.

  135. Anonymous

    I don’t know where in Academia they EXPECT negotiations. Most accredited institutions have set budgets and many have CBAs that set the salary. But obviously this person needed to trust her gut and not give her power away to people who just wanted to influence her. Now she is without a job, but shouldn’t blame the others. When it comes down to it, she has to take responsibility for what she did. Maybe next time she will consider the source.

  136. Anonymous

    was me repeatedly saying the choice was mine and that i don't blame others for their counsel not in the posts of mine you read? B/c i put it there. I' m not blaming anyone but myself. And that's part of the problem b/c I pretty much want to die.

  137. MandaTaylor

    She was trying to be uplifting. This response was inexcusable.

  138. Anonymous

    Her response is not uplifting though. Telling someone who feels sad, even depressed, to show them you’re not weak is hurtful. Feeling sad is not a weakness. OP has already fought. OP has already gone back to the employer to ask and even beg.

  139. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    WRONG. "Ericka Ginter's" response was inexcusable.

    It's clear from her response that she clearly either did not read the original poster's post or if she did read it, she paid absolutely no attention to it.

    The OP IS DEVASTATED at what happened to her and "Erica Ginter" throws out a string on unhelpful, unrelated, uninformed, unsympathetic BS.

    SHE SAID:
    "Give them a higher offer."

    WHAT OFFER? The offer has been rescinded.

    SHE SAID:

    "Give them a higher offer. "

    What the heck does that even mean? Candidates don't GIVE OFFERS. They receive offers.

    SHE SAID:
    "Up the offer!"

    Again, WHAT OFFER? There no longer IS an offer.

    SHE SAID:
    "Represent that brand!"

    WHAT brand? What does that even mean?!

    The OP did not respond to this comment, but when I read it, it made me wish there was a down vote button on this site.

    Ignoring reality, ignoring what happened, ignoring someone's pain, is not uplifting.

  140. Healthcare worker

    Agreed sounds like a lot of that life coach BS that MLMs are pushing.

  141. Julie E

    I always research the job title on salary.com and ask what the salary range is for the position when interviewing so there are no unwelcome surprises.

  142. Anonymous

    did it. did all of it. didn't matter. nothing i asked for was simply asked for. All of it was asked for for a real reason that I could document (example "the market rate for this job at various databses is X" "this field often allows people to level up on PTO"--everything I suggested had 'documentation' behind it). I want to believe people can, and should, negotiate an offer reasonably but that belief has been crushed in me personally. We all deserve better.

  143. Anonymous

    i did every single thing you're gtalking about maryann, i assure you. as someone who stayed her last position for 24 years, and the hiring people knew this, I think you're off track here. You can't know all of the details, of course, so I can't hold that against you. But at 24 years in the same job, I was hardly a flight risk. I have no idea what you mean by 'if you were never able to pay your bills'--that isn't my situation. I don't hae a clue what you're talking about to be honest.

  144. Anonymous

    I think her assumption comes from this statement you made " I have never been able to pay my grocery bill with that cache...it may surprise those of you NOT in academia to hear it, but the pay stinks"

  145. Anonymous

    OH I see. Ok thanks for that. Yes. I wasn't clear: I started at terrible pay; my field is not paid well anyplace! but Ivy League univs are famous for terrible pay b/c there's cache in saying I work for the Ivy League! But at the end of the day, you can't use that cache for your bills!

  146. Anonymous

    You are right that the market we're hearing about is mostly low-wage or IT jobs (only certain IT jobs at that). It's disappointing to hear they wouldn't even negotiate but kudos to you for giving it a try. I recently started a job and have repeatedly kicked myself for not negotiating harder. We don't all have the financial luxury to fight the good fight of fair wages, but thank you for trying. I sincerely hope you find something you can be equally excited about. Please keep us posted.

  147. Eloisa Jacinto

    This is a costly lesson but a lesson nonetheless. Just don’t take too long in a period of regrets. Move forward and you’ll do better how to position yourself when the next opportunity comes along. Good luck!

  148. Anonymous

    thank you I am trying. I am not there yet, but I am trying to have perspective. Being forced out of my profession by a horrible set of bosses, being dumped out of the blue by my parnter of 5 years, falling into a huge depression that I have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at, being laid offI know that ery, very many of us are having such hard times now and have gone through such hard things By no means do I think I am unique or special in my suffering. Honestly But it's making it hard to have perspective and to forgive myself for throwing my baby under the wheels of a truck (what this situation feels like). It is humbling to offer to beg for an offer to be opened again and not hear back. I'd beg every day if I had to and if it meant i'd get the offer again, but I have to hope something else will materialize for me).

  149. Stephanie F, MSHRM

    I'm sorry for your frustration and praying things work out in the near future.
    I was reading through the comments and I myself work in academia. While it is true that we have set budget ranges, we don't mind when someone attempts to negotiate. It means you recognize your worth and experience.
    What we do, and what I think sucks that they did not do, is that we communicate if it is above what can be offered and allow you to make the decision on accepting.
    It is horrible that they just rescinded the offer without the opportunity to express that there was no room and allow you to decided if you were willing to take it or leave it.
    I don't know what type of position you are looking for or within what area, but feel free to reach out to me and I can direct you to some positions in Miami.

  150. Anonymous

    thank you very kindly but im not in that geog area.

  151. Stephanie F, MSHRM

    If you are interested.
    We are working on a remote policy, but there were some specific positions that are already remote based on duties.

  152. Anonymous

    Ok. For my own sanity I need to try to move on. I don't at the moment know how but I have to just try to live through what has been exceedingly painful as a life experience. I wanted to be sure to thank the many of you who spent the time and energy to give me your thoughts and to tell me you were so sorry it happened to me. This is the only place I felt I could talk about this. I'm very embarrassed about it and where my life is at the moment and so I haven't wanted to tell anyone i know BUt I want to add one thing which came to me today: i only ever got to speak to a middle person in this. I was never speaking with anyone in HR who could actually give me anything I was asking about. So this put me at a huge disadantage which I feel HR should have recognized They chose not to recognize that. If I had been talking to the person I needed to talk to, I would have a sense that she or he was resistant. I would have heard a tone, or the phrase 'nothing is negotiable', and gotten an answer 'no' and could have read the room. They also would have heard how much I wanted the job and might have not felt pulling the offer was right. Unless I was just going to say a full yes right away (always an option and the one I wish I'd taken) then having me talk to a middle person was ONLY ever setting me up to fail. There is no way I was going to 'win' in that kind of set up. I wasn't negotiating with the negotiator. And that is a really, really unfair position to put someone in, esp in a job market like this one and in the era of covid where so many things are unstable and changing every day. I am hoping that making myself believe this helps me start to make room in my head to move on. I am still applying for jobs and trying not to give up. And hoping that, 13 weeks after I started filing for unemployment that something finally comes through. The waiting has gotten super old.

  153. Leslie Laverdiere

    Become a contractor (self employed). You will never be an employee again.

  154. Anonymous

    honestly, when people give this advice is it ever helpful? I call this kind of online post the 'strawberry' post. So for example, I go online and ask: where can I buy the best blueberries in town? And then people reply: I know where you can get great strawberries!--With all due respect, read the room?

  155. Evelyn Livant

    I went through nearly a year of unemployment during COVID and I understand the devestation of losing opportunities and how painful that can be. You are right - you have to keep presenting a positive face to potential employers and that is incredibly difficult. Rejection in any form it tough. After I got hired and working again, I found a side benefit I had not expected. I build up way more of a professional network than I ever expected. Be good to yourself. Take time for self-care. Hug a teddy bear or whatever helps.

  156. anon3796

    It sounds like you need to take some time to work on yourself, your feelings, your attitude, etc. before applying for another job. Right now you sound defeated and this will carry through on interviews and you will come across as desperate. You do not want to approach another job application with these feelings. You can set yourself up for a horrible future, salary, etc. Get some help (psychological) to overcome all that has happened to you and once you have healed some move forward. If you do not have health coverage consult your local library and read books that can help you heal and move forward in a positive way. I am very afraid of you moving into anything right now.

  157. Anonymous

    Is it possible to go back to HR/the person you spoke with/their manager or anyone else there? It may take them some time to find someone else and they could be receptive to hearing back from you.

    FWIW, you didn't do anything wrong. Negotiating job offers, even in a field where us "usually" isn't done (and you reported an instance where it was in fact done) is so standard that it's hard to believe (although I do believe you!) that someone was so insulted by it that they rescinded the offer. That's an extreme outlier position and you had no way to know this would happen, because in 99.9% of cases it wouldn't.

  158. Anonymous

    I did email at the end of the day that I learned I'd lost the offer. There was no answer from anyone (4 ppl were on the 'to' line of the mail). So I think that ship has truly sailed. i will never know why they did what they did. As a Type A person that is so hard to deal with, and it also makes me feel like I can't learn whatever lesson this was supposed to teach me! At the end of the day, what I'm taking away is that I'll never negotiate again. That is not what others might take away, I know, but I feel like a beaten dog, and I just know that I won't have the nerve to try those moves again! Thanks for the kind words.

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