I have been in my current role for 7 months, I supervise 2.5 employees.

50 Comments

1. JulieFebruary 10,2023 at 3:25PM UTC

   Time to change people, i.e., change your people.

2. FrankieFebruary 10,2023 at 4:25PM UTC

   It sounds like you’re not actually a manager but one of those pseudo manager roles if you dont actually have the power to write up or terminate your own staff. I’d start looking for new jobs, this sounds like a toxic environment for you. At the very least clarify with your manager what is and isn’t within your power and make sure expectations are clear. Anything outside your official job function shouldn’t be your responsibility. If they fire you or write YOU up for not doing something outside of your outlined responsibility, you have leverage.

3. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 6:31PM UTC

   I agree. If you can't even write people up, you're not the manager. And the "subordinates" are probably well aware of this. Unless you are willing to earn respect, and being willing to be let go in the process because you're going to ruffle many a feather, after 7 months they aren't going to change their tune. The pack can smell the informal hierarchy and they know when someone doesn't really call the shots. More than simply managing a department, there seem to be bigger, systemic faults that will always undermine your efforts. And unless you have the CEO's ear, and that person actually cares and intends to effect change, it's time to move on. Whatever you document, other people are also "documenting" all your short comings and every mistake. Then they'll go after the weaker link, whoever that may be. And so the cycle continues.

4. AnonymousFebruary 10,2023 at 4:28PM UTC

   Run, if the environment was toxic before you got there, you’re just going to be a fuel to the fire of resentment.

5. BarbaraFebruary 10,2023 at 7:13PM UTC

   I would like to run, however it has been difficult to find a job and I have only been here 7 months employers.

6. Angie MartinFebruary 12,2023 at 1:40PM UTC

   The job market is wide open. Network, work with recruiters. Do what you can to get out. Cut your losses now, and move on to a job where you are respected.

7. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 1:51PM UTC

   It's not difficult to find a job in this economy. There are many of them, but people don't want to work certain jobs. Some income is better than none!

8. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 8:12PM UTC

   If you have at least 60 college credits, in many states you could substitute teach and look for another job at the same time. It’s flexible and will generate some income at the same time.

9. AnonymousFebruary 11,2023 at 2:18PM UTC

   Get defined expectations of your role in writing. Tape everything, keep quiet (as much as possible) and look for a new job.

10. AnonymousFebruary 11,2023 at 3:28PM UTC

    If you’re not allowed to fire someone for insubordination you are technically not a manager. You may be a supervisor at best. You’ve been there for 7 months, this is clearly a toxic environment. If I were in your position, I wouldn’t waste anymore time nor resources on reporting members of your team. I would be spending every spare minute of my free time networking and actively looking for other jobs. Without any other details of your situation, that’s the only advice I’d give. I don’t think it matters how long you’ve been at your current position—a toxic environment is a toxic environment!!

11. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 1:50PM UTC

    Amen!!!

12. AnonymousFebruary 11,2023 at 7:42PM UTC

    RUN!!!!!

    This happened to me, and I left after 6 months. My supervisor then had to deal with those people herself, learned where the real problem was.... and then she got fired.

13. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 1:13PM UTC

    There are things you can change on a job and things you can't. They tied your hands for not being able to fire the bully. They have chosen a bully over you. Read that again, they have chosen the bully over you. A few things you could do. Consult an attorney. Is the abuse you are taking against the law? I hate bullies with a passion and at all my jobs everyone appeases the bully because they are afraid of him or her and other people suffer and ultimately, leave jobs they were good at. Keep a journal of your abuse (and it is abuse. It certainly isn't professional behavior) and all the visits you make to managers. I would definitely start putting things in emails and keeping copies as proof.

    Sharpen up your Linkedin and resume. Start putting your feelers out. Honestly, even if the bully goes do you want to work for a place like this?

14. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 1:26PM UTC

    It is time to plan your exit. This is battle is not worth your energy at all. I have seen companies side with bullies or minimize their unacceptable behavior. It’s seems as if they value her more than you, so it’s time for you to go where you’ll be valued. You deserve to be working for a company that promotes all employees being treated with dignity and respect!

15. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 2:00PM UTC

    This happened at my company and the bully was terminated. Unfortunately that will not happen here. I suggest laying low and start job hunting.

16. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 2:01PM UTC

    Sounds like my experience with Amazon. Gt out as quickly as possible.

17. Sheila PhieldsFebruary 12,2023 at 2:02PM UTC

    In my experience it’s a 50/50 shot. I’ve seen bullies get laid off and others fired. I’ve also experienced bullies that stay in their positions despite having any authority and numerous complaints over many years remain in their positions. I’d start circulating my resume. This is the best time of year to find a new job.

18. AyianFebruary 12,2023 at 2:19PM UTC

    When you are unsupported by your management team early on, it is a good indicator that it will remain that way in perpetuity. Make your choices based off of that assumption.

19. Nicole ColemanFebruary 12,2023 at 2:22PM UTC

    Do you have a Human Resources Department? If so, please consult with them. There should someone in the department that handles employee relations. If you’re working for a company that has an operating Board of Directors, bring those issues to their attention. Nothing will change unless you find an ally in the company that has the ability to examine, investigate, and propose solutions for these issues.

20. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 2:33PM UTC

    I am the in HR and I have consulted with the CPO, and "they" will not do anything. I had a new person in HR who witnessed the abusive behavior, tape recorded a conversation shared it with the CPO and still nothing was done. The toxic environment in HR is unbelievable, we are the face of the organization, and all eyes are on us, and this is not what I envisioned for me or my department.

21. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 3:06PM UTC

    If HR is trying to do something and the CPO won’t do anything, then it sounds like the problem is not HR, but the CPO, in which case this is a much larger issue and probably won’t ever be addressed. If that’s the case, it might be time to start looking for another company.

22. Mary PoolFebruary 12,2023 at 2:32PM UTC

    Document, document, document! Document the employee's performance, and document your management's response - preferably in a email reiterating your desire to write the employee up and their refusal to allow it. If you get let go, you need to get able to support your performance. I have found that documenting a meeting in an email has changed manager behavior. "To review our meeting on xxx, I requested xxx; your response was xxx. I would like to restate I don't believe the current approach is in the best interest of the department." Then keep looking for a new position.

23. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 2:35PM UTC

    Ask HR to start attending your meetings with this team so they can moderate (and witness) the abusive behaviors and reinforce the necessity of a more respectful way of working together. With HR present, have an open and honest conversation with your team about their issues and what they would like to change. Be ready to listen and not immediately shut down their complaints. Perhaps the team just wants to be heard. Give clear feedback about the rules and expectations you have for them. If there aren’t existing company rules on workplace behavior, set team rules of engagement and boundaries during this meeting about acceptable behaviors and ways of working together moving forward and then have HR continue to attend weekly group meetings to discuss progress. It’s likely nothing will change but it shows you are working towards a solution and being the adult in the room. With that intentional attempt to proactively manage your team, rather than being placed in a position where you are constantly reacting to them, your management team is more likely to agree to terminate any employee who doesn’t come on board. Good luck.

24. Dcre1977February 12,2023 at 2:58PM UTC

    Is your only response that you think thet should be written up? What specific guidance have you been given on hamdling these employees?

    If these employees have good performance evaluations prior to you then HR is right to be leary of them suddenly being fired for insubordination. I would learn what value they bring to the team and see what previous supervisors did to harness it.

25. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 3:29PM UTC

    Get out NOW. This situation (not job) is not going to get better, not magically, not gradually. They do not give a flying you-know-what how this affects you, and upper management undermines you. This will only give you long term nightmares, real and figurative. It is not worth your health.

26. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 3:35PM UTC

    What is .5 of an employee?

27. Megan WestrumFebruary 12,2023 at 3:39PM UTC

    Part time staff

28. Megan WestrumFebruary 12,2023 at 3:45PM UTC

    For all meetings (team meetings, one on ones etc.) include 1 HR person and your direct supervisor.

    Document time and date when these employees are “lashing out” so you have common examples of what these employees are doing to show insubordination.

    Meet with your direct supervisor each week, so you can provide these instances with documentation weekly.

    Try following these for a month and see if progress is being made for your staff. At the same time, try job hunting again. That way if you do not see the situation getting better for you, you have another opportunity lined up that isn’t toxic for your mental health and professionalism.

29. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 4:28PM UTC

    I have been there and it’s not easy once the employee thinks they can push you they will. Document everything they say and do I even used my phone to record behaviors of screaming and rudeness. It’s a sad situation and stressful because the employees say and do anything to get others to back them up. Keep positive and strong and don’t stoop to their level because that is what they want . Stay calm and keep focused on documenting everything. And get your manager to come sit in a meeting with you and the screaming employee. Once you do that they will see you mean business and now have support. And ask your boss if they want to support you and this is what you need to fix the behavior. It’s hard and good luck

30. El McDavidFebruary 12,2023 at 4:35PM UTC

    I have had to deal with the same thing from a fellow employee but I am soon to retire so looking for another job for me seems that no one would want to hire someone my age. All the upper management has allowed this and I have been told lies on and it really makes you feel very different. But for you I would say apply for other jobs and get out because it is just not worth it. Some people are just not kind to others but you can be kind to yourself. Go where you are appreciated. I hope it all works out and you find a great job.

31. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 5:23PM UTC

    I have and actually am in this situation. My company is pretty technical in a professional. That is not trained for anymore. So you have to train and build those that have the skill sets we need. Hiring and trying to train people in this industry is not often successful.as a result we have long term employees in certain areas that are really good with what is often referred to “tribal knowledge” but are rude, insubordinate and act in ways that are so toxic. Demeaning and undermine any new employee and often long term employees that they consider lower down than them.ownwrship knows this and often says “X is an A-Hole we all know that, ignore him, but don’t poke the bear because we need his skill set”.so as someone there 2 1/2 years who is also highly needed but i guess a bit easier to replace, I am not deemed as important when these horrible situations come up and one of these people go after me or one of my employees or my vendors. My boss is the owner and president and all he or HR says is just ignore X, he is an A-Hole. So the ultimate message is I value you but not as much as these toxic old timers as they cannot be replaced, so suck it up we need them. at the same time, my boss is always grumbling about our high turnover rate and attendance record of all new hires but refuse to acknowledge the connection. This culture is so deeply rooted, the only way to escape it is to leave as it will not change because of my boss’ attitude about it. so all I can do. Even though I love my job and most of the people? Is keep my eyes open for my next opportunity.

32. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 6:22PM UTC

    It's time for you to take control clearly you have to break the pattern of behavior which is acceptable there. Sit down the instigator and ask her point blank what she is trying to achieve with her behavior. In my opinion I would have HR in the room. Cite specific examples written, witnessed or emailed or in company slack of chat. Let her know that you expect professionalism from her and that as one of the more important members of your team you hope she will set the standard for excellence that is expected of the company. Memorialize it, put it in her personnel folder. Be sure when you speak to her you are acknowledging it and not pointing any blame but that it cannot continue. This is a verbal warning. Over the next 30 days track changes and if they do reward it with face to face well dones and accolades for shifting tone. If things don't change you have fodder for moving to the next phase which is protecting yourself from the companies inability to support you as a leader and forcing you to work in a hostile workplace. Speak to HR again and let them know that if there is not structured intervention you will have to take other action. Time box it - the company must respond within 30 days or you have legal recourse. Take it if you need it and find a less toxic place where you can shine and be respected.

33. Anne Marie HFebruary 12,2023 at 7:27PM UTC

    Tremendous wisdom right here!! I applaud you! Such SOLID guidance! You're such a sound thinker!!!!!!

34. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 11:19PM UTC

    This is clearly the most solid advice; however I'm going to add an element of bravery to it. FIRE the toxic employee and document it with HR. Exercise your authority. Then do the above "reset" of your supervisor role. You have nothing to lose if you are just going to leave anyway.

35. Anne Marie HFebruary 12,2023 at 6:31PM UTC

    You are the proverbial "Fall Guy"... : the Supervisor who's "responsible" but not "empowered" which is essentially a no-win position. You're obligated to make it happen (to produce whatever you & your team do), and if they don't, you have to make it happen regardless how long it takes you without extra pay as a salaried supervisor, so it's a complete win for your supervisor(s) and unfortunately since you're not "allowed" to write-up the ringleader, your supervisor(s) have completely undermined your authority. Unless you lay new groundwork in writing, spelling-out your exact people-managment role(s), responsibilities & the exact punative meaures with which you are endowed without secondary oversight, you won't be able to change the dynamic they (your supervisor/s have set in motion.

    The fact that your underlings have actually bullied you demonstrates they have no respect for your role and zero fear of reprisal as your supervisor(s) have green-lighted their misbehavior, confirming your underlings can act with impunity.

    People management is getting very difficult nowadays. Your only hope of turning-the-ship around would be in getting your supervisor's boss involved (to make them aware that your supervisor has undermined your authority over your 2.5 direct-reports, i.e. won't allow you to exercise your authority, enforce company policy about insubordination, essentially allowing your direct reports to act with impunity), but if you're saying your supervisor's boss allows it, your ONLY recourse is filing a complaint with HR against your bullying underling, as that's a personal affront. Doing so will of course prompt HR to discuss the circumstances with you, they'll undoubtedly ask why you haven't exercised your supervisory authority for such insubordination, and that will do the "tattling" on your supervisor. At that point, they may ask why you didnt take-up the issue with your supervisor's boss, and that will expose the reason why your subordinates are insubordinate. Here is where it gets dicey: HR may be too intimidated by your 2.5 staff as many businesses HR Depts are finding it treacherous navigating personnel issues as folks are quick to say they're being targeted due to their "protected" class as there's SO MANY nowadays that pretty much every employee falls into 1... . But documented, witnessed insubordination is inexcusable and should be investigated by HR. And your supervisor & their boss's "hand-tying" of you must be addressed, and needs to be brought to resolution: either you're an empowered supervisor or not, empowered to enforce company policy per company's disciplinary protocol OR you are NOT the fall-guy. You do not get the supervisory responsibility without also the supervisory privilege, the privilege to exercise the company policy. Those are the guidelines you're allowed to follow, the responsibility and the privilege go hand in hand. If HR doesn't have-your-back, won't redress your supervisor and their manager, then just proceed with your bullying complaint against your staff but know that staying there in that supervisory role without authority is on you going forward. You could always change your mind about the role and revert back to.your non-supervisory role, but if so, I'd look for another job as your supervisor & their boss sound like they're in-bed-with the bullies and might likely promote them to YOUR old supervisory role, and that would be pure HELL for you, as they probably WOULD let them report you for whatever they want. I guarantee the bully and your supervisor & their boss are probably friends outside of the office. Hope this perspective helps.

36. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 7:05PM UTC

    Yes and if you have to leave your role because of their behaviours - it will continue for the next supervisor and the next supervisor on and on. Whoever takes over your position will be faced with the same problems - Groundhog Day. If only HR could see how this undermines the company and the culture in the long run. Good luck I hope everything works out for you.

37. Anne Marie HFebruary 12,2023 at 7:25PM UTC

    That's a PERFECT analogy, Groundhog's Day!

38. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 8:14PM UTC

    There are a lot of assumptions you’ve posed in your response based on the small amount of background provided. There could be so many scenarios at play in the poster’s situation. It sounds like you’re writing from experience and not a positive one. Sorry that happened to you.

39. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 8:28PM UTC

    Unfortunately you do not have the trust and support of leadership so there is little you can do to change the situation. You've been told nothing will be done to change the situation.

    I would keep a low profile, update your resume and start looking for a new job so you can start building your career.

40. misskelleypFebruary 12,2023 at 9:25PM UTC

    Apparently you're not actually in charge, and your team knows this. You have no management support. I have no idea how you're supposed to be productive in this situation. I would start seriously looking for another job ASAP. There is no reason to stay in this one.

41. AnonymousFebruary 12,2023 at 9:49PM UTC

    Update your resume and search for a new job. That's a TOXIC environment and it is unacceptable to treat you in that manner. HR will not be your advocate. Get out before your memtal and emotional health suffer severely!!

42. AnonymousFebruary 13,2023 at 1:11AM UTC

    These situations are so tiresome. So much energy is wasted, where it might have been used at work, and for work. Blatant, tenured, and/or novice bullies....need to be expelled. If not, where then, is the incentive...to treat each other with respect and dignity? Enough!!

43. Arlene Frances Gottardo (Bryak)February 13,2023 at 1:28AM UTC

    What a waste of time! Time to sit down & work this all out. Point-blank ask the group & instigator what they don’t like about your mgm’t. Style- then work on it

44. AnonymousFebruary 13,2023 at 4:30AM UTC

    I just don't understand how this kind of behavior is tolerated and companies remain successful and on target. It seems like their bottom lines would suffer to the point that leaders would at least address it.

    Anyway, I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. But as others have said, if the managers won't address it, the behavior is rewarded.

    This is so crazy.

45. AnonymousFebruary 13,2023 at 5:42AM UTC

    Are you her manager? I gather so because you say that she should have been fired for insubordination. As a manager, it's your duty to really understand each person's characteristics to effectively lead them, and to create a positive boss-employee relationship. Most people do not follow an instigators lead when it comes to their job. It sounds like maybe they have a problem with your management style and perhaps you should take a deep look within. The fact that they did not fire her for insubordination leads me to believe perhaps your manager has the same opinion.

46. Vanda LeeFebruary 15,2023 at 8:30PM UTC

    I agree with looking at the OP management style but if their manager is unwilling to support them thru coaching, it's a dead end. The OP's manager is reluctant to invest in leadership development and that signals that they are part of this horrible culture. OP - start looking for another job where you are appreciated and there's an opportunity for leadership growth.

47. AnonymousFebruary 13,2023 at 12:32PM UTC

    Document, document, document

48. AnonymousFebruary 13,2023 at 12:57PM UTC

    2.5 employess??? Could you mean 2 full time and 1 part time? If so, that's 3 team members. Just saying. Stuck there for a second.

    "Concerned about the 'communicated to my manage for 7 months" . Sounds like, IMO, start over, start afresh, build relationships first. Have 1 on 1's and ask how they feel it's going. When your manager isn't a source of support, and not offering insight on this or your opportunities, go to your manager's manager.

49. AnonymousFebruary 13,2023 at 7:14PM UTC

    If it quacks, it's likely a duck. After what they put me through, that is the most limited character I could type. Sounds like you worked there or were part of the Toxic gang. You've been flagged.

50. Liz MilneFebruary 20,2023 at 1:01AM UTC

    If you cannot manage this employee, you are not her supervisor... Communicate to your managers that you will no longer tolerate an abusive subordinate and if they will not sort her out - or allow you to do so - you will walk. Start looking for another job now, so if they call your 'bluff' you can back it up with immediate action...