Hello all, I've been struggling lately with incredible misogyny, double-standards and sexism in the workplace.

44 Comments

1. Stephani SchupbachMarch 18,2024 at 7:58PM UTC

   I can't make blanket statements like that from my experience. I've had fantastic male and female leaders and some truly atrocious ones. The first male managers I had more than 25 years ago were incredibly supportive. Then I went to another place and faced misogyny and sexual harassment. I once had a HR-unsavvy manager whom I had to consistently correct for his bumbling sexist and racist remarks. He was completely horrified when I pointed it out to him the first time. (Was he not paying attention to our HR training?? Don't know.) In recent years, both leadership and male clients have been wonderful, but there have definitely been some bad apples as well. Don't give up - move on. It's not bad everywhere.

2. AnonymousMarch 18,2024 at 9:14PM UTC

   It has gotten much better, it's difficult to understand if you've not been a part of such change. Marinating in 'current horrors' I don't see the added value. Asking for feedback on how to address or move forwards seems more productive and a positive step forward. Being a part of the solutions in collaborative conversations seem to be a better approach. So harmful of a view, good luck.

3. AnonymousMarch 19,2024 at 6:49PM UTC

   There is an unwillingness to have “collaborative conversations” in these type of environments. That’s part of the problem. It’s shocking to go into a job with that mindset - working collaboratively - and to be viciously attacked for it. I wouldn’t have believed things could still be so bad had I not experienced it firsthand. Some workplaces are so toxic that leaving asap is the best option.

4. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:31PM UTC

   I’m glad you think so and that you’ve had a positive experience. For some of us, especially those of us who are older, we have seen change and there’s no doubt about it. But that doesn’t mean that it’s better across-the-board, because it’s not and there’s absolutely no one who will state that there is complete equality and a lack of sexism in the workplace. I didn’t ask for advice because I know how to navigate this type of environment. I’ve done it all my career. I’m actually just wondering if it’s getting better for others out there or if they are still experiencing the same kind of crap that we’ve all experienced over the last 50 years. I went to a women’s conference this year, and I couldn’t believe the same type of sexism and misogyny was still happening on a daily basis to almost all of the women that attended.

5. AnonymousMarch 18,2024 at 10:57PM UTC

   Not sure if this qualifies, but as a professional woman in a "man's field"- tax Accountant, I feel that female supervisors can be worse than a man: competition.
   If you are close in talent to a female supervisor, watch out!!!!

   It's awful. Yes, it's good that it pushes me to do better, but aggravating because the experts in the team refuse to work as a group due to their insecurity

6. AnonymousMarch 19,2024 at 4:15AM UTC

   My experience has been similar.

   What was true in the nineties is still true today. Women managers have been some of my best and worst managers. They either mentor or sabotage other women and the sabotage is often subtle until it develops a pattern where you realize what is happening.

   With male managers I have found it more straightforward. Either they were great managers and supported and/or mentored you or you knew they couldn't stand you, would cut you down or attempt to get rid of you. With the male managers the upside was that you knew where you stood.

   With experience you get to recognize the signs of the poor managers more readily and can design an escape strategy - either to another business unit or company.

   Hopefully, you can pick up signs of future treatment from interview questions. One question I like to ask is what the possible future manager likes about the company. The answer tells you a considerable amount about their attitudes and what they value.

7. AnonymousMarch 23,2024 at 12:56PM UTC

   Yeah, I’ve read that it’s because they think they’re scarcity for female employees. So they think that if they treat you well and keep you on they’re gonna end up losing their job because there’s only room for one woman. I can’t blame them for thinking that because that used to be the case. But the fact that it still happens is worrying. It does make me wonder if some companies do put a cap on it.

8. AnonymousMarch 19,2024 at 12:55PM UTC

   I’m in my early 40’s. I had the worst experience of my life in the job I started in 2022. Too many appalling things to list, but here’s one gem: I reported bias against myself and other women and the company’s response was to write me up for allegedly being biased against men. The company did nothing to stop the daily bullying and harassment I was experiencing… but they did fire me for reporting it. First time in my life that I’ve been terminated. Worst company I’ve ever worked for.

9. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:25PM UTC

   That’s terrible! And it’s also retaliation. I I would have reported that to the NLRB so fast it would’ve made their head spin! I’m so sorry!

10. Lia BlokhuisMarch 19,2024 at 3:36PM UTC

    Sometimes it's a lack of solidarity that's at issue! When I was in my early 50's had a female manager (only a few years older) put into my performance review that I should "be nicer". Keep in mind, it was a male-dominated workplace, where most of the men were in their mid to late 50's and above. I was well-respected by them because I spoke on their level, gave them snark when they talked to my chest, and did my job. I asked my manager to quantify "nice" and asked, if I were a man, would she be having this conversation with me? She said "no". I went to HR, but that didn't accomplish anything, so I ultimately left. Unfortunately, as human beings, we'll always be subject to some form of judgement based on our physical presentation and communication style. It ultimately comes down to deciding how much one is willing to accept, I guess.

11. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:24PM UTC

    That’s definitely what I’m going through down. I can’t say or do or act the same way that men do and I find that very frustrating.

12. ny2phillyMarch 20,2024 at 3:14AM UTC

    Correction...
    it was getting better but now things have slipped backward and some of the protections we've grown to expect are going away. Be scared, be very scared! I once was confident that if I spoke up to the offender, I could educate and feel better about myself. Or, I could count on HR to have my back. Our rights are no longer guaranteed in this new environment. I am old enough to have fought for many of the rights women achieved in the workplace and it is extremely discouraging, and so sad to see the pendulum swing back.

13. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:23PM UTC

    I’m that old too, and I do remember thinking it was getting better. But now I also see it sliding backwards. I don’t see HR as a shield or protector of women any longer.

14. Material GirlMarch 26,2024 at 7:19AM UTC

    HR is there to protect the company

15. Diane J HuffMarch 26,2024 at 6:08PM UTC

    Not at any company I've worked, or not the small to medium businesses, especially the private ones. They do what the owners tell them to do and nothing else. Your only recourse is to report blatant abuse to the NLRB and hope they can assist, and if you don't have something documented, that's highly unlikely. Sad.

16. Diane J HuffMarch 26,2024 at 6:09PM UTC

    Wait, I think I misread your comment. And I agree! LOL. They don't care about the employee, as they should. They care about the company. Exactly.

17. AnonymousMarch 20,2024 at 12:34PM UTC

    “I just don’t see how you can be the kind of mom you want, AND a litigator”

18. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:04PM UTC

    What??

19. AnonymousMarch 21,2024 at 6:30PM UTC

    this was said in 2018. Fast forward to 2024 - my now 9 year old daughter was told to bring “a question” to a career day where they would interview a doctor. What she prepared was practically a deposition outline!!! ?

    looks like litigator moms make good role models.

20. AnonymousMarch 20,2024 at 1:18PM UTC

    I was offered an opportunity for a promotion a couple of weeks ago. I did not apply, I was not even aware the position was being vacated. I was brought into a meeting and Offered the position. I agreed to it, was excited, provided dates available for travel to training. I spent 3 days with the man who was leaving the job. He quickly recognized that I was more experienced than him and was excited that I was willing to take over. Other team members came by, also excited that I may be working with them in the future, happy to see me promoted. The one man who I would not be reporting to, but would work with on projects as he is the engineer, decided that he was not confident in my technical skills and has blocked my promotion by protesting it with upper management. I am now on hold. He is well known for being a chauvinist, is degrading to his own wife etc. and is now holding me back. I don’t know if his protest will hold but just the fact that he has launched it, has been difficult.

21. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:03PM UTC

    Wow. Their insecurities are something else, right?

22. Diane J HuffMarch 20,2024 at 6:27PM UTC

    I don’t get that. I really don’t understand how a woman can try to keep another woman down in the workplace. I mean that because she hast to know how hard it was for her to get in her position…. why would she not want to promote her path and try to help others do the same? It boggles the mind.

23. AnonymousMarch 20,2024 at 10:39PM UTC

    Oh I have three "great" stories!

    1) My first job out of college: my boss told me I looked like a lesbian always wearing pant suits and that I should dress more feminine if I wanted to secure more deals (we were doing a report in a country more known for misogynistic standards). He also told me my a$$ looked too fat in the pants. I was 125 lbs and 5'7'', so I was honestly shocked he considered me large, sexism and sexual harassment aside lol.

    2. Internship at a large media company during grad school. Hint: it's a very male dominated specialty still. I was working on the team that dealt directly with the product I'd be pitching for this new job I applied to internally. I was literally the only person that liased with the international offices (a major part of this new job). I met with the hiring manager. He told me sorry but they gave it to another (external) guy before they even interviewed me. When I pushed for feedback, this manager initially said "Well he's older than you and worked for (famous politician) as his comms assistant."

    I found out who they hired because he updated his linkedin and responded to the manager "This comes as a shock because (insert guys name) is my same age with the same years of work experience, except I have direct experience doing the tasks that this particular job requires including the international work aspect."

    Finally the hiring manager was candid and quite literally said with an annoyed sigh, " Here's the thing, you know this is a hard field for women right? It's even harder to send females overseas to meet with potential clients. It's just easier to send a guy. You should reconsider what you'd like to do in life."

    And so I did. I switched fields because of this Convo. Good times.

    3. Last one was a more oblivious boomer type director on our team. He'd undermine women all the time and praise the guys to the point that the guys thought it was hilarious. He ended up belittling the work I was doing during a dinner in front of all the managers saying "you're so busy all the time! What do you even do all day? Take photos?" I managed three separate teams in a high level project and for some events in my spare time, I'd take photos. He ended up leaving the project after the CEO saw how negatively he was affecting our ability to get stuff done.

    And all of this happened back in 1975...just kidding. It all occurred in the US except for the first job, over the last 10 years. We still have a long way to go.

24. Diane J HuffMarch 21,2024 at 10:02PM UTC

    Holy crap!

25. Randi PerryMarch 21,2024 at 1:04PM UTC

    I was once told by a male manager that he’d never promote me because eventually I would have babies and would want to focus on them.
    There are a lot of stories I could tell from that same company, but that was one of the worst.

26. AnonymousMarch 22,2024 at 1:16AM UTC

    Does anyone experience sexism from other women? I have.

27. Diane J HuffMarch 22,2024 at 6:58PM UTC

    More times than I care to count. I actually feel a little sorry for them, that they’ve been so indoctrinated by society and the patriarchy that they believe they have to be this way in order to be successful. That’s as far as my sympathy goes, because I will call them out straight to their face.

28. Material GirlMarch 26,2024 at 6:44AM UTC

    Yup. While most of my female coworkers are ok, I've worked with a few pick-me types. The pickme bosses were worst because they would undermine their female staff while being so helpful and flirty with the men. One even publicly admitted she didn't like women - she was proud of being harder on women because she believed men were more competent. And she was the exception to the rule.

    Women like this are deluding themselves if they think they "arent like other women" or "the exception that proves the rule". At the end of the day, they're still seen as women and men are just humouring them.

29. AnonymousMarch 22,2024 at 4:12AM UTC

    I'm sorry to hear. I have had several examples along my career. FWIW, I keep abreast of company policy, supervisor and leadership integrity (do words match actions match policy) and state/federal employment laws---as well as watching out for unspoken culture trends that may supersede written law. You name it, I've experienced it. Of late, it's mainly been women in leadership only wanting to be around clones and wanting you to figure it out on your own (and punishing you if you don't change- into something smaller). I commend you for calling it out and moving forward. Being in tune with the culture (of the team, workplace, etc.) can help you sink or swim. Being in tune with what your needs and opportunities (internally in a different department or another company) also help (e.g. do you just need the salary/benefits). Being in tune with yourself. By my 30's I noticed a seemingly invisible pattern impacting my work life. I chose to invest in myself- working with healers that could act as mirrors and help me identify patterns, change them (through communication, energy work, etc. )--- therapist as well as energy workers like psychic. That work, along with some great books, helped heighten my awareness (so I became proactive rather than reactive). Through practice, my energy shifted. Some people (esp. insecure leaders) acted like opposing magnets to me (when they once were verbally abusive). (I was shifting to leaving toxic environments). I started calling out - regardless of punishment. I searched for other work and asked tougher interview questions. If they couldn't agree with my culture questions, I didn't mind the rejection letter. My current phase is de-conditioning myself. I'm in a new job and don't want to fall into familiar habits and assumptions. When in doubt, build what you want to see- In solidarity.

30. AnonymousMarch 23,2024 at 12:54PM UTC

    Yes, I’ve also dealt with sexism over the decades. Not just sexism but blatant unwanted touching.

    I love how we’re all coming together about this. But I want to you all to consider something — in posts when someone is experiencing ageism, many, if not, most of the answers are somewhere along the lines of ‘you need to change your résumé and reduce your experience level so you don’t look so old’ or ‘ why are you jumping right to ageism? How do you know for sure it’s ageism?’

    Please consider that as you commiserate with your sisters here about sexism.

31. Diane J HuffMarch 23,2024 at 6:44PM UTC

    Great comment! Totally agree!

32. AnonymousMarch 23,2024 at 1:30PM UTC

    My former employers were very misogynistic, it was a husband and wife that owned the company together. The wife was actually worse than the husband. Hired men at higher wages than they were paying women with more experience. Not a place where you could call it out and keep your job.

33. Diane J HuffMarch 23,2024 at 6:43PM UTC

    Been there! Husband and wife team that were incredibly misogynistic and showed favoritism. Maybe we worked in the same place.

34. Colleen HansonMarch 23,2024 at 2:41PM UTC

    My last employer was like this!!! It was horrible! I was the Office Manager, so it did not affect me as much as it affected the female technician, who had experience in the field and a college education. Our boss hired a "buddy" of his, with no training or experience in the field, to work part time (we were told). Our female technician was expected to train him and he made it very clear to her that he "does not take instruction from a woman." Our boss was too lazy to get out and train him himself so it was a mess. Everything his "buddy" messed up (because he refused to listen to a female) got blamed on her because she "wasn't training him properly", despite expressing to our boss numerous times that he was refusing her training. The final straw for her came when she found out that he got hired at a much larger salary than she did, despite his lack of education and literally no training in the field.

    He was also invited to lunch with the boss several times a week, whereas he had never taken either of us females to lunch. They would take 2 hour lunches (paid) and come back drunk and smelling of cigars. They would also have numerous inappropriate conversations about women. It was definitely the "good ole boys" club. There was literally nothing we could do because our "boss" was the owner of the company.

    My co-worker found a much better position where she was paid much better and appreciated for her work ethic. The company started to decline rather quickly after she left because "good ole boy" had refused all of her training and didn't have a clue what he was doing. He now had no one else to blame his mistakes on. My boss was so angry that he actually had the nerve to call my co-workers new place of employment to bad-mouth her to her new employer (hoping they would fire her). As I had heard from a prior employee that he often did that (contacted former employees new employers to try to get them fired) I had advised her not to tell him who her new employer was; which she didn't. The boss came into the office bragging about how "her new job must not have worked out" because he had called and they had no record of her working there. He was laughing and cutting up with his "buddy" over it, talking about how he should be able to hire her back at a huge pay cut. He started calling her repeatedly and even asked me to call her and tell her "she could come back here to work". I finally told him that what he was doing was illegal (contacting her new employer with false allegations). He laughed and said "I've got the best attorneys in the world, what is she going to do, sue me?" It was then that I let him know that she had given him the name of a different employer, specifically for that reason, and that was not actually where she was working. The look on his face was priceless! He threatened to fire me if I did not tell him where she was working, but I let him know that I was recording our conversation and what he was trying to do was illegal. His "good ole boy" attitude was stymied that day and I loved every minute of it! He still operated like women had no place in the workplace and he could treat them as poorly as he wanted. I guess that would explain why none of his female employees lasted more than a year or so. It's sad that there are still men out there who operate this way and the laws do so little to protect women in the workplace.

35. AnonymousMarch 23,2024 at 6:09PM UTC

    Imagine a world where zero tolerance was obligatory. Where leaders are trained, and have an overseer making sure the letter of the law is respected. For now the employees and staff are always at fault, and they are the ones that have to leave.

36. Diane J HuffMarch 23,2024 at 6:40PM UTC

    Agree. Respect and decorum begins at the top. Everything begins at the top. They set an example and it gets trickled down. It’s the ONLY time trickle down works.

37. AnonymousMarch 24,2024 at 12:22AM UTC

    I have seen blatant and subtle misogyny.
    Sadly from women too. I think male dominated industries, especially tech and engineering are rife with misogyny.

    When I worked at a small startup, the females were questioned if they wanted to take PTO, yet the males could take PTO whenever they wanted. That was frustrating to witness.

    In my last job, the men were misogynistic and full of ego, but then again, engineers don’t have the greatest social skills. The company preached inclusion, but it only applied to the favorites. Favoritism definitely ran rampant, especially among the males and some females. A lot of females aligned themselves with the misogynistic men, which imo is misogynistic by association. They were the pick me women.

    Add ageism to the mix and that was enough for me. I left that job in November and frankly my mental health has improved. I have tried to stay in contact with a couple of coworkers from that job and it’s radio silence. So that tells me they joined ranks with the favorites. And that’s fine. I am honestly not interested in what’s happening at my last job.

38. AnonymousMarch 24,2024 at 6:08PM UTC

    Yes, some women are just as bad. I had a female boss who was appalled that I wanted to take the allowed 12 weeks of maternity leave. In her opinion that reflected badly on my dedication to my career and team. She had only taken two weeks after all and look where she was. I took the 12 weeks and regret nothing.

39. Diane J HuffMarch 24,2024 at 7:48PM UTC

    Tech is still very misogynistic. That’s my field. I still go to conferences where men outnumber women 15 to 1.

40. AnonymousMarch 24,2024 at 2:14PM UTC

    I had one job call my (now ex-) husband and ask if he would be willing to relocate if they transferred me to the home office for a promotion. They didn't like that he answered, "What type of career assistance can you provide me?" He expected them to find him a [executive-level] job, too. I never got offered the transfer or promotion.

41. Material GirlMarch 30,2024 at 10:53AM UTC

    I'm 50 and also sick of the double standards. I left my last 2 jobs due to the amount of sexism and aggression directed at women in senior roles. Each time I was told to be more amenable and watch my tone, which was held against me at promotion time, while these men were praised for showing "leadership" and fast-tracked to promotions. Thankfully my new job is better but I had to take a pay cut while these guys continue to be in lucrative roles.

    Some examples:

    One coworker actually tried to hit me in retaliation. He used to talk over me and derail my meetings (he didn’t do this to male coworkers). He ignored requests not to do that until several people also told him to stop. So a few weeks later, he tried to demonstrate on me how he disciplined his kids by trying to grab my arm and smack me. People excused his behaviour with “He’s on the spectrum, he can’t help it”, so I asked "Do you think he would've done this to a man?" I was told to be the bigger person.

    It was payback, but I didn’t bother reporting it because my manager had previously yelled at me to watch my tone. So I knew I’d be penalised for standing up for myself and not the guy who tried to hit me.

    The same manager was a Tatertot incapable of speaking to women without yelling at them. The only women he didn’t scream at were the pick-me’s who fawned over him.

    In another role, I had a manager who was dismissive towards female staff but chummy with “the boys”. He turned on me after I successfully ran some high-profile projects. He started belittling me in front of my snickering coworkers and eventually said “Don’t speak unless you’re spoken to”. The last straw was at team meetings where everyone gave progress updates. When it was my turn he said “You do not to speak unless I ask you a question. Next person please”. I resigned that week. Later I discovered, he’d taken credit for my work on his Linkedin profile.

    I don’t blame women if they decide to give up and leave the industry. Your health and peace of mind is more important.

42. Diane J HuffMarch 30,2024 at 6:37PM UTC

    Fully agree. I’ve left many roles after my bosses put me under another man to “mansplain” my projects. I’ve also left my boss took credit for my work during a cyber attack and got a $10m bonus. Men suck.

43. Material GirlApril 1,2024 at 12:41AM UTC

    I'm curious - when you call out double standards or bad behaviour, how do your coworkers react?

44. Diane J HuffApril 1,2024 at 7:13PM UTC

    Well, I worked on 2 huge enterprise projects for my company successfully. I got zero help. Bonus and raise time came around - I got nothing. I also got demoted and now I report directly to a man that mansplains my role to the boss. The women in the company were outraged. The men? Laughed it off.