Okay ladies, need some advice .. I just found out my MALE counterpart is making more than I am.

48 Comments

1. AnonymousJanuary 18,2025 at 5:57PM UTC

   This. I am a teacher. I just got a position as administrator in another school district. My director, also a woman, is helping me out of my contract early to get me into my new position. Why do women have a harder time getting ahead, getting a higher salary, etc etc. EVEN WHEN WE ARE MORE QUALIFIED FOR THE POSITION!! I’m more qualified than most at central office. I don’t get it….

2. Tami L CannizzaroJanuary 18,2025 at 10:15PM UTC

   Yes, in my experience sales teams have always received bigger bonuses and more perks that those of us in marketing.

3. MaryAnn Coats HastingsJanuary 19,2025 at 1:11PM UTC

   I don’t see the comparison. You are marketing and he is sales. Consequently the roles are different. You can ask to transfer to sales or mind your own performance and stop comparing yourself to other employees

4. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 3:35PM UTC

   I responded to this above, it’s different teams but the same role.

5. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 1:36PM UTC

   Switch to a sales role. Negotiate the pay.

6. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 2:09PM UTC

   Sooo true. Love the phrase comparison is the thief of joy.

7. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 2:53PM UTC

   Sales always makes more - where have you been?

   The issue of pay being in accordance to your geography, you might have a point there to take up with HR.

   You are comparing 2 different functions! Stop!

8. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 3:34PM UTC

   Not at this org, he’s not a sales person .. he’s sales operations. He manages sales tech, I manage marketing tech. It’s the same function ..

   not two different functions. I bring in the leads, he controls lead routing. Just for clarity I clearly missed above.

9. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 3:35PM UTC

   The person told me. He told me. Why would he be feeding me “a big fat lie”. This wasn’t 3rd party but right from the horse.

10. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 3:39PM UTC

    He’s not a sales person, he’s sales operations. I’m not a marketing manager .. I’m in marketing operations. We both serve the exact same function. I thought that was more clear but clearly not.

    also, in terms of negotiations, etc I did accept it but I feel like you miss the guise of having expected the company to be negotiating in good faith .. if they tell me no to negotiate then negotiate with someone else the same day, is that not strange. When the only difference is the gender. Making this about the department saying

    continues the “this is ok” for some awful reason when it’s not. We do the same job, I just do more when coupled with my management responsibilities and yet they get paid substantially more. End.

11. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 2:28PM UTC

    If you can clarify the roles and responsibility vs the "title" ie ops vs marketing in that they are very similar you may have a case. If you are able to prove the difference upon hire is only based on gender.

    BUT you must understand as everyone has said sales is a different cost/rev center than marketing, so different budgets not about levels.

    Compare the two and objectively figure it out. Consider switching teams but that may not let you negotiate. Speak with an employment attorney for ADVICE (otherwise you will be leaving want to or not as companies dont like these conversations esp if you have been there for years... also many consider it a code of conduct issue if you know this information about another) and then determine is it worth it.

    Or look for another job.

    Were you happy at the job before this knowledge or was it just something that tipped you?

12. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 4:06PM UTC

    Sales always makes more.

    you can negotiate more at your review but in this job market just be happy you have the job.

13. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 5:24PM UTC

    There will always be people who make more than you. Instead of focusing on the sales guy’s salary, focus on the added responsibilities you’ve received and how to request an increase. Like you I work with a male who manages no humans but makes more than the women that do. It’s a good ole boy system. Nothing I can do but rally for myself. So do that and focus your energy on how to get yourself there. And keep your resume updated for opportunities that reflect the salary you seek. Trust me he is in sales (I’ve been in that too) and they’re paid more because they make money for the company. Your job is different. Go to the bureau of federal statistics and research what your job should pay in your market. You may be above it. But a company will pay what they want.

14. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 5:59PM UTC

    One thing of note would be his sales from his previous employment; were his more than yours? Did they ask your figures during the interview? I don't know if sales figures matter regarding what I'm about to say: A Federal Law, The Lily Ledbetter Act, was enacted specifically for a situation like yours. Lily (a supervisor) found out that a male supervisor with the same experience and education was making more than her, 27 years later. She filed a lawsuit that went to the US Supreme Court and they decided against her, citing Statute of Limitations per when he got that first paycheck. Her att'ys argued every paycheck was a new instance. Hillary Clinton worked on writing a law to overcome the verdict and it passed through Congress, being the first law PBO signed as President.

    GET A LAWYER. The facts of your hiring and experience speak for themselves (especially the Masters). Do not delay. There is a valid Statute of Limitations attached.

    All the best to you!

15. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 6:21PM UTC

    There are many resources out there for communicating by email instead of of in-person in order to set a polite tone. The harsh comments don't phase me, but they might phase the OP. They are not helpful. They also are an indicator of why, at times, business is a cold harsh reality that does not have to be that way. Check the attitudes. Stat!

16. AnonymousJanuary 19,2025 at 9:10PM UTC

    His title includes Sales so he probably negotiated a bonus structure very different from yours so while you strongly believe you are viewed as the same or equal, you are not through the lense of titles. Your manager is viewing you as equal because of where you sit on his organizational chart not as potential earners.

    Please note that while you want to use his compensation package as the reason or focus for your fight for an increase/equality. I'm not certain that's the best strategy. This stance puts your leadership in the position of defending their strategy of designing his position with its comp v. Yours. That's not a negotiation, but a challenge. You don't use a defensive posture and expect a great outcome. You would lose the argument simply on the basis that MARKETING is not SALES. Completely different role within the business.

    Your role is that of a true manager with a team to manage. His role is most likely viewed as an individual contributor based on his title and role as Sales. You are not directly involved in sales while sales ops can demonstrate a direct impact. So you want to use apples and apples. I would research the market rates, industry guidelines and competition rates. This way you can use your MBA and years of experience along with the number of your direct reports, etc to your advantage. I don't think your education really factored in the first time (MBAs are not viewed the same these days as in the 90s).

    Try and make a sound, researched argument for your credentials and experience not arguing against someone else's situation. Your management did not treat the two titles equally when you two were hired therefore he was allowed more latitude in bonus structure while you were in marketing were shut down.

    Also consider a title change to Senior manager or director or whatever. This might add a more reasonable justification for your increase.

    Finally don't position yourself entitled based on anything except what you have achieved, your growth and what you have demonstrated during your tenure. Take the position that you've earned consideration not that you are owed an adjustment.

    Just my 2 cents.

17. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 5:23AM UTC

    Very clear understanding. Master class in negotiation.

18. Kelly CranfordJanuary 19,2025 at 11:45PM UTC

    Not fair - but welcome to the club. Do speak up to your employers. As a professional in a male dominated field, I finally, after over 30 years in the field and being recognized as a leader at the state level, am being compensated and treated equally to my male counterparts. Don't be shy about tooting your own horn for accomplishments.

19. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 1:23PM UTC

    I understand all the other things seeming off - but I want to make you aware that whether or not you have children, has ***absolutely*** no bearing on how much you make, because that would be discrimination based on family status.

20. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 1:57PM UTC

    I've recently discovered the sam. I am also performing more complicated tasks and have more direct reports

21. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 2:12PM UTC

    Could you do a better job in his role than he does? What if the person in sales was also a woman? One reason sales people make more is because if they don’t sell, they get fired. And sometimes the company makes decisions that impact sales negatively without sales having a voice in the room. TBH, the majority of the people I know are in sales aren’t the healthiest. And for women late in their career, it’s awful, because the ageism and misogyny is palpable. I have a close friend in business to business sales for a company with a good reputation around DEI, and she’s accepted the fact that dying her hair, nip/tuck surgery on “vacation”, fillers and uncomfortable shoes are a part of her life until she hits 63.5 and can Cobra till Medicare.

    If your salary is appropriate for your field and you otherwise like your work, decide if you want to pivot to sales and go for the big bucks or get OK with where you’re at.

22. Andrea DJanuary 20,2025 at 2:20PM UTC

    So sad to read yet another story that’s reaffirms to me that we are still living in the dark ages in regards to these issues… and yes I have seen the comments regarding the fact that your work roles are different, but if they weren’t, I’m just not confident that would change things because we see this everyday in every type of job field….I hope you resolve this, sending positive vibes to you

23. RCJanuary 22,2025 at 6:04AM UTC

    Second best comment.

24. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 2:23PM UTC

    I’ve been there. I was making $45,000 less annually than my male counterpart and he also had benefits I did not. I had an MBA and he never went to college. They also had me helping him in his role because I had previous executive leadership experience and he did not. I tried talking to my manager (the owner) about getting a raise

    more comparable to my male counterpart (not even the same pay) and things got worse for me. I ended up leaving the company. We very much still are living in a man’s world. I’d never experienced anything on that level prior but had similar experiences at two other jobs. The entire experience made my blood boil as well.

    I recommend scheduling a meeting with your department head to discuss the pay discrepancy, and consider inviting an HR representative to be included Approach the conversation with a positive and professional tone.

    For example, you might begin by acknowledging the company’s efforts to address pay discrepancies and expressing your appreciation for working at an organization that values fair compensation. Then, highlight your contributions and achievements within the company, and respectfully request that your position be included in the pay discrepancy review process.

    This approach ensures a constructive discussion while reinforcing your value to the company. Also be prepared to leave on a good note if things don’t change. You may need the references for the next job.

25. RCJanuary 22,2025 at 6:03AM UTC

    Best comment

26. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 2:34PM UTC

    For everyone telling a woman to get over it and accept it with out clearly reading or knowing sales vs marketing (ie very different roles and pay scale plans), perhaps you need to realize it can happen to you too (and will)

    Last week something historic happened yet many of us are clueless that we didnt really have equal rights as women (REALLY). Educate yourselves and care... even if it is just for your daughters and grand daughters.

    The Equal Rights Amendment (ERA), if fully ratified and incorporated into the U.S. Constitution, would provide a clear and explicit constitutional guarantee of equal rights under the law, regardless of sex. However, the ERA would not automatically make specific practices, like paying women less than men for the same job, illegal. Instead, it would strengthen the legal basis for challenging such practices.

    Current Laws on Pay Equity

    Under existing U.S. laws:

    Equal Pay Act of 1963: Prohibits pay discrimination on the basis of sex for men and women performing substantially equal work in the same establishment.

    Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964: Prohibits discrimination in employment, including pay, on the basis of sex, among other factors.

    How the ERA Would Impact Pay Discrimination

    If the ERA were ratified, it could:

    Provide Stronger Legal Protection: Strengthen the constitutional foundation for gender equality claims, making it easier to challenge pay discrimination and other forms of gender-based inequities in court.

    Increase Scrutiny of Pay Inequities: Require courts to apply "strict scrutiny," the highest level of judicial review, to laws or practices that discriminate based on sex.

    Promote Proactive Policies: Encourage policymakers to enact more robust measures to ensure gender pay equity, knowing that constitutional backing exists.

    Limitations

    The ERA itself is not a specific law prohibiting pay discrimination. It provides a constitutional guarantee of equality, which would enhance but not replace existing statutes like the Equal Pay Act. Practical enforcement would still depend on specific legislation, judicial interpretation, and implementation of workplace policies.

    In summary, the ERA would not directly outlaw unequal pay but would create a stronger constitutional framework for addressing and remedying gender-based pay disparities.

27. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 5:07PM UTC

    ERA law or not women are paid less than men in many cases. If the positions were exactly the same and the male said how much he made and that’s how the OP found out, it’s a he said she said. This battle has not been won by women and there is a hill to climb. I know a male that is paid higher than me and the person who gave the increase is a female. So it’s not males giving males higher salaries. Did I go to bat? I never mentioned the person but I went to bat with data, and proof. Did it work? No! What works is giving a notice and being asked to stay for more money. How fked up is this? This happened to a colleague who battled for a year. Once they gave notice did it wake management who somehow found money. The person declined. I think there must be a better way for women to battle our salaries such they are equal but it’s a long hill to climb.

28. Laura BloomJanuary 21,2025 at 3:00AM UTC

    I believe Biden passed it on his last days in office. Thank you for highlighting how it might benefit everyday work life.

29. TriciaJanuary 20,2025 at 2:58PM UTC

    All the comments on here have valuable information. I would be cautious in bringing up compensation to HR or your manager.

    i didn’t see how you obtained this information of difference in pay. Most companies keep compensation confidential and even though it isn’t against the law to talk with colleagues about salaries, it could possibly raise some red flags to HR about how you found out this information.

    I agree with the one comment that you could approach your boss to possibly be compensated for taking on another employee. Or even look into how you could progress with your career within your company.

    You don’t want to lose your job, especially if you like where you work and like what you do. It can take months to find a new job. It’s not fun looking and competing for jobs right now.

    If you aren’t happy, do some research, apply for jobs while you have a job and try not to compare apples to oranges or even Fuji apples to Granny apples. They are different, just as the same between you and your colleague.

    Keep your chin up, think about what you want and what matters most to you. Best of luck ?

30. AnonymousJanuary 20,2025 at 7:04PM UTC

    Sales is paid for revenue generation and taking the risks. Everything they do is measured by how much they bring in. I hope he’s making more than you. Where it gets nasty is when you have seasoned sales people who have been generating revenue for the company and have an ok base salary, but newbies are hired in at much higher salaries. Thats the nasty part. OR when the sales teams comp plans are changed and their incomes are negatively impacted, happens all the time. Be a partner to your sales people and other colleagues instead of counting other people’s money. You will enjoy your job so much more.

31. AnonymousJanuary 21,2025 at 2:31PM UTC

    ridiculous advice. if what you say is to be considered, then in that model, marketing's base should be higher than sales. and it usually is.

32. Laura BloomJanuary 21,2025 at 2:55AM UTC

    Wow good question. As much as people trash California their progressiveness can be a lifesaver. In California now HR is suppose to advertise how much a job pays, so it’s not a forbidden secret anymore. Also, it’s illegal to discriminate based on gender so there’s a state agency that I would consult with, confidentially, about your options in this situation. It helps when the system supports you. Actually there are two state agencies ( I will try to include them in this post) one for public agencies and one for private agencies. Let’s not normalize discrimination. I would look to find the equivalent in yr state or consult with legal aid. (National Labor Relations Board, Federal Labor Relations Authority)

33. AnonymousJanuary 21,2025 at 2:13PM UTC

    Being in HR, this is what I would advise.

    If all what you said is true (in terms of experience/responsibilities) speak with your manager and let them know that you are aware of a pay discrepancy, and you would like to see if the gap can be closed. I wouldn't push too hard on it, and here is why...if you bring up your concern nicely their actions will let you know what they think of you. If they don't offer to correct it and have you matching, then consider looking elsewhere. If they act different, apologize and fix your pay immediately, then they value you. But don't let emotions and frustration pop up because they will use that as an excuse of exactly why you don't need an increase.

34. k PerssonJanuary 22,2025 at 1:21PM UTC

    Imo marketing and sales are complimentary so not to possible to compare the two, so that might be part of the issue, and less an gender issue,

    Sales brings in the actual dollar, marketing does the preparing, research, projekt planning, and the aftermarket, social media, connections and image management, and ton of other things, but technically not closing deals.

35. AnonymousJanuary 22,2025 at 6:22PM UTC

    This is a very valid point.

36. AnonymousJanuary 21,2025 at 2:30PM UTC

    Sales compensation is treated differently than other areas so I don’t think you can really compare your position with the other person. The best yardstick is your position vs. the industry as a whole.

37. AnonymousJanuary 22,2025 at 5:55AM UTC

    Leave, they never change. Unfortunately you have to find a company that values you, and those aren't many. At least if you leave you can make.15 to 30 percent because the outside candidate is worth more than the internal.

38. RCJanuary 22,2025 at 6:00AM UTC

    Wow - sucks to be her, I guess? Whether their identical is beside point, one can't exist without the other. And.its clear that she has responsibilities.

39. AnonymousJanuary 22,2025 at 1:21PM UTC

    I don’t understand how this is the same exact role if you are marketing by and he is sales? Sales and revenue of the company roles will always be a little higher with more incentive based pay.

    Also, instead of spiraling and having your blood boil. Take control of how you respond. Meaning, take a breath, remain calm, and just go address your concerns and talk to your company about this information. This is a good opportunity for you to work on your negotiation skills too. You accepted the role and the comp, you could have negotiated more in the beginning. Maybe he did. Don’t make assumptions on what your original aka and his original ask was. Focus on you. Someone will always make more, another company will always pay you more, etc. Do you feel fairly compensated based on the role and pay range for that role? Pay equity does not always mean exactly the same amount, there are ranges and KPI’s, variable amounts, etc that all have to be looked at. Look at your own performance, are you a great leader, what is the performance of your team, etc. and take that info into a professional conversation about your compensation with what you would like the solution to be.

40. AnonymousJanuary 22,2025 at 1:28PM UTC

    Are you in California? California has an equal pay law that is based on duties not title that would make this illegal. Many other states also have similar laws. I suggest you document the information, where you found it and how and get thee to a lawyer. Do this before talking to your company or hr, because usually its an excuse to start trying to find reasons to fire you because you become a legal liability as soon as you start talking about pay issues based on gender. All the being nice to a company that already proved they dont value your impact does is give them a lead to finding a way to offload you. The lawyer will likely want you to email and ask for fair treatment but its part of documenting unfair treatment. Lawyer first, then advocate second and report to your local labor relations third.

41. AnonymousJanuary 22,2025 at 1:30PM UTC

    Lawyer.

42. Pamela ReddingJanuary 22,2025 at 2:04PM UTC

    Use the wording that they are using in their documents and put what you have e discovered in a spreadsheet. Then send it HR with a note something like; you see these two things don't match and would like to discuss it.

    Good luck

43. Deb AllenJanuary 22,2025 at 2:22PM UTC

    I agree with others that Sales=Revenue and therefore has different targets, and the incentive (bonus or commissions, etc) can be very different even if the levels of the position are the same. Equal in this case really only refers to where you report to and what your boss expects you to deliver. I would recommend taking a deep breath, or maybe 2. Then try talking to colleagues outside of your current company who might have a take on this subject, but do not go running to HR as they will want to know how you know, and your position and brand will suffer as a result.

44. GDMJanuary 22,2025 at 5:42PM UTC

    This does sound unfair for sure. Have you ever spoken to your boss/manager about this situation? Keep in mind you still may want to look for another job in case you don't get the answer your looking for.

    How did you find out that he makes more than you?

    Even though you were hired at the same time, did he come to this company with more experience and maybe they rewarded him that?

45. Karin MayerJanuary 22,2025 at 6:09PM UTC

    Your next move should be well thought out and not done out of frustration or emotion. Consider working with someone who is independent and can help you see the issue from several sides before approaching your boss/HR. I've been through this personally and I have also coached many women on how and when to negotiate. Unfortunately, men are more aggressive at negotiating - even to the point of walking away from a job offer and us women like to be team players and assume that we'll be rewarded for our hard work. It sucks but there is hope.

46. AnonymousJanuary 23,2025 at 1:40AM UTC

    Do not keep your mouth shut. Speak up, but...do it in a way that is professional and clear and shows the discrepancies as out of line with equity and fairness. Base it on qualifications and have them show you why they believe they got things wrong and as them to fix this. Decline to take on other reports until they do. If you do not get remediated then shop around.

47. Rosa GoesJanuary 23,2025 at 9:37PM UTC

    If they are asking you to take on another direct report, it may be an opportunity to discuss a bump in pay, maybe match your counterpart's bonus. Don't tell them what you know, or about your male counterpart, just ask for those amounts. You are in a perfect position to ask for what you want. Good luck to you!

48. Michele DarleyJanuary 27,2025 at 2:32PM UTC

    This happened to me at a previous company. I went to my boss calmly asked her to help me understand how something like this could happen and nd when would they be rectifying it.

    I got a pretty big increase immediately because it is quite discriminatory ( I used that wording). My company did try to help. Good luck!