I am one of two final candidates for a director level role.

Anonymous

April 30,2022 at 3:49PM UTC

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I am one of two final candidates for a director level role. My main red flag or issue of the many interviews I went through was the theme kept coming up: the leadership team is challenged (disorganized) because everyone works on everything all the time and they make all decisions together. They say the CEO is always the tie breaker but he said himself it’s hard for him to say no. So at my last interview it was confirmed that a decision would be made by the end of the week. At the end of the week I got a note that said they were so busy they were not able to make a final decision and they asked me to wait another week. This type of All Cooks in the Kitchen management style is going to drive me crazy, but otherwise it is a good fit and good money. Any advice if I do eventually get the role?

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AnonymousApril 30,2022 at 4:17PM UTC
I feel where you're coming from, and I too would be concerned.
It's as if they don't allow anyone to make decisions on their own... in favor of a "consensus" approach. This feels like a very, very "rigid democratic or participative leadership style"
This may not be a very good thing, and the greatest challenge with that is: this leadership style has the potential to be inefficient and costly as it takes a long time to organize big group discussions, obtain ideas and feedback, discuss possible outcomes and communicate decisions (as viewed by Indeed Editorial Team, Dec 2021)
Some questions to get answers to include:
1) As a director, will you be able to make decisions pertaining to your team or process(es) on your own without "leadership team concensus"
2) How soon/in what circumstances (if you will be allowed) will you be trusted to make decisions on your own?
3) Will your decisons be second-guessed - privately or publicly, behind your back or in your presence?
This is something that could grow and lead to a uncomfortable existence in that role.
AnonymousApril 30,2022 at 6:19PM UTC
Yes - my strong advice is not to accept.
My current role involves this type of management/"team" style - it's brutal when you're in it. Boundaries are so blurred that you'll find your decisions blocked on subjects on which you are the expert and others have 0 knowledge about. You will somehow become subordinate to these opinions because this illogical style is supported by upper leadership.
These types of operations have poor definitions of roles and responsibilities, there will be favoritism and in crowd vs out crowd dynamics, and it is likely you will find yourself fruitlessly trying to manage the performance of your area while co workers derail your efforts.
There will be essential work that will go undone, and non essential work that will be repeated on a loop. It is maddening and defies logic.
A major component of your role will involve managing drama. Even with deft political skills, accomplishing what needs to be done will eventually become a regular struggle. I've watched high performing Directors/Sr Directors leave in record time due to these dynamics.
AnonymousMay 1,2022 at 6:59PM UTC
Oh yes. Been there. Suffered that.
Sabrina RahmanApril 30,2022 at 6:26PM UTC
12-sided dice.
This is my least helpful bit of advice of all the posts I have made on FairyGodBoss to-date.
However, it might just work.
AnonymousApril 30,2022 at 7:36PM UTC
What are you looking to get out of the role? If the benefits are in line with your interests can you take on the role to get the director experience and strive to stay afloat the negative aspects of the decision making issues that bother you? Then move on when you are ready and with a built network and experience.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistApril 30,2022 at 9:37PM UTC
I'm not really sure how you can say something is a "good fit" except for the basic way pretty much every decision will be made.
That would seem to be central to the way the company is run, how effective you will be in your job and what the company culture is.
I recommend you take money out of the picture and then take another look - with a more critical, honest with yourself eye - and see if it's still a good fit.
Personally, that sounds like a nightmare to me.
AnonymousMay 1,2022 at 6:57PM UTC
Great idea! I don't think I could hang around with a group of friends that takes hours to decide where to eat before taking in a movie. I'd starve and never see any movies.
AnonymousMay 2,2022 at 2:44PM UTC
Yes, it does sound like a nightmare but so is endless job searching. The task, role and duties are a fit but not the environment. It seems that there are no great jobs, so settling is the next, best option.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistMay 2,2022 at 3:56PM UTC
I'm not sure if you're the original poster or not but this doesn't sound like a position that would end my job search.
This sounds like the kind of situation that could lead to one of the posts we see so many of on here "so I recently accepted a new position and it's not a fit for me. Is it too soon to start looking for a new job?"
This issue is central to how the company is run and how successful someone could be in that role.
RiaMay 3,2022 at 1:49PM UTC
Well said
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 4:50PM UTC
I feel you and am there. I am the post writer for "strongly recommend against". I took this role to end endless job searching.
My bank account definitely thanked me. Only you know your whole situation and what difficulties you can shoulder. Being jobless is also stressful.
There is no easy answer. For me, I now feel stuck. Haven't found a healthier job, don't know how much longer I will last in the current role. To use this role as a stepping stone, you'll need to be in it at least a year and depending on your specialty, escape with your reputation intact. Not all your days will be bad of course. If you get and accept the job, take it VERY slowly. Prioritize YOU. What do you need to get a positive/neutral recommendation? What do you need to do to get through your days?
Julie Chatman, MBA, CISMApril 30,2022 at 11:22PM UTC
The interview phase is like the dating phase - people put their best foot forward.
If this is their best foot, do you want to work on this team?
AnonymousMay 1,2022 at 7:19AM UTC
Don’t take the role. These organisations will eventually break your spirit.
AnonymousMay 2,2022 at 2:42PM UTC
That’s my gut but my bank account is screaming: Just Keep Smiling.
AnonymousMay 1,2022 at 6:56PM UTC
If you want to get things done, this is not the place for you. I used to be at the bottom of a food-chain infested with indecisive micromanagers. I could never get approval for my projects without a very long wait (if at all) and spent a lot of time watching YouTube and reading Fairygodboss posts.
AnonymousMay 2,2022 at 2:41PM UTC
Funny but I gear you. I am trying not to stress out because it may be for nothing in the end. Thank you.
Vanda LeeMay 2,2022 at 3:34PM UTC
Just my thoughts...I currently work for a fine director example of indecisiveness, no follow thru and poor directions...but it's filled with an assistant director that is awesome so we struggle but get things accomplished...sometimes just by not asking permission. Take the job with these possible issues in mind & a mindset of worst case expectations. It may turn out better than you think, but keep looking for jobs in the mean time. I'm or I should say we-the assistant and I are building a plan to report our director's poor performance to her leader and how we as a team can correct the issues that have had no action against them due to her indecisiveness. Good luck!
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:47PM UTC
What is amp?
Vanda LeeMay 3,2022 at 9:53PM UTC
when you type the ampersand instead of and it puts that in the text for some reason. &
AnonymousMay 2,2022 at 3:40PM UTC
This is a hard decision and I hate to be a contrarian, but I have an issue with the advice to never take a job if there are red flags because you will only end up being miserable. I have been mostly employed since I was 13 and I’m 50. I have not gone through a single job interview process where I did not see red flags in the beginning. If it was a happy, nice and easy process, it ended up being an extremely toxic environment. If I followed the standard advice, I would have never worked a day in my life. I have had to work for money, so finding a great fit was always second to buying food. I wish the world was full of good jobs but the reality is companies are demanding, disorganized and often disloyal. It is stressful and unfair but better to face reality. At least you know what you are getting. Best of luck! Sincerely, I do hope it’s simply irritating and not too stressful.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:58PM UTC
I'm going to agree with you. I just started a new job last week and I knew from the interview process that things were not going to be hunky dory and smooth sailing from the get go. A lot of change, a lot of new people in the organization (for example, I started last week and I have onboarded nearly a half dozen senior leaders in the last couple of days). Everyone was completely honest with me during the interview process which I definitely appreciated...I knew what I was getting into and was so appreciative nothing was sugar coated. My prior position I lasted not quite a year and a half. Interview process was smooth sailing, everything was presented as awesome, they even sold me on a pay cut to take the position (going from for-profit to non-profit). While I try to never regret anything...in hindsight...that was the wrong career move.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 4:53PM UTC
how do you recommend parsing out "absolute nos" to this may be reasonably toxic?
I would sincerely love advice on this. I do agree, on the interview trail now, and it is impossible not to find a workplace that raises several flags.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 6:02PM UTC
I think you have to understand what your tolerance level is. What are your hard nos, not gonna do that kinda thing.
AnonymousMay 2,2022 at 8:04PM UTC
Don’t. You already know why.
Rachel BulkoMay 3,2022 at 12:23PM UTC
Don’t do it- trust your gut and keep looking. There are other places with clear boundaries expressed for each role, which is what you will need to stay sane. I know I would continue searching if I were in your shoes.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 12:28PM UTC
Take it you want to be the champion to bring and teach decision making strategies (after confirming they are fet up with themselves). Otherwise, I'd go elsewhere.
GirlBossanova934974May 3,2022 at 12:31PM UTC
Don't! And no, it doesn't look like there is a good fit either. I am currently working for an outfit like this. The problem is priorities. They change all the time. Any project slated to go on longer than a few weeks always get pushed back....Back, back, and back. There are so many more meetings to discuss the previous meeting. The head cheese keeps talking up his desire to win....Win what and how? For me, the salary and benefits are too good to pass up for my current role. I have a side hustle where I can do what I want!
Sofija BogevaMay 3,2022 at 12:33PM UTC
keep looking, usually when they say that either they have found a better one and just want to be nice
Maggie StoneMay 3,2022 at 12:45PM UTC
I think a good rule of thumb is to keep looking until you have a written offer. I would definitely keep looking. Let this one go for the time being and you can make a decision if and when you have an offer on the table. Hoping your dream job comes up in the meantime.
Deborah MichaliszynMay 3,2022 at 12:45PM UTC
If you can pitch an idea of maybe a RUBRIC for a strategic plan in prioritization. This way you can set up a meeting to put the priorities into quadrants. You'd have to think about those but I'd either look at a Vision Investment style, where something can have these quadrants: meet Vision Investment – the long term vision, Ideal – closely match vision with short term benefits and can be done now, Avoid It – poor fit and risk, Vision Debt – bring in revenue but poor fit for vision....Or maybe: a Business Value where the rubric goes from high value high complexity, High value low complexity, low value low complexity, to low value high complexity....If you can pitch that and set up a session, or a few sessions where you can put them in quadrants, then you can draw up a Strategic plan.
Susan KuhnMay 3,2022 at 12:59PM UTC
first, take off the rose colored glasses so you can see clearly.
Why don't you use the week to ask a question about how they would fit you into a group decision making process as a new director level employee? Take very seriously how the people you ask, ideally the ceo, answers. And of course, you will need to ask more than one person. And ask yourself whether you can adapt to their culture. Be very honest with yourself.
Spoken from personal experience.
TKMay 3,2022 at 1:01PM UTC
agree with OPs, the red flags caught your attention for a reason. i've been in a similar position where i didn't have the authority to make a decision and the execs changed their minds quite often. it got frustrating and you can't re-train execs.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:02PM UTC
Do not ignore the red flags, I ignored them before and regret it. Do you really want to have to run all decisions through everyone. If you really can't walk away address how ideally you would like to make decisions. Perhaps they exaggerated and only run major decisions through lots of people. I can't imagine that every decision is a group thing. Culture matters and best to try for the right fit. Can you flex to fit this culture?
Angelique HamiltonMay 3,2022 at 1:04PM UTC
You must make the best decision for yourself. One that offers excellent opportunities for advancement, growth, and contribution. Disorganization is caused by a lack of leadership and indecisiveness. Perhaps this is the organization where your abilities will shine the brightest. Your overall mental health is also critical. Don't give it up for a higher-level position or company. Please keep looking for other opportunities until you have landed the job. Good luck!
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:06PM UTC
If you are offered the role, could you ask to informally speak to one or two people who would be colleagues to gain their perspective of how this plays out before accepting the role? The way you frame it will be key though so it's tricky!
MelissaMay 3,2022 at 1:10PM UTC
At least you know what you are walking into! Setting youir expectations will help you deal with the chaos and perhaps your skill set is just what they are looking for. That said, experience at a director level will help you jump into another similar role if need be. Do keep exploring other opportunities while you wait. Good luck!
Robert PearceMay 3,2022 at 1:25PM UTC
You need a spokes person from the team to come with you with solutions and not the questions. You will then make the final decision whether to proceed full speed or to trial it. Then the spokesperson can give the feedback to the to team on what you decided. You will need regular meetings with the spokesperson for updates and any issues.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:29PM UTC
I was where you were about 6 months ago. To me it was such a red flag I decided it wasn’t worth pursuing the role any further. It would have been impossible to change to culture they had lived with for so long and I ultimately knew I could not be happy working under those conditions. My advice is think long and hard before taking it knowing these red flags. Is the money worth it if you come home frustrated beyond belief every night?
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:40PM UTC
I say wait it out to get the offer. Once you get the offer ask to speak to someone on the team that will help give/navigate about the dynamics of the leadership team. I had a similar experience. I eventually got to speak to one of the director’s who was the person who raised a huge red flag to me during the interviews process. Long story short I took a leap of faith, took the job. And in my first week I knew it was not gonna last, this type of culture can’t be changed, you either come in and join them or leave. It was a corporate services firm who had this ‘flair’ of changing the environment into a ‘start up’ kind of vibe. Everything was chaotic, too many ideas, unmanageable initiatives, inconsistent flow of communication. And as a newbie it’s already challenging keeping track with the way things are done. This to me was a disaster. And eventually one of the reasons I had left.
KileyMay 4,2022 at 8:57AM UTC
I can relate to this and in the end sat it out before leaving after a few months. Was too stressful and eratic. Now in a new role with slightly similar dynamics but more manageable. I have learned to let go of the things I cannot influence or change, and focus on the things I can.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:41PM UTC
If the "All Cooks in the Kitchen" management style would drive you crazy (as it would me) then its absolutely NOT a good fit, regardless of the money.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 1:45PM UTC
I don't think we're allowed to self promote. You offered no advice, seems like you're only on here to sell your book.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 3:14PM UTC
Honestly, you need to decide if this is how you can work and it would be enjoyable and fulfilling or if it wouldn't be the right fit for you.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 4:03PM UTC
I have been on both sides of this coin. At my previous job, our CEO was a wienie who didn't want to be responsible for any decisions so everything was decided by the ELT comprised of 8 people in total. This severely limited the ability of any decisions to be made in under 4-6 months time. We lost a lot of good job candidates when it came to hiring decisions because of this dysfunctional management style. As a manager in that position, it frustrated me to the point of burnout that I wasn't able to make decisions for my team without getting the blessing of this 8 Headed Monster who could never agree on anything from which copiers we bought to who they should offer the CFO position to. I left that situation without another job since I hit the wall of being able to deal with it. On the flip side, my current job also appears to function in this same way and it took them 4 months from the time I sent in my resume to the time I started 1st day because they had to get a rather large group of people to "sign off" on choosing me for the role. However, now that I am in this role, it isn't that type of situation for all decisions. I am able to connect one on one with my supervisor to work on decisions together and this is the best job I have ever had in 25 years of working. My point is that it may appear that their "group decisions" model will impact your job day to day should you receive an offer and accept, but it may not and you could miss out on a good situation by judging only 1 angle of their corporate structure. Trust your instinct and if it says this is a red flag then don't ignore that inner voice but if it says that this may be a hang up related to the hiring process only, consider accepting.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 4:30PM UTC
Would be very interested to know if there was a type of culture question that you asked to determine if new role would not be as dysfunctional or was it just luck? In a similar situation. Thanks!
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 6:43PM UTC
Thank you!!
Arlene Frances Gottardo (Bryak)May 3,2022 at 4:22PM UTC
Don’t worry- It sounds like a good group to ‘hitch your wagon to’! Additionally, I get the feeling you like what’s being offered. Imagine that you already have the job- How nice that will be!
Cortney SpencerMay 3,2022 at 4:30PM UTC
Let me start by saying, "There is no perfect job" because that's important to remember. This is corporate America, not the peace corps. I currently have an "All cooks in the kitchen" Director role and I can tell you first hand that I prefer it to my old job where all the decisions were made for me, behind closed doors in a 1950's Mad-men era white male management establishment. Too much Democracy is challenging, but it's still Democracy.
AnonymousMay 3,2022 at 6:42PM UTC
Great points! Thank you!
KileyMay 4,2022 at 8:52AM UTC
Agree!
SamanthaMay 3,2022 at 6:15PM UTC
There are a lot of comments so I don’t know if this has already been said. But I feel like if this problem is bugging you now, it’s really going to bother you when you’re there
tiffany birchMay 3,2022 at 7:23PM UTC
Sometimes, many voices have a positive outcome. Go with the flow since you feel it is a good fit and good money.
Liz MilneMay 3,2022 at 10:26PM UTC
Make a case for changing that all-hands-on-deck policy, and put a clear structure in place. Yes, you might get some mavericks who play above and below their position, and that's fine, but even they will probably feel happier for knowing exactly where they fit in, and the CEO won't be on the hook for making nearly half the company unhappy each time he picks a side...
AnonymousMay 4,2022 at 1:22AM UTC
That whole process sounds kind of weird to me and gives me a bad vibe. I don't think it would be at the job for
AnonymousMay 4,2022 at 1:26AM UTC
I don't like it at all when prospective employers tell you that they've got it narrowed down to two people and oh by the way, you're going to have to wait another week for our decision. At that point I'm ready to say forget it... hire the other person. You see, I don't need to know what and who I'm up against and neither do the other candidates. I guess we're all supposed to hold our breath and be excited that you might pick me me me!??? This whole process feels like a circus to me and I feel like this is what you would be working with all the time. I would not want to work in a place like that. Their process is juvenile
Kelly Harman-SeversonMay 4,2022 at 2:04AM UTC
Run, don’t walk. There will be better opportunities. Just like relationships, if you think that you can change the situation or person, you cannot.
AnonymousMay 4,2022 at 2:36PM UTC
For the sake of your own sanity please do not work for this organization… It may be a good fit and good money but eventually it will burn you out…
AnonymousMay 4,2022 at 2:41PM UTC
Especially with a CEO who can’t make up their mind
AnonymousMay 5,2022 at 12:06AM UTC
Run girl, run!This is them showing you their true colors. I’ve made this mistake and learned the hard way. Chaos in your daily work life is never worth the money!