Seeking advice on next steps…

Seeking advice on next steps…

I was abruptly let go from my position yesterday after returning from a week of (approved) PTO. Prior to going OOO, I escalated - for the 3rd time - concerns about my direct supervisor, his behavior, and his actions/leadership style to the CEO (his direct superior). Keep note this is a small company and there is no HR for [this] unit, but the company falls under a larger operational/ownership umbrella that does have an HR, just not accessible to us.

During all 3 escalations, I was told “it would be handled” and that he understands and agrees that this person is difficult and that I’m not the first to experience or report this type of behavior. Nothing came of it - other than me being terminated. My direct supervisor, whom I raised the concerns about, was part of the 3 individuals who made the decision to end my employment. I was not given an answer, but simply told by law, they did not have to disclose the reason for termination - even thought there “was a reason” and that “this was the end of the conversation, period.” The entire process from start to finish was just slightly less than 5 minutes, and took place after 4 hours of work.

I have never been written up or told that my work or my behavior was not meeting expectations. I have never been placed on a PIP, nor have I ever had an evaluation, even though I requested it multiple times through my short 7mo of employment. I was a Senior Director with over 15 years of experience.

I consistently advocated for my direct reports - attempting to get them resources to better support them in their roles and professional development, and was always told we didn’t have the money. But then I would constantly be reminded that their performance was my responsibility and that I was held 100% accountable for them. Essentially, I was doing the work of approximately 6 people.

I was also reminded constantly that my bonus, pay increases, and success at the company was in “his hands” and that if he didn’t look good, then I wouldn’t look good. He would also assign me projects (like cost analysis, gap analysis, etc) to be completed by the end of the day and then would tell me that I didn’t manage my time appropriately if I couldn’t deliver the same day. Despite pushing through, he took the work and passed it off as his own - often receiving merits and nods from the superiors to delivering a job “well done”. I was always told to be “seen and never heard” and that I would never please the powers above, so it was not even worth trying.

I also have outstanding business expenses ( a couple thousand dollars) that has not been reimbursed to me that is now 2 payment cycles overdue from the date I was told they would be paid out. When I received my termination notice, I demanded that I receive that money by the end of the week, and for them to advise how I should return my equipment (I am the ONLY remote employee, which was a contingency of my accepting their employment offer). They have yet to respond to my request,

though my term letter indicates that the 2 week severance pay, plus any benefit payout, that they will provide in lieu of accepting my notice, will not be given until equipment is returned. Again, I did not give notice, I was terminated - so I feel this wording in blatantly incorrect given the situation. And, I am afraid they will just say they never received my equipment and I will be financially penalized for such.

The structure of the organization included 2 direct reports (1 male, 1 female); another female director who has also validated and expressed concerns to the degree that she was no longer reporting to him, and his boss (the CEO, also male).

I’m at a complete loss here, as I have never been terminated from a position and have always received good reviews, promotions, etc. I work hard - even on vacations, through dinners, and even at the expense of my personal time. I always showed up accordingly and went above and beyond for my staff. I am a salaried employee who could have easily doubled my income if working hourly. I am a PhD candidate in a difficult field and work with world- renowned and recognized individuals within their fields. My letters of recommendation match the execution of my work.

Outside of discussions with legal, does anyone have any other suggestions of how to navigate this?

Thank you so much!

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  1. Anonymous

    I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds incredibly frustrating - but also sounds like you just left a very toxic environment with your immediate supervisor. What he did by taking credit isn't illegal but it's a BS move plain and simple. There are laws in place to protect employees, I'm not sure where you are located but it really sounds like you need to consult an attorney. Having no notice (no cause), not being reimbursed and then being asked to provide a letter of resignation when you were fired, harassment, etc etc. Not only will this experience impact any recommendations (future ability to obtain work), but also your ability to collect unemployment. Really, I am truly sorry you're on the receiving end of such toxicity. Good luck!

  2. Anonymous

    Consider that senior leadership decided they couldn't have both of you and he was less replaceable. This is always the potential downside of escalating a leader. Allow yourself some time to decompress and then move on.

  3. Anonymous

    The “be seen and not heard” comment would have had me running for the door. Sounds like you are much better off without them! I would consult an employment attorney and bring as much evidence as you have and see if you have a case. Be sure to also ask for damages that cover your legal fees. Best wishes for finding a healthier environment!

  4. Anonymous

    Thank you!
    There are, unfortunately, many documented incidents of this type of jargon being used - including that I best not “cross” the uppers and that I can’t make eye contact with certain people. I reported this immediately and was told that “he’s just being ridiculous and has his own ego issues”. In December though, it was evident that I had stirred the pot somehow, as the COO of the main umbrella organization decided to drop in on a Monday admin meeting and did nothing but sit there and stare me down without blinking… for the whole hour… it was honestly quite impressive, but also disturbing. Luckily, I also have it all on video.

  5. Anonymous

    To get things resolved, return your equipment with an itemized letter dated today and sent via FEDEX or UPS requiring a signature. You'll need a receipt to prove it was signed for.

    As for your outstanding expenses, send a letter itemizing your expenses with a deadline for payment. This demand letter should include copies of your receipts and any permissions you received to incur these reimbursable expenses and copies of your expense reports.

    As for your termination, if you live in an "at-will state, your employer is not obligated to give you a reason for termination. They may let you go for any reason and they do not have to discuss it with you. Unless it's based on illegal termination under the law such as discrimination, you may not file a claim based on wrongful termination.

    Finally, you resume, credentials and professional references have little to do with your legal standing. So I'm afraid your letters of recommendation will not help you.

    Unfortunately this situation happens more than anyone cares to admit. It's best to wrap up the lose ends asap, collect you expenses and severance and move forward.

    This was clearly not your fault but it can emotionally wreck your life if you allow it to

    I wish you well.

  6. Anonymous

    she is the employee. The company is obligated to pay and provide the means for work equipment to be returned. She just has to document it for her records in case of any retaliation on their end.

  7. Anonymous

    I'm always looking to make things easiest and the least stressful for myself. It's $30 to send 10 lbs via ground with insurance. I'm wouldn't risk my peace of mind and getting resolution so I can move towards severance and reimbursement of my expenses.

    Short term solutions to long term rewards. That's how I have learned to succeed.

  8. Kimberly Johnson

    Yes this!!!!!!!

  9. Anonymous

    I understand your stance on this, I guess 30 is nothing to one person while it's a lot to another and I feel that I'm the latter. As 30 to me can do wonders when grocery shopping and 30 dollars to a company is equivalent to them losing a dollar. It means nothing to them to do so and they can and have the resources to quickly carry out the action.

  10. Anonymous

    Thank you - appreciate your response.

  11. Anonymous

    Wow, reading this was chilling as not only could I empathize but am shocked that even on a C suite level that this type of unprofessional and toxic behaviors still permit.

    Making me to believe that no one is safe and looking at the fact that there is more of a strong need to have fair labor laws revisited and updated on a state level. As there seems to be little to no recourse one can do when placed in these situations except for lick their wounds, see if the information that they have collected is enough to warrant a sure win in legal action, and try move on which sounds all so cruel.

    Im sorry, you experienced this, I can empathize with how degrading it can feel to be fired so abruptly without a moment's notice making all of ones hard work ethic they've poured into a company feel like it was all for naught.

    Now, to reply to specific details shared in your experience such as, you not receiving your final works pay. It is illegal within the US for any employer to withhold an employee's pay and needs to be paid on the date of termination or scheduled payday. So the fact that they did not think it through before sending you written documentation that they are going to withhold the funds until equipment is returned which you stated, you never received any type of notice to do this given that you were on PTO is baffling. Its like they're begging to be sued...

    Hmmm, now that I think about it, I wonder if that was their indirect way of trying to get you to concede to stating that you quit so you can receive the two weeks' severance and benefits bein. As opposed to pushing back and justifiably correcting them that you were in fact fired. Since once you are officially fired on paper this would allow you to be entitled to receive unemployment that, although may take up to month to finalize, will allow you financial means to support yourself for longer as you strive to regain employment elsewhere. And given the current job market, you just might need it..... then maybe things aren't as stark within the job market for those in senior positions. As it is currently for entry - mid levels job seekers.
    So what do you want to do? Pushback and state that you were in fact fired? Or give into their subtly veiled separation notice agreement they're presenting with the terms of your last pay, two weeks' severance pay, and benefits?

    As for them stating that you need to return your equipment, you do but they MUST and are OBLIGATED to provide you with the means to do. That means they need to confirm your address, if need be, to set up courier services to pick up and return the work equipment back. While you simply need to keep a record of it. Nothing more or less.

    Do you have documentation to confirm that you were in fact on PTO? If so, keeping documentation supporting this is paramount. Especially if and when you reach out to be succinct in your approach to them to clarify what took place e.g. you were terminated you didn't quit, the illegality surrounding funds, and their need to supply the means to return the provided work equipment.

    Wishing you all the best through this taxing situation. I hope whatever you decide that you are able bounce back and get placed with a company that values you and your contributions.

  12. Anonymous

    Thanks for the info.

    They did provide me with a return label, but only after my attorney demanded they do so. They have not answered in terms of repayment for expenses or the payout of severance; which I am actually pleased about - because accepting that would appear that I accept the “separation” as it’s defined in the term letter.

    Furthermore, I BCC’d myself (personal email) on the escalation emails, and one other proving that I did the work and he took credit for it, as well as another direct report’s escalation and explanation about her experiences with my superior. Those emails were confirmed in my personal email box, but are now missing. Of the 8 emails I sent, the 2 most damaging to the organization are now completely gone. It’s very concerning, and I’ve hired a forensic IT person to hunt down where those emails are.

    If the situation had not unfolded this way, and I was not missing [those] emails, I would consider this a dodged bullet.

  13. Anonymous

    when it comes to those two missing emails you shared. Did you, at any point during your employee tenure with the now former employer access your personal email using your work computer? Asking as they "may" have been able to access it using whatever management employee application software that is normally embedded within employee issued work computers. Sorry if my take comes off overly paranoid. It's just as someone who has been in that situation before and was unnerved by just how much oversight and access management can have over a work computer e.g. deleting browsing history remotely in real time, stripping emails that I BCC'd to myself for documentation resulting to me having to take pictures on my cellphone as an alternative,etc. I just wouldn't put anything past how underhanded a company will be to keep them from being accountable.

  14. Anonymous

    Take a deep breath, it's beyond frustrating and upsetting. But, have others said, you are dodging a bullet with this company. It's unfortunate what happened but you will be sooooooo thankful you are out of that toxic place. You will be OK and give yourself time to heal. Then, get right back out there and find a job with a great company that will treat you so much better. Also, you may not realize it now, but, that place is dysfunctional and you took a hit to your self esteem. Hopefully, you will get your expenses reimbursed. If not, which should not be the case, you may have options to deduct on tax return. Something tells me there is more to this that you don't even know. Cashflow issues? Lastly, believe in karma.. Trust me, what goes around comes around... Hang in there. You got this!

  15. Melissa Boillot, SHRM - SCP

    Depending on the state you live in, there may be a final pay law regarding when your final check must be paid to you. If your state doesn’t have a law on the books, you are still owed wages and if you don’t get them in a reasonable timeframe you can send a demand letter. An attorney’s name attached helps and can be done affordably, but you can also write this yourself. Even though this seems insurmountable at the present moment, you’ll land on your feet so just break all the actions you must take into small steps and take it one at a time.

  16. Bonnie Coventry

    I agree with Melissa on checking on what your state laws are with being separated from your position. Good luck!

  17. Terri Smith

    Unfortunately, your story is all too familiar, even in 2023. Your boss and leadership are still operating (and getting ahead) with their mid-century values. The reality is that many companies just don't like it when a woman speaks truth to power, even though research suggests that whistle blowers are often the most loyal and valuable employees. Move on. This organization doesn't deserve you. Seek legal advice only if you're willing to compartmentalize these events, as it will take energy to do so. Remain optimistic. Believe that you have a great future ahead and there are more progressive organizations becoming the norm.

  18. Anonymous

    Find a contingency lawyer, get all your documents and paystubs. find the BBB where you can file government level complaints about companies and they will press the company while keeping your info anonymous. I will say this to help protect others from all the BS we face on a daily basis. stop depending on corporate jobs to give you anything. find other avenues of incomes and you will always be set. im not saying go out there and just coast. im sayin take this time to find what you enjoy to do as a person and find a way to make money out of it. Do research on different ways to make passive income. its 2023 and trusting companies is a lack of self awareness at this point. unfornately! jobs pulling moves like this happen everyday. I once got fired for not wanting to work on my day off, I didnt do anything wrong I was like 16 lol. im now 31 and as you can clearly see it still happens. find a strategy and heal.

  19. Anonymous

    I agree with this except for the part about trusting companies. Sometimes we have no choice, and unfortunately everyone is not made to own their own businesses or earn passive income. Or they are in a field where they are not allowed by law to practice on their own, i.e. starting their own one or two person shop; they have to work for someone else. Not taking any firm's/boss's/company's crap is much easier said than done.

  20. Anonymous

    I get it and understand your perspective. it doesn't change or justify what it caters too and it doesn't change the harm its doing to the world. Also companies always have 100% the capability to be the change. companies do it every single day and some are just coming up now. The only people that made change in history didnt get comfortable they remained centered and didnt let the justification go. Also clearly when I stated do not coast, I also choose to add the passive income part so yeah... it meant only if you resonates with you. (not trying to argue because I love this forum and how much it helps and this is not the place for that but I clearly wrote certain things for a reason) But the clear and evident as day proof is that change is not just emotional, its physical. Dont get me wrong! I understand some generations had to eat alot of shit because it was the only way to grow. but it was still choice. Harriet Tubman and many others are pure example of that. things will only happen if you let it. we are making the change. We are in charge of the change!

  21. Anonymous

    Definitely seek legal advice. Sounds like retaliation. Have you documented any of your discussions with the CEO? What documentation do they have? Given that you have brought concerns more than once (hoping you documented) and there have been no issues with your performance, I think you have something. I'm not a legal expert though.

  22. Anonymous

    I have retained counsel. I have everything documented, including evidence of just basic communication styles and how the "tone" of emails can reiterate his behavior or position towards certain individuals.

  23. Stephanie Lekowski

    Make no further moves without legal counsel. If you can, take some time off the job hunt to let yourself heal. This boss is a bully and HR is enabling him. I'd say try to find out which other employees complained to HR but they'll probably want to stay out of it out of fear, Stockholm syndrome, etc. When you're ready to look for work try your best to do your homework on the firm re whether it's a good or even great place to work.

  24. Anonymous

    She said they do not have an HR. Only the parent company does, and they are not allowed to contact/ use them. However, this is why they need one in place.

  25. Anonymous

    Boy do they ever need an HR person. It is illegal to withhold pay in lieu of the return of equipment. Same for the expenses. If you have a copy of your employee handbook or anything that says they do reimburse and of their payroll cycles have that ready. You went there in good faith, be sure you let them know that and that your complaints were valid and per the law should have been investigated within 30 days. Contact your local EEOC office and file a formal complaint about not being paid. Additionally do contact the parent company and illuminate the situation to them. Do let them know that you will also be lawyering up. Contact your local legal referral firm and find an employment attorney who is on the plaintiffs side. Good luck, and frankly they seem like a company that is resistant to change, clearly you scratched a spot they did not want to go to, its good you got out of there before they ruined your reputation.

  26. Anonymous

    Are you sure about them not being able to withhold pay? Can they withhold payment for expenses and unused vacation?

  27. Anonymous

    Positive! and absolutely not! Every state has firm termination rules - for example in California you have to be paid immediately upon termination, or the company has to pay you interest for every day not paid. If you quit its 72 hours. That is the law. If you are working for a company that has accrued vacation and your pay stub shows it on there they owe you that money in the final check. Expenses are part of that as well.

  28. Vanda Lee

    When you send your equipment back - make an inventory list and send it signature required so that you have documentation that it was received and who in the organization signed for it.

  29. Anonymous

    I agree with the comments above. I was in that situation once as well. Make sure you document everything you can. Good luck!

  30. Anonymous

    You need to get an employment attorney. If you can't afford one, find your local pro bono legal office in town, or nearby, and make an appointment with them.

  31. Anonymous

    Ive retained counsel for this. It's going to be a long battle. These people are truly sinister and will do anything to silence people.

  32. Anonymous

    Good luck to you.

  33. Anonymous

    I think a good employment attorney can help you keep your expectations on track.

  34. Anonymous

    the time to get a lawyer involved is exactly when you first filed a complaint but a good attorney can order a cease and desist of this employer gives you any negative references on your job search. It’s no picnic to go through this and all the stress. Get a lawyer and see what can be done!

  35. Anonymous

    He is a monster boss. Nightmare boss. Omg! I would love to see you defeat this guy!

  36. Anonymous

    I'm so confused. You say you retained an attorney to represent you in this matter. What advice are you looking for here?

    I would take the advice of your attorney.

  37. Anonymous

    I am sorry this has happened to you. It sounds all to common and I've recently been through an ugly and unfair termination.

    Besides securing legal council which you've done, I might suggest also finding a counselor to help you close the book on this toxic experience. I've been looking for one myself, but haven't found the right one yet.

  38. Anonymous

    As a pre-Ph.D. candidate, consider that your extensive academic work might compete or take over the regular job. This might be obvious to supervisors even if you are not aware of it.

  39. Anonymous

    "I work hard - even on vacations, through dinners, and even at the expense of my personal time. I always showed up accordingly and went above and beyond for my staff."

    This is the kind of mindset that needs to change, in general. Going above and beyond is not a guarantee of any future promotions, and people should consider the reality that time does not wait for anyone. Your job is not your life (unless that's what you truly want), and you definitely don't want to miss out on things that are important to you.

  40. Michelle S.

    if I were you, I would go straight to glassdoor and every other online employment platform and leave a review. I would then apply for unemployment and start reaching out to all of your contacts and or find something else and then I would sit back and wait because it’s only a matter of time before everyone else also realizes that none of his work was his when you’re not there to do it.

    I’m so sorry that this happened to you but honestly, it sounds like a blessing. Maybe it doesn’t feel like it yet but if you can do the work of six people for that long and deal with all of that, you will go and be a rockstar anywhere else that might actually appreciate you.

    But don’t let them get away with it and not leave them reviews so other people know. And don’t mention him by name, but definitely allude to who he is and that he steals work and that he is a horrible supervisor and that you lost one salary but you also lost the job of six people. God help the next person. but also, you could file a letter with your state labor board, as well as with the HR that you didn’t have access to. And tell them your story. You always know it’s gonna be shady if they don’t have an HR department.

  41. Anonymous

    Make sure those social media reviews are anonymous.
    I wouldn’t allude to the specific employee too concretely because it’s a small world, and your accusations can come back to bite you.

  42. Anonymous

    Complaining about the boss to higher-ups never goes well. They literally value your boss more than they value you.

    I hope you can bounce back from this, and in the future be more circumspect about the way you handle things at work.

  43. Anonymous

    HR Manager here - Most states are "at will" so that either the employee or employer can end the employment relationship at any time for any reason that is not illegal. As far as your final salary payment, the different states have different rules, but many times it must be paid no later than on the next normal payday. Your expense reimbursement - that is crappy for them to withhold - you could try contacting your state's department or labor (or whatever it's called in your state). You were put in a bad position by poor management. Hopefully you will go on to better things and be happier once you're over this. Make sure to file for unemployment immediately, and it's always worth asking for additional severance. They can't legally hold your paycheck for their computer - not in any state. Once again your state department of labor is your friend. You don't even have to hire an attorney, just give them a call, and they should help you. Good luck.

  44. dona1bm

    Seek an attorney for wrongful termination.

  45. Anonymous

    Handle the legal end and move on.

    Feel free to take this position off your resume.

    If questioned about why you are unemployed/seeking other employment respond that you took a position that wasn’t represented accurately, so you resigned shortly afterward to find a job that was a better fit.

    I don’t necessarily see a wrongful termination suit as an option, unless you had a written contract that has been violated or unless you have been terminated on the basis of race, gender, religion, ethnicity, personal beliefs, sexual preference or (in certain cases) age.

    If you mounted a lawsuit, your company can counter that you were unable to work effectively with your manager. And if you work in an “at will” employment state, you can be fired for any reason, unless you are otherwise protected by law.

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