I'm new to negotiating salary in my job search.

8 Comments

1. Kristie WhiteJanuary 22,2022 at 7:39PM UTC

   First, I developed my negotiation skills as a business person. I wasn't skilled as an employee. Here's what I have learned about that negotiation.

   The first one to mention money loses the advantage. The recruiter will try to get the candidate to do it first so they know what they have to work with. But it is a filter. They want to know how low they can pay you or if you are out of their budget range. So I would avoid being the first to answer that question. The recruiter already knows what their hiring range is - so here's my response...

   Salary is only one component of my decision when I choose a new position. So while I expect something that is market competitive with the position, my experience and the responsibilities, I would like to have more information about the position, the company, expectations and the work environment before we talk about salary. Do you have a range for your budget?

   Ok, so now you are trying to shift the conversation so the recruiter sets the range. Once you have it, you need to know if your responsibilities are going to put you at the top of the range or the bottom. So here you dig into the questions about the role, try to speak with the hiring manager, ask if you can speak to a staff member (if the role gives you this much leverage, typically a higher paid role). Try to gain insight into the culture - do your research on the company, etc. Prepare yourself for what your ask is - then ask for it based on the scope of your role.

2. Ki LoJanuary 23,2022 at 3:15PM UTC

   Here's something I learn. You can say, "I'd like to know more about the position and responsibility before giving a number. What range were you thinking of in terms of compensation for this role?" This way you turn the conversation back on to the recruiter.

   If the recruiter is super adamant about you giving them a number, I'd say give him/her the high end of your range. For example, if you make 40K in your previous job and you're looking to make at least 60K in your next job, say something like, "Based on my experience and skills, I'm not looking for anything below 65K."

3. Julie EJanuary 23,2022 at 4:52PM UTC

   I do research on salary.com first to see what the market is paying for that position. Then when asked in the interview, I ask the recruiter for the salary range if it wasn't listed in the job posting before I give a number. If I have to give a number I throw out the highest one because you can always negotiate down but it's hard to negotiate up.

4. AnonymousJanuary 23,2022 at 5:03PM UTC

   I had a conversation about hiring with my friend - we are in two different industries.
   Her employer doesn't post salary range with a job posting, but does ask people to submit their salary with the application. When I have seen this I put in $0. From my friend's POV, this can put applications in the 'do not interview pile', but if you put in a number higher than what they can pay or plan to pay, they won't interview you either, because the company cannot meet your needs in a salary. The company also uses this as an indicator if the need to raise/adjust their internal salaries.

   If I was in an interview, like you are, I would agree get them to tell you the range first. You need to know all the responsibilities/expectations before talk numbers. Practice this conversation out loud, which will make it easier when it does occur. Another piece of advice is to 'stop talking' - I am guilty of trying to fill the awkward silence. The less you say the better, put the ball in their court. Agree give slightly higher than what you are going to settle for.

   Also if you can find out salaries for that company in advance you will have more objective data to have the conversation. If there is an online database, look up of the names of the people in your interview.

   My employer does post salary with job postings, and the closing date. I wish more job postings would have salary range and close date.

5. 60isthenew40January 23,2022 at 9:42PM UTC

   If you've gotten as far as an offer, then they want you and they want to make the arrangement mutually beneficial. They really don't want to have to go back to interviewing, it's a stressful process for them too. While it's only smart business to get the best person for the least money, most companies now recognize that this may give short-term gains but long-term losses. If they're getting you for a song and then you learn what you can from them and move onward and upward after only a year or two, they have to start all over again with the lengthy and expensive process of finding your replacement. Many are now recognizing that competitive pay benefits them in the long-run and are offering higher salaries - especially now that there seem to be fewer workers for open positions.

   However, let them do the hard work for you. Tell them you're aware of the market range (do your homework!), then tell them that you need to understand the responsibilities you'd be taking on plus the whole benefits package before you commit to a more solid figure. It's then back in their court and they will be in a position to try and woo you with all they have to offer you.

   One final thing I would stress - don't take or reject a job simply based on the salary if it's only within a few thousand/year of what you want. A job is so much more than a paycheck and all the money in the world isn't worth it if you're always stressed out from the workload, the problems that arise, the enviornment, your co-workers or clients, etc. Try and get the most that you can, but recognize that they MIGHT be in a position where they really are offering you their best and all the other non-salary perks and benefits will make it worth it. Also don't forget that EVERYTHING is negotiable, so don't just settle for a salary...a more flexible schedule, vesting in a 401K sooner, added health benefits, etc. are also on the table if you only ask. 

   At the end of the day, this is business, not personal, and unless you're being a jerk about it, they will appreciate that you are doing what any good businessperson should do - getting the best deal you possibly can. Good luck!

6. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistJanuary 24,2022 at 1:57AM UTC

   So, here's my two cents; I'm going to preface my answer with a reminder that this stuff is all my opinion - I'm sure you could ask 4 other people and get 4 other different opinions.

   And that while I am a recruiter, this is my answer on what I do as a candidate. I generally – about 95% of the time - discuss compensation on the first call with them. If I'm going to move forward, I really want to know what the comp is - it doesn't have to be one specific number but I want to make sure we're in the same ballpark. If I don't know the comp after the first call, it's probably because I've asked and they haven't told me. I always discuss comp on the first call with my own candidates.

   So, personally, my goal is not to either low ball or high ball myself. Money is important - there's plenty of places I could be doing volunteer work if I wanted to - but it's not the end all and be all for me. I do want to get as much as I possibly can but it's not the only thing I base my decision on.

   You want to try to get them to tell you the comp first.

   There are a couple of different ways you can go about this. You can ask them about the comp before they ask you. You can ask "what is the salary range for this position" and then you can ask "what is the target salary" (they're not the same thing) or you can just ask what the target is.

   Say the salary range is $80k to $120k - HR usually never lets an offer go out above the midpoint of the range, so $100k. The target might be $95k.

   Or, my preferred method is to wait for them to ask me what I'm looking for and instead of telling them, I ask them the questions above. I say "what's the range for this position?" and then shut up. Do not say one word until they tell you.

   Then you can have whatever conversation you want with them.

   The reason this is my preferred method is, if you ask them first, then they can come back with "how much are you looking for?" And unless you want to ask them again what their range is, you'll probably kind of have to answer that question about how much you're looking for first.

   I just had this happen recently - I got to the end of the first phone screen and the recruiter had not brought up comp. So I asked her what the range for the position was. She said she wasn't sure - which I am 99.5% sure is pure BS. I have never in my life worked on a position where I didn't know what the comp range was. And this is a major company - so there's a salary range.

   She said she wasn't sure what the range was and asked me what I was looking for (see, that's why this is not my preferred method). I told her I couldn't possibly answer that question until I knew more about the position, the benefits, if there was a bonus structure.

   I know you're probably reading on this site every day about how "I gather my research, present to them how much I think I'm really worth and that I want to negotiate higher comp for myself" - hell, there's probably some of those in the answers right here in the comments on your post - but that's just not the reality I and many (most?) recruiters live in.

   We want to get candidates as much as we can. First because it's the right thing to do and second, so they accept the offers we get them.

   But unless you work in a really, really small company, we're working with salary bands. Even when I worked for other clients who had a bit more flexibility, you're still working with salary bands and with trying to maintain internal equity. We have to work within THAT company's salary bands. We do not work within other company's salary bands.

   Say the salary band is $90k to $110k and they made you an offer at $100k. Which is right on target, mid point. You do your research and you've convinced yourself that you're worth $120k, in no company that I have ever worked at are they going to come back to you with an offer of $120k. That's 20k over their target and 10k over the top of the salary band. Which you should have some idea about if you've already discussed comp.

   So more power to those folks if they are able to gather their research and negotiate more for themselves but that's not happening with the majority of companies. I am not saying don't negotiate. What I'm saying is you need to know what parameters you can/should negotiate within.

   Now, all that being said, also be aware that this can all blow up in your face. It shouldn't happen but it does.

   You need to decide for yourself what your deal breakers are.

   This just happened to me as a candidate: I just recently had a situation when a company that I was very interested in extended a verbal offer to me. I had discussed their target salary with the hiring manager previously and it was honestly a bit on the low side - not that I wouldn't have accepted the offer. I was interested in the company, that's the reason I moved forward in the process.

   The HM extended the verbal and I asked the her if there was any wiggle room on the base. Then I asked about the bonus - I would not see any money from the bonus for approximately a year and a half so I asked if there was any possibility of a sign on bonus. I also asked her if she could send me a copy of the benefits package - to which she replied that she usually sends that with the written offer letter.

   Which I thought was REALLY weird. I send candidates out our benefits info after my first call with them. The idea that a candidate would not get a look at the benefits package until they've verbally accepted the job was extremely off putting. What are they trying to hide?

   Now mind you, I did not demand anything from the HM - I asked if there was any wiggle room. This conversation happened on a Thursday afternoon. I expected to hear back from her Friday or maybe Monday at the latest.

   By Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon (I really can't remember which), I still had not heard from her. So I called her. By this time, I had already decided that even if I was offered the job - even at a higher base or with a sign on - that I would never accept. I would never want to work for a person who was so unprofessional. Who extends an offer to a candidate and then ghosts them? Not anyone I'm interested in working for.

   When I spoke with her, I didn't call her out on her ghosting or her unprofessional behavior.

   Now if I had accepted the position, I would be the person negotiating compensation with candidates on behalf of the company. Why would they want someone to work for them - who was responsible for negotiating - that wouldn't/couldn't negotiate?!

   Now I could look at this whole situation two ways:

   1. I blew up an offer by asking if there was any wiggle room on the base or any possibility of a sign on bonus.

   OR

   2. By asking about those things, I forced this hiring manager to A. reveal what kind of a boss she would be and B. what my job would be like recruiting for this company. Would she get her knickers all in a twist every time a candidate asked what I did?

   The thought also crossed my mind, would she be this unprofessional (she didn't even have the courtesy to withdraw the offer) and so bent out of shape if I was a man asking if there was any wiggle room?

   I consider this a bullet dodged and am very glad I found out the truth before I accepted the position.

   Don't rely on Glassdoor for comp info when doing research - there are other sites more data driven. Try Payscale and Salary.com - both use data provided by employers.

   Here's an article by the awesome Kristen Fife - anyone interested in salary negotiations or in a job search should follow her on LinkedIN for a perspective from a real life recruiter's point of view:

   Let’s Talk Offers, Salary Negotiation, and Compensation

   https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lets-talk-offers-salary-negotiation-compensation-fife-she-her-hers-/

   I think my best advice on negotiating is not to be afraid. Yes, sometimes it can blow the deal up - as recently happened to someone on here - who was truly devastated.

   Even though negotiating comp is part of my job, it used to be harder for me to do it for myself.

   I get a lot of calls from offshore recruiters for positions that I'm not interested in. I negotiate with them all the time - negotiating for a position I don't want has been great practice and has made me pretty fearless about it.

   Please let me know if you have any questions.

   GOOD LUCK and keep us posted on what happens!!!

7. KileyJanuary 26,2022 at 7:27PM UTC

   Thank you Joan for sharing. Your transparency, insights, guidance, and advice is outstanding and hugely appreciated!

8. Beverly RuyleJanuary 24,2022 at 7:19PM UTC

   Tell them you are looking to entertain their highest and best offer. Then shut up.