I recently hired a new manager in my department.

42 Comments

1. AnonymousMay 1,2024 at 5:39PM UTC

   Put the warning in writing and copy HR. Ask that ALL requests for changes to SOP must be submitted in writing to you for consideration.

2. Lori GoldenMay 2,2024 at 2:28PM UTC

   How is a "seasoned manager" not a supervisor? Did you listen to that person's reasoning or were you just stuck on who has the authority to do what? You might consider delegating more and at least listening to your managers when they have input. Words like "insubordinate" and "writing this up" say more about you as a leader than them.

3. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 2:39PM UTC

   Seasoned doesn't equate to supervisor. There are many organizations that have staff that are experienced but are hired as individual contributors and not supervisors. If the seasoned manager had bothered to SHARE his reasoning and received approval before just changing his colleagues schedule, you might have a point. But to just change a colleagues schedule without authorization (company policy) is insubordination. That you don't get that says a lot about you than this incident.

4. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 12:43PM UTC

   If he was off a different day than expected the payroll system would show a new employee as a no show for that day. Or he may have negotiated that day prior to hire. So it is a problem. If the seasoned mgr felt this way it should have been discussed in advance.

5. AnonymousMay 4,2024 at 2:36AM UTC

   Not necessarily. When OP said "seasoned" I understood it to mean he had been there longer than the new person and long enough to understand his role and duties. Depending on the company, "manager" or "supervisor" does not necessarily mean they are responsible for the employees' schedules. I had an "assistant manager" who was responsible for office logistics, but I was the one who was responsible for the schedules. When he would answer the phone from one of them calling out for the day, he repeatedly failed to let me know that we would be down a person for the day, which became a serious problem for me. They started asking him to approve vacations and personal days off, which became a problem because he did not know how many days the people had to take. I had to stop that and set up how they were to report absences when he allowed too many people off the same day. Each company has different reporting structures and titles, but should only have one (plus a backup) for approving absences or changes in work schedules. He was reprimanded verbally and then written up. When he came to me, thinking I would renegotiate his salary and title because he had another offer, I wished him luck, collected his keys, and showed him the door.

6. GirlBossanova934974May 3,2024 at 12:53PM UTC

   Am I missing something here? So the "seasoned manager" out of the blue decides to tell the new manager to work Friday instead of having that day off from work. WHY? Did a few people call in sick? A big order come in? Was this just done to show "who is the boss" and that sort of thing? If there was no legitimate reason other than some sort of power trip, then by all means, write up the "seasoned manager", have both of you sign the paper, and file the reprimand with HR.

7. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 12:53PM UTC

   If the seasoned manager is overstepping his authority, give him a verbal warning that the next time, you will have to write him up. If he continues initiate the PIP.

   I had a supervisor like this who would tell an employee it was ok to come in late or take the day off, but never tell me. I had to send an email to the staff explaining our duties and who was to be notified if they were sick or had to come in late. He also kept telling us how he could make more money here or there, so I finally told him good luck with his new adventure when he said he had an offer on the table expecting us to give him a raise and promotion to stay.

8. maria roseMay 3,2024 at 7:06PM UTC

   I get the impression that you, the OP of this post, have discussed this type of behavior, overstepping their role control, so you do not at this point need to reprimand them simply verbally. At this time, you should have a meeting where you verbally explain and give them a written warning of the conversation they must sign to acknowledge that they have been warned. Some individuals brush off verbal warnings but giving them a written acknowledgment of the discussion will show that this specific behavior is not going to be tolerated within their job role. I gather that changing schedules is above their job position role. Don't wait to do this, as it will continue if not addressed.

9. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 4:19PM UTC

   Write it up. He’s not changing and will continue to challenge your authority. Or worse. He’s not seasoned just salty and needs to move on.

10. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 9:28PM UTC

    For clarity's sake all managers in the department are individual contributors and are not supervisors. They do not have direct or even dotted line reports.

11. Liz MilneMay 4,2024 at 1:10AM UTC

    Next time he tells you he can find a new job, agree with him...

12. RiaMay 4,2024 at 2:41AM UTC

    Agree 100% I would take that as a threat.

13. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 12:34PM UTC

    This!!! Any employee who attempts to leverage your authority with resigning threats is not worth keeping. Especially in today's employment challenges. #bye

14. AnonymousMay 8,2024 at 1:28PM UTC

    I did that once to an employee who was horrible.
    I agreed with them and suggested they would likely be happier elsewhere. It was very satisfying.

15. Eileen MMay 5,2024 at 2:37PM UTC

    I would have a confirmation with the seasoned manager, assuming I knew nothing about the specific conversations or decisions, to just listen and learn why they thought it was okay for them to make such a decision. I wonder if he's not looking or feels ready for greater authority or responsibility, and thought he was helping. There's something going on that pushes him to respond in this manner, so if he's a valued manager I would pause and explore. It's better to get at the heart of it. You can still follow-up with a write-up. How great would it be if he realized that should be an outcome?

16. Gerald CombeMay 8,2024 at 1:07PM UTC

    Absolutely the best answer here. I can tell there is a huge gap in successful management via the various responses. There is an obvious disconnect with this manager and he has an issue somewhere. The fact that he is a senior manager says alot. He has been there a length of time, he has been a performer at one time and that he can supervise and assist coworkers in achieving company goals. I agree, be genuine in a consult with him to help work out why there is a disconnect, create a beneficial action plan, execute the plan while providing support and continued education.

17. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 12:32PM UTC

    If he has a history of stepping over the line, and if you think it’s better for the organization to to find a new job, then write him up if you feel it’s best. Agree with him that he can always find a new job.

    On the other hand, if you feel it’s better that he remain, try more coaching and clear definition of his role (sometimes simple role confusion is an issue). Good luck.

18. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 12:38PM UTC

    If it keeps happening, then writ it up. There's no excuse for behavior like that. I think writing it down and having him sign it will open his eyes. If it doesn't, then time to find that new job, dude.

19. carolina girlMay 7,2024 at 12:48PM UTC

    I would say” fine! don’t let the door hit you in the ass! You’re fired!”

20. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 4:01PM UTC

    Very directly ask "are you giving me your resignation" or say "you're happy to accept his resignation".
    He's setting himself up, grab the opportunity but make sure you're documenting these occurrence with him and HR. If you fire him your documentation will help and you stop him from collecting unemployment. He's a pollutant.

21. AnonymousMay 8,2024 at 1:40PM UTC

    Exactly!

22. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 1:17PM UTC

    Serious question:

    Why have you been keeping this guy around?

    What does he do that someone else can't do?

    Keeping toxic employees, employees who aren't team players and employees who are, like the one you just described, "rogue" isn't a good look on you with the other employees.

23. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 2:40PM UTC

    I would tell him to pursue it.

24. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 2:58PM UTC

    People often throw out terms like “toxic employee “. Someone even mentioned just getting rid of him. It sounds like he’s just a jerk.

    He thinks he’s more important than he is. Make sure that you clearly communicated the new managers hours to him before writing him u.

25. AnonymousMay 8,2024 at 5:17PM UTC

    Maybe he's the one being jerked around. Maybe this manager builds up his confidence by allowing him to train new staff and gives him higher level assignments and then puts him in his place over minor differences. There's some reason he's being kept around. He's valuable.

26. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 3:29PM UTC

    believe people when they show you who they are.

27. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 7:21PM UTC

    Let them go to their "right position".

    Not only is that insubordination, is disrespectful.

28. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 8:12PM UTC

    If it's not the 1st time you've had to speak to him about this then why hesitate on writing him up. He creating a hostile work environment and you will lose great talent if you have not already behind this. Do you have some kind of friendship with this person that you are willing to risk losing great workers?

29. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMEMay 7,2024 at 9:42PM UTC

    Write him up and, if you can, put him on a three-month probationary period. He has a exaggerated sense of self-importance. (He is treating you like you are just a "mere mortal" that does not see his self-proclaimed greatness.)

    He is undermining you and it needs to stop.

30. AnonymousMay 7,2024 at 10:38PM UTC

    He and his big ego need to find another place to be.

31. Chrissy Regan SmytheMay 7,2024 at 10:59PM UTC

    What’s to consider! Add it to his file. The behavior won’t stop without consequences. Sounds like he’s already received verbal warnings. Time to go to the next step.

32. Tamara GMay 8,2024 at 12:15PM UTC

    I’d write him up. This could also borderline harassment on a gender aspect. It sounds like he thinks he’s better than you and will continue to not follow authority.

33. Tonia D. WoolfolkMay 8,2024 at 12:45PM UTC

    He was way out of line for doing that and it's worse that a new hire is involved.
    The new hire is observing and learning who is who so even if the seasoned manager didn't have prior instances of overstepping, the behavior needs to be addressed verbally, in writing, and placed in his file. He needs to be right-sized every time he challenges your authority. He will learn and if he doesn't, you will have the documentation to assist him with his exit so he can find "the right position for him."

34. tamara vinsonMay 8,2024 at 1:35PM UTC

    It sounds like this particular seasoned employee is trying to undermine your authority and learn what the new employee’s role and responsibilities are as opposed to his. Thankfully, another employee heard it and spoke up. The seasoned employee is creating chaos as well as a toxic work environment. I would speak with the seasoned employee and inform him of the write-up as well.

35. AnonymousMay 8,2024 at 1:42PM UTC

    then go find a new and better fit for yourself.

36. Lynne GuraMay 8,2024 at 3:56PM UTC

    He's topping it off by threatening to leave? That makes it easy. Tell him to do so. Then write him up for the other infractions.

    You can surely find someone who respects your authority.

37. AnonymousMay 8,2024 at 5:11PM UTC

    How valuable is he to you? If he's really seasoned, and you really trust him to train new staff, maybe you should consider giving him a bit more authority and loosen the reins a little. It's possible he's grown into a higher phase of management and should be treated that way. That lack of confidence in him could be why he's thinking this position no longer fits him.

38. tamara vinsonMay 8,2024 at 7:48PM UTC

    And that's why he should leave. I believe you don't give authority just because someone asserts it. He does know the job, and if he feels he's being passed over or overlooked, he definitely should leave.

39. AnonymousMay 9,2024 at 3:34AM UTC

    Noooooo. The entitlement & negative behavior the “seasoned manager” has shown doesn’t deserve a reward aka promotion. It benefits no one and influences communication issues and toxicity of the department. Plus the OP is putting their position in trouble if they follow your advice.

40. AnonymousMay 9,2024 at 3:37AM UTC

    To go behind your back is an enormous problem that goes deep. How I see it, they themselves don’t like the new hire. Hopefully they aren’t trying to scheme a way to kick them out the door. It reflects on you, and you don’t deserve those issues

41. Sabrina RahmanMay 10,2024 at 9:00AM UTC

    Call his bluff. If you can find better, do just that.

42. shelleyMay 16,2024 at 7:28PM UTC

    A little late to the conversation but my sister had a man on her team who constantly pulled all kinds of crap, things like this included. She wrote him up several times for all kinds of infractions, mostly related to mistakes he made in his job. Unfortunately, she was very hesitant to write him up for insubordination. He actually got very confrontational and hateful directly to her on a team video call. She second guessed herself for too long and never really addressed it let alone wrote it up. He did eventually retire early though not under the most optimal circumstances. Basically he had issues with women being the boss and as he got older, I believe he became less able to hide his misogynistic tendencies.