I recently took a part time job.

28 Comments

1. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 2:01PM UTC

   In one breath you say they have a remarkable DE&I program and them you list ways they are missing the mark? are you talking about different employers here? Sorry I don't follow.

   If you feel strongly that this part time gigs values are dishonest or don't align with your values because of these mistakes, you should stay away from the opportunity. You will most like continue to focus on ways the company is missing the mark and be unhappy being surrounded by what you deem deceptive.

2. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 2:12PM UTC

   They are 2 different companies, one full time and one part time. The full time does a great job of applying DE&I concepts and values. The part time does a great job using DE&I verbiage but fails miserably at applying the concepts.

3. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 4:20PM UTC

   Then, if you can't influence their efforts and be a positive DE&I contributor then this will negatively impact your feelings about the company and you will not be a fit so save yourself the grief and find something else to do since you don't need the job.

   Explain to your friend that you don't agree with the company values and miserable attempts at DE&I and you can't, in good conscience, work at such a horrible company.

4. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 5:25PM UTC

   Yes....if this is something you can't stomach don't do it.

5. Judi Stevenson-GarciaSeptember 20,2021 at 3:09PM UTC

   I think organizations are allowed to be on their own individual learning and operationalization trajectories related to DE&I, and that you shouldn't compare your full-time organization to the part-time org. If the part-time org claims to embrace DE&I values and has conducted some training but still hasn't gotten it all "right" in your opinion, I think you can provide some feedback via HR, and keep working there without feeling like you're compromising your own values. But if you feel like their operationalization of DE&I values is just putting lipstick on a pig and you are working for an organization that does not actually fully embrace the values, then you might reconsider whether it is worth the extra money. You could definitely explain to your friend that you have decided it is important for you to work for organizations that get it right and you didn't realize until after orientation that your values were not aligned with the company.

6. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 5:17PM UTC

   While I agree with a lot of what you're saying, lets think about how this employer is going to respond to a new part-time employee providing constructive criticism of their DE&I program. And it sounds like your friend may have been a referral for you to get this job? Unless your part-time gig is in the DE&I division and you're being solicited to give feedback, I'd think about keeping my head down on this one. If their practices are that troubling to you, do everyone a favor and decline the position. This is too much effort for a part-time job that you don't really need.

7. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 8:39PM UTC

   I did consider waiting it out and seeing if maybe, after I got some ground under my feet, I could discuss the subject with them.

8. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 5:56PM UTC

   The work itself is only part of an amazing job. You have to feel pride and a connection to the culture to truly love your job. Even it's just a pt job for extra $. You have to enjoy it and have fun. It sounds like you already hate the company and feel it's beneath your standards. Your friend.will understand you not accepting the referral.

9. AnonymousSeptember 20,2021 at 8:37PM UTC

   Sounds like you work for two organizations who define D&I differently. DE&I approaches change often- it can be hard to keep up, even those with good intentions-- the people at your full-time gig have worked with different trainers/consultants than those who designed the program at your part-time gig.

   Re whether you stay or go: Do your part-time gig's values do harm to others? If so, go. If not- if it's just not as robust or different, then maybe you stay and you can have conversations with your colleagues about other approaches. (For example, calling girls "guys" is only recently viewed as a bad thing- it's tough to stop the behavior- I grew up in NJ, we called each other "guys" all the time and I never thought anything of it until recently).

   This is tough stuff, and it sounds like they are trying. Maybe it's not the approach you know or agree with, but is it a start that they can build on? If you just can't stomach it, tell your friend that the corporate values clash with what you've had the benefit of learning at your full time job, and you just can't work in that organization. Honest and simple with no disrespect toward her.

   Good luck.

10. AnonymousSeptember 21,2021 at 7:24PM UTC

    I think that’s my question - does it do harm to use DE&I as a buzzword without applying the concepts and principles? Obviously not physical harm, but other types of harm? … that’s where I’m a little unsure.

11. Alexis GladstoneSeptember 21,2021 at 12:35PM UTC

    I agree with Judi that every company is on it's own path for DEI&B. Organizations usually start with baby steps, defining it the best they can based on what they know. As they learn more, they (hopefully) evolve, just as we all have as individuals.

    As others have said, it is up to you as to whether, how this part-time company approaches things is so unaligned with your values that you don't want to stay. If you like the work and co-workers, and the extra money and time outside of the home is giving you something you have been missing, then I would stick it out. Though this is totally your personal choice.

12. AnonymousSeptember 21,2021 at 7:21PM UTC

    I can see how each company can be on their own path, but to me shouting it out the way they do, and even to their customers, with little to know application of the concepts seems to disrespect the concept itself. It’s fine to no be far along in the journey, but it is not fine to use a buzzword with such an important meaning simply for the sake of using the buzzword and sounding trendy.

13. Alexis GladstoneSeptember 22,2021 at 12:43PM UTC

    It's been my observation that it is more the norm than not. In the work I do with organizations who are trying to recruit, retain, and develop women, I find more companies playing lip service to it rather than wanting to do the hard work. I know it's disheartening but unfortunately it's reality (at least in my experience).

14. AnonymousSeptember 21,2021 at 1:33PM UTC

    Genuinely curious as to what to say to a group instead of “hey guys”. I am from the Midwest and “guys” is a colloquial way to refer to everyone. Am I better off just saying “hello” or “hi”? I lived in the south for a while and “y’all” just isn’t part of my vocabulary! ;) I’m not trying to offend anyone, just increase my awareness in this ever changing world. Thank you!

15. Stephanie TrevinoSeptember 21,2021 at 1:47PM UTC

    team, crew, all, folks, friends, people, peeps, everyone, pals

16. AnonymousSeptember 21,2021 at 7:43PM UTC

    I’m in NYC in a very diverse office (race, sexual orientation, religion) and we use guys all the time- both in the office and outside with friends. It’s just a “gender neutral” normal term that doesn’t mean anything bad. I haven’t even thought of it as something bad and I am sure that nobody else in the office would either. I would not worry about that- see how they hire and who you are working with.

17. Karen GongawareSeptember 21,2021 at 3:52PM UTC

    Sorry? What was your complaint? Sounds like you are looking for reasons to leave already. "Hey guys" is used for a group at my work and is perfectly fine. If you said, "Hello gentlemen and ladies" you would be laughed out of the building. Honestly, we all need to stop and really think before getting our undies in an uproar. Stay, go, your choice. But make sure you understand why you are leaving and be honest with yourself.

18. AnonymousSeptember 21,2021 at 7:11PM UTC

    My complaint is that their use of DE&I as a buzzword with no action or application behind it diminishes the concept of DE&I as a whole.

19. AnonymousSeptember 21,2021 at 7:19PM UTC

    - does their lack of action or application of DE&I concepts while throwing the term around as a buzzword diminish the concept of DE&I as a whole?
    - I’m not concerned what she would think, but rather how my abrupt exit would reflect on her.
    - I don’t need the job and it is for fun, it’s also a perfect fit aside from the DE&I issue. So really I guess the problem lies in whether this is the extent of their program or if it’s a work in progress. But I’m not really sure how to find that out without putting someone on the spot.

    Having a robust product line is good business. Not profiling customer, or people in general, based on appearance is good character. These two things are each marginally DE&I related but do not constitute a “commitment” to DE&I

20. Sue Gordon- retired Career CoachSeptember 27,2021 at 11:37AM UTC

    DE&I is a continuous journey for all. It is never complete. Your part-time job is not as far along the continuum as your full time gig. Perhaps you can help the forward momentum?

21. Stephanie TrevinoOctober 5,2021 at 10:36AM UTC

    Great suggestion Susan.

22. AnonymousSeptember 22,2021 at 2:19AM UTC

    Thank you for your vulnerability and willingness to share your experience with the group here at Fairygodboss. You definitely caught something in the training video that doesn't quite align with DE&I from a gender-neutral perspective. You just might be the first one to catch this miss in the video.

    Based on what you shared, there may be a few questions you could ask yourself to get at the core of what you want to do:

    Is this job fun? Aside from the gendered language in the video, would you enjoy being with this company? If so, are you interested or comfortable in bringing up to someone within the organization what you noticed in the video? Would you rather leave without taking on that conversation?

    In terms of your friend, how would you ideally like to handle it with your friend? What is the outcome you would like to have with your friend? What steps could you take to achieve that outcome?

    Not that you asked about this but since others in the thread have questioned the language of 'hey guys', I share this article: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/gendered-language-hey-guys_l_5f21b189c5b6b8cd63b0f331. As the article states, "The problem with “guys” is that it is a “masculine word,” according to Amy Jeffers, an organizational development specialist in diversity, equity and inclusion. There are better alternatives, such as “Hey, everyone” or “Hey, folks” that are not gender-assuming, Jeffers added."

23. AnonymousSeptember 22,2021 at 2:20AM UTC

    Really?

24. Sue MooreSeptember 23,2021 at 2:40PM UTC

    This is your friend's company, correct? And your friend recruited you? Wouldn't it just be easiest to tell them that you saw an inconsistency in the training that you'd like to address and propose a solution? They would likely appreciate your viewpoint and you would likely feel better bringing the situation to light. If they decide not to take action to your satisfaction, then you can decide you'd rather not work with them. If it turns out that the training was provide with good intent but slightly missed the mark, you might be more comfortable continuing to work there if you realize it was an honest mistake that will be addressed

25. Clydene HorriganSeptember 25,2021 at 1:59AM UTC

    The term “guys” as defined by merriam-webster is a plural for a group of pe, regardless of sex.
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/guy

    I realize language is changing, but according to the 5 or 6 websites I looked at, that is still the definition.

    If you you’re uncomfortable with it, you could just say “good evening. How are you all doing tonight?”

26. Janet ParkhurstSeptember 25,2021 at 5:01AM UTC

    I SO agree with you, Maryann! We, as a polite, educated society that embraces proper grammar, albeit without excessive "uptightness," have been forced to pander to those who feel it's a God-given right to self-identify as "androgynous." I find this so frustrating and massively inconvenient when it comes to communicating in a manner that's "acceptable." I find it outrageous that the majority of society risks damnation and other forms of punishment for "lack of respect" toward those who insist on their "rights" to be called them/they and ruin otherwise clear communications with their self-obsessed demands to be considered above the rest of us. The English language can be flexible, but I don't think for one second that it should be compromised, let alone slaughtered, because a sexually confused minority demands this exclusive right. It is ruining our communications as a PEOPLE, and as a united society. For God's sake. I was appalled to read the (educated) editor's column of a favorite magazine of mine, where she referred to her singular daughter as "they." She was trying to describe a situation where one daughter was debating with the other. It went something like, "Their eyes widened when they heard their sister, Sarah, reject their request for whatever." It's just ridiculous! In striving to be ever-politically correct, we all sound like MORONS. I say, tell "them" to GET OVER THEMSELVES and, if they can't do that, find a better solution. I, personally, don't care if you consider yourself a male or a female or both. It shouldn't be MY job to figure it out.

27. Sue Gordon- retired Career CoachSeptember 27,2021 at 11:33AM UTC

    I think you missed the point. These folks are not sexually confused. They don't want you to figure out if they are male or female. The point is they do not align with either gender and that is why they ask for the ever -adapting English language to continue adapting to recognize this.

28. Judi Stevenson-GarciaSeptember 27,2021 at 1:34PM UTC

    Janet & Maryann - you both sound like you need to be on the receiving end of some DE&I classes. Persons choosing not to be identified by "he" or "she" pronouns are not out to get you - they are simply limited by the constraints of our language that is binary, when gender is not. If you looked for one minute into what it means to identify one's gender, you'll see that society applies gender identities to people, and that many realize - some from an early age, that the gender applied to them does not match what they feel about themselves. And that sometimes, what they feel does not match with a "he" or a "she." The "I" in DE&I stands for "inclusive." That means to accept people for who they are and how they choose to identify themselves - whether it is their culture, their language, or their sexual or gender identity. The fact that you are upset that it gets in the way of your grammar policing is pathetic. Get over it. It isn't ruining society. It is expanding society. There are some languages that have multiple ways to express gender identity, but ours doesn't yet. Language evolves as people do. If you can figure out what "lol" means in a sentence, I'm sure you can figure out how to use "they" to refer to a person who doesn't identify as a he or a she.