I had a revelation today after my latest meeting at my newish job.

Anonymous

June 24,2022 at 6:18PM UTC

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I had a revelation today after my latest meeting at my newish job. After waiting for a long time to get a chance to ask a question in a meeting, I was feeling flustered and didn't articulate my question correctly. Instead of asking for clarification or helping me get to the question, a leader in the meeting who had hogged the time and approved the document we were having the meeting to talk about, started badgering me.

When I couldn't say the exact words to change the document, she started saying"What do you mean?" "What do you think it should say?" She then told me I wasn't being clear and said we'd use the document and meet again after it's filled out to see if it works. I felt terrible for not being able to say what I meant and disrespected for not having my words heard.

After the meeting, the project manager said she was sorry that the meeting went that way, but we weren't meeting to revise the document. We are going to keep working through it as we go along.

She didn't speak up in the meeting to say that. If she had, I would have stopped asking to improve the form. If the leader had said that I would have stopped.

So my revelation is: Don't feel bad when someone disrespects you in a meeting if you haven't been given clear information and ask a question. Don't feel bad when you don't have the information to communicate directly. And speak directly so people know what they are talking about.

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AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 7:20PM UTC
I have a boss that sees situations like this like blood in the water for sharks. She ridicules and humiliates the targeted person and then feigns concern when her target looks unhappy or embarrassed.
We have all had moments when clarity is more elusive than what we hoped. A good leader asks gentle probing questions to help tease out what team members mean and need. I am sorry you went through what you did.
AnonymousJune 24,2022 at 11:26PM UTC
When asked for clarification, my manager responds with "I wasn't ambiguous", meanwhile everyone asks each other what is she talking about on a regular basis. She doesn't communicate effectively, then gaslights. It's extremely frustrating and narcissistic.
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 4:04PM UTC
That’s miserable! I’m so sorry you all have to deal with that!
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 12:27PM UTC
Case in point....sharks in the water. Not a "collaborative" environment at all. Due to toxic jerks - who are usually the "managers".
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 4:02PM UTC
Omg that has to be miserable!
I am so sorry. When will executive leadership ever learn that by having a toxic supervisor with high turnover, which is easily documented, it will cost them more money than they could ever make within that department. It’s a fact. Employees leave bad managers … not companies.
Those types of ‘leaders’ need to be on a manufacturing line somewhere, interacting with boxes rather than people!
Gwendolyn FreeJune 25,2022 at 12:14PM UTC
This happens far too often in the office, but no one speaks up or stands up for themselves when it occurs. When this happens, take a moment to gather your thoughts and focus on how to communicate what you would like to say. Don’t allow anyone to badger you! Jot down your points before the meeting and be prepared. It helps me!
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 12:27PM UTC
Often times when you speak up with suggestions, or to merely ask for clarification--you are "flagged" as a problem child. So why bother--with the bullcrap in these toxic office settings, with toxic managers. It will always be "political" in nature.
S ReynoldsJune 25,2022 at 4:50PM UTC
So absolutely true! Also never appear smarter than the manager!
Grace BergeronJune 25,2022 at 12:37PM UTC
I agree.
However, there are some unkind ppl in the workplace.
Good luck in your newish job!
Alexis GladstoneJune 25,2022 at 12:40PM UTC
I love what others have shared. Not to derail the conversation, though I also see another aha.
It's helpful to know the purpose of a meeting and each topic. Too many times we show up and don't know what the meeting is about and what the expected outcome is. Even if there is an agenda with topics on it, we don't know if it's information updates or to actually work and make revisions as you had (rightfully) assumed.
People who know me, are never surprised when I say something like "What is the purpose of this discussion? Are you looking for input or do you just want to share the details/status?"
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 12:48PM UTC
I love your last paragraph!!!!!! Right on!
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 1:14PM UTC
I will say that’s good advice however, I have a manager who will tell us the plan, or the agenda, or the strategy she wants, and then 2 days later when it’s the day of the meeting she’ll act like she never said that and look at me like I have 3 heads.
It’s kind of bizarre, I know, but from the way you described your initial situation, author, you may have a similar personality on your hands.
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 4:00PM UTC
It’s amazing how people are elected to be managers (Even when some have no business). I had a manager like this one time and I insisted on getting everything in email until he caught on when I would refer back to his email in meetings and stopped replying back and would just stop in my office and tell me things and so I would write it down verbatim But it was definitely less impactful. So grateful that he went out in a blaze of glory like he always deserved. It’s amazing how long bad managers are allowed to operate. Because people don’t leave companies, they leave managers.
S ReynoldsJune 25,2022 at 4:49PM UTC
That's what I'm doing now. I have been with the company 15 years. I had no issues with my prior manager, but my current one is horrible. I am walking away because it seems the company loves her. She has been there only 4 years. Sad!
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 6:47PM UTC
Damn. I’m gonna use that in my exit interview. LOL
Communication CoachJune 25,2022 at 9:00PM UTC
Michelle Stewart, that is one of the best thoughts - a great truth spoken, " people don’t leave companies, they leave managers."!
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 3:57PM UTC
I fully agree. One of the larger irritations that I have with meetings is the tenancy to just create a meeting for anything without clarification.
I absolutely loathe walking into a meeting and not being prepared. Sure, you have to do it sometimes because it’s the nature of the beast but without truly clarifying the purpose and intent and making sure that everyone has the materials they need before a meeting starts, you are risking massive derailment, the possibility that the work or project may not get what it needs by the end of the meeting and worse, people feeling like this poster felt afterwards. It never hurts to ensure everyone is prepared and to be highly specific on the point and intent of each meeting? Good callout!
Alexis GladstoneJune 25,2022 at 7:31PM UTC
So true Michelle. I'm actually working on repurposing a "primer" on effective meetings that I put together for a client. Little things can make them more effective and then people feel good about what was accomplished.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 12:48PM UTC
It sounds like the project manager was fearful (?) to clarify the intent of this meeting in a group format. I wonder why? Could it be that the person doing most of the speaking, the gal who "hogged all the time" , is a source of intimidation to the project manager and others? The meeting itself sounds poorly executed, poorly led. EVERYONE should be clear on the purpose of a meeting and this needs to be stated at the beginning. Following this, there should be an agenda, and a time limit. Overall, your experience is not unique but screams of disorganization at the leadership level. Going forward, I would sit back and offer very little--until you can see that you'll be informed, supported, and kept in the loop on what the plan is. Otherwise, you'll get labeled and blamed for not knowing what's going on, etc...When that's truly not the case.
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 3:49PM UTC
Fully agreed! This was my interpretation, as well. Because at the end of the day, none of us clarify or articulate themselves 100% perfectly every moment of the day. So what? That’s what makes us human. But a kind, empathetic supervisor, which is the only kind we ever really need, would give someone time to articulate and gather their thoughts and or gently remind the purpose of the meeting and or Try to understand what a coworker is saying.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 1:11PM UTC
I have a manager at my job and whenever I talked to him in the past I would say something and he would always seem to respond with another question that made me question myself.
Even though before the call I was very confident I knew what I was talking about, he made me feel like I had no idea what was going on.
I was talking about this same manager with a coworker and she said she experienced the same situation on calls with him.
It was at this point I realized, the two of us DO know what we’re talking about. HE is the one who’s unsure.
So now if I do talk to him I take the info I need from him and when he asks me a question I just leave it at “ok, I will investigate that further and get back to you” instead of going back and forth in a loop of confusing questions.
My main point is. When you’re confident that you know what you’re talking about, you don’t even need to say anything. Sometimes silence is stronger than words.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 1:21PM UTC
anyone familiar with the song Flashlight by Parliament?
change the word to gaslight and that’s what I used to sing in my head on a loop when my horrible supervisor would play this game. Not only did it drown out his nonsense, but it allowed me to smile instead of glare daggers through his face.
I should mention this was after I already submitted resignation notice and there was zero value to letting his idiot words enter my brain.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 3:33PM UTC
I like this strategy and will use it!
rgstaffing@bellsouth.netJune 25,2022 at 1:16PM UTC
I think there are several lessons here. Firstly, always be prepared so that you do not stumble when expressing what you want to say. It is difficult to know the lay of the land and the different personalities when you are "newish" in a job. Probably less is more. But kudos to you for contributing. My best advice would be to not get worked up, or get all negative but instead learn the coporate culture, make friends and learn. No one is expected to be perfect so don't be hard on yourself.
fduntvJune 25,2022 at 3:18PM UTC
ok but I think the problem here is with how the manager didn’t communicate the intent of the meeting to the invitees beforehand. If the manager had told all attendees this meeting was meant to be a presentation of the document only and not a time to comment on the document, everyone would have understood that intent and no one would have made comments. But, because the manager didn’t do this there was a misunderstanding about what is the purpose of this meeting. It’s the manager’s fault for not making that clear.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 3:19PM UTC
You weren’t disrespected. You failed to communicate clearly and possibly didn’t pay attention to the meeting purpose and context. Instead of pointing at the other person, practice being concise and articulate in order to be heard.
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 3:48PM UTC
Wow. Smh. With all due respect, I hope you’re not a supervisor.
Michelle S.June 25,2022 at 3:52PM UTC
After years of experience in building and leading teens teams, as well as almost 15 years as a director of HR ….
NONE of us clarify or articulate themselves 100% perfectly every moment of the day. So what? That’s what makes us human. But a kind, empathetic supervisor, which is the only kind we ever really need, would give someone time to articulate and gather their thoughts and/or kindly remind the purpose of the meeting and or try to understand what a coworker is saying. Because that’s what you do when you’re professional.
You may get to deliver a statement however you want to in your personal life, that’s your problem, but at WORK it’s my problem. So as long as you’re kind, empathetic (not like your comment above), you don’t ever have to deal with me. Your delivery could use a lot of work. I hope you don’t speak like that to people at your employment.
AnonymousJune 27,2022 at 1:13PM UTC
Thank you. Love what you wrote. We can't forget the "I" part of the DEI values we keep talking about.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 6:44PM UTC
Maybe she didn’t articulate because her manager is inept and didn’t train her properly. It happens. Especially since every workplace is short staffed and every team is stretched thin in this economy.
Don’t rudely assume it’s her fault when you don’t have all the facts and you weren’t there.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 8:44PM UTC
That could certainly be the case, the Manager did not inform of purpose of the meeting or assumed rather new employee knew. For rather new employees asking another employee one-on-one questions, if they seem helpful but, sometimes watching and listening to learn what is going on and how things are done is the best practice!
Bradford McCormickJune 25,2022 at 4:11PM UTC
Right. But if aperson is like me who had parents who were intrusive instead of "having my back", it's hard for me to "stand up for myself". But some people really are decent.
True story, take it or leave it. In college (Yale, 1966) I was in a philosophy lecture class and the teacher, a full professor whom Harvard had previously pleaded not to leave them, was lecturing us kids about human freedom. I kept thinking he was going to give me an exam at the end of the course and I saw no freedom in that. So at the end of the class I went up to him and told him this. Instead of asking me who I thought I was, he literally apolgized to me and told me he meant no harm. John Wild (1900-72). He was gentle giant.
GirlBossanova934974June 25,2022 at 5:03PM UTC
I don't get it. The type of meeting being referred to in this thread is a meeting to go over the action items or what my company likes to call an "Action Item Register" meeting. We have one of these every THU. Why the heck didn't the Project Manager let the new employee know that up front? The Project Manager should have stepped in right away and let the new employee know that. In my company, we also have another meeting on TUE where we add and subtract line items from the Action Register. In that meeting, comments about various action items are addressed, commented upon, moved up in date, pushed down in priority etc. Again, part of the Project Manager's job!
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 8:02PM UTC
If someone asked you what you meant, it seems that is asking you to clarify. That doesn't seem disrespectful in any way shape or form. Perhaps it was the tone of voice. Even so, please don't take things so personally - it's not about you - it was about the document. Get your big-girl panties on!
Carli GarciaJune 26,2022 at 12:54PM UTC
This is why people continue to be rude and it’s called “being professional.”
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 8:36PM UTC
Sometimes jotting down something you wish to say in a meeting is a good way to articulate exactly what you mean. It's probably a good idea to remain silent if feeling flustered. I don't see how someone asking what you meant as being badgered
Carli GarciaJune 26,2022 at 12:53PM UTC
My guess is that tone and body language had something to do with the word “badgering” to describe the behavior. If the project manager had to apologize, then the OP is not imagining things.
Erin BrinkerAugust 8,2022 at 4:50PM UTC
It likely has a lot to do with tone. We all can hear the difference between genuinely asking for clarification and using those same words to shut someone up.
AnonymousJune 25,2022 at 8:41PM UTC
Don't overthink things. Get your point across, or not, learn your lesson, then move on to the next challenge!
Brenda F.June 25,2022 at 8:46PM UTC
If this is a new job, you are learning how people interact in meetings. Everyone communicates in different ways - some very different than you do.
There will be times when we get tongue tied or have difficulty expressing ourselves - or worse.
What I do when that happens is follow up after the meeting. I say that I was having difficulty figuring out how best to ask my question. Then I take the opportunity to ask what I wanted to know or relay what I believe is relevant.
Rosa GoesJune 25,2022 at 10:26PM UTC
Your revelation is correct: don't feel bad. But if there is a next time, you can start off by saying something like 'the question I have, and I'm going to try to articulate as best I can (with a smile), is (then state it). The key is to collaborate, even if the right words don't come out. Good luck to you!
AnonymousJune 26,2022 at 5:28AM UTC
It helps to circulate the document ahead of the meeting and prepare the meeting for discussion based on the questions received as responses.
AnonymousJune 27,2022 at 3:07PM UTC
Based upon my processing/learning style, I am always willing to discuss questions/proposed revisions on documents in a meeting setting (document revisions are quite common in my line of work).
However, as an approver of all almost all regulated documentation in our facility, I refuse to "approve" a document without a final review at my desk if revisions have been made and communicate this professionally and consistently. it is okay to ask for time to evaluate if significant changes are made during a meeting setting that are new and have not been previously presented.