I have been doing good work and a senior person has noticed and encouraged me to ask for more and opened up some informal opportunities.

42 Comments

1. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 6:53AM UTC

   Ask yourself...
   can you stay in the setup or do you see the situation holding you back ? Based upon the situation described, it seems like you cannot move forward for the time being. But you have to ask yourself: do you have enough patience to stay? if so; do your job the best you can and hope for a future promotion/raise. Does company history document that it will most likely not occur within the next 1-3 years ? I cannot see an option where you can negotiate a promotion/raise in near future as you mention that management has already pre-determined promotions/raises across resource pool. But you can stay positive and highlight accomplishments going forward and thereby position yourself better for next round.

2. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 2:25PM UTC

   Thank you. Patience is great advice. I’m having trouble calibrating how powerful my sponsor is vs. how extreme my manager could be. For example, my manager has tried to fire me at one point. My sponsor just got promoted to another department. So will my sponsor’s word mean the same if she’s in another department though at a very senior role? Or will my boss use this window of opportunity to fire me before I can rotate into my sponsor’s department (which may take 6 months to a year)?

3. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 6:47AM UTC

   Was the attempt to fire you based upon performance, company strategy or simple different work/life values ? If feeling uncomfortable with your sponsor "out of sight" start collecting your achievements and accomplishments for the past 1-2 years. One could argue that your manager may try to fire you in near future so this is why you need documentation. Never-the-less: your documentation may also be relevant if you simply find the work environment becoming too tense to stay within going forward. So documentation will be needed any way for any future job applications. The way you describe situation tells me that your gut feeling is saying that you are in for turbulent times.

4. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 12:37PM UTC

   All correct. They make it seem like it was about poor performance. But I think it was simply that my sponsor was liking the quality of my work, which was better than the folks they have lined up to promote. And they need my sponsor’s signoff to promote anyone.

5. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 3:12PM UTC

   You've answered your own question. You are in a toxic environment with a boss who does mean you well. Get out.

6. Chre M. Davis, M.S.Ed.January 8,2022 at 1:57PM UTC

   I do not get that they won't even open up learning opportunities. How does that benefit them, exactly?

   You don't mention how long you have been there, but I would create a 3-6 month professional growth plan for myself and then share that with the person who is acting as a sponsor for you. Keep your head down and keep going, and start networking outside of your organization.

   Then update your resume with specific, measurable accomplishments and start searching.

   Doesn't mean you will leave, but shows you are willing to, and being open to new opportunities is life changing.

7. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 2:22PM UTC

   Thank you! They need approval from people like my sponsor to promote someone, and there are very few spots for promotion and rotation. So they want all opportunities including learning ones going just to a couple folks (who have not been promoted in 5-10 years). I have been there 1.5 years. Other people who didn’t have my sponsor’s support saw some opportunities come their way from my manager while I see her trying to block all opportunities coming from my sponsor.

8. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 5:36PM UTC

   We couldn't figure out why we didn't get any training while others got it thrown after them. It all made sense when they announced that our facility was going to be closed and none of us transferred...

9. AC80ydJanuary 9,2022 at 4:51PM UTC

   "Do the thing and you will have the power.
   But they that do not the thing, had not the power."

   Ralph Waldo Emerson

10. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 3:17PM UTC

    Your boss is insecure and can't allow herself to acknowledge your good work. You can't change her. Transferring would be your best bet. If promotions are based on seniority (and not on managerial ability), your company sucks and you should get out entirely.

11. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 4:21PM UTC

    This sounds awful but I’m unclear on why you think your mgr won’t just level with you about the limited promotion slots instead of denigrating you. You don’t need to critique someone in order to justify not promoting them…your mgr could have just pointed to limited budget or other reasons out of their control (which sounds like the truth).

    if you’re upset about not getting promoted that makes sense and you may want to explore other options outside the company. If you’re upset about your mgr’s strange behavior that also makes sense and could be a reason to look elsewhere. You’ve said you want to stay at the company so I think you will just have to apply internally and ask as many people outside your mgr for support - eg hr or the senior person you referred to at the start of your post.

12. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 12:34PM UTC

    I don’t know why my manager won’t just level with me. While I wish I had a more senior role, I haven’t asked for any promotion.

13. AnonymousJanuary 8,2022 at 5:34PM UTC

    There is truth to the saying that incompetent people get promoted away.

    I was in a somewhat similar situation where my manager (without any feedback, write-ups or similar) put me on a PIP, that she never even formulated. Surprise, this also blocked me from applying within the company.

    My crime? I was hired for her job after she had been promoted and did it much better, so she felt threatened. It didn't help that she flaunted her, ahem, assets, which I refused to do.

    HR is also useless because they always believe the lying managers.

    Many managers, male and female, sadly don't have the leadership skills to develop their people, instead they feel threatened and insulted by the perceived lack of loyalty, or simply want to keep the good workers for themselves by forcing them to stay.

    So my impression is that you have two choices: leave your department or leave the company.

14. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 6:00PM UTC

    I had a similar thing happen to me. Naive to think hard work, skill and tenacity on my part would fix the pip…instead I found myself jobless, and w out a recommendation. Now working for half the salary and no benefits. My last day HR stated they had hired two new college graduates to replace me, as she escorted mr to the gate-Charming. * LEAVE*

15. customer JohnsonJanuary 9,2022 at 1:53PM UTC

    How is the senior person/sponsor related to your manager? Have you somehow become part of an issue between the two of them? Is the mentor a third person? What is their interest in senior employees — if there are people hanging around for promotion after 10-15 years, that’s something of concern regarding your future especially with the recent negative feedback you report. The unfairness of the situation looks like there may be more going on (between those two) in the background than you may be aware. Step back and take an dispassionate long view of the situation. There ARE other jobs out there.

16. AnonymousJanuary 10,2022 at 8:08PM UTC

    You are right. My sponsor and manager appear to really dislike each other.

17. customer JohnsonJanuary 11,2022 at 11:46PM UTC

    There you go — this has nothing to do with your performance but if these evaluations get into your file, you’ve got a problem. Transfer to another location or go to a competitor company as soon as you can while your sponsor can still write you a glowing recommendation. You can always come back after things calm down in a few years — look for a promotion when you leave and another when you return. You’re learning a hard lesson in office politics.

18. Mary KerdashaJanuary 9,2022 at 2:04PM UTC

    It sounds like you have a mentor in the senior person. Dynamics with your boss however are not ideal, and for reasons you may never know. Based on feedback from your current boss I would consider a new department or even a new company. Your mentor can still be that even in a new position. Once you decide what to do, invite your mentor for coffee or lunch and discuss your future plans, and how the two of you can still connect.

19. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 2:11PM UTC

    If there were a future there for you other departments would open themselves up to you. The longer you stay in a place with no interest in you or your growth, the more you will be set up for failure. Ask your mentor for permission to list him/her as a reference. Ask a vendor or client you have good working relationship with. Look elsewhere for better opportunities. Open your profile on Linked In so recruiters can reach out to you. Be loyal to yourself, not to a company.

20. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 3:09PM UTC

    Yep

21. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 2:19PM UTC

    From afar it seems a few thing might be happening, all of which would have me polishing my resume.

    1) there are people with 10-12 years more tenure who are “in line” to get promotions. This means the company doesn’t have a lot of mobility. Which can be fine - lots of people love stability - but if you are looking to be promoted and it’s clear there are others who have been waiting longer, it is going to be a while.

    2) despite their seniority, you sponsor’s word doesn’t carry much weight with the person who decides your path. This could be a ersonal thing between them, or it could be larger - you may be linked to someone who is great to learn from but who won’t be helpful advancing you

    3) lack of training. I’m in an in-house/support department at my company and the big, formal learning and development is for the people on the client service (money making) side of the house…that’s actually changing, but, even before, if you asked for it and made a pitch you got it. Should it be an automatic part of the job? Of course. But it was available if you asked. If you haven’t asked (someone mentioned a plan with learning goals, which is a great idea) and are just going on what typically happens, try the plan and direct ask.

    if your company actively denies you training and says they won’t even consider promotion opportunities until others who have patiently waited their turn are eventually handled…well, you can stay and possibly be perfectly satisfied if you enjoy the work and the people and adjust your expectations (and there is nothing inherently wrong with that) but if you want more, it sounds like you will be frustrated for years to come.

22. RiaJanuary 9,2022 at 3:08PM UTC

    Well said

23. AnonymousJanuary 10,2022 at 8:07PM UTC

    I would wait patiently except they consider just doing good work as aggressive and undesirable self-promotion.

24. Maggie StoneJanuary 9,2022 at 2:21PM UTC

    It sounds like you are being blocked from making any moves internally, at least for now. That must be incredibly frustrating. In light that fact, does the “great work” make it worth staying? If staying there means staying in your current role for a while, are you ok with that?

25. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 3:07PM UTC

    That is exactly what is happening. Not a fan of the "wait your turn" mentality based on seniority. Hillary thought the same of Barack. She was woefully wrong. Go out and seize greater opportunities even if it means changing companies.

26. Kimberly DusseaultJanuary 9,2022 at 2:43PM UTC

    Whatever you decide to do, try to look objectively at your manager’s feedback for anything that is valuable and actionable It sounds like your work is great, particularly on that project, if a senior manager is encouraging you. In fairness though, your manager has a full picture of your performance. You may find benefit in their perspective. If not, then use that information in your decision making process.

27. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 4:01PM UTC

    Run don’t walk out of that circumstance

28. Audrey KirschJanuary 9,2022 at 4:50PM UTC

    If you feel there are opportunities that you are qualified for, put yourself forward. The reaction you get will let you know when or if you will have the chance to advance. Then you can decide if it’s a company you want to stick with or if it’s time to move on.

29. AnonymousJanuary 9,2022 at 7:43PM UTC

    Your immediate manager usually has more impact on your development and career than any hard work you put in yourself, sadly. It’s not ‘great work’ if you’re being prevented from learning and growing. If your manager doesn’t like you, for whatever reason, run, don’t walk, as another poster said below. The great news is that it sounds like you have an excellent referee who believes in you! I’d keep doing my job as well as possible, stay out of my manager’s hair, look aggressively for another position, and ask the senior sponsor to be your referee. Keep it positive, focus on being driven and excited to grow as a person, and say nothing about your manager’s poor management as it will just make you look bad. Your boss has clearly told you that they don’t care about you or your growth. It’s hard to accept, but there will be a job out there that you like equally well but which has a supportive manager and room for growth. :-)

30. Bradford McCormickJanuary 10,2022 at 6:47AM UTC

    Your boss had more senior employees to promote? That reminds me of a person [happened to be male] who brought in a very tough mission critical project for his big boss. He was always doing such a great job that the boss's toadies were afraid he was making them look bad ("If you have an employee who's not performing, send them to my department" --> and he turned such people into happy, productive employees). The boss's cardiologist told him he had to reduce his stress level. He fired the good guy.

31. AnonymousJanuary 10,2022 at 1:22PM UTC

    You can either believe the excuse your manager has given you and wait patiently for "your turn" or take a step back and assess your strategy. How many folks are ahead of you? How long would this pipeline of talent promotion take? Is it really worth the wait? What if a new hire had more experience than you, would that push you back in line?

    In my own experience, the manager was blowing smoke because they didn't believe in me in the first place. I'd also liked the work at a previous company but after years of waiting for the training I never got nor the promotion, I left knowing that I was worth more and could do better without my manager's support. Five years later after a couple of strategic moves, I'm making more than double my salary than what I'd been paid at the old company, receive more training than I have time for and have the job doing exactly what I want. In the end, my gut feeling was right - waiting my turn was just an excuse my boss used to not promote me (found out through a colleague still at the company that he thought I was too ambitious.) If you have the momentum to excel at what you do and grow, don't wait for someone else to promote you otherwise you end up losing the opportunity.

32. Gregory HolubJanuary 10,2022 at 2:16PM UTC

    Agreed, does not sound like your supervisor wants to assist your growth you are just there to make them look good and it is time to look at other options. And that is a great question to ask yourself if another person with more experience comes in will they get the next nod and your supervisor will tell you, you need more training and time but they are still not investing in you either way. Good luck to you, know your worth and follow your gut as she has stated and it sounds like your are on that path already!

33. EMILY KIKUE FRANKJanuary 10,2022 at 4:25PM UTC

    Ask the senior staffer who noticed your work for some informal mentoring, as well. That person took the time to notice your work, and may have some tips for you for navigating this tricky situation.

34. AnonymousJanuary 12,2022 at 7:15PM UTC

    I’d like to ask some pointed questions.

    -How long have you been in your role?
    -Are you meeting every bullet in your job description and then some?
    -Have you reviewed the job description for the role that you would like to be promoted to? Do you meet most of those bullets consistently?
    -Do you have lots of great feedback from your teams?
    -Does your teams operating model support all seniors? For example, we have a staffing model where there is 1 senior and 2 juniors per “pod.”

35. AnonymousJanuary 13,2022 at 5:24AM UTC

    I’m not looking to get promoted. I’ve been in my role more than a year and even if I was promoted, it would be to another specialist role (not people manager).

36. AnonymousJanuary 13,2022 at 2:12PM UTC

    If this is you, OP, thank you. It was optional to reply, but I’m glad you did. :).

    With that context, I’m curious about the unfair and negative feedback that you received. You don’t have to state the nature of it.

    I once received feedback that I was taking things a bit too personally. Was it negative feedback? Yes. Was it hindering me? Yes. The skill was in how she delivered this feedback in a kind and empathetic way. She was a skilled people manager. (I have since had other managers who had no skills in this department.) But the message still needed to be said. Initially, I felt it was unfair to single

    me out for “being sensitive”, a feminine quality that I felt was more of a benefit than a negative. But as she spoke, I came to understand that she meant that I should not assume that the things that happen are purposefully an affront to me. I was extremely talented technically, but I was young and I needed to learn the softer side of the job a bit better. Sometimes negative feedback is needed, but it’s all in how it’s delivered. Good people managers know how to discuss these topics. Bad ones…don’t. Have you considered that your boss may struggle to share “hard to hear” news? I know that when I started managing people, I struggled with that. I felt that I was crushing their spirit. But I now see that the contribution is critical to their success.

    As for the training, was this discussed in the same meeting as the conversation where you received “negative” feedback? What was the reason given? Is it customary for team members to take this training? If it’s somewhat rare, did you propose a case for the value to the business as a result of you taking the training vs an “I want” frame? Did your boss say that the training would be available to others and not you? Is the training expensive? Would it require time away from a team that is short staffed?

    If seems that you don’t trust your boss. I’d like to ask you to consider that trust is a 2 way street. She has to do things to earn your trust and, you have to be willing to trust someone.

    If you would like to follow up on some of these topics privately, please feel free to DM me.

37. AnonymousJanuary 15,2022 at 1:13AM UTC

    It’s hard to judge whether criticism is warranted in a particular case. My manager barely rarely gives me good feedback and frequently gives me negative feedback. I work with a lot of other people who give me amazingly positive feedback. As for the training, my manager said it is not usually available to newcomers (year after joining) like me but it was approved a few months after joining for someone who joined at the same time as me.

38. KJanuary 12,2022 at 11:54PM UTC

    If you don't ask you don't get....
    and you will spend years waiting patiently and never get those opportunities, because the only person stopping you is you, if you listen to that manager tell you otherwise not realising that they have their own agenda and their own favourites. If you play this game the only person you are damaging is yourself. And if a manager starts lumping criticism the minute they see you have your eye on the horizon, I will bet good money they're trying to keep you in the crab bucket. Don't let them.

39. AC80ydJanuary 30,2022 at 4:48PM UTC

    Main point : decide what you want. Go for it. Period. All this he said/ she said is noise.

40. Karen GongawareJanuary 13,2022 at 5:25PM UTC

    Oooo can we say abusive relationship? Belittling, check. Taking away your future, check. Getting others ( a mentor really? Not any mentor I ever heard of does that) to put you down, check. Making it all your fault for no promotion, check. I don't do abusive. You may want to get a reference (written) from the senior person about your work. Then go get a job where you are valued, not kicked around.

41. AnonymousJanuary 13,2022 at 7:42PM UTC

    I’m a little confused about what was said and to whom.

    You said you don’t want a promotion and you haven’t indicated that you want a promotion to your boss.

    But it seems you may have told the mentor that you do want a promotion. The mentor said you should “stop asking your boss” as though you have already asked for a promotion.

42. AnonymousJanuary 15,2022 at 1:08AM UTC

    I didn’t ask anyone for anything. My sponsor advocated on my behalf and my mentor thought it was because of something I was doing. All I did was talk to my sponsor about my work when she had similar meetings with everyone in the department.