Every time I ask for a job's salary range, the recruiter puts it back on me.

59 Comments

1. Stephanie Mansueto, Corporate Recruiter & Job Hunting CoachFebruary 13,2022 at 7:33PM UTC

   I would simply say, "I'm sure your company has salary ranges/bands so I'd love to know what that is for this position and I can let you know if that works for me. Or if you have a budget set aside as I know ranges can be wide that would be helpful to know."

   If they keep pushing back on you or say there isn't a range or budget, you can respond with "ok well, I'm considering a few opportunities at the moment, and it would be great if you could go back to the team and gather salary information. I certainly don't want to take up your time if the salary range isn't in alignment for both of us."

   It's a huge red flag if they refuse to give you a salary range or budget. Move on. Companies of all sizes and growth stages, even start-ups, have salary ranges and budgets assigned to staffing and resourcing. It's downright poor recruitment if they refuse to give you a range or a budget.

   Good luck!

2. TroyFebruary 13,2022 at 9:17PM UTC

   Hey, Anonymous in my opinion that's weird that the recruiter did not verbalize the salary range for said position. From my experience, recruiters would give me a salary range and encourage me to research the pay for myself, but I was provided a figure. I will say, don't let it upset you or ruffle your feathers. Do your research and feel comfortable about the figure "you" put out. Know your worth. If the figure feels good to you based upon your research, then you can't go wrong.

3. AnonymousFebruary 13,2022 at 9:44PM UTC

   Yes they are really good at that. For my current position I gave the recruiter a $30k range beginning at my high end. So my low end offered was more than I was making.

4. AnonymousFebruary 14,2022 at 4:29AM UTC

   I agree! I have hone through this 3 times over the past 6 weeks. I finally has to cave since the human resources people simply would not budge and give me any range. I went top range plus 10%. It was infuriating.

5. ChrishoggFebruary 15,2022 at 4:27PM UTC

   Why exactly do you have to cave? Was the employer holding a family member hostage? Was the sheriff going to arrest you if you didn't give in? Are you in a religion where it's a sin not to answer an employer's unfair or manipulative question?

   Employer: "I'd like to ask, what are you currently earning?"

   You: "I'm being fairly compensated for the contribution I'm making. What is the range for this position?"

   ... or ...

   Employer: "So, what are you looking for salary-wise?"

   You: "I'm looking to be fairly compensated for the contribution I make. What is the range for this position?"

   ... or ...

   Employer: "Let's put off talking about salary until later."

   You: "That might result in us both wasting our time. What is the range for this position?"

   ... or ...

   Employer: "I'm unable to reveal the salary until I know what your expectations are."

   You: "I understand, and I expect to be fairly compensated for the contribution I make. What is the range for this position?"

   Employer: "As I said, I can't reveal that right now. Let's wait until later to discuss that.

   You: "Well, this looks like a great company, and I'm sure I could contribute to your success. Maybe next time. Have a great day." Then get up (or close your link), and leave.

6. Michelle S.February 15,2022 at 3:44PM UTC

   I always put it straight back, which is why I always try to ask first. If I ask for a range and they ask what I’m making or what I’d like, I’ve pushed back and asked if the salary is confidential or if they just don’t want to tell me the range?

   Normally, they relent. And if it’s too difficult, I walk away. Because odds are, they want you to lowball yourself. And people like that aren’t worth working for anymore when there’s so many great employers out there.

7. Maureen B. WeisnerFebruary 15,2022 at 4:40PM UTC

   Great strategy! As the candidate, when you initiate the compensation conversation it's empowering and clear that you are advocating for yourself.

8. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 4:00PM UTC

   You will have to repeat it

   This works for me: your hiring manager must have this role laddered and budgeted for the fiscal year. What is this role budgeted for?

9. Cheryl HellerFebruary 15,2022 at 5:31PM UTC

   As a corporate recruiter, I will share the budgeted range with candidates. There is no need to waste either the candidate or the company's time if the compensation isn't right. I always take notes and if our budget changes I reach back out to the candidate.

10. Melissa M.February 15,2022 at 4:02PM UTC

    So I think this may have been echoed in the answers below, but I always answer a question with a question.

    Q.) What's your desired salary range?

    A.) What salary range are you targeting for this position?

    They will state the hiring range budget. They will ask you, does this fit with what you are looking for? It almost is for me and often is even higher than the number in my head. I answer yes and we move on.

    If they don't give a number and are flaky about it and insist you give a number, I'd be hesitant to work there. Often when companies do this, they have a low budget or they are cheap.

    Do some research if possible to know the average salary range for that kind of job to have a number in mind just in case.

    I feel like it's a game. Whoever says a number first loses.

    Hope this helps you for future interviews. :)

11. Nikita WeinbergFebruary 15,2022 at 4:06PM UTC

    This is a horrible, unnecessary but still often used tactic to try and recruit great talent at significantly reduced rates. My recommendation is, in particular as a woman, SHOOT HIGH! The recruiter will often tell you if you're over max. Another tactic is simply stating that you're not aware of ALL other monetary incentives included in total comp, 401k, RSUs, PTO etc, so it would be hard to give a set number. That often works. Hope this helps

12. Rivera.annamFebruary 15,2022 at 4:08PM UTC

    Great advice!

13. Erin McDermottFebruary 15,2022 at 4:12PM UTC

    This can be tough if you're working with external recruiters (agency), as the hiring teams are not always super forthcoming with what they can/will pay for a candidate before they actually see the candidate(s)' resumes/skills/etc...

    I always, always put the question back on them. If they stick with "I don't know"/"there is no range"/"we want to make sure we are aligned with your expectations," I would tell them you're considering multiple opportunities and can't make any decisions about moving forward with interviews without having that information. Let them come back to you!

    Sometimes emphasizing that you can't give a number without knowing what all of the other benefits are helps as well (bonus potential, long-term incentives, 401k, RSUs, etc...)

    Other things to note:
    1. research - a simple google search, or glassdoor search, should give you an estimate of what that type of role is currently pegged at in the market

    2. in some states in the US, it's ILLEGAL for the recruiter to withhold salary information if you ask for it - check the laws in your state/country

    3. it's a red flag if they won't tell you anything... it's either because their goal is to pay you the lowest possible within the range or because they don't have a set range/salary policy. Both are red flags in my book!

14. Jennifer TaylorFebruary 15,2022 at 4:12PM UTC

    I usually say, "What is the salary range? I'm asking so I don't waste your time or mine. The minimum I can accept is $XX" and make sure your minimum is what you are truly aiming for, not what you would settle for.

15. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 4:46PM UTC

    It also depends on how much you need / want a new job. If you are ok where you are and looking for that increase then shoot a lot and add in your are negotiable depending on benefits and leave...

16. ValerieFebruary 15,2022 at 4:14PM UTC

    Love the other suggestions posted here. Here is another angle: How about asking about their Budget? And maybe ask them about the full compensation package - salary is part of it, but so is time off, work environment, holidays, healthcare, pension/401k.

    If they keep pushing back, you can also say, "based on the responsibilities of the role, and my experience and knowledge, it sounds like this role would be $XX-$XX."

    ... Aim high!

17. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 4:17PM UTC

    If I'm on an initial call with a recruiter, the good ones ask this question. As mentioned below, since I don't know what their comp structure is, I tell them what my comp structure is and ask if it's similar and what the high level ballpark for the range is. I've never had someone refuse when on a call. Recruiters have been a little more reluctant if we're just chatting online so sometimes, taking that initial 20/30 minute call is the easiest way to get that information.

18. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 4:19PM UTC

    As a recruiter, I always start the conversation about salary expectations. I will ask specifically what they are looking for and be very upfront if we cannot match that. I also tell candidates when they are asking for less than what they are worth or if our budget is higher than what they are requesting.

    After we have discussed monetary compensation, I do go into detail about our benefits and what we can offer as a small startup. I'm also honest about while we do not currently offer the cadillac of benefits, we can only continue to improve.

    My advice would be do your research and know your worth. If you need $X amount of dollars based on your experience and worth, then you say that and stick with it. You are your own best advocate.

19. M CDFebruary 15,2022 at 4:26PM UTC

    This is pretty common, and I agree, it stinks. I've been on both sides of it, as a recruiter and applicant, and holding other roles in HR. I saw Melissa's comment below about the recruiter will give the hiring range budget, and wow, if you can find a recruiter who will do that, let me know! Or maybe I've just been working in the wrong industries (lol)... because my experience has been like yours, they will not even tell you a range or the hiring budget.

    In my experience I'd say it goes one of two ways ..either they give you something (anything) to go off of, like a range or the hiring budget, or they don't. In either scenario, do your research ahead of time. In your job search I think it's always good practice to know how your job (or the job you're seeking) is priced for your geographic region, industry, experience or education level, etc. Websites like salary.com, Glassdoor and others have salary info, even BLS (although I find sometimes the BLS numbers are too low), and yes, sometimes these websites like salary.com etc, the information is behind a paywall or requires a membership, etc....but eventually with enough digging you can start to get a general idea.

20. Brenda CrawshawFebruary 15,2022 at 4:45PM UTC

    All of what you've heard is spot on. And frankly, if a company/recruiter isn't willing to share their salary range for a position, I'd just move on. Lack of transparency at that level would be a huge red flag for me.

21. Kathy MasonFebruary 15,2022 at 4:46PM UTC

    In many states recruiters are required to give the salary range. Double check regulations for your state.

22. Anjali MathaiFebruary 15,2022 at 4:53PM UTC

    If you're able to do some research in advance on possible salaries for the position, that would be great. Try your best to not give into the pressure to give a concrete number first. (We often throw out a low ball number to not come across greedy).

    If you really don't have a number in mind, I think it's okay to say that you would like to be paid at fair market value for the position and that you do consider for the full compensation and benefits package. I often still try to put it back on the recruiter to mention a concrete number first.

23. NikkiFebruary 15,2022 at 4:56PM UTC

    Insist on knowing the salary range. Or, tell the recruiter that you will do a search for comparable salaries to get an idea of what the position is worth. Not giving the job's salary is a technique to keep costs down. This is one way that works: You tell them what you've been paid, they offer a few thousand more so you feel you are doing better. Then you discover that others with similar education and experience are getting ten thousands of dollars more.

24. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 8:07PM UTC

    In some states, including Massachusetts, it is illegal to ask the applicant to give the interviewer the current salary or salary range before the applicant is given the company’s salary range.

25. M BLFebruary 15,2022 at 4:57PM UTC

    In my point of view, you need to know the market of your own job and say to the recruiter that you're in the range of the market between x and x depending of the context, number of employees etc.

26. Diane RiveraFebruary 15,2022 at 5:18PM UTC

    Use your region's labor market information! In the US, each state keeps labor market data, inc. wage information per region. We use Qualityinfo.org in Oregon.

27. Patrice SmithFebruary 15,2022 at 5:31PM UTC

    I would respond we both know the job has a budgeted range and a company will not exceed it. Then ask what that range is then expect an offer to be the midpoint. Flip the script on the recruiter. Point out you have no interest in wasting anyone's time if not in your acceptable range.

28. KelleyFebruary 15,2022 at 5:33PM UTC

    You could check things like Glassdoor and other sites that give details about salaries. Check that out even before having the conversation so you can be prepared with a range that works for you and is in line with the position. I also looked into living expenses when I was getting an offer in another area and explained that the salary was not enough. Since I had evidence, they gave me a higher salary. Also, something to think about.

29. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 5:36PM UTC

    I just lay it out there. Say something high. If they want you they can make a lot of things happen these days including sign-on bonuses. I wouldn't be shy because it waste your time to not know. What if they are $20k off?

30. Ashton CreelFebruary 15,2022 at 6:14PM UTC

    It’s hard, but if you have a good idea of what they offer, start at the high end of that! The worst they can say is that they don’t have that range available for the position, and that is where you ask about a more acceptable range (maybe by caveating that you want the role and don’t want to miss the mark).

31. Sarah BordersFebruary 15,2022 at 6:25PM UTC

    Know your worth. Resources like Glassdoor and Payscale.com are great for determining that. I would set my acceptable range at [determined worth in terms of annual pay] + $5k. Then, I would research the pay for the type of position for which you are interviewing to make sure it aligns with your range. If you can find information on the exact position at this particular company, all the better. Good luck!

32. Sarah NFebruary 15,2022 at 7:07PM UTC

    I am an agency recruiter and we ask this question because we want to know what is worth your time. We can adjust our searches if needed to help you find what you are looking for.

    You can also let hiring managers or internal recruiters know that you "are open to their best offer."

33. Angelica Alvarez-IbarraFebruary 15,2022 at 7:53PM UTC

    I usually don’t bring up money until they do and do that to them. So they’ll ask what range I’m looking for and I’ll ask- well what is the range for this position. Maybe I’ve been lucky because they’ve been upfront or we haven’t wasted too much time by the time it comes up.

34. Joanne RosenFebruary 15,2022 at 9:07PM UTC

    I hate that they aren't transparent about salaries. Sadly, it's the company that makes them do that. But, here's the kicker. If it's an independent recruiter, they are paid based on the salary for the position. You'd think they would want you at the higher range.

    Before doing the interview, check average salaries in the field on Glassdoor or somewhere like that. Then, give them a range where you would be comfortable if you meet in the middle.

    My son is getting recruiters calling him. He immediately asks the salary. Most of them get mad. He says, I'm the prettiest girl at the dance and you are asking me. So, what's in it for me? (He doesn't actually want a new job. He just got one in November.)

    Cheers

    Joanne

    www.analyticadvantagecc.com

35. Rosa GoesFebruary 15,2022 at 9:23PM UTC

    I agree with Sara. My recruiter once told me if asked that question in the interview, to say 'Compensation is important and I will consider your best offer.' You could also change the first part of that answer to 'I'm excited about the position...' or 'I believe I'm a good fit...' or something along those lines. Good luck to you!

36. Kerry RoperFebruary 15,2022 at 10:14PM UTC

    I would also put the question back to the recruiter, but I recently proved myself wrong on this just point last week. I'm so glad the recruiter had the rate listed with the job description. When I first read the job description and saw that pay rate, I thought there was no way that I would be qualified enough or educated enough or experienced enough. It is WAY more than I would have even entertained, and still I got the job anyway. Knowing your true value is not something as simple as looking up the title and location. It's the small things that make you and your skill set unique. They are all added values. I have been on the job in my field for over 25 yrs and I am taking this as payback for all the years I spent underpaid. Clawback time.

37. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistFebruary 16,2022 at 3:19AM UTC

    CONGRATULATIONS! I love it when this happens!

38. Lauren Springer (she/her/hers)February 15,2022 at 10:47PM UTC

    "I'd like to interview, demonstrate my value, and evaluate the opportunity against my career goals. If we all agree that I'm the right person for the job, I'll entertain your best offer. Company ABC's overall compensation and promotion philosophy is important to me. At some point, I'd like to learn how those decision are made in addition to the compensation details for the role. At that time, we can have a more substantive conversation and I can give you my thoughts about your compensation package."

39. AnonymousFebruary 15,2022 at 11:20PM UTC

    I am not sure where you live but in NYC -

    "NYC Job Postings Must Include Salary Ranges Effective May 15, 2022

    NYC employers will soon be required to include a minimum and maximum salary on all job postings for positions performed within the City. As we previously reported, the City Council passed Int. 1208-B (Law) on December 15, 2021, and due to new NYC mayor Eric Adam’s inaction within the 30-day veto period, it became a law as of January 15, 2022. "

    This will provide a lot more transparency and you will be able to get a more accurate salary range.

40. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistFebruary 16,2022 at 7:59PM UTC

    It may or it may not. I recently saw a posting for a job in CO - where they already have this law - and the salary range was $35k to $125k. Not very helpful.

41. SANDRA KOPECKYFebruary 16,2022 at 1:20AM UTC

    Know your worth and know the salary for that position (or type of position) in a location.

42. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistFebruary 16,2022 at 3:22AM UTC

    Low balling yourself means saying you're looking for $85k and it turns out the salary range for the position is $95k to $120k.

43. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistFebruary 16,2022 at 3:40AM UTC

    I've posted this before so my apologies to anyone's who has already read it.

    So, here's my two cents. I'm going to preface my answer with a reminder that this stuff is all my opinion - I'm sure you could ask 4 other people and get 4 other different opinions. And that while I am a recruiter, this is my answer on what I do as a candidate. I generally – about 95% of the time - discuss compensation on the first call with them. If I'm going to move forward, I really want to know what the comp is - it doesn't have to be one specific number but I want to make sure we're in the same ballpark. If I don't know the comp after the first call, it's probably because I've asked and they haven't told me. I always discuss comp on the first call with my own candidates.

    So, personally, my goal is not to either low ball or high ball myself. Money is important - there's plenty of places I could be doing volunteer work if I wanted to - but it's not the end all and be all for me. I do want to get as much as I possibly can but it's not the only thing I base my decision on.

    You want to try to get them to tell you the comp first.

    There are a couple of different ways you can go about this. You can ask them about the comp before they ask you. You can ask "what is the salary range for this position" and then you can ask "what is the target salary" (they're not the same thing) or you can just ask what the target is.

    Say the salary range is $80k to $120k - HR usually never lets an offer go out above the midpoint of the range, so $100k. The target might be $95k.

    Or, my preferred method is to wait for them to ask me what I'm looking for and instead of telling them, I ask them the questions above. I say "what's the range for this position?" and then shut up. Do not say one word until they tell you.

    Then you can have whatever conversation you want with them.

    The reason this is my preferred method is, if you ask them first, then they can come back with "how much are you looking for?" And unless you want to ask them again what their range is, you'll probably kind of have to answer that question about how much you're looking for first.

    I just had this happen recently - I got to the end of the first phone screen and the recruiter had not brought up comp. So I asked her what the range for the position was. She said she wasn't sure - which I am 99.5% sure is pure BS. I have never in my life worked on a position where I didn't know what the comp range was. And this is a major company - so there's a salary range.

    She said she wasn't sure what the range was and asked me what I was looking for (see, that's why this is not my preferred method). I told her I couldn't possibly answer that question until I knew more about the position, the benefits, if there was a bonus structure.

    I know you're probably reading on this site every day about how "I gather my research, present to them how much I think I'm really worth and that I want to negotiate higher comp for myself" - hell, there's probably some of those in the answers right here in the comments on your post - but that's just not the reality I and many (most?) recruiters live in.

    We want to get candidates as much as we can. First because it's the right thing to do and second, so they accept the offers we get them.

    But unless you work in a really, really small company, we're working with salary bands. Even when I worked for other clients who had a bit more flexibility, you're still working with salary bands and with trying to maintain internal equity. We have to work within THAT company's salary bands. We do not work within other company's salary bands.

    Say the salary band is $90k to $110k and they made you an offer at $100k. Which is right on target, mid point. You do your research and you've convinced yourself that you're worth $120k. In no company that I have ever worked at/for are they going to come back to you with an offer of $120k. That's 20k over their target and 10k over the top of the salary band. Which you should have some idea about if you've already discussed comp.

    So more power to those folks if they are able to gather their research and negotiate more for themselves but that's not happening with the majority of companies. I am not saying don't negotiate. What I'm saying is you need to know what parameters you can/should negotiate within.

    Now, all that being said, also be aware that this can all blow up in your face. It shouldn't happen but it does.

    You need to decide for yourself what your deal breakers are.

    This just happened to me as a candidate: I just recently had a situation when a company that I was very interested in extended a verbal offer to me. I had discussed their target salary with the hiring manager previously and it was honestly a bit on the low side - not that I wouldn't have accepted the offer. I was interested in the company, that's the reason I moved forward in the process.

    The HM extended the verbal and I asked the her if there was any wiggle room on the base. Then I asked about the bonus - I would not see any money from the bonus for approximately a year and a half so I asked if there was any possibility of a sign on bonus. I also asked her if she could send me a copy of the benefits package - to which she replied that she usually sends that with the written offer letter.

    Which I thought was REALLY weird. I send candidates out our benefits info after my first call with them. The idea that a candidate would not get a look at the benefits package until they've verbally accepted the job was extremely off putting. What are they trying to hide?

    Now mind you, I did not demand anything from the HM - I asked if there was any wiggle room. This conversation happened on a Thursday afternoon. I expected to hear back from her Friday or maybe Monday at the latest. By Tuesday or Wednesday afternoon (I really can't remember which), I still had not heard from her. So I called her.

    By this time, I had already decided that even if I was offered the job - even at a higher base or with a sign on - that I would never accept. I would never want to work for a person who was so unprofessional. Who extends an offer to a candidate and then ghosts them? Not anyone I'm interested in working for.

    When I spoke with her, I didn't call her out on her ghosting or her unprofessional behavior.

    Now if I had accepted the position, I would be the person negotiating compensation with candidates on behalf of the company. Why would they want someone to work for them - who was responsible for negotiating - that wouldn't/couldn't negotiate?!

    Now I could look at this whole situation two ways:

    1. I blew up an offer by asking if there was any wiggle room on the base or any possibility of a sign on bonus.

    OR

    2. By asking about those things, I forced this hiring manager to A. reveal what kind of a boss she would be and B. what my job would be like recruiting for this company. Would she get her knickers all in a twist every time a candidate asked what I did?

    The thought also crossed my mind, would she be this unprofessional (she didn't even have the courtesy to withdraw the offer) and so bent out of shape if I was a man asking if there was any wiggle room?

    I consider this a bullet dodged and am very glad I found out the truth before I accepted the position.

    Don't rely on Glassdoor for comp info when doing research - there are other sites more data driven. Try Payscale and Salary.com- both use data provided by employers.

    Here's an article by the awesome Kristen Fife - anyone interested in salary negotiations or in a job search should follow her on LinkedIN for a perspective from a real life recruiter's point of view:

    Let’s Talk Offers, Salary Negotiation, and Compensation

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/lets-talk-offers-salary-negotiation-compensation-fife-she-her-hers-/

    I think my best advice on negotiating is not to be afraid. Yes, sometimes it can blow the deal up - as recently happened to someone on here - who was truly devastated.

    Even though negotiating comp is part of my job, it used to be harder for me to do it for myself.

    I get a lot of calls from offshore recruiters for positions that I'm not interested in. I negotiate with them all the time - negotiating for a position I don't want has been great practice and has made me pretty fearless about it.

    Please let me know if you have any questions.

    GOOD LUCK and keep us posted on what happens!!!

44. Janet ParkhurstFebruary 16,2022 at 4:28AM UTC

    Joan,

    Please do not apologize for your valuable contribution. I read it over and over again because, to me, it contains a wealth of information for anyone who is serious about being happy AND compensated appropriately. I KNOW I have allowed myself (for years) to work at a fraction of my value to the point it has become such a "habit," I have to ask myself why I am so afraid to state (and be proud of) my real worth. As it is now, I have gotten myself into a situation where the job "should only take 24 hours per week," but actually takes 35 to 40. Such a deal they're getting!

    I failed to get clarification from the get go. And that is how I wound up in a situation that is not only financially unfulfilling, but robbing me of precious self-esteem.

    I guess my point is, getting expectation up front in terms of how many hours you are expected to give to the role is equally important as compensation. No one wants to feel like an unpaid slave.

    Thank you, again, for your great advice. I will read it over and over again and apply it toward my next situation.

45. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistFebruary 16,2022 at 7:57PM UTC

    You're very welcome, Janet!

    My suggestion to you is to look at the interview process as a two way street. You should be interviewing the company and your future boss as much as you need to to feel comfortable making a decision.

    You need to decide what is important to you and drill down around those issues. Hours? Scope of work? What is your new potential boss's management style? What does it take to be successful at that company? What challenges will this person face? Why is the position open? What has the turn over in this role been? What resources are available to help you do what you need to do? What does training look like?

    These don't all get asked during the first interview but as you proceed through the process.

    Take a look back at your previous positions and see what made them not be a good fit for you and develop questions to drill down around those issues. Also - re-read the job description. Make sure to keep an eye out for any red flags and develop questions to address those.

    YOU SAID:

    " I have to ask myself why I am so afraid to state (and be proud of) my real worth."

    Yes, please do ask yourself that question and do some soul searching and try to find the answer.

    Personally, I think for a lot of women, it's fear. Fear that if I ask too many questions, they won't like me, they won't want to move forward with me as a candidate. I know not everyone has the luxury to be able to say this, but SO WHAT if they won't move you forward as a candidate. Take it as a bullet dodged and move on.

    As a recruiter with over 20 years experience, I rarely see men having these issues.

    Again, I know not everyone can do this - especially if you really really need a job (trust me, I have BEEN THERE), but for me I have found that not getting too invested in any one job, approaching actual interviews with enthusiasm but at the same time having a mind set that I don't want this job bad enough to sell myself short to get it, has really helped me.

    As I mentioned in my other post, negotiating with those offshore recruiters for positions I am not really interested in - to clarify, they are calling me mostly for contract roles and the FIRST thing I ask them about is the rate, this is not a long formal interview process - has made me much more fearless about discussing compensation and cutting to the chase of the responsibilities. And getting really good at saying, nope - that's not enough money or no, that's not a fit for me.

    And please don't let your self esteem be tied to your work - it's just a job you do, not who you are as a person.

    Please let me know if you have any questions or if I can help with your job search in any way.

    GOOD LUCK!!!

46. Janet ParkhurstFebruary 16,2022 at 11:45PM UTC

    Thank you so much for taking the time and care to reply to me, Joan. Again, SO helpful. And I really appreciated your great illustration of "practicing" via contract jobs you weren't really interested in, as a muscle building exercise toward saying "nope, that's not enough..." quickly and fearlessly.

    I can only say I did that once (recently!) and it was pretty empowering. As a freelance writer, I sometimes have professional connections inquire about my availability/willingness to do a project for them, which is great. Of course, the hardest part is coming up with an estimate that is both fair to the prospect AND worthy of my time and energies.

    Recently, I DID get to "practice" on a gentleman who wondered if I'd be available to write an article about a golfing tournament taking place in the Boston area, which is where I am from. I was put off from the beginning! His questions and conversations were geared toward the intensely personal, such as my marital status and dating history, my hobbies (did I like to cook and garden and other "housewifey" activities), and so on until I had to politely steer the conversation back to the business at hand. After we discussed his objectives with the magazine article, I said I'd send him a quote. I let a little time pass in order to get myself off the "I've-got-to-take-this-job!" hook and assess my true feelings about it. Well... I felt really irked about the personal focus. Was he looking for a writer or a date? (He was divorced.) Would he ask a man these questions? Was there even a "real" job? There probably was (maybe he wanted BOTH), but my next reaction? "I have zero interest in golf and would not be at all interested in attending golfing events as part of my research -- no matter how much the value of the free ticket(s) no matter how "high society" or upscale the people I could possibly meet, or where making rare, notable connections could take my career."

    I didn't want to do the work for him. So, instead of telling him the uncomfortable truth, I priced myself at what I felt was the true value of the assignment--and THEN some. It was easy, b/c I didn't really care. I think what I did was similar to the "practice" you embarked on.

    And I need to do that more often and more easily. There's nothing wrong with pricing yourself above the norm if you want to. Some writers have simply told me, the more boring or complex the assignment, the more they charge to compensate themselves for the "pain." So that's what I did. The funny thing was, had he agreed to my pricing, I WOULD HAVE DONE it.

    But guess what? I never heard from him, again. Talk about a bullet dodged! I saved myself the time and agony of doing work I disliked for probably half the monetary value and possibly none of the respect it would have/should have garnered.

    Anyway, I will print these conversations out in order to keep you handy as part of my arsenal of protectors and supporters. Thanks so much, again, for your incredible input and feedback. I so appreciate your taking the personal approach, as well.

47. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistFebruary 17,2022 at 12:17AM UTC

    Good for you, Janet! That's how you do it.

    YOU SAID:

    "Of course, the hardest part is coming up with an estimate that is both fair to the prospect AND worthy of my time and energies."

    Do you ask them what they have the project budgeted at? That's the first thing I would ask. Then when they tell you their budget, ask them if they have any wiggle room. And then shut up. Do not say anything until they answer. Don't be afraid of silence nor feel like you have to break the silence.

    Once they tell you their best budget number, then you can proceed to work up a proposal knowing that whatever you're going to ask for, you shouldn't be lowballing yourself.

48. Janet ParkhurstFebruary 18,2022 at 2:55AM UTC

    As usual, you are right on point. I usually (but not always) ask about budget, because that lifts the focus from my value to "what it costs." And it gives the prospect time to convey what they want to pay. As for the shutting up part, I know about that. There's an expression I learned from The Sandler Sales Institute that says, "He (or she) who speaks first, loses." So true. Thanks, again, Joan!

49. Maria Paula CalvoFebruary 16,2022 at 11:50AM UTC

    I understand perfectly well what you are saying. I am going exactly through the same feeling. I have decided to: 1) insist on learning the details about the role and the related challenges before answering with hard numbers, 2) ask the recruiter for their advice on this matter, 3) specifically ask for the company´s range, in this order. One aspect I always hightlight because it alings to my reality is the fact that understanding the challenge and agreeing that it is something that thrills me is more important for my decision making, the comp will be assessed under the perspective of that understanding so there is no way to bring numbers up front before any conversation. Hope this helps!

50. Mary MelloyFebruary 16,2022 at 2:22PM UTC

    If I am actively interviewing for a position, than I ask what the pay band is for the position I am being interviewed for. I also ask what benefits are included in the position .The recruiter for that position should be able to tell you that type of information. If they can't, then I will ask for 10% more than what I am making now.

    Personally, when looking at position, I know that my asking salary will be ~10% more than what I am making now. I also look at the benefits to see what is going to be applique to me. Many company's now are adding on benefits to attract or keep employees. However, if I am unable to use them, then they are of no value, thus not factored in to my asking salary. If the benefits are of value to me, then I will come up with a pay band of ~5-10% more than what I am currently making but it will include what I feel are the value of those benefits.

51. AnonymousFebruary 16,2022 at 4:43PM UTC

    I love this question. I am a recruiter and I duck this question every time I can, here's why:

    There is no good answer. Our range is wide, we usually hire around the midpoint but we are also known for going over if the right person presents. We want to pay market value but yet have you in line with those already working here. We do a comp analysis when we are putting an offer together, we take into consideration where you want to be along with the internal info and try our best to make a strong offer.

    Also, if I were to tell you the range is $60k with mid point of $85K and a max point of $110, the only number you will hear is $110 and you will be disappointed at any other number. We want you to be happy and we want you to accept.

    What I can tell you is that many people never ask to negotiate and they always should. Always! Its almost expected, and if you don't ask for more, you'll never know if there was room.

    So, when you ask the question and the recruiter asks where do you want to be know that they are trying to make sure you are somewhere in the wide range and not wasting your time.

52. Liz MilneFebruary 19,2022 at 6:40AM UTC

    Think of what you need to get by. Double it. Ask for that. Unless you're in a highly paid industry, in which case google 'average [industry] salaries in [place]' and ask for just below the highest figure you see there. But they should give you a ballpark, it's weird that they won't... :/

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    Make an offer of a salary commensurate with your qualifications tunnel rush. You can offer a reasonable salary to the employer.
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59. TARUN SAINIJanuary 25,2024 at 12:35PM UTC
    Well, it's obvious. Because they do not want to spend much on the employees. Being a recruiter, there priority is to save the company's cost. Having a DevOps Engineer Skills i have also faced this situation.