How do I choose a new employer after multiple frustrating experiences?

20 Comments

1. AnonymousAugust 27,2024 at 6:47PM UTC

   From your statement, "More than anything, I'm trying to avoid narcissistic leadership cultures, but I seem to gravitate toward them," this is something you can potentially get some help from mental health counseling. I discovered this type of pattern after leaving an abusive marriage, and one thing that scared me to death was that anyone I had talked to who had also escaped abuse had escaped it multiple times with different partners. When I asked my therapist about this, she stated that a pattern of attraction can cause this in relationships, and they need to identify the attraction first and then figure out how to manage or avoid it. It was a relationship, not a career/employment issue, but the same phenomenon may happen there.

2. AnonymousAugust 27,2024 at 9:29PM UTC

   Have you considered working for yourself or as a consultant so you can have more control at setting the tone and terms our the relationship?

3. Lea BeatriceAugust 28,2024 at 2:27AM UTC

   Try your best to talk to people who currently work there. Message them on LinkedIn or see if someone you interview with will connect you. Phrase it in a way that you want to learn more about the day to day. If I talk with someone who’s been there a while, I ask them what makes them stay.

   I like to ask how the manager measures success. How will I know, 6-12 months in, that I’m on the right track and doing a “good job”? The closer I get to the final round, I ask if the manager has any “star” performers that, if I get the job, I could learn from. This tells me a lot about what they value.

   From past experience, I have phrases that are red flags to me:

   -work hard play hard

   -its like a big family

   -anything about “multitasking” or “multiple top priorities”

   I like to work hard and I like to rest well. I’m not someone who feels like I need to “earn” my rest.

   Work is not a family. I have a family for that.

   It’s impossible to multitask well. And, by definition, there can only be 1 “top” priority. Employers who don’t understand that are likely to give you more work than can be accomplished in the time allotted and with high quality.

4. AnonymousAugust 28,2024 at 3:10AM UTC

   One way to "try out" companies is to work contract, and many contract positions can result in "full time" employment if the fit is good. If you can afford this financially, I have found it to be an excellent way to not only find a position I enjoyed, but also meet people at that position who ended up hiring me when they left the company; i.e. a good way to develop a better network than you are currently experiencing.Wishing you all of the very best!

5. AnonymousAugust 28,2024 at 1:08PM UTC

   I'm sorry for the disappointing and frustrating experiences. It sounds like you've recognized enough to know what you don't want - it's a matter of finding what you do.

   Seek the internet (even use ChatGPT) for prompts on how to uncover company /boss culture during an interview.

   Make sure your supports are secure (friends, family, hobbies, activities, spiritual, therapy, etc.).

   I recommend the book series "Designing Your Work Life" by Burnett and Evans - really great chapters to help with self awareness and the whole "what do I do now?" questions. Easy to read and great prompts to help point you in a direction that works for you.

   If your finances allow, you may wish to do Contract/Freelance work. It can allow for more distance as well as setting terms/boundaries.

   Books /Coaching / Therapy regarding boundary setting- whether it's tips for inward responses or outward expression. [FWIW- keep in mind negative impact. I once worked at one place for a long time which became increasingly toxic. I knew it and was trapped financially so I couldn't leave when I wanted. Years later, after I left, I realized how conditioned I became- so much so I didn't fully trust the new work environment (always anticipating a trap) in a place that was actually really nice- and sought therapy to help undo some of that thinking. I share in case it resonates.]

   From what you've expressed, you're doing a lot of great things - you're a human existing in a harsh environment and wanting it to be better. Trust the journey.

   Good luck!

6. AnonymousAugust 28,2024 at 3:20PM UTC

   We have a cross-section from the relevant team in any interviews (I do warn interviewees ahead of time), so the interviewee can see how we work together and to make sure that the current team doesn't see any red flags.

   I think that seeing how the team interacts helps with the interviewees' decision.

   Maybe you could ask to speak with potential teammates?

7. GirlBossanova934974August 30,2024 at 1:48PM UTC

   1) Consult Glassdoor.com 2) Pull up Google Reviews. A company with lots of customer complaints is going to have management problems 3) ASK tough questions during the interview.........Such as a) Is this a new role or a fill-in, why did the last person leave? b) describe in DETAIL your annual performance review process. WHAT do you reward in your organization? c) whose idea was it to create this role? d) WHAT individuals in your company are going to support this role? Are those resources available?

8. AnonymousSeptember 3,2024 at 7:09PM UTC

   Glassdoor can be a good indicator, but I do caution people from solely using Glassdoor reviews. People, especially a jilted employee, are much more likely to leave a negative review than a positive. If a company has 5000 employees but only 100 reviews - try to keep the context. I take into more consideration the reviews that are written more constructively which is a better sign of how a company regularly operates vs. a review that is perceived to be written from one instance. All still eye opening stuff to read and consider.

9. AnonymousAugust 31,2024 at 2:07PM UTC

   I'm also looking for good questions to ask so thanks for the post as I'm in the same exact place. The feeling of "PTSD" comes to mind when assessing new opportunities. Just remember, it's probably less about you and more that there are a lot of terrible work cultures out there.

   One question I would ask is about meeting cadence and contact. For example, if the hiring manager says he meets with his team daily and emails them hourly, then you know there is a micro-management problem.

   I would also ask about product innovation at the company. I worked at a place with decent people, but the products were from pre-2000. In an environment with declining revenues, people turn on each other more readily.

10. AnonymousAugust 31,2024 at 4:02PM UTC

    Ask tough questions about how they deal with conflict. Also try to find someone who has left the company in recent days. Don't bring your old baggage with you but also do find out how they internally communicate. Those types of questions will net you what you need.

11. AnonymousSeptember 1,2024 at 12:31PM UTC

    I went through the same thing and I do ask those tough questions but I too seem to attract all the monsters of corporate world. Managers that are insecure and abusive or just deceitful. I am working in retail now until I can figure out what I can tolerate anymore. If you can get people on linked in and ask them some culture questions too that might be helpful. Best of luck and keep trying and don’t let it tear you down

12. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netSeptember 1,2024 at 1:38PM UTC

    Maybe you are not cut out to work in that kind of environment. Maybe a one person office or start your own business.

13. khiana wileySeptember 2,2024 at 2:37PM UTC

    This is the same mentality that perpetuates and fortifies injustice and abuse in professional environments.

14. AnonymousSeptember 2,2024 at 12:56PM UTC

    I have worked in several sectors looking for a healthy work place (nonprofit, government, higher ed and corporate) but the least toxic was higher education for me, some would say otherwise. I wanted to stay there, but got laid off. My current company was horrible due to bad management but I was moved to another department and it much better so sometimes it’s the direct manager. Also be weary of Glassdoor reviews companies can pay more to get negative comments removed. Lastly, whenever a bunch of people from different backgrounds get together its going to be some mess but if you can find an environment that you can tolerate you are lucky and hold on it to because it is far and between. Also during the interview process I listen intently to the answers the direct manager gives if anything gives me red flag trust your intuition.

15. AnonymousSeptember 2,2024 at 2:27PM UTC

    Your story is my story. My professional career has been a train wreck. In a private conversation with your immediate supervisor, especially if it is a female, discuss the grand boss. If the immediate supervisor goes on at length about how much she respects and admires him for his brilliance, leadership or anything else, she may be office wife number one. This position does not necessarily require any sexual activity. If you are too good at your job, she will feel threatened and try to get rid of you.

16. AnonymousSeptember 2,2024 at 6:43PM UTC

    Word for word, I could have written this post.

    It's so unfortunate that evil and/or incompetent people are in upper management, with their minions at the ready to make life difficult - sometimes for whole groups of supposedly "protected-class" folks. The wrong-doers get to stay on, no consquence to themselves.

17. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMESeptember 3,2024 at 12:15AM UTC

    With over 30-years of experience in the business world and four-years of coursework in psychology -- I am comfortable saying that narcissism is on the rise.

    One of my psychology advisors showed me a copy of a book called "Snakes in Suits... When Psychopaths go to Work". The book is written by Paul Babiak Ph.D. (industrial psychologist), and Robert D. Hare, Ph.D. (criminal psychologist). Highly recommend reading.

    It helped me to understand why it was so difficult to communicate with some coworkers/managers. I live in a world of billions and some of my coworkers/managers live in a world of one. And, there is no communication style that can bridge this gap.

18. AnonymousSeptember 3,2024 at 7:17PM UTC

    SAME. Half the companies I have worked for are no longer in business. All for a variety of reasons but I have endured a lot. My current role played to my areas of interest and importance which resulted in mis-representing the entire company culture. It is disappointing for sure but there are other perks (compensation, flexibility). You get what the company wants to present, so while you can ask difficult interview questions, the responses can still be canned and you risk coming across as aggressive if not done right. If you reach out to former employees like other commenters have suggested, you could be opening Pandora's box. Is the former employee biased? Are they still connected with people in the org and will tell the hiring manager you were poking around? Just be cautious with that advice.

    Otherwise, do your best to research the company and digest the information from the interviews. Really think about responses - where they generic or seemed too good to be true? What topics were the interview questions focused on? Being in HR, if I am asked a lot about how I engage a workforce and retain talent, then I know there is low morale and bigger things happening that have resulted in high turnover. On one hand you know what you're walking into, but on the other, you don't know day to day behaviors and willingness to be open to new ideas and ways of doing things.

    Go with your gut - if you are leery - you can pull out of the process or you could openly speak about your concerns with the company and still have the opportunity to pull out after hearing their side. I have had several candidates reference Glassdoor ratings and asked me what contributed to those reviews. I think it's all about how you frame the question and making sure you're not speaking from a place of bias - give them the opportunity to respond.

19. Zenzelai 18September 3,2024 at 8:53PM UTC

    I agree. Sometimes they know the manager has a high turnover record, has OCD issues and just plain incompetent.

20. Patricia Lee CaprinoSeptember 3,2024 at 10:47PM UTC

    Hello, reading your post makes me reflect on my similar experiences. I worked for one of my employers for 17 years and decided to quit and seek other employment due to burnout and this company bringing on an acquisition. This acquisition brought on an HR rep who did not have the experience, skill-level, or education as I do and they let her become my boss. She made my life a living hell, so I removed myself from this situation and finally left after 17 years! Since that point moving forward I have worked for one workplace bully right after the other and frankly I am so fedup. I recently got laid off from my last employer (May 2024), ended up in the hospital to name a few of and it seems just goes on and on, but I refuse to give up. I encourage you to hang in there and not give up either. You can always reach out to me if needed.