So there's something new happening now about letters of references--some companies refuse to give them.

Anonymous

October 3,2021 at 4:22PM UTC

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So there's something new happening now about letters of references--some companies refuse to give them. That's the policy. Have you experienced this? What you need to provide to anyone who wants to check on you is the company ID number, your employee ID number, and a phone number. The person calls the number, gives the IDs and hears...what? I guess that you were employed from date X to Y, and your job title. And maybe that you were terminated voluntarily, involuntarily or that you left? I don't actually know what that person is entitled to know. How have you navigated this? For the penultimate job (where I was forever), I outlived all of my bosses and right before I left, a new supervisor was named, but she has no idea what I did for all of my years there and is a huge introvert who, when I asked if she'd be comfortable being a reference and she asked 'well how does that work?' and I told her I'd list her name, title, phone no. and email address, she started crying as soon as I hit 'phone number.' She's a major introvert and the thought of a stranger calling her, ever, about anything, was literally too much for her body and mind to handle. So that means about 28 years of work for which I have no one to vouch for me. I have jury rigged a professional reference and a personal one, but the whole 'provide 3 professional references' is not going to work for me. So, a. have you had to deal with the 'we don't give out refs' and b. what workaround have you come up with? Thanks. ps: The whole 'we don't give refs' has an unintended consequence. I am NOT suggesting you lie (about what you accomplished or what projects you worked on) but I mean, who would know? No one could contradict you. Again, I am not saying I'd lie. But again, I'm also saying no one would really ever know....

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KatOctober 3,2021 at 5:34PM UTC
First off, your boss is being completely ridiculous if the thought of talking on the phone makes her cry. I'm an introvert and do it all the time. Sounds like there's something else going on there. Professional references don't have to be just supervisors. They can be current (or former) co-workers, colleagues from other companies that you've worked with, friends from professional organizations or people you've worked with on volunteer projects (like a bake sale, fundraiser, campaign, etc.), or anyone else that knows you well enough to answer questions about you work history & the type of person/worker you are. So reach out to friends and colleagues now to get your references up to date. Legally, I believe that if a company doesn't want to give you a reference all they can say is dates you worked there but nothing else about your time there. So don't worry about your past being "erased". Focus on the present and do some networking to get a new job.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 4:30AM UTC
Trust me when I tell you there's nothing else going on there. I worked with the woman every day (as colleagues) for 24 years and she never once spoke to me on her own. Every day I'd walk by and say Good morning and she'd quietly say the same back, and that was it. SHe's just....honestly, that job attracted nothing but introverts. As an extrovert, that was never the best fit for me but I stayed for other reasons. I recently told an old colleague that this woman started to tear up at the thought of a phone call and the colleague said: Yup, sounds like her. It's so extremely frustrating. thanks for saying that prof resources don't have to be job related only.. I hope that's true. I do a LOT of volunteering . What do other people think, please?
Debra WheatmanOctober 3,2021 at 6:52PM UTC
A lot of companies have a no reference policy, meaning that when an employee leaves, HR can be contacted to provide dates of employment and title - that's it. What you might consider is reaching out to people you know - those with whom you worked in the past (it's fine if they've moved on) to serve as a reference for you when the time comes. Always be sure to reach out to people in advance if you are going to use them as a reference to discuss the elements of the job and what you will be doing so they can serve as the best reference possible.
Good luck!
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 4:19AM UTC
Yes thanks....there is literally no one at my last job who will work for this, and then there's the introvert at the last gig, and only her. It's not a great feeling. I'm trying to think outside the box, but I can't hae all of my references be personal ones, you know?
AnonymousOctober 3,2021 at 7:06PM UTC
There’s a difference between references and employment verification. References are people you worked with/for in the past that can speak to your accomplishments, skillset, strengths, etc. You don’t have to currently work with them/for them. Employment verifications simply verify that you did work for a company and for how long.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 4:17AM UTC
Fair enough. My last employer will only verify employment and will not allow my boss to be contacted or even named. It's simply against policy. I've been researching this a bit today--it's a trend ad one that, of course, started in the US. *sigh*
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 4:23AM UTC
jesus, that's a lot of references. I believe my supervisor would have given me a good reference but I'm not allowed to give his name out (nor would I ask him to break policy). And I don't have any clients, I don't do that kind of work. Essentially, I'm going to have to fudge things a bit, something which I really hate. It's nutty b/c I have a lot of people who rave about me but again, I can't have nothing but personal refs. I've only worked 2 jobs, the first was for 24 years and I outlived everyone there!
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 4:54PM UTC
Can you ask a prior supervisor? Not to be rude, but it's a smidge ridiculous that someone in a managerial role can't handle a short phone call. She seems not cut out for her job, but that's beside the point. You could also see if they might be willing to receive a letter or email of recommendation from her instead. Also might be nice because then you can hold on to the letter.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 11:40PM UTC
I know it seems ridiculous. I agree. I had lunch with another colleague today and the topic came up (he wants to be a reference for me, but he was never a full supervisor, but it'll have to do). Anyway I mentioned the issue and he said: Oh I remember her. I stopped talking to her b/c she'd never make eye contact with me or answered me --yes, they hired her b/c she's a 'yes woman' I think, and she didn't even have a resume or anything. She didn't have to interview. She really had no idea what the job was in terms of the 'hard stuff'--the interpersonal things. . So...yeah. I did have a letter drafted when I left and mgmt agreed to use it. I recently sent it to her to remind her it existed (I had said a copy was available to her in HR so she could see the original and be sure it was the one mgmt agreed to as opposed to something I was sending her) but she indicated she didn't know how to get a copy of the letter. So I sent her the letter via email. It's a pdf. She didn't know how she'd send that out via email. I mean...it's been a challenge. My prior supervisor retired then passed away. The one before him...that would be a solid 15 years ago and we're not in touch. I'm not sure if she's alive. I think she'd have good things to say, but I also don't know that a supervisor from 15 years ago would carry value and I literally have no real idea of how to reach her. I have really been wracking my brain to think of people. Do you agree that a professional reference doesn't have to be someone from a paid job?
AnonymousOctober 5,2021 at 3:25PM UTC
So sorry you're going through that. I would say a reference needs to be somebody that you did relevant work with. That being said, I do list several of my college colleagues as references (provided that we worked on projects together). I think your former colleague would make a fine reference.
AnonymousOctober 5,2021 at 4:28PM UTC
thanks. Just now I emailed a woman who trained me at my last poisition. She was not my boss, but knows what the work was and can vouch that I did it (not perfectly sadly but I certainly did it and was uber productive). I asked if she'd consider being a reference and if she was comfortable with that. So fingers crossed. We get along very well and she's a lovely woman. B/c she was also laid off, she doesn't have to follow any policy.
AnonymousOctober 4,2021 at 11:46PM UTC
I know. I was shocked. But it's the policy and I think it would be a very poor idea to try to get around it. I'd never heard of this before, but I've since heard from a number of people that it's not that uncommon. Recently I did incl the last boss' name but put clicked 'no' to the 'can we contact....?/' question. I didn't really have a choice but wanted the hiring people to at least have the info so they know I didn't make up my whole last position. Another issue: I've been working full time for 27 years in career jobs but only 2! I stayed at my first one for almost 24 years. So i didn't have a lot of people to choose from. When I say I outlived pretty much everyone at job 1, I mean it!.
AnonymousOctober 5,2021 at 4:34PM UTC
I've only had 2 employers in 27 years which is the problem I think. Or at least it's not a help. But I do volunteer so that's something to try to follow up with more. THanks.