I felt publicly shamed by my boss.

I felt publicly shamed by my boss. I am a new employee and at one of our team meetings recently, my boss questioned why my project had issues and kept asking me questions on my approach including having dig up documents for her review at the meeting. The spotlight set on me for 15 minutes in a room with other colleagues and it felt like she was being accusatory that my approach led to the problems in my project. However in fact, it was a misalignment on the leadership level. My direct manager may not have aligned with my boss causing her to be confused. Perhaps her line of questioning came from a place of confusion. I didn’t feel that her approach was appropriate and should have been handled privately as I felt uncomfortable being called on the spot. The fact that I was a new employee would mean this would be a good opportunity to teach me any correct approaches. Ultimately she acknowledged the issues from leadership and will address them with leadership. I have seen her do this line of questioning with others making others feel uncomfortable, nervous, and doubtful of their own skills.

How should I handle this the next time it happens to me?

I feel that it is my manager’s responsibility to align with my boss, but should I go out of my way to align with my boss to ensure nothing like this happens again?

My boss has left a bad taste in my mouth. I already had imposter syndrome coming into this job. How do I not let this bother my self esteem?

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41 Comments

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  1. Lisa

    Speak to your direct manager to ensure that s/he is aligned with both you and their manager so that this doesn't happen again.

  2. Nancy

    I had it happen to me by an SVP and VP (the the same time), my manager was out of the office when it happened . I was so stunned I couldn’t say anything. If I had a do over I would have said what I wished they had the professional courtesy to say “let’s sync after this meeting and I can do a deep dive with you on the details, I don’t want to get this meeting off track”. That might not work all the time but she should have known better. I’m currently trying to exit my toxic organization. …because what happened to me happens to others and I would never allow it in my personal life, I won’t allow it in my professional life

  3. Heather Macone

    Your manager will not know their missteps unless they are pointed out. That being said, carefully and thoughtfully curating your comments back to them will be key here. There are ways to present shortcomings in a positive way.
    Here is an article that may help: https://www.inc.com/jayson-demers/the-7-golden-rules-of-how-to-give-criticism-without-sounding-like-a-jerk.html

  4. Kailyn James

    My solution would be to just be ready at all times to defend my work. If your boss has done that to others, it’s quite possible that even if it’s brought to their attention, it probably won’t change. Don’t take it personal, just be ready and if you can defend your work , they’ll have NOTHING to say. I take more of a “stay ready so you don’t have to get ready” approach. If you show them you’re prepared and that putting you on the spot doesn’t rattle you, they’ll be like oh this girl knows her stuff and they’ll have more confidence in you going forward, imo.

  5. Anonymous

    I have worked in an office where I always had to “be ready” to defend my work and while it sounds like a good solution, it was a very toxic environment and boundaries were not enforced. Inevitably there will be a time when you make a mistake or a problem occurs and in my case there was no way to work through it in a healthy and professional manner.

  6. Anonymous

    So, my take might be a bit different. She was deflecting. She wanted to make you look bad, rather than admit there was an issue with leadership. She SHOULD have said early on, "Why don't we chat after the meeting." Of course, you could have said, "This is a bit too involved to resolve in a meeting. Can we schedule some one-on-one time after the meeting?" Yeah, me too, I never think of these things while I am in the middle of the situation. Go to her now, say that you felt put on the spot and it felt uncomfortable. Ask her if you can now have a meeting to clear any confusion up.

    Now that you KNOW she does this, right down possible responses in your note taking journal so you can remember to say them. I do this. My boss also loves to put people on the spot so I put in my journal things I could say. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. She seems to find new and creative ways to put people on the spot. Good luck.

  7. TomBooley

    Why are so many bosses horrible these days?

  8. Karen lindquist

    How do you not let it bother your self-esteem? Face it and ask yourself if there is anything you could have done differently, paid more attention to.
    I think your statement that you already had imposter syndrome is important. Why do you feel this way?
    At the end of the day, self esteem is something that you only get from within. So, let’s say your boss is not handling their job with much grace or interpersonal skills. We’ve all probably been there.
    This shouldn’t undo your own view of yourself and your abilities, as long as you KNOW you are doing a good job, applying yourself, and that you are not the one mis-stepping.
    I find that my employees get very flustered and don’t really listen when i start to question them about their approach or how something was done incorrectly.
    Now, to be fair, THEY should know how to do their job. And with what they do, a lot is common sense. Or just being aware that they do not exist in a bubble or vacuum and that their approach and end result effects my clients and me and often their co-workers as well.
    I hear a lot of “it’s not fair” from grown people these last few years. I ask them to put themselves in my shoes or my clients shoes or their co-workers shoes, and ask themselves, “what is fair?”
    Is it fair if you don’t know your job but you feel others are responsible for how you feel? Is it fair to always blame your boss for your feelings, as if they are supposed to operate in some manner that never confronts employees or questions/corrects anyone for fear of damaging their emotions?
    I’m not trying to be snide or mean. I’m just pointing out that what you say at the end seems to be the question you are asking, and that is how not to let it dent your self esteem.
    My answer to that is to learn your job really well, ask questions when in doubt of things, and clarify going into a project or along the course of it any questions.
    Don’t assume anything and make a good, open effort.
    If the boss or manager is not doing their job, this will shake them out and expose that.
    Basically document your path.
    And know that your feelings about yourself and others is something only you can control. So that is good news.
    As for imposter syndrome, that usually happens when you don’t have the experience you need or have claimed to have that got you there.
    So is that true in your case? Is that why you feel sensitive?
    In that case you might wanna work on your time to get to a place where you feel you absolutely have the skills.
    But we’ve all felt that feeling even when we are skilled. Sometimes we just sell ourselves short.
    Just be honest with yourself, and do what you need to do in order to feel confident.
    If you ask questions going in, document exchanges along the way, and if it comes up in meetings be honest and show how you got to the finished result.

  9. Rae Wagoner

    Unpopular opinion: is it possible that you and this project were simply tools that were used to correct your manager?

  10. EugeniaWolf

    I’m sorry this happened. I would be furious!
    Sounds like your direct manager was feeling a bit torn in the meeting as well and wasn’t sure how to navigate between her new hire and boss; sometimes we have to manage up to protect our own feelings and emotional sanity. One way to do this is to gently give our managers guidance on how to proceed if this happens again.

    Heather and Nancy have given some great advice.

    I’ll add to that by telling you my story (something similar happened to me a few times) and maybe it will help. I had a junior manager shame me in front of a group of clients once… with a harsh correction shouted across the table during training. I had done a very minor thing that wasn’t completely consistent with in-house brand standards, but was still industry standard, and by no means disruptive, unacceptable or noticeable by a client. (She could easily have let it slide without any consequences.) I pulled her aside and said: ‘I felt really embarrassed when you corrected me in front of the client. I know during this phase of training there are still a lot of details to flesh out. I still have a lot to learn and I really appreciate your detailed training and feeedback. Not only do I appreciate it, I need it! My success depends on it, and it will serve me well in the future…. For next time can you please pull me aside just like we are doing now and tell me in private? —Just so that I don’t have to feel embarrassed in front of a group of clients.”

    She understandably got a little defensive e at first, I cut her off and said: “I understand you were just doing your best to train me and I really appreciate and need your help, there is nothing wrong with what you said, you were completely and utterly right to correct me, and I hope you will keep correcting me and letting me know my mistakes in future… but let’s do it in private so I won’t have to feel embarrassed. I really don’t want to feel embarrassed like that again.” She tried to fight me a bit again, and I just shook my head and said “I just felt really bad, and really embarrasssed” She said ok and we moved on, and she did tell me things privately going forward, rather than shouted across the room in front of clients.

    This manager was an emotionally considerate person, and became a great friend. She didn’t like the idea of making mistakes, but an even scarier thought for her was the idea of hurting someone’s feelings. She was not the type of person to enjoy seeing a coworker or anyone around her feeling hurt or ashamed. This approach to resolution may not have worked if she was a cruel or selfish person. and though I could tell she was stung by my frankness, but it was a part of my personality she came to appreciate. She later appreciated having a go-to senior manager who she knew was always honest and up front with her.

    I’ve had similar interactions happen with a cruel manager who took visible glee in shaming trainees… If you work for a truly cruel sociopath who takes pleasure in hurting others… and clear communication about your feelings isn’t changing anything, or even making it worse… then it is time to get out. But if these are reasonable and compassionate people, try to be brave and speak your truth. Good people will want to make sure you are happy and ok at work. Hiring is a long, expensive and inconvenient process, so they should be making a real effort to help you succeed and feel comfortable. I know it takes a lot of courage, but Public shaming is bad management. They might feel momentary shame for being called out or challenged, but you need to find ways to communicate with your team when things like this arise. Don’t let fear and impostor syndrome turn you into a quiet mouse who puts up with abuses. This was a wrong approach on their part and Heather is right that it will keep happening if it doesn’t get challenged right away,

  11. Matthew Domer

    That's so frustrating. It seems no one follows the practice of praise publicly and criticize in private, at least when it's an individual. If it was the entire team, that team should be criticized with no other teams present.

    I'm guessing your employer is either old fashioned or narcissistic. In either case, building morale and maintaining employee happiness is difficult for a lot of those types.

  12. Intrapsych

    You're not wrong to feel the way you do. And Your right about how meetings should not be used to point people out, unless it's praising someone, of course.

    Do you feel comfortable approach this person in private?
    Could you express how the attention on you in meetings makes you uncomfortable? Do you think this person would accept your request to meet alone to answere their questions? I think it would help to somehow convey how your feeling about this.

  13. Anonymous

    I’m going to say something possibly unpopular. Perhaps the boss was just genuinely interested in figuring it out, and it simply didn’t occur to her that you’d feel embarrassed. I am often so comfortable in front of my team that I do have to catch myself to avoid saying too much in front of people. I assume they all know how highly I regard them and that it’s just business. Give the boss a chance to be self aware; she just might surprise you.

  14. Laura Hanchett

    Agreed... it just may also be not that :) Great suggestion... I put some ideas in my posting.

  15. Maggie Stone

    I definitely don’t blame you for feeling angry and defensive and like you were being interrogated. Not a fun or comfortable situation at all. Sounds like she could have handled this with more sensitivity, discretion, and tact. Were any of the questions accusatory (I.e Why didn’t you door think of x,y,z?)? If not, is it possible that she was trying to find out what went wrong?

  16. Anné Leonard

    The rule for professional conduct is ALWAYS "praise publicly and criticize privately".

    You are within your rights to explain to somebody how public criticism affected you and how you would like a similar situation to be handled in future. Keep calm when delivering this message. Also listen to the response. Show emotional intelligence.

    Then always treat others according to the rule above.

  17. Anonymous

    Firstly, it sounds like your manager and boss are not communicating well. Or, one of them might be communicating and the other person is not listening well. Regardless, you are attacked in a meeting- put on the defensive- without your boss knowing/understanding all the facts. That is bad on her, not you. I think you realize this but you also feel demoralized and a bit threatened by her style. I get it. Sadly, this happens all too often in the world of business; we are dealing with all types of people and those above us are not always the best choice for a management position, but that's what you get (reminds me alot of doing "group projects" in college- there were always the slackers who still ended up getting an "A" with the rest of the group). Yeah, the business world is all about working on "group projects", learning how to get along "and" do the work that needs to be done. My advice is to watch and wait out this situation. SAY NOTHING. you're pretty new there, and you're just learning the ropes of the organization. YOu're still learning about yourself. Your hide (skin) isn't tough yet. Been there/done that. I'm 60 now and a far tougher gal than I was at 30 or 40. It takes years to not feel like an imposter, and years to roll with the crap of business 101. But my first piece of advice is to not take ANY of this personally; someone might have been having a bad day and came to the meeting unprepared and jumped your case without good reason. Let it slide. If it becomes a pattern over time, you can put stops in place. Not now. And don't take any of this personally AT ALL. I wish someone had told me this 30 years ago. It's ruff out there. Good luck and keep us posted!

  18. Lisa Soiett

    Your response in the future should be (my opinion): "Sorry ma'am, it won't happen again", and move on. It isn't your bosses job to care about your feelings in a meeting. OK, your feelings were hurt, move on and try to not let it happen again. Your boss won't "public shame" you again.

  19. Laura Hanchett

    If your manager is a power player, she may give up all her power... If she was in the wrong, OK, but if not... I'd argue, don't give up your power so early in working for someone.

  20. Anonymous

    Her manager should not have put her on the spot like that. Also, the manager and her boss need to communicate better with each other.

  21. Shelby C

    I am sorry that you feel this way. I do not want to dismiss your feelings. How we feel isn't ever wrong; however, I do want you to attempt to see this from another perspective. It could be possible that you are already, understandably, feeling vulnerable because of the newness and Imposter Syndrome. Then, her actions amplified your feelings. Although she could've handled it better, she could have been seeking information.

    When I have been in team meetings, it is not uncommon for the supervisor/lead to run the meetings and ask everyone questions. A lot of times it is as simple as seeking a status or needing clarification on a situation. While shaming is always wrong there is a way to approach it so the employee does not feel bad, the team is kept up to date, and everyone has a chance to learn from any kind of process improvements taking place. Also, I have found that while discussing issues with a team, we will often find more creative solutions that actually work better from those who are familiar with the systems, but are not in that particular job function.

    If it is going to effect your productivity and you think it has crossed past the actions I listed above, I would begin documenting it in detail. Then, I would speak frankly with your boss, but don't use accusatory language. That will only cause them to shutdown. Keep everything to the I/feel/felt/found or When you/I have found I feel structures. That will take the pressure off of the situation and if this person has an ounce of compassion and emotional intelligence, they will realign their behaviors.

    If it continues, once you have a few documented cases, I would take it up with HR or your boss' manager - it is about who you feel comfortable opening up to that will make a change. When I have previously had employees in situations similar to theirs, we have done one or a combination of the following:
    1) Give the manager unpaid leave
    2) Send the manager to training
    3) Removed the manager from their position via transfer or demotion - sometimes both
    4) Terminated the manager
    5) Given the employee a settlement if they decide to depart
    6) Given the employee paid leave due to emotional stress
    7) Transferred the employee to a new position
    8) Basically leave everything the way it is, but have the employee report directly to the manager's boss so contact is limited or eliminated
    9) Mysteriously laid off one or both (I refused to take part in that one)

    Now, to speak to the Imposter Syndrome. It usually stems from depression, so please find someone to speak with. Depression is a healthcare crisis. There is NO shame in reaching out. I know that you suffer from low self-esteem and fear of failure. I can only imagine how being singled out could make that worse. I am sorry that you are struggling. I am a Type A, OCD, over-achiever, so I can relate. I attempt to only compare myself to the person in the mirror. I am much happier that way.

    You got where you are on YOUR own merits. Even if someone else "gave" you a job to get where you are along the way, you kept it. They decided to keep you. Please keep reminding yourself that you are truly good at what you do or you wouldn't be there. That is reality although you may not feel that way. If you need to, remind yourself multiple times a day until you believe it like a positive affirmation.

  22. Anonymous

    I agree with most of your advice. However,unless you are a psychiatrist or psychologist who has studied the root causes of Imposter Syndrome it is reckless for you to say in most cases it is rooted in depression. You can give advice but don't play mental health therapist.

  23. Shelby C

    While you may think that you are arguing with me, you clearly aren't. You are arguing with a scientifically proven fact. I am sorry if my comment struck a nerve with you or anyone else. If it did, I kindly ask that you ask yourself why for your own emotional health and wellbeing. As women, especially, we tend to take care of our needs last. As a result, our mental health is frequently pushed aside, but it is healthcare too.

    I have a degree in Neuroscience which is essentially a double major of Biology and Psychology. My minors are in Sociology and Early Childhood Development. My original plan was to become a Pain Management Physician and they are traditionally trained in the exact same program as Neurologists and Psychiatrists (some go the anesthesiology route); however, I had to drop out of med school.

    I took those skills and applied them elsewhere.

    During my career, I was paid to assess people’s character for a living. I never made a bad call. I never claimed to be a mental healthcare professional; however, if you did the research you would know that the very root of the syndrome is depression that it is often accompanied by the comorbidities of anxiety coupled by feelings of guilt. I also spent most of my career over HR, so I was the workplace therapist by default.

    I also began counseling and mentoring people about their personal, spiritual, and professional lives over two decades ago when I went into ministry and then through a NPO I started.

  24. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    I'm not familiar with any research correlating imposter syndrome and depression. What I know of is more about perfectionism and strict measures of success, often rooted in family stuff: https://psichologyanswers.com/library/lecture/read/233072-what-causes-impostor-syndrome#0

  25. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    Sorry, no idea why the link doesn't work:
    https://psichologyanswers.com/library/lecture/read/233072-what-causes-impostor-syndrome

  26. Kristie White

    This is great advice and so very ON target. Project teams can be tricky - and some managers/bosses/leads use the public forum too aggressively when they are trying to gain insight into projects' statuses. It is also sometimes used as a technique to make a project lead up their game so they are not called out in the team meeting for poor project management. In addition, I would prepare more defensively for each team meeting. Study your project and try to anticipate the questions your boss/manager might ask in the meeting so you won't be caught off guard.
    At the end of the day, this may be a testing ground for your leadership skills. You need to know your project well, be on top of the statistics, and be able to defend your decisions or propose an understanding of the challenges with potential solutions including speaking truth to management. You aren't born with these skills so your experience teaches you and you will get stronger. You can do it!

  27. Shelby C

    You are so correct. You shouldn't ever go to your superior with a problem, with the exception of something that has the potential to be cataclysmic, unless you have a solution. Otherwise, you sound like a complaining employee instead of one that cares about process improvement and is solutions oriented.

  28. Christy Valdeon

    Great feedback….

    Know your worth and value and all else will fall into place. Keep your eye on the prize and do not ever EVER let anyone see you sweat!

  29. Laura Hanchett

    I haven't read all comments, but do have the following ideas for you. 1. If someone/anyone makes you feel uncomfortable, it's OK to ask if you may address this now or later in a private conversation. 2. It's OK for you to defend yourself & I find the best way is to ask questions back - i.e. 'How would you have addressed it? ....wait....I see, the reason I didn't do that was X' 3. You may wish now/later to bring up with your mgr. 1x1 that her approach made you uncomfortable - you can say, "I'm sure that wasn't your goal..." and see what she says.4. If that person male/female thinks 'belittling' others gives her a sense of 'power' or thinks people can't learn without being 'yelled at' it's about that person.. not you. You can try something like saying - I know that you have golden nuggets in your head and that you want to get the group to follow, but when you... 'X' it takes me 30-60 minutes to get out of defense mode to be able to listen to you. I've notice Y, Z, A, B, C also seem to close down... perhaps we can try (and then have something in mind you suggest...).
    BTW, none of these may work, but you can mix/match/try etc. - you may be working for a bully or someone defending his/her own honor and under pressure. He/she may not be able to respond well... you may wish to keep your eyes peeled for something or someone new in case. Good luck!

  30. Anonymous

    I would speak to my boss and ask that this sort of questioning/conversation be done in private. I would mention that I am happy to explain my thought process and approach, but would prefer to do so in private. If you feel uncomfortable with doing so, perhaps have the conversation with your manager. If the issue is not resolved, speak with HR.

  31. Anonymous

    I'm curious about how new your 'manager' is to managing. My current manger was recently promoted to her position and behaves very much like this. Her people skills are seriously lacking and she is all about charts and technology. She is often curt, rude and accusatory and oblivious about it. She can NEVER read the room. She's also a know-it-all in every situation. It's tiring and terrible for morale.

    Don't doubt yourself. You are not defined by your job, or one person's poor management skills. Life is too short to feel limited by these petty, trivial moments. And believe me, I internally roll my eye so hard on a daily basis it is a physical workout. Eventually she will 'promote' far and away from my sphere. Until then, I take the money and benefits gladly, and her not that seriously.

  32. EMILY KIKUE FRANK

    I think others have said something similar, but I would recommend you start with a private conversation with your boss. She may not have intended to put you on the spot (or she may have), but this gives you a chance to explain the difficulties you're having with the manager without that turning into a shaming exercise. Then you can ask your boss for advice in dealing with these issues in the future. That puts the ball back in her corner, while also reminding her not to criticize people publicly.

  33. Valentina Huang, MBA, SHRM-CP

    I'm sorry to hear you felt publicly shamed. That's never a good feeling. While there could be multiple reasons (granted not any valid reason in your mind at this point), why your boss took this approach, I think this is a pivotal point in your relationship with your boss. Request a 1:1 meeting. Discuss what recently happened at the team meeting and how you did not appreciate how it was handled. If there in fact issues and you are the project manager (regardless of it was your error), take ownership. Explain what happened and next steps on how to make sure this issue is either rectified and/or will not happen again. See how your boss responds. Your boss might acknowledge issues that they (too) could address. Bosses are human. I believe that people expect bosses to be/act a certain way but at the end of the day, they are also still evolving. Let's not let our pride get in the way; at least not early on. If there are other indicators besides this one incidence, then you may want to re-evaluate if this is the right position/company for you. In the meantime, ride the wave of being a newbie. After all, this is the best time to make 'mistakes'. You can only get better from this point.

  34. Tami L Cannizzaro

    Like others, I want to acknowledge your feelings. They are real and may be difficult to manage. I've had those feelings myself. Some perspective, and using the best advice a colleague provided me: Our boss' are also reporting to a boss, and that person wants answers. What's going on with all the people and projects in your department? If your boss doesn't have a firm grip on the details her boss is asking questions about, then she's nervous and is going to ask a ton of questions of you. Which may come across as shaming. More than likely, she's desperately trying to be prepared for her boss OR report back. How to prevent this, or subdue it? Feed her a constant stream of information. Anticipate what she'll need and make sure you get it to her before she knows she needs it, so when her boss asks about the project, she feels ready. IF she asks something new in the meeting, you have more confidence in your own abilities to answer her questions because you know you've been feeding her information. Also, don't be afraid to nicely "question her questions" - "Do you mean the data we discussed on Monday, or did I misunderstand what you wanted me to provide? Happy to get you something different once I get back to my desk, as I have that information".
    Or something like that. Usually a boss just wants to know that we are on top of things, and can provide the information she needs to convey to her boss.

  35. Sarah Larson

    Like many others have said. Your feelings are valid. And, I agree, keep them in the loop with consistent updates and communication. That said, that is a solution to the why behind the outburst but not a remedy.
    In that, acting like that-calling another employee, let alone a subordinate, out in front of colleagues is unprofessional. IMHO. If you have a trusting relationship with your boss, when you explain how you plan to keep her updated so it does happen again. Tell her how she made you feel. Explain that you’re concerned that if she continues to act this way she will create a negative reputation for your team which will cause a whole slew of repercussions.
    In sum, solve the problem but also point out the potential consequences of her actions. If she is unresponsive or dismissive, go to her boss about it when it inevitably happens again.

  36. Beverly Ruyle

    It's simple. She wasn't prepared. Next time there is a meeting, arrange a pre-meeting with her to download the information and to make sure you are both on the same page. This way you both avoid the hot seat.

  37. Anonymous

    Asking about a project in a team meeting is kind of the point of the meeting. Being asked about your project is not shaming you and you were able to show that the issues aren’t with your approach.

  38. Holly W. Lewis Coaching

    Have a conversation about it. Don't assume that they "should" know how you want to be treated. Approach it from a curiosity perspective and ask what can be done to make the next meeting more productive for all of you.

  39. Anonymous

    That's interesting that you have a direct manager and a boss. Are you a contract worker? This person could be trying to challenge you on some other level.

  40. Anonymous

    This happened to me exactly as described and included my line manager allowing the team to intimidate me, never mind that I was coming in midway a project and bringing in expertise the team didn't have. This resulted to self doubt and I wondered if I were at the right place. This carried on to having my email and phone communication ignored and responses delayed, approvals delayed by my line manager. 1 year nightmare, and very disrespectful team and senior manager. Even after I trained them to better appreciate my role and the value my expertise was bringing into the project, the team only toned the bullying down but continued to give me a cold shoulder. I chose to stay because I chose the employer and I loved my job plus I brought my concerns to the HR and he was very supportive. I have come to think that managers and teams who have no idea how your role/expertise works feel threatened. If you love your job, focus on doing your best, engage with HR (in my case my line manager could not hold a conversation with me so I gave up after trying severally) and deliver results. Success will speak for you.

  41. Peg Bittner

    First, wether you are a new or seasoned employee no one should be put under the hot lights like you have been with a crowd sitting around. You are not a prisoner of war. As for the reason for the grilling it appears to be a lack of communication between everyone involved and leaves you out the flow on how the project should flow. If it is feasible both of you nature and timetable wise, you could ask for an organizational meeting and get the facts straight on how this project needs to be done. Let them know you are a person who sees any of your work to the finish and wants any issues brought up at the time they are noticed than months down the line. You are team player and want to be seen as that. It is your project so let them see you as the owner and responsible for it

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