DISCUSSIONS

HELP! Inherited a difficult employee.

Anonymous Image

Anonymous

Welcome to Fairygodboss!

We’re the largest online career community helping women achieve their career goals. Gain access to articles, jobs, events, and a supportive network of women and allies. Membership is free, always.

HELP! Inherited a difficult employee. I tolerated her throwing her hand up and saying I'm stressing her out at the beginning because no one likes to change. Morale in her department is in the dumps. I'm just over 7 months at this company and we've had 2 of the 4 employees under her quit. One of the newer ones came to me today to let me know she was turning in her resignation at the end of the week and didn't want to blindside me. I'd like to think I have shown her and the rest of the team that I'm not going to throw out changes and challenges, tell them to deal with it, and then hide back in my office while they deal with all the aftershocks. I've told her many times that I'll have her back with how she wants to run the department and worked really hard with her to understand that delegation doesn't mean she can't do it, just that she can't do it all. Upper management, other directors who have to deal with her, and even the general public we serve have expressed their displeasure on more than one occasion when working with her. I found out my predecessor left after 18 years because she could no longer work with her. When corrective steps, every word, gesture, tone, etc. has to be measured so as to not set off a timebomb and having her blow up at her subordinates and/or find her crying in the bathroom. The manager in me wants to put her on a performance improvement plan but where do I even start with someone who takes offense at anything and everything you say (and every gesture, facial expression, etc.) Have I failed her as a manager because I can't get through? Or did it go too far when my predecessor left without making the corrections? (And yes, upper management supported my predecessor, she just didn't want to deal with it and pretty much gave her free reign.) ANY input would be appreciated.

Why women love us:

  • Daily articles on career topics
  • Jobs at companies dedicated to hiring more women
  • Advice and support from an authentic community
  • Events that help you level up in your career
  • Free membership, always

Like

49 comments

Share

Share your insight

Join an authentic community that helps women support each other at work. Share your professional experience or ask for advice — you can even post anonymously.

49 Comments

Join the conversation
  1. Anonymous

    You've been there 7 months. You may be contributing to a long history of enabling and ignoring.

    Speak with leadership as a whole and ask for feedback. Summarize you historical findings, current situation along with suggestions on future changes and SOLUTIONS. You must have buy-in or you are out in the cold. Don't rely too heavily on opinions on past events and interpretations of why others have left. That is opinion unless they spoke up, documented or discussed their struggles.

    You are a manager and this is now yours to solve. Inform your leadership and invite as much feedback as possible before designing your strategy. Execution should be done with HRs blessing. You MUST NOT do anything on your own.

    If no one wants to offer support and leadership shows no interest. Then stand down and accept that you must allow her full reign over the business.

    You'll need to resign yourself to looking for a new job. This is not a one person crusade.

  2. Anonymous

    Understood. Upper management is 100% on board with offering a PIP but had a trip planned out of the country. We hired two new accounting clerks in the other area I supervise. They've been on two weeks now, so two more weeks will get their knowledge base a little higher for the to work independently in case I'm forced to spend more time with the other side to quail fires from her departure and develop a communications plan. We are at will but government so sticky wicket rules.

    Someone who has done a PIP before do you list all 942 issues or do you pick like the top ten, letting her know some of the other issues would be addressed later? Or do you list the all and say we're just going to concentrate on these for the first month or so?

  3. Anonymous

    I would mention all the issues and provide a list of changes and metrics by which to measure success. Include regular reviews and check ins. Include the option for you to extend the PIP if additional improve is required.

  4. Anonymous

    OK glad to see this - that you already have some consensus and 'backup' from others and are not going it alone.

    ... because until I saw this, my first thought was that this person may have a well-placed PROTECTOR that no one has told you about. (More than once I've learned, long after the fact, about such secret hidden sources of power, which both sides hide for their own different reasons, and which alone explained persisting situations like yours.)

    I could still be right about that. You're relatively new, so it's possible that these 'backups' are just going along with it for now, but will chicken out further down the line and leave you hanging on your own and then you're up the creek.

    So if you haven't already, I suggest DOCUMENTING - in writing - the upper management support you mention. Even if only a contemporaneous or near-contemporaneous 'note-to-self' recording verbal conversations.

    She's been there longer than you and has proven she's a survivor, so do everything you can think of to protect yourself as a priority.

  5. Anonymous

    My god, why on earth do you continue to go to the mat for this woman? Did you fail her? No…you failed the rest of the team, her colleagues, direct reports and customers.

    There will be no change in behavior until you attach consequences to these abhorrent displays. She’s a petulant child that has commandeered the entire office.

    Put her on a PIP and get rid of her. You’re prob in an at will employment state, to boot! If you’re only hope for improvement is a wing and a prayer, you’re part of the problem, too.

    I left my last job because of a toxic employee. You clearly have both a morale and a retention issue. Clean up this mess.

  6. Anonymous

    Put on my big girl panties. Gotcha. *?

  7. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    Stop being an enabler. You're a manager, manage already.

    Unless you want to be in a cycle of endlessly replacing the people that work for her that will quit, you need to grow the spine your predecessor seemed uninterested in utilizing.

    This is not a you problem, it's a her problem. But now she's made herself a you problem.

    The first two words of your post say it all "I TOLERATED".

    Why are you tolerating one person disrupting the entire office. If you need to, consult and employment attorney - but get this cancer on a PIP asap and fire them as fast as you can.

  8. Anonymous

    I assume you are a senior manager, and she is middle management. I agree with everything Joan said, but I will add an example of what I did with one of my employees. His actions were the opposite of hers. He was pompous and always putting everyone else down. He was tight with the previous manager (who managed with a whip and a chair, which was exactly opposite of my style.) He was the first person I fired, and I never regretted anything except waiting too long to do it (after he compromised a client). One thing I found happening was that since everyone did not have to tiptoe around this person's ravings, productivity and creativity doubled, despite the loss of this person's expertise. If you are in an at-will state and have given her multiple corrective actions, which she has failed, I would skip the PIP, unless your company is concerned about legal action, and show her the door. I would discuss it with your peers and HR first, but that is my take. The drama you expect from the PIP may not be worth it. You can ease the fall with a severance package.

  9. Anonymous

    Yep sometimes you gotta clean house to get the bad out. Then the good shows up like productivity increases. Managers have that duty to manage, help grow their team and unfortunately sometimes they need to terminate. That’s the icky part but sometimes necessary.

  10. Anonymous

    You all (you, your predecessor, the company, etc.) have failed. You absolutely need to explore a PIP, partner with HR in doing this, work on gathering up any and all documentation you have on this employee, others have on this employee, your predecessor had on this employee. This person needs to go. The fact that people on all levels feel the need to tread lightly so as not to set her off? That's an issue. "No one likes change?" Change is a part of life. If she can't handle change, that's her problem to sort out. Get her on a PIP (and make sure it has specific timelines) and manage her out the door. Or seek legal advice (work with HR on this - do they have internal/external employment law attorneys that they work with) and see if you have what's needed to cut out the PIP and just release her.

  11. Anonymous

    Sounds like she has a difficult personality and may not be the best fit for that role. I despise putting people on PIPs but I would highly consider in your scenario given how long her behavior has continued. She’s bleeding the company of trained staff consistently (not the usual one off or occasional bad hire) and the statements you made about her delegating work make me think she’s not managing effectively (which leads me to also question who is leading the team? Is there someone else under her who is already viewed as somewhat a leader that can readily step up? Someone everyone goes to with questions, who handles the bulk of delegates work, etc.)

    if you really want to keep her, I would do an informal PIP. Meet 1:1 weekly, meet with her team regularly, send her for retraining or an outside management training. Always follow up to your meetings and conversations via email (everything in writing in case it escalates to a PIP or termination) and make sure your expectations are clear and realistic. Any goals need to be able to be tracked or analyzed. (If you’re looking at team morale, do an anonymous survey at the start and regularly thereafter.) Keep in mind your own workload and if you’re able to actually balance the additional babysitting this all would entail. Don’t burn yourself out trying to salvage her job for her

  12. Anonymous

    My first question is whether or not you have the authority to put her on a PIP or even formally address the behavior. Or do you plan to proceed?

  13. Anonymous

    ....Honestly, it's insubordination all around. You should probably terminate. Especially since you're losing team members. One bad apple spoils the bunch, and the habits she displays are contagious. Bad behaviors are bad behaviors and you you have to do what's right for the whole team

  14. Anonymous

    First, ask yourself is saving one good for all the other employees. The answer is no. Put her on a PIP, then if they can’t meet expectations terminate her. Remove all emotions this is business but not getting along with others is a problem. Terminate and move on.

  15. Sussana Young

    Hello - I think she's depressed or having issues at home (crying, blowing up is what makes me say so). Hurting people usually hurt people. Attempt pleading to her humanity. I believe you're a great manager.

    You got this!

  16. Anonymous

    Anything is possible, but since this bad behavior is not new, deeper and less temporary emotional / psych problems sound more likely

  17. Anonymous

    you need to start documentation and preparing to get rid of her immediately. your own predecessor quit because of their subordinate. she is abusive and probably a covert narcissist. these people are hopeless to deal with.

  18. Anonymous

    She sounds like a difficult person being a terrible employee however, ask yourself does she have any good qualities, her strengths, etc.? Do you know how long she’s been there, was it always like this or did something happen in her life or with the job? It may be a lot to consider but what’s the purpose of a PIP without addressing the root cause? If followed, it will just be a temporary solution as a PIP basically threatens your employment if you don’t improve and for some situations that’s not enough. I do not believe in removing emotions in business but learning how to navigate them in making best business decisions. A good manager is one that doesn’t just think about the bottom line.

  19. GirlBossanova934974

    I have read all sorts of recommendations having to do with PIPS and that sort of thing on this thread. Why try to hide behind another piece of paper? Why on earth haven't you brought this subordinate manager into your office and told her the facts? She's gone and lost half her department! There have been complaints from outsiders. This just will not work for you anymore. I don't want to see any more public hysteria and angry outbursts. It is unprofessional and wrecks the organization. IF THIS DOES NOT CHANGE ASAP, we will be looking at putting in a PIP. In the meanwhile, here is a written reprimand which I need you to sign. Your first assignment is to report to HR and help find replacements for the staff you have just lost. Have a list of resumes on my desk in 10-15 business days. We will review them.

  20. Anonymous

    Agree wholeheartedly with this response. And bring an HR employee relations person with you to meet with her for support and validity of the severity of this situation.

    Problem employee needs to GO!!!

  21. GirlBossanova934974

    Agree with 110% of bringing HR into the face to face meeting. What I am not finding here is any sort of DIRECT conversation. Oh let's go find another piece of paper. Let's pass the buck to HR. HOW about talk with problem employee face to face and let her know she is in big trouble. Start with the loss of HALF her staff! The antics stop today. Finding new employees is very expensive and you don't know for sure what you're going to end up with.

  22. Anonymous

    Some corporate settings require you start with a PIP. Who's to say they haven't had any manner of conversation? It's a suggestion that's being brought up because OP mentioned a PIP.

  23. Anonymous

    You have not failed her though clearly others have. Send her to anger management and let her know a PIP is next. Let her know that her reviews will be weekly and that you will no longer tolerate abusive and outrageous behavior that is not aligned with how others expect to be treated. Take control, if you don't she clearly will and has already. Break the chain of pain and see if you can save this other employee who is leaving by temporarily having her report to you till you solve this other problem. You got this!

  24. Lilye Stallworth Chaffin

    Bring in an unbiased source to meet with the two of you. Let them see her behavior in the office before the meeting. Someone has to save the company and protect the employees. Place them on a PIP and stick to it! Any infractions is addressed, noted and dealt with. No kid-glove treatment. They will either change or quit. Consult HR and let them know what your plan is, you will need their backup.

  25. Anonymous

    I like the idea of a 360 review where you're asking her peers to review her. Sounds like it will be atrocious, as you would expect.

  26. Anonymous

    I already responded about how she needs to go asap, but wanted to add that you have in no way failed her based on what you have described here. Employees like this can really manipulate, gaslight, and guilt you into thinking that you need to give them a million chances.

    When managers encounter employees like this, they need to take action immediately, otherwise the problem will continue and likely only get worse. This isn't good for you, your company, the other employees or your customers. You might want to look up covert narcissism in the work place and see if that might apply to her (I had an employee who was a text book case and really had me fooled for a long time and the situation really blew up because things were not handled immediately and I have really learned from this).

    It is an employers job market right now, so this is the time to find a replacement. Even though these situations are challenging to deal with, it will teach you a lot of things about management that will remain useful to you for the rest of your career and you will get all the time you have to spend ending this situation back.

  27. Anonymous

    This is a great point. Good timing for you as an employer. You'll never have more choice of replacements.

  28. Anonymous

    If you have the kind of corporate structure where you can't fire someone until they've been on a PIP, it sounds like that's for sure the next step! Either it gets better or it doesn't. It doesn't really matter whose fault it is, but it doesn't sound like you've done anything wrong.

  29. Anonymous

    I don't understand corporate structure. I am not the best person to ask.

  30. Anonymous

    It also doesn't sound like it could very well get much WORSE. And even if it does, then great - it'll support moving her to "the next step" beyond the PIP. Win-win.

  31. Anonymous

    Suggest a PIP. Sounds like the impact on others is greater than the benefit to the company and public.

  32. Anonymous

    18 years is a long time in one company. It might have contributed however not likely the cause of the previous person's departure.

  33. Anonymous

    It is most likely not you who was the cause of the stress. It is most likely the situation.

  34. Anonymous

    Have a culture or policy of no blame. Do a team exercise with some ground rules.

  35. Anonymous

    Guide to self regulation content. Schemas can help.

  36. Anonymous

    I don't think letting your employees deal with it is helpful in the longer run. It is a recurring theme..

  37. Anonymous

    How long is her contract?

  38. Anonymous

    Explain the turn over rate and impact on the company performance.

  39. Anonymous

    From coaching skills, I learned that you are meant to two positive comments, sandwiched in between a point of improvement, and what you would like to see change in terms of behavioural change.

  40. Anonymous

    And for people who want to leave under her have discussion on reasons.

    Either employees or overwhelmed with tasks beyond their skills or they are not being offered enough challenges for them to stay.

  41. Anonymous

    Ask her to do an inventory on reasons for departure and retention of staff. Don't do her work for her.

  42. Anonymous

    I have not won prize yet.

  43. Anonymous

    i like this idea.

  44. Anonymous

    Sometimes you have to have hard conversations and make difficult decisions for the good of the team. It sounds like you are losing people you consider valuable, which costs you and the company in the end. I would collect the feedback, tell her you’d like to see a change and make this work but without significant improvements this may not be the right fit anymore. It is never easy but as a leader is sometimes necessary. Breen Brown has some good insight into this that may be helpful.

  45. Anonymous

    I’ve worked at companies who bring in a new boss and they’re there 2 weeks and already changing things to suit their preferred way of working. I’ve also worked at companies where the new boss comes in, gets to know the lay of the land, asks questions and invites the staff to one on one get to know each other sessions. The first type wants everything their way, the second type evaluates the current way and gradually makes well explained changes to improve processes and procedures. I have always much preferred the second style.

  46. Anonymous

    Sounds like you work with a bunch of cowards. I’d be curious what would happen if you implemented a formal PIP on this employee. I wonder if HR would stop you. 18 years of this toxic behavior is ridiculous and this employee may be protected. I work with someone like that and yes she is very good at her job but an absolute lunatic. Our boss has attempted to curtail her and she refuses to speak with him, goes above his head if you can believe it, and we are now working in this weird uncomfortable environment. For a while she was coming to me to communicate with our boss and then she insulted me and I now refuse to speak with her until she apologizes. So that’s been fun. HR is zero help as they actually encouraged her outrageous behavior and things got ugly so HR is now gone , not sure if it’s permanent or what the deal is. My point is these behaviors have never been properly addressed and they continue. My boss tried to address properly and a real mess has been uncovered.

  47. Sharna Beckles

    Sounds as if you are dealing with a long suffering employee. The behaviours described, sounds someone struggling with their emotions,

    Assess her in detail with the view of support and understanding, it will a bonus for both of you.

    what you shown is she has resilience even without the appropriate support, tap into her skills and invest the time and resources

  48. Anonymous

    PIP NOW. She has poor customer service as demonstrated by customers expressing her behavior. She is toxic to your team.

    I have had 4 difficult employees in 4 different Companies in my 30 plus year career. The first, I ended up putting on a PI P and she quit. The second had FMLA so it was more difficult and longer to document. HR worked with me on this. She would call off on days projects were due. Not saying her FMLA wasn't warranted. We kept it up and HR and Legal validated my wording in the PIP and subsequent write ups. I always had a HR or Legal rep in my PIP meetings with her. She did quit. The 3rd took the info and worked on improving and turned into a much better employee. My 4th , Lets just say, I was glad an external job offer came through. I put her on a PIP and she started crying - She couldn't get to work on time, called off excessively for no reason, and asked to leave early on so many days. Work was not getting done. HR wasn't really supportive in the PIP process - no guidance. 10 weeks in( almost at the end of her PIP), my new Manager started and he wanted to sit in on her weekly PIP meeting. I warned him that she will cry and try to use the tears game to get him to feel sorry for her. Sure enough she did, I pulled out the box of tissues and put them on the table and told her the tears weren't going to work. I had counseled her before I put her on the PIP she was jeopordizing her merit raise and bonus ( that year we had a great year and her bonus would have escalated to 20% of her pay. She still didn't get the message. After this meeting my boss was like maybe we shouldn't be so harsh on her and should give her 60 days stall on bonus payout to allow her to prove she could earn her bonus. I was so glad I had been looking for a new job on that day and even happier to receive a job offer the next day so I could say goodbye to her and to him.

  49. Anonymous

    To answer your questions:

    Have you failed as a manager? No, you inherited a crap storm and are trying your best to calm it.

    Did your predecessor let things go to far and get out of control? Most definitely.

Browse recent posts

jljl3ph
Plan construction projects with the Concrete Calculator, a practical online tool for estimating material quantities, calculating concrete requirements, managing costs, and simplifying building work.
Hiii everyone!
I'm. Current looking for remote jobs
Your trusted partner for a cleaner, healthier home in Los Angeles, California. At Quick Clean Carpet Care, we've been providing top-notch carpet cleaning, upholstery cleaning, pet accident treatment, hard floor cleaning, rug cleaning, window cleaning, and house washing services for over 9 years. Our team of experts uses eco-friendly solutions and state-of-the-art equipment to leave your home sparkling clean and germ-free. From stain removal to deep cleaning, we've got you covered. Serving Los Angeles and surrounding areas, we're committed to delivering exceptional customer service and unparalleled results. Call us today to schedule your appointment and experience the Quick Clean difference!
Your trusted partner for a cleaner, healthier home in Los Angeles, California. At Quick Clean Carpet Care, we've been providing top-notch carpet cleaning, upholstery cleaning, pet accident treatment, hard floor cleaning, rug cleaning, window cleaning, and house washing services for over 9 years. Our team of experts uses eco-friendly solutions and state-of-the-art equipment to leave your home sparkling clean and germ-free. From stain removal to deep cleaning, we've got you covered. Serving Los Angeles and surrounding areas, we're committed to delivering exceptional customer service and unparalleled results. Call us today to schedule your appointment and experience the Quick Clean difference!
See more
Fairygodboss VIP
Achieve your career goals.
Be part of the largest online career community for women to find jobs, advice, and support — for free.
Fairygodboss members