Hello all,

Hello all,

I'm in my mid-50s, with a solid writing portfolio, and I recently applied for a staff writer position with my county government.

They've just received a bigger budget to expand, and this would be a very stable job, with a good salary, and benefits.

I sat and went through their laborious application, sent the writing samples requested, and I had an online/Zoom interview with four people, including the person who would be my supervisor.

When I asked what a typical day would look like for me, supervisor-to-be said, "Well, some of it would be helping me make our TV show 'more sexy.' You know, 'sexy it up' "

Hmm...whaaat? Good thing I have a sense of humor because out of astonishment at that comment, I had to start laughing a little.

And this was a woman saying this. Hmm. okay.

It went well, and I was called back for a second in-person interview.

When I was contacted about the second interview, I did ask about what materials I would need to bring, such as more writing samples, and I asked if there would be testing.

Nobody would respond about testing. Hmm.

At this point in my writing career, I do not--as a rule--offer free work as a "test" of my writing abilities. My portfolio stands as a representation of my writing skills, etc.

Because I wanted to know more about this job and the setup there, I went ahead with the second interview.

Nice people. Supervisor introduced me to everyone, etc., and is telling me what each person does. She's leading me back to the room for the second interview when she quickly shows me a conference room, with a little laptop set up and says, "Oh, this is where you'll do your testing..."

What? Before I could even say anything, she ushers me into the room they use as the broadcast studio, and harsh key lights are on as if I am about to be interviewed on camera.

This time for the interview there were four long tables, with me sitting up front and center at one table, while two people are on either side of me sitting at tables, and two more people sitting across from me at a table.

The lights were blinding. I said, "First of all, I plead innocent of all charges" They all laughed.

It was bizarre.

I said, "Um, I don't want to see this videotaped and used for your Christmas party gag reel."

It wasn't videotaped.

The questions were some of the dumbest questions I've ever been asked in an interview. Well, I'd say most of them. Some were actually quite thoughtful. I had my own questions too and I was taking notes.

It went on for AN HOUR. I was hoping for a coffee mug or something after getting through that. My interview was the last interview that day, so it was 4:45 when we finished.

What set off warning bells, besides not informing me before the second interview about any writing tests?

Supervisor-to-be says the following at the conclusion of this part of the interrogation...I mean interview:

"Well, now we better get you to the writing tests. It's just three writing samples we want you to do. One is a script. I just want you to take the information we give you for the script and you can 'put your stank on it."

Put my stank on it? Huh? I had a feeling I knew what she meant, but never have I heard that phrase used in an interview.

When I sat in the "testing room," I said, "I had no idea testing was involved. I understand the motivation behind doing that, but you have my writing samples, and if you need to see scripts or talking points, I can make those samples available to you."

She was like, "Oh, I'm sorry. It shouldn't take you very long to do these."

???

Now, had I known about writing tests, I would not have accepted a second interview, period. But this was thrown at me at 4:45 pm. They close at 5 pm.

So, fine. I will only write 500 words or less "for free" and after that, you need to compensate me with an agreed-upon nominal fee.

I'm not just out of college, with no portfolio. So, I quickly dashed off the press release "test" but I refused to re-write a script, or to create talking points. What cracked me up was at 5 pm, on the dot, after I finished the press release, one of the other folks who interviewed me stuck her head in and said that Miss Supervisor had "to leave for the day...and I am going home too. When you are finished, just let the director know. His office is next door."

"Sure...no problem."

So, I packed up to leave myself, as I had to be somewhere at 6:30 pm. I wrote notes to the supervisor, letting her know, again, that I did not realize testing was going to take place, and I explained why I only did the press release.

When I got up to leave, the director says, "How did you do on the tests?" I said, "Unfortunately, I didn't realize testing was involved today, so I did not finish the testing. I did finish the press release."

He laughed and said, "Oh, we ask for a blood test, next." hee hee ha ha.

I also followed up with an email later that evening to the supervisor. She wrote back, copying every single person I had interviewed with, and semi-apologized for having to leave, then, still asking me to do the script!!

If I consent to do that work for free, when there are samples in my portfolio of scripts, I feel it will set a precedent for how I'd be treated in that position.

I'm really angry about not being told, even when I asked, about testing and I wonder if I was just being set up to fail. If that's the case, why bother with a second interview?

I realize that Pulitzers aren't weighing down my living room mantel, but I am very experienced at this point, and this was a skeezy move to try to slip the testing in. Trust me, the supervisor would NEVER do free work.

Is this a thing now? Asking writers for free work as "testing" when you've already provided writing samples?

Not sure how to handle this situation.

Thanks for making it this far!

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36 Comments

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  1. Anonymous

    Regardless of testing or not, this sounds like a horrible place to work. That said, if you have a clear idea of your duties and you really want this job, don’t let testing or a free paragraph or two spoil it for you. You can stand that ground in the future. Also they want to know how you’ll write their content (can you do sexy”?) A government job with (presumably) a pension is not something to blow off over a bit of pride. For context, I’m 59, so retirement is front of mind. I also live in an area where good writing jobs are few and far between, so my recent acquisition of a quasi-government writing job is a big deal. So make sure you aren’t shooting yourself in the foot over a small - but possibly, maybe not? inappropriate thing. Your age and location may change all these calculations, but that’s some advice from someone a little long in the tooth.

  2. Anonymous

    You totally get it. Yes, it's good pay, a pension plan, etc. That's the only reason I'm deciding whether to rewrite the script or not. At the same time, my gut says, "supervisor is going to be an issue." That's what my gut says, but then I'm like, "salary...pension...benefits...salary...pension...benefits" I hate feeling this way.

    I do know, because I asked, that there were 150 applicants and they narrowed it down to five. I am one of the "final five." But, with the testing thing, I might not get an offer.

  3. Connie

    I loved reading this post. You ARE a great writer! Good luck!

  4. Anonymous

    I enjoyed reading about your weird experience. Not answering your question about testing requirements in the 2nd interview was definitely a red flag. They knew what time this interview was scheduled for AND all the activities they had planned for you. To not only surprise you with pop-writing tests after your interrogation, but to leave you ALONE to complete them is insane!

    Unless Miss Stupervisor and her sidekick both had emergencies at the exact same time, this wasn't just another red flag, but an air raid siren. Their time is more valuable than yours, obviously. Again, they knew ahead of time how long it would take to complete all of their requirements.

    Good for you that you didn't. If this is how they behave in a candidate's interview process, I shudder to think how cavalier they'd be with a new employee!

    You have a great sense of humor and you're sharp. Besides working with some whack-a-doodles (one who would be your supervisor), I don't think the county government would give you the freedom to write with such honesty and fun expression that you are obviously gifted with. Thanks for the chuckles and best wishes to you!

  5. Anonymous

    Just a thought. You started by stating it's a position for the county government position. My guess is that everyone needs to go through the same process/hoops. That doesn't excuse them not answering your questions about whether there would be a test, nor their disrespectful behavior in leaving at 5pm, but it might explain the process.

    Loved your description. As others have said, you're a great writer!

  6. Anonymous

    I think this is exactly it. Public agencies need to especially be able to demonstrate that they have avoided bias in hiring decisions so they have tedious, drawn out processes that everyone must follow. If you don’t do the script, your are almost certainly not going to get the job because the hiring process involves writing a script and they are not acting fairly if they hire a person who did not meet all the requirements or go through the full process.

  7. Anonymous

    Say bye bye !! My heart was racing with your post. Sounds very stressful, disorganized, and lacks communication.

    you’re a great writer. I love your humor. “Interrogation room.” Lol

  8. Anonymous

    Without over-thinking this whole process, I would chalk it up to the fact that these are, after all, government workers. That means they aren't the best and the brightest in their field or they wouldn't be where they are.

    Another characteristic of government employees (regardless of their position) is the buble they exist in. No one is expecting them to operate with the professionalism and polish of a true media company. They slip and slide and the bar is not exactly set very high.

    So their lack of decorum and communication is completely to be expected. Further their "time clock" mentality and lack of understanding of the interview experience is not at all surprising.

    So while your outrage is understandable, assigning more motivation or thought to their actions is misplaced.

    They are, at the end of the day, low level achievers clocking in and out of a government sandbox precisely for their 8 hours a day until they retire.

    Don't view this as anything more credible.

  9. Anonymous

    As a government employee, I find your post offensive. You really need to get over yourself.

    While this was an awful, inappropriate experience for the OP, this could have happened anywhere. In fact, I had a non government job in which I could see this exact scenario happen.

  10. Anonymous

    Completely agree. The only way someone can make an offensive statement like this is that they clearly have never worked in the government. The fact is, many people from corporate including high tech are turning towards the government because of the higher level of security and more competitive pay these days. Working for the government has nothing to do with lower ambition, capability or skills. Further, interview experiences like this are rampant in tech esp startups. In fact, often worse!

  11. Crodica

    Your contempt for government institutions and public service workers is super offensive and frankly says more about you as a member of society than any government employee.

  12. Anonymous

    This is an obnoxious and offensive generalization. I know many dedicated people in university, military and federal careers that work very hard and make a difference in the world. I am in public media and I can tell you from over two decades in television, it is way more polished and professional than the commercial television industry.

  13. Anonymous

    You are absolutely incorrect in your assertion that government workers are low level achievers who are not the best and the brightest. Actually government often attracts the best and the brightest. Do you really think the folks working in National Security, the CDC are not intelligent? Many of them are graduates of ivy league schools and West Point.

  14. Anonymous

    This experience sounds awful. I am sorry you experienced that. I work in fundraising and communications. It is common these days to be asked to have a writing test on site. I have had to do that several times. My perspective is one 500 word assignment is appropriate, even with samples, to ensure someone is submitting their own work as samples (people do lie). The amount of work you were asked to provide is excessive. When this happens, I often wonder if the potential employer is actually going to use it for something real. That’s free work and completely inappropriate.

    i concur with what others have commented In government hiring processes, every candidate has to be treated in a consistent way, so even if they knew the work you submitted was your own, you would have had to do the writing anyway. There are pros and cons to this, I know, but that’s the system. It’s also possible they were told not to inform the candidates about the test. When I have been asked to do a writing test, I have been informed only once ahead of time.

    I applaud you for knowing your value. The team seems to think they’re comedians or something. That sounds like a horrible work culture to me. It’s probable you are out of the running for the position for not completing the samples. Your post shows you are an excellent writer. It’s their loss.

  15. Anonymous

    In many creative roles the current MO is to put you through some sort of pressure testing. Clearly the culture and vibe and lingo of this place doesn't suit you and unless you can "let go let flow" and see it for what it is, it's probably a bullet dodged. Most junior level staff is doing this kind of stuff these days thinking its "google-esque" and the way to find people who can think on their feet or just come up with new things on the fly. There is really nothing to handle now, you just wait see if the "test" is a pass or fail based on the parts you did and think deeply about if they deserve you. If so it might be good to give them real feedback about your experience. I am in a non creative role, also very experienced and have been asked to do "homework" for interviews and have done it twice- for 2 companies that were of strong interest to me. One was a total waste of time they failed me because I told them things they did not want to hear in my plan, and the other they ended up going back and hiring a consultant that they had used before- and that was after 5 interviews. I think you must as you go forward decide if you want to tell these prospects that your prior work and references speak for themselves and you don't do testing or just let them know your hourly rate for any work you do outside of usual interview queries. Good luck.

  16. Anonymous

    In order to work in these types of government jobs, you have to participate in their hiring process 100% or you won't be eligible.

  17. Theola DeBose

    I want to go back to what you first wrote: “They've just received a bigger budget to expand, and this would be a very stable job, with a good salary, and benefits.”

    As everyone has said, this is a terrible interview experience. I believe this experience is more about managing your disappointment that you still haven’t found the right fit or that you need to keep looking, more than it is about these crazy people. You know their process is cray-cray and you know you don’t want to work there. You don’t need us to reveal that.

    I can empathize with the frustration that a great job on paper can mean something different in reality. That means you have to process and move on from this disappointment and keep looking. I’m sorry that your search is not over because great-looking job has some nightmare people behind it.

  18. Anonymous

    Ms. DeBose,

    I may take a screenshot and keep your comment taped to my desktop computer where I see it every day!!!

    Yes, you hit it. I so wanted the interview to go well and get an offer because what was on paper was fantastic.

    As I am older and trying to find work, these types of jobs don't come along often. Yes, I made it to the second interview, and I so wanted things to work. I was completely gobsmacked during the second interview, period.

    I so appreciate your comments. Thank you.

  19. Anonymous

    I can almost tell you with a guarantee that you would not be a fit for this organization. If you have this many issues pre-hire, it doesn't get better once you get inside. First, there seems to be an extreme culture difference at this organization from what you are accustomed to and comfortable with. One thing I want to address is the use of the terminology around "sexing up" the work. That's a phrase that's been around for years but it doesn't literally mean carnal sex. It's simply means making the work more appealing to audiences. In today's woke culture, it's definitely a poor choice of words but it doesn't necessarily point to anything nefarious. Next, at any point, you have the right to discontinue the process. There seemed to be a lot of things including the testing that I probably would have walked away. Getting a job with great benefits is important, but you need to be able to sustain in the job once you get through the door. And I don't think this one looks like a good match for you. Good luck!

  20. Anonymous

    Upfront, thanks for this response. I've had a couple of weeks to process the second interview and testing fiasco.

    I don't think there was or is an extreme culture difference at this place, per se, it's just that some comments should not be made in an interview, particularly a government job interview.

    I know what was meant by "sexy it up," at the same time, if a man had said that? Or, were the tables turned and I said that to the supervisor while interviewing her? I probably wouldn't have a job anymore. Think about it.

    The "put your stank on it" comment was also not the best to say in an interview, but at least it made me laugh. Still, just not something I've ever experienced in an interview.

    However, I do see your point. Yep, you are correct. Not a good match for me at all, but as another wise poster said, I think I'm grieving over the fact that it wasn't a good match for me because the salary and benefits are fantastic.

    Again, thanks for the great feedback.

  21. Manners Matter

    When someone mentions testing writing, it's time to tell the company you will have to bill for them! They may laugh and think you are kidding - no laughing and smile saying, dead serious!! I agree with other poster saying this position is not a good fit for you and I would not spend any more energy with them. Graciously exit the scene!

  22. Anonymous

    Thank you! Yes on all of it. I was blindsided by the "testing," yet thought about the benefits to the job if I was chosen for it. This was a good lesson for me. From now on, I will ask, upfront, about any testing and I will demand an answer before I move on with the interviewing process.

    I so appreciate your comment.

  23. GirlBossanova934974

    This so called interview is BEYOND RIDICULOUS! I would chalk up to the youth and inexperience of the people involved with it. There is a very old saying out there. "Just because you CAN, does NOT mean you SHOULD!" The very youthful management team at this county government have fallen head over heals in love with TECHNOLOGY! Oh gee! Those face to face interviews are so dull. "Let's sexy it up a bit" and throw in an unannounced video interview complete with fancy lights! OH GEE! OK! And let's blindside candidates with fancy rooms and our fancy HIGH TECH computers and our not so clever tests! The fact that this SO CALLED SUPERVISOR throws in off handed comments to start the test shows his or her lack of maturity. I would simply cross this off as a bad interview experience with a BUNCH of PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE little children who have unfortunately been allowed to play around with fancy TECHNOLOGY and don't know how to use it. I would not be surprised if this gang of childhood misfits get themselves into legal trouble down the road with these tactics. PS: In the adult world, we would take the candidates' writing samples off to the Creative Manager and he/she would be required to give us a report on what they thought. The writing samples and the candidate's other materials would be presented to the interview team where each team member would be asked for their questions etc.. There would be a one on one session with each team member. That sort of thing! Get back to the candidate in 5-10 business days and no more. DONE!

  24. Anonymous

    You've clearly never worked for any government agency.

  25. Anonymous

    After having ample time to analyze that second interview and the "testing" process, I'm really struck with the unprofessional questions and comments that came my way.

    I'm troubled with the "sexy it up" and "put your stank on it" comments from the individual who would be my supervisor.

    Had those comments come from a man? My first reaction would be to stop the interview and call him out for the unprofessional comments.

    But these came from a woman. No matter what was meant by the term "sexy it up" that's not a comment to make in a formal interview, from anyone.

    The "put your stank on it" comment was inappropriate as well, but that one made me chuckle, however, I felt like these comments were made to let me know that this supervisor can say and do whatever she wants and nobody is going to call her on it.

    You are spot on about the youthfulness of the folks interviewing me the second time, however, I did notice that a couple of the folks interviewing me were also shocked at the supervisor's "sexy it up...put your stank on it" comments. I could see it in their faces and reactions.

    Yes, it's been over 10 days now since the second interview and I don't even have a rejection email from them, so that is that.

    Thank you for this reply. I'm just now reading through all of the comments.

  26. Anonymous

    I am a veteran television producer and work for a major university. This is a fairly typical process for government jobs. Committee hiring and some sort of project specific to their department.

    Everything is a trade. Government has more stability and way better benefits, but the hiring process is exhaustive.

  27. Nancy Cincotta

    Two words: County Government

  28. Kathy

    Run!

  29. Christi Lopez

    Ah, the joys of the government hiring process. Honestly, the individuals sound like they don't have hiring experience. If you don't complete the process, then you'll be disqualified. But it sounds like the environment isn't a good fit. I would just respectfully withdraw. No need to jump through hoops if you're not going to be happy there.

  30. Rebecca Milliken

    As merely an observer, here is my opinion. First of all, a good stable job with good benefits is...good, right?

    A family member works for the state government and there are a lot of hoops to jump through to get a job. Every i must be dotted and t must be crossed. They have to cover their behinds and satisfy all concerns because, after all, it's taxpayer money paying the employees.

    My thought about the writing tests, as insulting as it seems to someone with your experience, is that nowadays it's so easy for people to steal content and fake it. Having you do do a "live" test is the best way to judge. I'm not saying it's right or that I agree with it.

    While I'm not a writer myself, I am an artist and my job now (not an artist but in the design field) requires me to show my work when I interview. I've never been asked to sit down and do a CAD design in front of anyone, but I guess I could see the logic if I was.

    And, again, I'm not dismissing your uneasiness about the interview. Just looking at it from an outsider's view.

  31. Ria

    You are an excellent writer. Unfortunately I've experienced similar interview processes where I was asked to test onsite. I took a similar stance to yours in that I had already provided a portfolio of my work (this was for a private sector position). The hiring manager said it had been their experience that many applicants had plagiarized the samples they provided or had gotten a friend to do the work but were unable to perform at the level their portfolio indicated. This is why they insist on onsite testing.

    If you think you can tolerate working with supervisor to be then proceed with providing the requested script.

  32. Anonymous

    Hello, OP here! Wow, I want to thank all of you for taking the time to read my tome! The responses have been excellent and thought-provoking. Some of them made me laugh pretty hard too. Like "RUN"

    So, yes, I re-wrote the script, however, after I did so, I realized from the source material that it was for a different TV show, which wasn't explained to me. I thought Ms. Supervisor was asking me to take the limited source material and turn it into a script for HER show, which is a different show.

    See? I'm already confused again. So, she received a whole new script! Trust me, I sure didn't want to do it, but I did realize, or at least I hoped, that every applicant was asked to do the testing. And, yes, as many mentioned, interviewing for government jobs--whether federal, state, or county--is totally different.

    It's just not responding when I asked about testing, then giving me 15 minutes to write THREE different samples seemed a bit much to me.

    To those who replied that they asked for on-the-spot writing because some writers steal someone else's writing: Yeah, maybe that does happen, but I have bylined articles, and the references to back those up as well. Why would I lie? I guess some folks do that.

    To those who commented on "government work:" My father was a Federal Government worker in D.C., for most of his career. I am and was immensely proud of his work and what he did. He wasn't lazy. He wasn't dumb, etc., nor are all the civil servants who presently work

    Also, again, I'm in my mid-50s, and I have to think about retirement money, and a steady, good-paying position, as I'm not at the top of everybody's list to hire any more. That's just the truth. Ageism is real. I've already experienced it. I'm scared, actually.

    Thus, why I had to really stop and think about this position, and whether I should just walk away or consent to the free work. If I were in a better position, financially, it would have been a lot easier to just say, "Oh hell no" to the testing.

    It's difficult when you are the oldest person in the room now, while you get questions lobbed at you from folks sometimes half your age.

    Questions like: What's your favorite book? Who's your favorite author? And when you reply, "I like biographies, autobiographies, and historical non-fiction. I really love the late great Molly Ivins, the still-living Linda Ellerbee, Doris Kearns Goodwin" And they just look at you like stricken fawns caught in a car's headlight.

    My gut feeling--which is usually right, unless I had a Taco Bell breakfast burrito that morning-- is that I would have a difficult time with Ms. Supervisor. Why? Many reasons, but one big one:

    When I discussed how story ideas come to me, I talked about how a reporter job I held for six years, where my 'beat' included searching new court complaints in a particular county. I visited the court clerk's office in the Superior and State courts every day.

    You get to know the court personnel very well, the Sheriff's deputies and bailiffs that handle security and scan your bags every day. You just do.

    So, I got to know a bailiff really well. He was a fantastic guy, and we would share stories, etc. As I got to know him, it turned out that he worked as an Army photographer during the Kennedy administration.

    I was all over that. Fascinating. He also went to Vietnam when the advisors were visiting and taking photos of everything there, pre-Vietnam war. I begged him to let me write a feature story on him.

    He was so not interested. He felt it would interfere with his job, and I respected that. He did, however, for my birthday one year, take one of the negatives of a press conference he covered and turn it into a poster for me. I have it framed and sitting in my home office.

    The photo? Jackie Kennedy standing behind a podium, but the best part? Behind Mrs. Kennedy stands UPI Reporter Helen Thomas, cutting her eyes at Mrs. Kennedy, while writing notes.

    After I relayed this story, Ms. Supervisor says, "Is he still working there? Could you tell me his name?" BWAHAHAHHAHAH omg...NO!

    I demurred and said, "I'm pretty sure he is retired now." To be honest, I do not think I'm going to get an offer. If I do get an offer, I will have to think about it long and hard.

    I don't want to take a job that would not be a good fit, out of fear. That's what I would be doing.

    To the veteran TV Producer who replied to me: One reason I was all about a second interview was after I saw the amazing video cameras this county government office uses!!! Canon XF705!!

    I will keep everyone posted on what happens. Again, thank you for the great support and responses.

  33. Anonymous

    Although you have the bylines to back up your writing, doesn't mean one can't lift content. Not saying you would lie but look at it from a hiring perspective, they don't know you, don't know your character so testing you onsite is their way of confirming that YOU are the one who wrote the material. As for your dad working in government, you really can't compare what hiring practices were like when your dad applied to now. Glad you took the test, hopefully you get the job. Good luck to you!

  34. Anonymous

    Well, now, it's insulting to think that someone with my writing experience would steal someone else's content, but I guess it happens. I have a Muck Rack page--this website is for journalists to upload their work as a portfolio--that has to be verified before it's uploaded.

    No, testing is a way of getting free work from a writer. I don't know what you do for a living, but it would be like asking a person interviewing for an accounting job, "Here, we want you to reconcile our books for the last two months, you know, as a test."

    It's one thing to ask for one writing sample, under 500 words maybe, but THREE writing samples, and one is a video script? Uh, no.

    Also, not informing an applicant that testing would take place is not only shady, but very demeaning and rude.

    Again, if I were right out of college with only college newspaper clips, I could see why testing would be needed, but after I have supplied ample portfolio material? No.

    My comment about my father and government work was about the disrespect one poster gave to civil servants/government workers. My father didn't just push papers around in his job with the Federal government. He did a lot in his career. My comment wasn't about hiring practices when my dad applied to work for the government.

    Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. Thanks for your good wishes, though. It's been over two weeks and I haven't heard one word from them. At this point, it's safe to say I am moving on.

  35. Anonymous

    An article by a recruiter on LinkedIn got some traction regarding testing and projects being done during interviews. It seems that many would say ok, "Sure, I can give you 20 minutes of my home time tonight." However, if it is longer than that, it's a case of "I'd be happy to bill you for anything more than 20 minutes. Who and where should I mail my bill and NDA to? Upon approval and payment, I'll start the project."

  36. Anonymous

    I'd finish the whole process and see where it goes because they sound like nice funny people. However, next interview (should this one not work out) ask for the process in advance and be prepared to write..on the spot? :)

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