At what point is communication that may be described as Direct considered disrespectful?

32 Comments

1. SophJuly 31,2024 at 7:52PM UTC

   You definitely shouldn't take this personal, especially if these are the same people who you found to be negative and complaining before you became their boss.

   I would say perhaps you should explicitly communicate your expectations around how they offer up feedback, not just complaining but offering solutions.

   That might sound very basic, like something everyone knows to do, but it isn't. People who are constantly complaining and negative tend to hand around and have grown up around similar people. What they are doing likely seems completely normal and natural to them.

   I've been that person and was surprised when someone complained that I wasn't offering solutions. To me, "we shouldn't do that" *was* the solution.

   Providing context on the underlying goal behind an initiative can help them to suggest alternative courses of action where appropriate that still satisfy the underlying needs of the organization while the specific course of action is something the team can get behind.

   Ex:

   Boss lady: "With an eye towards {underlying goal} we'll be doing {initiative}"

   Team member: "We shouldn't do that."

   Boss lady: "Until and unless I hear a better solution that still fulfills {underlying goal}, this will be our course of action."

   Boom!

2. AnonymousJuly 31,2024 at 7:58PM UTC

   Thanks, and I have told them my expectations. The feedback I then get is - I come to you because I need help with the situation or I don't feel like my ideas are heard.

   I do give help to the situation but I am not going to always be the one to 100% implement something. They want things to change but don't want to do the work to make it happen. It's frustrating. I try to make them feel heard and not shut down their ideas, but their ideas don't align us with where we need to be with the company goals (and I know company goals are usually overly ambitious). Typically their ideas are basically wanting to go back to how things used to be (where we weren't keeping up with demand)

3. AnonymousAugust 2,2024 at 2:28PM UTC

   Have your 1:1 meetings with your team. Reiterate to them that the goals set are from the current way the company does business, and the systems and processes have changed for that model. Let them know you understand these changes may feel awkward or uncomfortable or even wrong to them as they are implemented. Let them know you want them to feel comfortable and safe doing the work, and that you know transitioning to new and challenging environments creates hiccups in productivity or outcomes. Ideally if they make an effort to utilize the new systems and processes, things will start to improve more rapidly, and it’ll become less cantankerous or obscure as they further implement the company’s new/newer demands. Let them know you want to help them move forward with the company’s goals and would appreciate their input along the way. And since this is the priority set by the company, the ask is to run all the new processes and systems and find where streamlining has improved or where it was adversely impacted so that the team can focus on achieving their objectives. You will need to eliminate making anyone “the bag guy” by preventing any finger pointing. This is simply long term employees who don’t do change well and obviously wish things to go backward as they are used to. That’s why you acknowledge change can be uncomfortable but want to help them move forward with the company’s goals and objectives to meet demand. Work complaints will happen and they aren’t particularly disrespectful rather than disruptive. So this is where you take your leadership skills and redirect the disruption to finding a way to align yourself with them in one small way so you can garner their confidence. Once you can show them objectives won’t change, but that they still have input in how to improve some of the systems or processes that truly don’t work (they must put effort into the projects as expected before they can find solutions to real issues that adversely alter productivity and performance). The only way to find a solution is when they make an effort. There may be a need to look at some archived processes and make comparisons to the newer methods. Have each of the more vocal complainers do this to find which systems are more effective and efficient, timely and cost effective (if applicable). If the older ways take more time and are less streamlined, you explain this and tell them you need more support from them to work towards the same goals, and you’ll have their backs as well.

4. AnonymousJuly 31,2024 at 8:01PM UTC

   Unproductive complaining is not disrespectful in and of itself. If they make personal comments that are disrespectful then that's another issue.

   You are their manager so if you want solutions ask each person for those.

   You should also be vigilant in making positive change and address the complaints one by one in staff meetings and solicit feedback. You can't expect your team to be proactive if you, as their manager, do not tirelessly try to improve things.

5. AnonymousJuly 31,2024 at 8:43PM UTC

   Learn emotional intelligence. Apply it to your role in management. There are several books, audiobooks or online courses available. I'm from a part of USA where complaints are normal, but doesn't affect work output. It's normal to feel emotions when the job is difficult, then vent and not let it affect work. That's normal for some workers from Northeast USA. As manager, pretend it's not about you being a woman or younger, just lead. Remember that you are their leader. Most important factor. Guide them towards better behavior. Coach your team members towards better behavior no matter WHAT the manager before you was like. Be an example of what they need to do. Prompt the change.

6. AnonymousJuly 31,2024 at 10:24PM UTC

   I faced this scenario after being hired to direct a team that were known for this type of behavior. Although it's difficult, don't take these interactions personally and also don't fuel the fire. I found that when mixing the team together it led to more unrest. This was the first time managing a large group where I focused on one-on-one meetings instead of team.

   While I wanted to change things at the company, they didn't want to discuss solutions. I'm no longer at the company as it proved to be the wrong fit. In my opinion, decide what you want and can you receive higher-level support to curtail these attitudes. If not, determine if it's a situation you want to remain in and if not, brush up your resume and find a role where your expertise is rewarded. Good luck and I'm sorry you're in such a difficult situation!

7. AnonymousAugust 1,2024 at 12:31PM UTC

   What you describe actually sounds like a lot of the engineers I work with (as their HRM). And those that have been like that were those that had been there a long time, had seen the company through various changes, etc. Also, they are the ones who basically refuse to look for ways to improve and grow and also when the company goes through restructuring, they are likely the first to go (if not sooner) because they choose not to evolve.

   I don't feel it's necessarily being disrespectful to you...I feel it's more likely that you inherited someone else's problem that they refused to deal with (seen that happen). Since becoming their manager, have you had initial 1:1s with them to layout your expectations, ask what they need (within reason of course) to be successful, what are they struggling with, etc.?

8. Evon Young, MBAAugust 1,2024 at 2:38PM UTC

   This is a challenging situation for any leader, right? How to turn this ship around to a positive and productive team and workspace. As being a successful leader and integrator of people, processes and systems some of my learnings were understanding the overall big picture and paying attention to the small details of the team and organization. Here is my quick recommendation to hopefully assist with eliminating the pessimistic, negative attitudes and to stop it from spreading. 1. If you are not already holding one on one meetings with your direct reports, I highly recommend you do. Discuss your concerns with the issues, check the status of projects, celebrate the wins and recognize accomplishments, etc. 2. Understand the strengths of each of your direct reports and use those strengths to get projects and process improvements on the docket and get them completed. You need to understand what motivates your team and direct reports and work towards those goals to help drive motivation and a more positive team environment 3. Set goals and set expectations and if those expectations are not met, then hard conversations need to be had like a PIP, etc. 4. Give each team member empowerment to own projects, process improvements challenges and help them along the way to complete the project/implement the change. Sometimes hard convos will lead the nay sayers to start looking for other opportunities and leave, which would be in your favor. Lastly, celebrate your team wins, implement competitions that ends with incentives within the team to help drive enthusiasm within in the team (trust me it works) A goal of a great leader is to build a high functioning, respectful, results and goal-oriented team at the end of the day. These are a few of my recommendations as I have built 4 high functioning teams throughout my career. Consider this your challenge and learnings as a new leader. You got this and please keep us posted on your successes and wins with the team as you turn this ship around. E!

9. AnonymousAugust 1,2024 at 3:54PM UTC

   Ask them "how do you suggest we resolve this?" If they can't think of anything on the spot, ask them to think about, come up with a solution and schedule a meeting to talk about it. Ask them to also prepare an agenda and stick with the agenda.

10. AnonymousAugust 1,2024 at 4:09PM UTC

    We have an expectation that you can not voice a complaint unless you have a solution. It stops a lot of complaints and when you get solutions they are often good ones or a jumping off place.

11. GirlBossanova934974August 2,2024 at 12:31PM UTC

    Having worked in Engineering for several decades, I have run into this. 3 things stand out. A) Make it known you are looking for solutions, not endless banter about old problems and old history. Don't really care about what was done in 1998, 1987, or 2020. Don't put up with any whining. Cut off the conversation when the whining starts up. B) CHALLENGE the individuals in question to come up with SOLUTIONS. Failing that, here is the solution. In my view, these characters are playing a little game and trying to see what they can get away with. C) LAST and most important, make sure if your staff comes up with good solutions, those solutions get implemented. That is your Number #1 job. There is no greater confidence buster than a manager who makes commitments that are not kept.

    This is probably how these negative behaviors probably got started in the first place.

12. AnonymousAugust 2,2024 at 12:37PM UTC

    So what I think is going on is that some of these people have been there long enough that they are disgusted that it's taking so long for problems to get solved. What ends up happening is that even if someone presents a solution, it's too little too late because in their minds decisions were made that led to poor conditions in the first place and it was blatantly obvious to them those original decisions should never have been made. Probably from previous management. So realistically those people should leave, and it's not because they are bad people or toxic but because things were allowed to fester so long that, again it's too little too late.

    Make the changes that need to be made but just know you're making them for the new people in the org. It's too late for the old timers. As a manager, I'd encourage them to get a change of scenery without holding any hard feelings.

13. AnonymousAugust 2,2024 at 3:48PM UTC

    I have been there and know how uncomfortable it can be. I also had the dubious position of having people who were once my boss report to me.

    For the one(s) who only complain but present no solutions, ask for one. Ask, "How would you do it? or "What would you suggest?" This approach makes the interaction more collaborative. If they still have no ideas, suggest they try it your way. I had to tell my more disagreeable ones that I didn't want them coming into my office with a complaint unless they had a solution to fix it. If they continue, put them on a PIP for insubordination.

    These interactions are more about their unhappiness in [fill in the blank with what may be personal or business related] than anything else. Asking them for suggestions or if you can do anything to improve the situation (assuming it is in your power to do so) can go a long way to turning them around. Otherwise, they need to find new jobs.

14. AnonymousAugust 5,2024 at 12:55PM UTC

    Bad managers use pips to get rid of people they don't like. Good mangers set up boundaries, enforce them, and find ways people can feel heard and then adjust accordingly.

15. AnonymousAugust 5,2024 at 6:20PM UTC

    PIPs, when used properly do what the acronym suggests: improves performance. I have had employees that took the wakeup call and turned things around. I've also had to terminate before the deadline because the person could not comply (usually an issue with being able to show up for work.

16. AnonymousAugust 3,2024 at 3:55PM UTC

    Rise above it, when you inherit those who may quite frankly be professionally jealous of you having gotten the job over them, and don't know how personally to get over that they will act like babies. In your 1-1's with them best is to segment into lists of what is working what is not working and any feedback on the things they want to see change or optimized in the department. Let them know it takes a village and the team as a whole and them as IC's will be most successful by instead of complaining only offering solutions. Let them know if they feel uncomfortable saying things directly that you can make a suggestion box for these types of things that will be shared in a weekly meeting where the whole team comes up with a solution. Take away the need to whine directly from them and this should go away. Keep in mind while it is hard to not take things as a personal affront to your leadership skills, managing people is always going to be tough and will present challenges with some regularity. Take it as a growth path for you!

17. AnonymousAugust 4,2024 at 2:46PM UTC

    Multiple things going on here.

    ”Direct” communication from a female to a male *always* runs a risk of someone not liking it. You’re the manager now, some risks come with the job.

    Use direct communication in general. It may ruffle some feathers but most will respect you for it.

    And then there’s the real issue of the complaining and bad vibes.

    First, recognize that some folks complain as a form of commiseration, it’s best to not take it super personally and it will never totally disappear.

    Second, identify some things that *can be* improved and improve them. Assume the leaders before you had good intent but maybe conditions are different now.

    Third, keep soliciting ideas for process-improvements and keep meeting complaints with redirects to “how would you fix it”? And if there are a few things that just must be tolerated, explain the backstory.

18. AnonymousAugust 4,2024 at 3:15PM UTC

    I’m also a female engineer with 16 yrs of experience, for background.

    Looks like the employee morale as group is low. As long as the communication is assertive and not aggressive or passive/aggressive, then is ok. You won’t want to discourage assertive communication, because that is something we have work tirelessly to achieve at work, specially as a female in a male dominated industry. Employees should be able to communicate the issues, and as engineers we are literally trained to find and solve problems. Is important to listen with curiosity, instead of feeling attacked by it.

    Maybe find something different to reach them. Show them you are curious about their concerns. Ask questions without being annoyed or invalidating their concerns. When a manager starts justifying something an employee points out as a problem, that might close them and give them the idea there is no solution, can encourage the pessimistic view, even if that is not what you want. Maybe make a team meeting where they all can express themselves without interruptions, just like having a brainstorming meeting for a project, but about the group dynamics. Clarify the concerns that are not in your hands to improve and if is possible take those to your superiors, and for those that are in your hands, see them with curiosity and not as a personal attack. Doesn’t mean you will lose your authority, but your leading position will probably feel better when the team feels better too.

19. AnonymousAugust 5,2024 at 12:51PM UTC

    There's toxic negativity and then there's toxic positivity. Neither is great. 1st thing first, are you leading to a situation where you never want to hear anything negative because you don't want to deal with it?

    Get ahead of this by having a group session. Yes a group session. Start light "I understand that things may have been done that weren't optimal before I was here. I'm dedicated to making change and your jobs good jobs to be in. I'd like to open up the forum and discuss ways to change those things. But we need to pick our battles in life. So now we are going to do retros (you are holding weekly retros aren't you? If you are a new manager of an engineering team you should be holding standups, grooming AND Retros) where people can anonymously list things that went well, call out other people who've done well on the team and talk about what didn't go well, then vote on what they are going to focus on fixing and come up with plans for fixing things.

    Contrary to popular beliefs, they did a psychological study and 1. Venting as long as the venter moves on is healthy and does not lead to more negativity as long as the person being vented to ALSO moves on. Dwelling isn't healthy and there is a difference.

    What you don't want is an environment where your employees feel like any form of advising you of something that goes wrong is penalized by firing. That's how you miss critical issues because you don't want to listen to people and then fail as a manager.

    What you do want is a collaborative atmosphere where people work together to make the environment better. And the people who refuse to work with other people to make things better - those are the ones you encourage to find a different space, but you are new and you need to give people the benefit of the doubt.

    That being said many many men view women as emotional caregivers and that may be why they are aiming this in your direction. That combined with a gendered inability to accept solutions from women may be making things tough for you. It's not your job to be a therapist. You can set boundaries -" it would help me if you let me know what kind of thing you are seeking before kvetching. Do you need just a person to vent to? Or are you seeking a solution? If you are not seeking a solution, I'm happy to listen, but I expect that you will use this time to figure out how to move on after this to things we can find solutions to." Also when they have a good point "that's a great subject for the retro. In the meantime what can we BOTH do to improve things between now and our next 1:1." If they then say "nothing" respond with "it seems like overall you are very unhappy here. If we can not work to fix the unhappiness or solutions how do you think this may be impacting the team beyond you?" And follow up accordingly. Filling the room with yes men via a pip laiden penalization of people who speak out does not make you a good leader or person, and I'd avoid that unless there was a real issue with someone's work.

20. Orlagh CostelloAugust 5,2024 at 1:23PM UTC

    Engineer, 24yrs experience. This happens and as at least one other commenter said, when you're the female leader of an all male team, it can *always* run the risk of being assertive. The way I manage it is this: allow a general moaning session (we can call it a meeting, but really this is where they get to "raise issues", complain, whatever they like. Take copious notes. Split them into "things you can do something about" and "things you can do nothing about". Start working your way through the shit you can do something about - preferably with an action plan you can share with the team. Any time something gets complained about, be clear on the divide between what you can or cannot control/ influence. My team got very used to me saying " I can't change the past. Unless one of you has come up with time travel, I need to focus on what I can do."

    And some of them will think you the biggest bitch to walk the earth, but frankly, some of them were always going to think that. You need to concentrate on what's possible. And try & preserve your sanity.

21. Yahanna BeyAugust 5,2024 at 1:28PM UTC

    Any problem solving to be effective we start at root cause which date back to one of America's wealthiest man John D. Rockefeller. Read the Quote of John D. Rockefeller, he was a Business man, sharp, shrewd, & very Selfish all of charity giving was motivate by Greed he would enslave the world given the & by the looks of things he has done an outstanding Job. One of his rememberable quotes for me was : In 1903 John D. Rockefeller said he wanted a nation of workers, not a nation of free thinkers. His plan was to take over all the industries that dealt the needs of people like any Food manufacturering, Schools any learning institution, health, pharmaceutical, and kind of Doctor or scientist. A job as a boss is a job as an overseer bottom line modern day slaver, you need to be open minded to see take your feeling & emotion from this equation so you can see. Peace just a messenger

22. Chrissy Regan SmytheAugust 5,2024 at 2:02PM UTC

    I told my staff they could complain but had to have 1 or 2 ideas for fixing the problem. As the manager i was very direct with my expectations. Don’t want to listen? You were written up and eventually let go. I let everyone know we were a team and had goals to hit. My door was always open if you were struggling and we would come up with a plan of action. Yes, people were let go. But as a whole, we learned to respect each other and work together. I also learned that it wasn’t my business what people thought of me. That’s on them not you. Be direct about your expectations and deadlines. Be prepared to take action when deadlines and goals are missed. Also be prepared to recognize people when they do a good job.

23. Vasuki MartyAugust 5,2024 at 2:05PM UTC

    have you considered going to Human Resources or one of the overseeing department managers? There was an extremely sensitive situation for years and during that time, I had a couple of amazing managers and finally. I didn’t know how to speak professionally on fear and some constant intrusion. Communication is good. Speak to HR first. There may be one person (one) in that department who can help you.

24. AnonymousAugust 5,2024 at 2:51PM UTC

    Engineer including eng mgr for 20 years, now executive director. From my experience, engineers love to bitch about stuff. Sometimes it's good because it leads to innovations. Sometimes it's an anchor and sinks the team. I suspect there is a nucleus of the negativity, 1-3 guys which influence the whole team. Figure out who that is if you don't know and attack there. You can *TRY* 1:1 but I find those people simple walk out of your office and add your request for them to change their attitude to the list of things to moan about. Instead start taking everything they complain about, put it in an action item list and then put them in charge. Either they will shut up about stuff because there are consequences or pain points will improve or both. As a younger manager, I assume you have your act together and assume when you have goals/etc they are clearly shared with the team but there is someone(s) undermining the group dynamic. Gotta get to the head of the snake. Good luck. I feel for your being the only woman. I spent about the first half of my career as the only, then recently with my exec promotion am back again to being an only. Hang in there!!!

25. Kusuma ShandilyaAugust 5,2024 at 3:08PM UTC

    I have had similar experience. I did report it to the higher management since I was not the manager in this case. I tried to move to other teams. Also some good mentors recognized my potential and moved me up in ladder, this helped a little bit I think. However, the disrespect from the peers who have been in the area longer continues in some or other ways

26. SPNN4 SAugust 5,2024 at 3:32PM UTC

    Here is an article about what it means to be a "Good Boss"

    Good bosses exhibit these 3 traits - Fast Company

    he qualities employees value in a boss are evolving, but the essentials of effective leadership—clear communication, compassionate human-centered leadership, and realistic expectations—remain constant. Good bosses excel in these areas. They won’t just manage the challenges they face; they’ll inspire and retain their teams, build trust, foster stability, and instill hope. These traits create a workplace where employees feel valued and empowered and set the standard for success.

27. SzaritaAugust 5,2024 at 4:19PM UTC

    One of the best bosses I ever had would, upon me sharing a problem/complaint, ask me if I had a solution. If she approved my solution, she would tell me to follow through with it, if not, I’d do what she suggested.

28. AnonymousAugust 5,2024 at 4:22PM UTC

    When I became the supervisor of my department, I was worried about a few that would be reporting to me. They put me through a "hazing" of sorts. They were testing me to see if they could trust me as I told them they could.

    When I started I told them up front that unless it affected the quality of our products or the safety of our employees, I would never betray their trust. I know a few (because my boss came and asked me about situations) tried to test me but I kept my word. When they come to me with a problem, I either resolve it or I involve them in the process to get it resolved.

    I asked one employee why they never wanted to participate in Employee Surveys or Feedback Sessions. He went to his locker and pulled out about 15 previous 3i (Identify, Iterate, Improve) suggestions he submitted in the past. Not only were these never submitted by previous supervisors, I found the original copy in their file. How frustrating that must have been to try and help the company improve our processes only to never have them turned in. What was worse is they talked to others about it. The others turned in the same suggestion, their supervisor submitted it and they got the credit for it. How could anyone be happy with that.

    If it is something my employees should know, then they know. If they need assistance and I can't help them, I include them every step of the way until we get the resolution we are asking for.

    You can't always take things personally. When they don't want to use a particular solution, ask them why. It could be something they have already tried. Communication is key.

    Good luck. It can't be easy.

29. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMEAugust 5,2024 at 7:32PM UTC

    Your team sounds a lot like the men I worked with at an Advertising company. I was the only women in the department and some of my male coworkers pranked my computer every time I left my desk. Many of them were juveniles and treated the office like it was the men's locker room. Not pleasant. I complained to HR.

    However, since you are their manager, you may want to have a group meeting outlining what acceptable behavior is and what your exceptions are. You have to set boundaries

30. AyianAugust 5,2024 at 8:34PM UTC

    If your entire team is exhibiting this behavior, you may consider a team meeting wherein you bring to their attention that you've noticed this trend and would like to change course.

    Going forward, you would like each person who isn't loving something to think about and present to you possible solutions. If they do this and you're able to implement some of those suggestions, it will shift their mentality about things they don't like over time and instead of basically just complaining all the time, they'll be more engaged in actually doing something about it. That's not always practical, but even a few wins can change their outlook.

31. AnonymousAugust 6,2024 at 2:54PM UTC

    I have had that before.. most of the times that that happened to me, I left the place because nobody was under my authority. If you have people under your supervision on the other hand, I think it is easy to solve the problem because you have the command to organize your area of supervision on your way.

    this is what you need to do: .

    Define the rules and regulations of your area of what you have control. Tell them what can or cannot do in the work place. Most adults know how to behave in public. But, when there are more than 2 bad behavior people in a group of people at work, they use their uneducated skills to make uncomfortable somebody else.

    if you are part of the control in your job, you have to discuss that behavior problem with the other supervisors.

    good luck

32. AnonymousAugust 20,2024 at 4:19PM UTC

    I had this happen to me at my last job and it's unfortunately the company's culture. Since you are in management (you have direct reports) there should be a weekly or bi-weekly managers meeting where you could bring up this topic to get some input from your peers. See if any of them experienced it and what they did to change it or if they are interested in collaborating with you to bring about some change.

    This often happens to women in lead/management positions in a mostly male environment where the company has no standards supporting us. We have to develop our own and get them incorporated from the top down, otherwise this type of behavior spreads like the flu. It is a workplace culture issue where there is no support for women in leadership positions. See if you can speak to someone in HR on developing "support for women in leadership positions".