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I have been at my current company for almost 9 years. There has been a lot of transitions over the years and roles have changed quite a bit.

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I have been at my current company for almost 9 years. There has been a lot of transitions over the years and roles have changed quite a bit. I am relatively happy with my job and company....until last week. I am not supported by my current manager. She is performing two different positions and is going through a divorce. She is spread thin and sometimes neglects the position she manages me in. I am not a perfect employee, however, her manager caught wind of the lack of support. Her manager decided to dig into the department's work - they're are 8 of us. Her manager found some minor mistakes across the board. Of the 8, I am the only one her manager zeroed in on. I was brought into a meeting with both and given a list of 4 areas where I could improve. 1 of which was discussed in my last review but it was not the end of the world. Long story, short - at the end of the meeting I was placed on a PAP - performance action plan. I was shocked! I was also shocked that the meeting did not accompany HR nor a written document of what the PAP entailed. I was told by HR to take the 4 action items and write my own corrective action plan. In researching if this was a bizarre way to go about this, I found someone say....employers who let you write your own, are basically letting you tie your own noose. Has anyone heard of this? Has anyone successfully gotten off a PAP and continued on? I always thought a PAP was a legal way of paving the road to termination. And, if that is the case....why would I stay?? Thanks!

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  1. Anonymous

    I would think most reading this will think of this as a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan). The Plan's intent is to help the employee address issues in performance that need to be addressed. Additionally, the business and the manager should want the employee to improve vs. terminate. The fact that the manager is not crafting those issues in a legal document is curious. That is the manager's role. If they have a different process, then suggest you clearly articulate where you need to improve. Also, you should schedule regular 1:1 meetings with the manager to chart improvement on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. Good Luck!

  2. Anonymous

    Yes, you can get off a PIP or in your case PAP. Most people view it negatively, but it can be viewed as a way to improve. Do you have a mentor - officially or unofficially who also help you navigate this. Preferably someone in the company is better at this point.

    If they are requiring you to write the Plan, acknowledge the areas they have listed/stated and create a plan to improve. Do not be specific and say I will do this by x date or achieve this certificate. Be more generic.

    Once you have an outline of your plan with some direction on improvement (make sure to include what you need from them to be successful - it is a two way street of you improving and of them supporting) then present to them and have them agree this is what they are looking to achieve.

    Bounce all of this with your mentor as well - they can be immensely helpful.

    Good luck you can overcome a PIP or PAP - it does take hard work and determination

  3. Dr. Patty Gross

    Respectfully, I disagree. If a person defines goals that are not specific and measurable, how can either the OP or the company defend or refute them? Generic goals are like platitudes: Generally, not worth the paper they are written on.

  4. Anonymous

    Since she really doesn't have a clue as to what they want. Be generic and provide it back to them for discussion. At this point it is a negotiation. If you are very specific - you may alert them to something they were not even focused.

    You are correct you do want measurable, but you need them to start to define this so you don't add more fuel to the fire.

  5. Dr. Patty Gross

    Sorry, I didn't read it that way. She said she had four action items, and it should be easy enough to come up with at least one goal for each of the four.

  6. Anonymous

    Well, surviving a PAP doesn't happen very often. I would do my best to look like I am sincerely addressing the 4 areas while simultaneously looking for a new job.

    Interesting that one thing has bounced back on you that was already addressed in a prior review which you label 'not the end of the world'. That opinion is not shared by them, why do you need to hear twice? You don't seem to be an engaged employee, and they sense it. I can't imagine 4 areas of concern! In writing your own corrective action, include establishing weekly 1:1s so you can show your progress, or get advice on how to improve a specific area. Your whole attitude does not come across as being very interested in the role/co, do your self a favor and find something more to your interests and liking.

  7. Anonymous

    I worked at a company for 11 years and was laid off. I knew I was not giving 100% as I was tired of the BS and constant re-orgs taking place. I felt so free when they let me go and found another job that allows me to grow!

  8. Anonymous

    Also known as a PIP, process improvement plan, is a way for HR to document when there are problems. It seems the company is micromanaging you and got caught up in it. Look for a new job and do your best in the current one till you can leave. Meanwhile, ask for all of this in writing.

  9. Dr. Patty Gross

    Did the plan end with termination of employment as one of the outcomes of failure to comply with the plan? Performance improvement plans often use this verbiage to highlight the necessity for compliance with the plan and give them a reason to legally terminate "for cause." If not, then it may be implied, but not as legally binding.

    If you are writing your own goals and improvements for the points, use SMART goals (Google it if you aren't sure what this means) as they will set you up for success, so long as you make everything reasonable, doable, and relevant to the issues.

  10. Anonymous

    I would try hard to accomplish the items in your PAP. it is a desperate job market so please do all you can as soon as you can to save you job. Don't listen to others or read horror stories. Just do the very best you can to prove your worth. Don't downplay the serious nature of your mistakes or minimize the fact that you are the one put on a PAP. Take this serious and hold onto your job.

    You should always be looking for your next job but do so on your terms not be pushed out the door and forced to look for one.

  11. Anonymous

    It sounds like you are downplaying your poor performance and calling no worse than the others but yet you are being singled out. I don't know if it's wise just to bail. You will need to explain yourself in interviews about why you left.

  12. Anonymous

    I would concentrate on myself and not worry about my coworkers. You have been given great advice below and so I will not say the same.

    One thing I will say, your manager may have gone to her boss for help but her personal life is none of the concern. 2 different departments are enough~ especially if they are different. She may have singled you out that she just doesn't have time to work with you (happens) OR they are calling everyone in from your department. Finally you dont see the whole picture so your "minor" mistakes are in the big scheme of things not so minor.

    Find processes that will help you to reduce the errors.

  13. Anonymous

    Use it to your benefit and take it as a gift. For all these people to take their time to our together this review for you is good news. They can just fire you and not waste their time.

    Stay out of your bosses business. Put ttogether a workable serious plan with identifiable milestones. Report in writing on your progress. Set up an appointment to review progress and have definite end to the PIP. Make sure they once you write the plan management and HR approve it. Good luck.

  14. Anonymous

    Preface/ I’ve had a PIP. Anyone telling you it’s possible to “come out of it” has never had one. I haven’t read all the comments yet, but I’ll give it to you straight. No one (that I’ve ever heard of) comes out of a PAP with their job “saved”. So, a few things:

    Someone should be in the room, but it’s not required; as long as HR is there.
    That said, they handle it for a reason. To make sure 1) You understand wha needs to be “worked on”. 2) When it comes time to review your progress (most likely w/ your boss) it’s documented what was expected of you. 3) At the end of the day, your boss is the one who decides whether you’ve addressed the issues. Since the feedback was given to you already during your review, this is the next step toward letting you go.

    Now - if you are honest with yourself, how has your work been? Did you improve upon the critiques from your review? Find every email / communication you can from her recognizing good work, improvement, things like giving you projects - which signify trust in your work despite the feedback she has provided.

    Next up/ Wha type of boss is she? Would she throw you under the bus? If she is struggling with her workload, and the higher ups are noticing, as unfair as it is - employers with no integrity have and will throw an employee under the bus in a heartbeat. Better you than her.

    I don’t want to be a negative Nelly, but I would do everything that’s being asked, while you look for another job.
    Look for meetings you are supposed to attend being canceled or moved, some projects moved off your plate, etc. Most will provide severance, and approve unemployment. I hope I’m wrong, but cover your butt!

  15. Anonymous

    Take the feedback to heart. Ask your manager as well how you can help support her during this time and write up a firm plan with deliverables and timelines to solve the 4 points they are asking for. Also keep one eye on the door and look around to see what other companies are out there. After 9 years there while it is nice to continue on perhaps you have become complacent about things and making a move could be a fresh start for you with a new manager that suits you better. Try all those bits and see how things fall out. It could be the start of the end for you there or you could if you put your goals in place turn that ship around. Good luck.

  16. Anonymous

    You’re on this plan so they can get rid of you. They are starting their paper trail to show that the reason you got fired was due to performance and therefore not have to pay unemployment- document everything- keep your own paper trail at home and look for a new job.

    even if you make it out of this PAP- your days are numbered.

  17. Anonymous

    I know one person who received a PAP and addressed the issues listed, stayed with the employer for more than a year, then gave notice when they received a job offer elsewhere.

  18. Anonymous

    You never did say the "4 areas where I could improve." Can you look at them objectively? Is your employer entirely wrong? I'm asking because you said you were being singled out. I'm not trying to be mean but a lot of time we fail to assess objectively our part. We can't fix what we don't acknowledge. This should give you more clarity to present an impressive corrective plan. Good luck.

  19. Barbara M.

    Being placed on a PAP can shake anyone’s confidence. It’s unsettling and often misunderstood. But it can also serve as a reminder of your own capability and resilience. To me, it's the start of taking your power back. It’s not an ending, but an opportunity to pause, regroup, and start shaping what comes next, fully on your own terms. Wishing you the best.

  20. Anonymous

    I had a similar problem. Could not make them happy with what I was doing. The second year, they called me in to the office, and I gave them my notice. About a year later, I discovered that my replacement did not last long because they were unable to perform the tasks I had done. Find another door!

  21. Romaine Greiner

    I am HR Once I needed to give an employee a PIP, not to punish him, but to help him improve . I set up training for him , meetings with management weekly, We had this in place for three months.

    i was so excited to see he grabbed this opportunity and worked on it.

    He sales was at 25% but after over 100% for the year. He came from our lowest performer to winning the best sales person of the year.

    Take this time and use it to your advantage! Improve and learn as much as you can.

  22. Anonymous

    Thank you all for taking the time to comment.

    For context, my area of needed improvement was my excel skills. I am in my mid 50s. Most of my coworkers are younger and have used it since birth lol. I have been self teaching myself with videos etc. that was my “not the end of the world comment”. I don’t understand how you can go from no further discussions during 1:1 to a PAP/PIP. That’s why I think it’s a witch hunt.

    Aside from that comment in my review, none of the other points have ever been discussed. I was asked to be measured against my other counterparts and was asked why would that matter? I said because I would be curious as to where I fall. If I’m not the worst, why is my performance being singled out?

    I do take my job seriously. I’m not half arse’g my work. I hit all deadlines. I am well liked and respected by other depts.

    I was asked the other day to perform a task and I said I can’t without having you review it first as it’s in the PAP. She waved me off and said don’t worry about it, it will hold things up if I have to review it. Oh, and the PAP still has not been signed.

    And, yes, it does say - if performance continues to decline, I will be terminated.

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