Anyone have or have had a male boss whose spouse does not work, specifically as a SAHM?

25 Comments

1. Elise PilkingtonFebruary 14,2023 at 8:18PM UTC

   I think it really depends on the person. I have had bosses whose wives were SAHM’s and were very supportive. They realized that supporting me helped me be more effective which accrued to their benefit in the end. Maybe your boss just isn’t very smart.

2. Amy Carissa OliverFebruary 14,2023 at 8:36PM UTC

   Are you sure that that is what is happening? Has he said that he is not supportive of your career because you're a mom?

   Sometimes bosses are just legitimately clueless as to how to support their staff at all, of any gender. Sometimes you just have a bad boss who doesn't know how to be a manager at all. Sometimes you have a boss who just can't connect with you as a person or professional and it negatively impacts their professionalism.

   This doesn't make the situation easier. But if he hasn't specifically said that he doesn't like you because you're a working mom, then don't put motives into his behaviors. That will drive you crazy. If he has said that, then a trip to HR may be in order.

3. AnonymousFebruary 14,2023 at 8:55PM UTC

   He's acted like a jerk, took five months to review annual goals, hardly responds to emails. This has been all since I came back from maternity leave. Gave me a role, but it was obvious I was the only qualified candidate. Any time he asks personal questions, it has always been about my baby. He's also made all sorts of assumptions about me, like assuming I can't travel.

   He hasn't done this with any male employees and his other female employees either don't have kids or their kids are much older. I'm his first employee to have ever gone on maternity leave (engineering, so male-dominated).

4. AnonymousFebruary 15,2023 at 8:51AM UTC

   You know for a fact that he has no incentive to support a female employee's career because his wife is a SAHM?

5. AnonymousFebruary 15,2023 at 3:39PM UTC

   I ran into this early in my career (in the 1970s and 1980s). I presume there is still a lot of it lingering out there. The presumption is that women are young and (especially if they are married) will be taking one or more maternity leaves during their tenure, and if they have small children at home, will be overly distracted by child-rearing (doctor's appointments and the only one who can stay with them if they get sick, etc.) When My children were young, I traveled extensively; my husband was a SAHD. My job understood this and adapted. Have you talked to him about this? Has he said anything disparaging to you (like you are neglecting your children or your duties at home)?

6. AnonymousFebruary 15,2023 at 11:44PM UTC

   oh these wonderful people in the comments with 'do you have any real data on this'.. Puh-lease. If it quacks, it's a Duck. This bias is rampant and I've experienced it multiple times with multiple male bosses. I even had one male VP boss say "Hey [name], go find some of your mom friends and ask them if they want to make some part-time money..they probably would be grateful for a little extra cash while raising their kids". O.M.G. These moms, ahem, want transparency in salary (thank you 2023), to be paid the same as male peers, given respect and authority in their roles, and empathy as you stated so that you can be INCLUDED in opportunities to succeed.

   Champion your career and hold strong on your values. Require his support if he wants to retain you.

7. AnonymousFebruary 16,2023 at 3:33PM UTC

   I work in tech and have run into this many times. Frankly, one of only male bosses I ever had who I felt was supportive/empathetic towards me being a mother was a divorced dad who had split custody of his kids.

8. Kisha PattersonFebruary 17,2023 at 1:33PM UTC

   Yes, especially in my (older) male dominated field! With the (unpaid) overtime expected the easiest and clearest way to succeed is to have a wife to care for you care for your home, children, etc. I was in the car with the principal of the firm on a single day trip out of state when he got a call from his wife, she would be glad to pick up his glasses. thats when it hit me. As my glasses where languishing at the store because I hadn’t left the office on any day before 7 in a month.

   from then on when anyone scoffed at me actually using my PTO I just told them it was my lack of a wife to blame.

9. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 2:04PM UTC

   Same! This right here! We’ll said.

10. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 11:15PM UTC

    I love this response!!!!

    a favorite for me was when I had just started in a male dominated field and the senior manager hosted a pot luck at his house. All the men wrote down dishes their wives were bringing. I thought that was alienating. Then I saw what one of the senior women did: she wrote down her husband would be bringing baked cookies. It made me so happy that I wasn’t the only one who realized the bias!

11. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 1:49PM UTC

    Unfortunately I feel like this is standard of men who do not see the balance required in a household for a mom and dad who work. I know most "try" but realistically you cannot and empathize the situation if you have never experienced it. Nothing prepares you for the challenges being a working mom. It is exponentially more difficult than expected.

    It is definitely hard, I have had one manager in over 10 years whose wife was a SAHM who prior zed women's careers even if we had kids. He was of a strong Christian faith and he himself as a director prioritized time with his kids. I was thankful that he was my director from the time I started as a young professional until the time I had kids. He transferred right before I found out we were having baby number 2.

    I saw the writing on the wall on what the management team would look like. I had already begun looking for a new position inside the company. If you can look inside the company there are some things to look for:

    -How do direct reports perceive the director?

    -How many women work in the department and how many have kids?

    -How many men in the department have kids and how much of a priority are their kids to their lives?

    -Do people in the department prioritize their family or their careers?

    -Do not assume because it is a female director that it will be better? You have to read between the lines.

    -Emotional Intelligence courses can be very helpful in learning to read between the lines.

    -Pay attention to how departments promote or encourage growth. If you see a department where it is the same people who are not growing do not assume its the people. In my experience especially if they are not growing up that is a sign of a stagnant department. The managers of that department are probably not going to have the empathy you want.

12. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 2:02PM UTC

    Can you share some semi-specific examples so we can untangle this scenario?

13. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 3:05PM UTC

    Yeah. I'm the only woman on the team with young children. Everyone else is much older than me. In fact, I'm the first female employee he's had who has used maternity leave.

    1) there were multiple issues with my maternity leave that he did not handle well at all, including not telling me about a role until I came back from leave when he knew for several weeks (this was not out of respect for my time, as we had been in contact during leave).

    2) he skipped over me or talked over me in a few meetings.

    3) he waited five months to talk about what he semi-expected from me in my role (I started in in this role after returning from leave). By HR rules, this was supposed to have been done when I returned.

    4) He's lied on occasion about doing things he agreed to do, or conveniently forgot.

    5) He's spoken to me in a condescending tone on occasion, when I had done nothing wrong.

    6) He's on a very familiar basis with certain groups of people in the department (boys club things like golfing, etc) and other dads with SAHM wives receive larger bonuses than they should (I found this out). He's very cliquey.

    7) The only times he's ever asked me anything personal, it was about my baby - is she your first, is she napping, has she gotten sick. All things that would affect productivity.

    8) Made comments about breast milk and how it wasn't necessary to abstain from drinking, when other people around us didn't even know I was breastfeeding. (This was at an after work thing).

    9) Bragged a few times about various things, like automatically knowing more than me because he's been with the company longer (length of time does not equal better communication or managerial skills). Or being about to run ultramarathons or other bullshit. That's not exactly something I'm going to be able to do with an infant and a spouse who also works full time.

    10) On occasion, questioning my ability to get things done correctly or in a timely manner. This really bothered me because I've been promoted three levels in three years. I wouldn't have accomplished this without getting my shit done on time and right.

14. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 7:55PM UTC

    I have a some questions for you after reading these examples.

    1) How long postpartum are you?

    2) While some of this is WOW (especially 6) others are very standard questions/ actions/ discussions I have had with both male and female managers. So which one bothers you the most?

    3) Question 10 comes from growing. I have been promoted up my companies ladder, the second two incredibly quick. However the expectations of getting things done and getting them done quickly has changed significantly from my first level.

    4) Why did number 7 bother you so much? Those are standard questions when you have a baby. Something about that one hit a nerve do you know why?

    5) Did not handle maternity leave well. Besides the Role? what changed from before to during and after maternity leave.

15. AnonymousFebruary 18,2023 at 1:55PM UTC

    Who are you to judge the woman above with the issues with her boss? These are all valid issues and feelings! I ESPECIALLY have a problem with your statement “How long postpartum are you?”

    I don’t know if you are a man or woman but this is a terrible thing to ask this woman!!!

    If you are a woman, shame on you for being judge mental of her feelings.

16. AnonymousFebruary 18,2023 at 3:07PM UTC

    Yeah. Like, heaven forbid a woman wants to be asked about something other than her kids. Must be shocking that she has her own identity beyond being a mother.

    Or about being questioned about the ability to complete tasking. Um, if you don't have the confidence someone can do the work, maybe you shouldn't assign it to them.

    But the postpartum question is total utter bullshit. Oh my God, she must be imagining everything because she's "emotional" and dealing with ppd or something like that.

17. AnonymousFebruary 21,2023 at 3:59PM UTC

    Did you ever think maybe that person was going to provide some insight? I know for me the biggest challenge I had where everything stacked up on me and I was sensitive to everything said to me was my first 9 months postpartum. I ended up using my EAP and found out I had some issues I needed to work through. I was diagnosed with Postpartum Anxiety and PTSD that I needed professional help to navigate so I did not bring that into my workspace.

18. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 4:24PM UTC

    I’m going to continue following this thread. It’s related to what I experienced at work last year.

    i read your list below and that person did all that. Unfortunately after a year of working in that environment it was hitting me emotionally. I documented and reported my experiences to Hr. It went to corporate investigators but nothing happened which left me empty. I sought emotional support through my company EAP and it helped some and I was moved to another area to work which got me away from that toxic person. I need to go but will comment some more later.

    it helped me getting validation for what I was experiencing. That’s why when I read what you wrote I completely understand and believe you. It helped me hear that from supportive friends and family as well. It was hard for me that my company does not take accountability for this type of behavior but I learned I can not control what I cannot control and started taking daily affirmations to focus on what I can control. I hope that helps. I myself haven’t gotten over some of the spiteful feelings I have with what happened to me but for my kids and families sake I strive to make everything possible effort to take care of my self so I can be my best self for them as well as the best in my career.

    my other recommendation is to not just take it. Speak up. This is hard when it is a manager but if you are able to set boundaries and communicate that behavior is not ok it helps you and the next woman. I know that is not easy but the outcome hopefully is better for you emotionally.

19. AnonymousFebruary 17,2023 at 7:32PM UTC

    A lot of what I have experienced in my career since becoming a mom would fall into the “unconscious bias” category. e.g. “Team building” activities that are actually dinners that take place after work, off-hand comments made from one male coworker to another with a vibe of “Haha, I’m glad I don’t have to do that—my wife takes care of that”, continually scheduling 8am meetings, even though I can’t join any earlier than 8:45am because I need to drop my kid off at school and have communicated that numerous times.

20. AnonymousFebruary 21,2023 at 10:11PM UTC

    You had me stopped at 8 AM meetings. Just find a new job on that alone. ?

21. Vanda LeeFebruary 18,2023 at 6:05AM UTC

    He's gaslighting you. Start looking for a different job environment that has a supportive female reputation.

22. surfnwriteFebruary 20,2023 at 7:20PM UTC

    Haven't read all the comments but after your list of specifics, it seems that this guy is just a general asshat and not someone who's specifically doing it because of your motherhood status. I think it's possible you are drawing a connection when there isn't one there. Not in any way to excuse his behavior, but it seems a non-merit-based place to work and I would consider looking elsewhere.

23. AnonymousFebruary 20,2023 at 11:22PM UTC

    Well the issue is that I haven't heard anyone else complain that he's condescending, bragging. No one else has complained about not doing required managerial tasks in a timely manner.

    I did hear one other person (another working mother) complain that she got the impression he wasn't going to do anything to help her in any way. The other women he deals with are either much older or don't have kids. I have heard other people complain he takes a while to respond at times (on the matter of a few days), but in my case, the lengths of time were ridiculous - two weeks up to a month. Really excessively long. And that was with reminders.

    There are a couple of things I didn't list originally. 1) A couple of male employees had issues using parental leave, and he did absolutely nothing to help them. He didn't try to work with HR to get the issues resolved. In one case, it took one employee's wife going into labor for anything to happen. And it was because I complained, not my boss. Another male employee took a particularly long parental leave, and the guy was not thrilled. Our company upped the parental leave policy by two weeks and he completely ignored the announcement. He doesn't give me the impression that he supports people taking leave, especially men. This hurts women. 2) During a DEI meeting he basically said he only really cares about diversity of thought (articles have been written about how this is just to make white males feel good about themselves) and he basically avoided any conversation about microaggressions and instead wanted to discuss how someone was being defensive with him (defensiveness is not a microaggression). The guy doesn't want to discuss actual issues that affect his female and POC staff.

24. AnonymousFebruary 20,2023 at 7:22PM UTC

    My boss never held my job up against being a working mother however he often spoke in a way about his wife that I found uncomfortable. He once told me that his wife was "mewing" for a new sofa but he wasn't about to buy it for her. It always bothered me that he didn't seem to see the value of her taking care of their family and house and how that allowed him the freedom to travel on a dime if the company needed him to.

    They later had problems I think he finally got them message that he wasn't all that and that he had better wake up to see what he had.

    So while it wasn't directly addressed to me, it did speak volumes of what he thought about women.

25. AnonymousFebruary 21,2023 at 8:07PM UTC

    Find your own support network outside of work and a mothers group of working women. Not every man or culture knows how to support both and unless we teach them and are the litmus test for the how to they just have no clue as to what to do. Train him, clearly he needs training. Don't compare your world to his personal world it should remain business only. For example if you are the person who picks up your children at the end of the day which means leaving set times or early tell him. Don't ask, just tell. If you get any spin back from him memorialize it and loop in HR. If you find that you are being treated differently or being held back because of any type of concern definitely keep a paper trail in case you need to legally.