I don't even know where to begin.

Anonymous

April 6,2022 at 3:23PM UTC

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I don't even know where to begin. I'm in line for a promotion at work. It's a new position in the company, I kind of designed it. The original idea had parts of what I do now, plus parts of what other people (both men) have done but nobody is doing now.

TPTB reworked the job description and showed it to me- It's about 90% of what I do now, plus about 90% of what the other people used to do. I said fine, I can do that, but I know how much the other people used to make so it better be worth my while.

Came back yesterday that they're thinking of offering $5K less annually than the last person who did the other job, they're just waiting for it to go through the giant bureaucracy to officially offer me the job. This would still be a sizeable bump for me, about $14K annually.

Needless to say, however, I'm LIVID about this.

Nothing is official yet, but how do I tell them, professionally, that the offer is insulting and if they actually go through with it I'm considering reporting them for discrimination? I have a feeling "Stick it in your blowhole" would not go over well.

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Debra SesholtzApril 6,2022 at 6:25PM UTC
I know you are livid about potentially being offered less than the other person made. It doesn't seem fair, but since you have nothing official, why not wait for an official offer? In the meantime, work on your negotiation plan for replying with what you think is fair compensation for the role. Since it is a new role, focus on the role and responsibilities. You can emphasize what you bring to the role, your experience, proactiveness in designing the role, taking on additional responsibilities, and any other points that support your position. Do some research on compensation for similar roles. If they won't bring up the financial compensation, try negotiating for additional non-financial items to make up for the difference. I would try to stay away from focusing on the last person's compensation.
AnonymousApril 6,2022 at 7:01PM UTC
The point of negotiation is to negotiate. Obviously it is in the company's interest to offer as little pay as possible. It's probably not got anything to do with you being a woman, unless you're seen frequent discriminatory behavior previously. I would just say that you need that extra $5k or no deal. More assertive negotiators tend to make more on average than agreeable people, regardless of sex.
AnonymousApril 6,2022 at 7:41PM UTC
Since you'll need to wait for the formal offer, you will have time to calm yourself and form a strategy to counter. Instead of being livid, be prepared with market research of like positions in the industry and outside. Also, since you know for an absolute fact that the last person was earning $5K more annually, that will help provide an inhouse comp guideline.
In your pitch include savings and contribution projections that your new role will provide and tie that to compensation as well. You can do this in the form of a request for quarterly bonuses and increases or however your company offers incentives (IE, stock, promotional track, etc)
Finally, keep your composure, be strategic and know your must haves and be prepared to leave if you are insulted by their final offer. No one should stay at an insulting level and continue to be livid everyday.
AnonymousApril 7,2022 at 10:11AM UTC
My last job paid me 12k less than the male who had the job before me. Had I known this and had I known I would be covering for three associates in addition to working de facto for another division so those men earning significantly more than I do could work from home, I would have demanding $20k more. Negotiate your pay! Have an unbeatable argument laid out so you can't be denied without it looking like its discrimination. PS> It is not illegal to pay people less or to discriminate. Sounds confusing and definitely seek a real lawyers advice but only about 1% of discrimination cases win.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 12:32PM UTC
This is so true. My ex husband was let go from his company after 25 years. He had received a review 2 weeks before with the highest ratings ever.
They dug up a receipt he had submitted (and had been approved) on an expense report 2 years previously. They fired him because of that.
He was the longest working person there and it was definitely age discrimination. He paid a lawyer a bunch of money to fight it and still lost. They replaced him with a young man making half his salary.
BethBApril 8,2022 at 12:11PM UTC
Sometimes it’s not about you at all. Sometimes it is about what a job is worth to a company. It’s a new position so it will be hard to prove discrimination.
Alexandra DApril 8,2022 at 12:21PM UTC
There’s a good chance your company only offers raises in bands. When I took my current position, I was flat out told that even though my new position was a three band jump I could only get the max two band increase (which I got).
i would be wary to point fingers or yell, just explain that with your skill set that you feel like you deserve a better salary of $X and come with receipts on why you will be a good investment. It may be simpler than you thought. and if they don’t pay you what you deserve? Take the role, and use it as a resume point to leverage what you’re worth elsewhere.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 12:23PM UTC
It is still a 14k a year jump. That's nothing to sneeze at. I understand the negotiation, and the suspected discrimination, and the expected discrimination, but, it's still a 14k a year jump. I think the thing to ask yourself is do you still want the job even though they may pay you 5k less than the predecessor?
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 12:27PM UTC
I am in the minority and I am ok with that but is 5k worth not getting the job at all? My company hasn't given out raises in almost 2 years because of income and to prevent layoffs. I would much rather keep my job and potentially my coworkers jobs than get 5%. I know 5K is a lot of money but so is 14K.
Michelle S.April 8,2022 at 2:35PM UTC
Have you looked anywhere else? I get weekly job offers and sometimes for way more than I’m making. As a matter fact, I took a job this year that was 40% more than I was making. More than. They there are a lot of companies that are growing.
Lisa HornungApril 8,2022 at 12:28PM UTC
It could be that they expect the candidate to negotiate, so they're offering $5k less as a buffer. Just ask for $10k more, and then negotiate down a bit. If they refuse to negotiate at all, then you should be livid.
Megan RussellApril 8,2022 at 2:33PM UTC
I agree! Companies tend to lowball offers to see what they can get you to agree to accept.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 12:37PM UTC
Definitely negotiate!!!
Don’t not negotiate. The worst they can do is say no. The earlier you get it before it goes through your company’s red tape the better.
A few tips that helped me:
1 sleep on it. I have been livid before too but I tend to struggle through my fury and articulate my argument. I say work on your argument to make it hard for them to say no to you.
2 Write your negotiated argument down. Practice a bit then verbally provide it ahead of your email to them.Your negotiation should be based on facts not emotion. Such as, your predecessor earned more. Ask why and their basis for it. Ask them what their grade/band was in that role. Ask about likelihood of annual pay increases. State your job’s breadth of responsibility. You mentioned you’d be doing your job plus more. That should earn more money. Talk about your credentials INSIDE and OUTSIDE the company. Consider your reporting lines and if you’d manage people. You can also negotiate training/development, joining professional groups, MORE vacation time, etc. All of that adds up, especially if they don’t want or can’t add the bump in pay.
3 Express your willingness and enthusiasm for the role. How it will help you grow within the company and your career. Show them you still want the role anyway.
4 Breathe! I’m not one to say just because it pays more than what you currently make to have this be ok. That’s dismissive of the fact that for some reason, they’re not paying you as much as the predecessor. It’s important to compare your current credentials to what the previous person did and what they brought to the table. Meaning that, you need to discuss these points with them. They’d be happy to pay less if you let them.
5 Always consider this: they need you more than you need them. If push comes to shove and they don’t offer a higher salary plus other goodies, there is a company out there willing to provide that for you. No need to stay, however scary that is.
You can do this! Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Lisa Olson TillyApril 8,2022 at 12:38PM UTC
How long had the previous person been doing that job? Is it possible that they started at your soon-to-be offered rate & just had raises?
On a side note - my company is splitting & I will be transeferring to the new company. I've already been doing 3x my "old" workload for the last 2 years, but hourly, so I"ve been getting OT. New position will be salary. I'm expecting it to be what I'm making with OT right now, but we'll see...I may be in the livid boat right with ya!
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 12:59PM UTC
Yes, negotiate, but know that while they are aware of the points you make, and others you may not know, they are putting a salary figure on the role with their own perspective, needs and abilities first. It most likely has nothing to do with discrimination and trust me, don’t start that without solid proof, as you will lose and probably need to leave entirely with nothing (I know, I did this and my case was much better). I don’t want to scare anyone away from true discrimination cries but be very mindful of the consequences if it’s not clear per the law. Also, to some extent, the salary may be based on an allowed capped raise for you. It’s just the reality of things. I’d say negotiate, respectfully and kindly yet firmly, and then decide upon the job on its merits and the raise you’ll get, not on what happened with others before you.
Jennifer BrinleeApril 8,2022 at 1:08PM UTC
I would suggest pointing out the things that you've done which are a part of this job. Not having to train a new person on the 90% of what you've already been doing should be an attractive quality.
Kimberly WorrickApril 8,2022 at 1:10PM UTC
Ask what duties have been removed to equate the 5K reduction in salary. If none have then insist on the whole amount.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 1:14PM UTC
There are many things to consider when comparing salaries. Do you have the same level of experience as the people who did those tasks before? How is the company doing financially now compared to when this person did those task? Did they have other responsibilities that held more value to the company than what you’ll be doing? When they were hired, what was the recruiting field like - i.e., what was the going rate compared to now for similar roles?
Maria Paula CalvoApril 8,2022 at 1:47PM UTC
I can perceive you have a strong self-confidence, that is really good!!!! Still, nothing is offered until it truly is, so my first recommendation would be not to asume or give anything for granted.
Then, in case it happens, I think it would be a perfect opportunity for you to negotiate emphasizing all your strengths and valuable contributions already made to the company and how you will be able to provide increased value in a unique manner in the new role.
Finally, I believe that if you are working for a good company, they may consider overall equity of compensations for the different roles so make sure your initial assessments of the appropriate salary are well grounded and that they could give you a good level of satisfaction with it, instead of just adding up 90% of your past plus 90% of the others that may be unrealistic compared to the value of the 10%s left away. Don´t think about this as if it was pure arithmetics.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 2:26PM UTC
Are you prepared to explain how you will be providing $19k more value per year? They would likely ask you that question if you are saying that $14k isn't enough.
Michelle S.April 8,2022 at 2:30PM UTC
I wouldn’t ever mention the thought of reporting someone for discrimination.
You do that quietly and behind the scenes when it’s time. But threatening would pretty much end your career there.
If they come back with only 14 K, then I would ask why they felt as though the job you’ll do is worth 5K less. Not to mention, aren’t you doing additional work on top of that? I would add 10 K to that 14 and tell them you can’t accept more and otherwise, there are so many jobs out there offering 40% more than they were last year.
Michelle S.April 8,2022 at 2:31PM UTC
But at the end of the day, 5K really is a drop…
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 2:55PM UTC
First, it is surprisingly difficult to get a raise within one company. So, while this is less than you expected, without a real vertical promotion this is a lot of money, and not an insult
2nd, you may get the other person in trouble if they told you how much they made.
3rd, most states are at-will, meaning they can fire you without reason, so be careful with how you proceed. I am not saying that you are wrong, I really cannot tell, just be cautious.
Caroline DuffyApril 8,2022 at 3:08PM UTC
Just want to correct your second point because this is a dangerous misconception that should not be perpetuated: your employer can not legally retaliate against workers for discussing their wages.
Per the National Labor Relations Board: Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection.
EMILY KIKUE FRANKApril 8,2022 at 3:14PM UTC
"Given the amount of work involved, I see this position as something in the range of $XXX. Is there room for negotiation?"
AnonymousApril 9,2022 at 12:55AM UTC
I wouldn't even ask If there was room for negotiation. This Is my # period
AnonymousApril 9,2022 at 8:27PM UTC
I agree with this approach. If they are unwilling to negotiate, say thank you for the potential opportunity and simply withdraw your interest/application. Let them go into the open market and attempt to hire. I suspect they will have a rude awakening to current market conditions. Good Luck!
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 3:26PM UTC
Livid ? Discrimination? A littlle insulting I can understand but please , for your own sake don't go to your bosses with these words or attitudes. Take time to calm down and talk calm and professionally to them.The last thing you want to do is to speak with them upset like this and be asked to leave.Best of luck
Heidi RayApril 8,2022 at 4:08PM UTC
Go to them with solid data, and perhaps even a small presentation as to what you think your salary should be: years of experience, additional responsibilities, management of people, skills required, salaries of similar positions in your industry, and past excellent performance.
Pam BendallApril 8,2022 at 4:22PM UTC
If you’re only making $14,000 annually, that’s around $270 a week, About 6.75 an hour, you could make more working atTarget. I’m in Memphis Tennessee, Starting pay at target is $15 an hour at Hobby lobby it’s gone up to $18 an hour Amazon warehouse pays over $20 an hour. Shoppers at Kroger is $11.75. You Really Need To Look Around
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 4:29PM UTC
it's a 14K raise in her salary, not a 14K salary.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 4:28PM UTC
as this is a newly created role, your salary negotiation needs to be based on the actual duties and comparable roles in your industry.
going in and asking for a specific number based on what other ppl in different roles are making isn't a strong foundation to build on. and bc this role is not the same role as that of the men, you would have a hard time proving discrimination, so i would caution you about making that threat.
AnonymousApril 8,2022 at 6:08PM UTC
I am confused. If it is a new position that you created, how did someone else do it?
It is a slippery slope when you start talking about discrimination.
Bernadette M MartinezApril 8,2022 at 7:14PM UTC
I would be furious too. That is an insult considering you're going to be doing two jobs now. "Better than what you've got now" and fair compared BOTH to what the market rate and previous payments for male counter parts are is nothing short of sexism at work.
You may want to look up local employment attorneys and talk to one of them about the details before dropping that in your employer's lap though. Or at least have an exit strategy ready because that will not go over well.
I would absolutely come prepared with your qualifications, experience detailed out, and market research for comparable positions both in your company and outside it. Ask what their justification is for the decrease in compensation based on the historical data.
Eloisa JacintoApril 10,2022 at 12:38AM UTC
Hi.I work in Compensation and directly comparing your salary with other incumbents will not be a fair way and effective way to discuss your new salary. There are a lot of factors that go with salaries. I suggest to start a conversation with HR or your boss on how the Company values jobs and where does the new job sits in the org. Come in prepare with some industry data (although you might see less comparable positions) and discuss with calm and levelheadedness. Don’t bring in discrimination on the table without factual basis. Discern well.
AnonymousApril 11,2022 at 1:52PM UTC
We have a scoring system that determines your salary offer. It's based heavily on your years of experience, education, and how you did during the interview. You may want to get clarification about how they determine the salary they offer. I scored very high based on my years of experience and others hired did not. That is the only reason my salary is higher than my peers.
AnonymousApril 11,2022 at 3:31PM UTC
I would like to understand better why you think this is discrimination? They're still offering you a sizable bump. If I'm understanding you correctly, this is a new position created for you? No one else in your organization is applying and/or interviewing for this role?
I understand your frustration, but in reality, this is a new position to your company and they need to determine if it's worth the additional $5K annually. If you're really adamant about negotiating - maybe ask them to re-evaluate in 6 months (mid-year review) and see if they'll bump you up $2.5K and then at the end of the year, the remaining $2.5K. On the other hand, you could fight so hard for the $5K and get into the role and realize you're still being underpaid. I'm always up for negotiating, but you also need to have a baseline in which to start from. Tis is your chance to establish that baseline. Good luck! Hope the offer comes through as you want.
AnonymousApril 13,2022 at 4:14PM UTC
OK- I'm the original poster. Figured I should update.
I calmed down. :)
Emailed the big boss (the one who holds the purse strings) and laid out my concerns. Said I was really excited about the job, but I was not excited about the pay, that there were inequities with people who had done similar jobs in the past. Would he like to sit down f2f and chat about it with me and my current boss?
He said yes, and the 3 of us talked. It was good- I was able to voice my concerns, had taken the time to get some data to back up those concerns, and I had suggestions on how to proceed.
I didn't get any more money, YET, but I was able to get a review scheduled in 6 months to review and see how I'm hitting the metrics.
I'm satisfied with this.
Thank you all for your input!
AnonymousApril 13,2022 at 10:46PM UTC
Yay! Good for you and congratulations! Please keep us posted :)
Paula BrantnerApril 18,2022 at 3:42PM UTC
I'm glad you were able to speak out and get some of what you wanted, and the ability to revisit things in the future. At least you've made your case, and if something more were to happen down the line, you've pointed out the inequities that they then chose not to fix.