Recruiters seem to be wanting to discuss salary upfront these days, but if it's a tad too low, is it wise to negotiate upfront when you're desperate for a job?

41 Comments

1. AnonymousApril 28,2024 at 3:48AM UTC

   You know your floor. Don't deviate from it. Many are in the same position right now. It sucks because it's not a long term plan for the employer nor employee. They've made it clear what their "ceiling" is. Question-is that ceiling reflective of your skillset and experience? I'm in a similar position in which some income is better than nothing. However, I know what my bills are and I know what I bring to the table. I'm willing to take a cut in this tough market, but not one that doesn't cover my mortgage and bills.

2. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistApril 28,2024 at 3:57AM UTC

   So I can only speak to my own personal experience - I speak with candidates about compensation on every first call. I have to work within a salary band and I need to know we're in the same ballpark.

   Compensation is part of the reason I move candidates forward. If they're not sure they can work within my salary band, I will strongly encourage them to think about it for a day or two and circle back with me.

   I would much rather have a candidate take the time to think about it, discuss it would whoever in their life is impacted by their decision and get back to me and say I've thought about it and I can't do $75k - ok, thank you for your time. Than have them say yes, I can do $75k, put them and our hiring team through the interview process, make then an offer for $75k and only to then have them say, I need a mimimum of $90k.

   Because if I could have paid them $90k, I would have told them that in our first conversation. I may have a LITTLE wiggle room, but not $15k on a $75k base.

   If a candidate needs a minimum of $90k, why would they interview for a position that pays $75k.

   In most companies except the very smallest, we work within salary bands. We may have some wiggle room, but I've most likely already had a conversation about maximum base salary with the hiring manager when we did the launch call.

   Personally, I would not recommend you say that you were previously making $120k - that would be a concern for many hiring managers - they would be concerned that a large salary drop would have you out the door as soon as you found a higher paying position - likely around the time you were fully trained and productive.

   If the recruiter asks about comp on the first call and says $75k is their max - you can ask is there an wiggle room on that or ask if there's any room for negotiation. That answer will tell you how to proceed. If they ask what you're looking for, you can say you were thinking of or hoping for around $90k.

   Regarding trying to negotiate that big a bump if extended an offer, my first question would be you agreed to $75k on our first call (and probably on subsequent calls), if you needed at least $90k, why didn't we talk about that then.

   Please let me know if you have any questions.

   GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. AnonymousApril 28,2024 at 1:26PM UTC

   So funny thing happened at my last job. I didn't know what I was doing, so I messed up and said $80k sounds good during the initial interview. Then when they extended an offer for $80k, I asked for $85 or something. They came back with the question of why did I say I was fine with $80k initially but pushing back now, I said I did my research haha, and they came back with a revised offer of $95k. I guess that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore. That and other decisions were probably the reasons why they got sold to PE and did mass layoffs last year ?

4. ppinesApril 28,2024 at 8:00AM UTC

   I was in a similar position in August 2020. I had been unemployed since July 2019, having applied for over 1500 roles during that time (I kid you not)! I finally landed a role that paid me LESS THAN HALF of what I was previously earning.... and I took it. It was either that, or the dole as I had been living on my savings and quickly running out. By this stage, I had asked the bank to put my mortgage payments on hold while I sorted out my employment situation. I started looking for other roles after about 6 months and when the 1 year contract was up, I was able to secure a role that paid me close to what I was previously earning. I did struggle, but in the end I got to hang onto my property. If I hadn't taken on the low paying role I would probably have remained unemployed for a lot longer and possibly been forced to sell my property.

5. AnonymousApril 28,2024 at 1:32PM UTC

   Just so I understand, could you please elaborate on the part where companies sometimes have a "stipulation that they can't hire over sixty or seventy five percent of the band for the salary"? Like if they say the band is $50k-75k then they can't actually extend a final offer for more than ~$68k?

6. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistApril 28,2024 at 7:28PM UTC

   So there is typically a salary band, a target salary and sometimes a starting salary range.

   Ideally, what you're looking for is the target salary - what they are looking to pay. And maybe the starting salary range (which usually is about a 10k or 20k swing- $100k to $110k or $150k to $170k for example).

   So in may companies, there is a wide salary band - it could be as much as a $50k range (possibly more if the company is using geographic differentials) - say $70k to $120k - that is the salary band for the life of the position. Like if you're going to be in that role for10 years, you will be in that salary band and have upside to get raises.

   The starting salary range might be $95 to $105 with a target of $100k. In most companies I've worked for, they typically target the midpoint of the salary band for an experienced candidate. Virtually no one gets brought in at the top of the salary band. If they made you an offer for say, $120k, how are they going to give you a raise next year? And the following year?

   There are also compression issues. What other people in the same or similar job are making - again, most companies work hard to have parity. Which candidates should appreciate - I think it's good to know that you won't start a job and in 6 months, the company won't hire someone into the same job making $20k more than you.

   So in your $50k to $75k example, it probably depends on if that's the starting salary range or the salary band for the life of the position. It also may depend on what others in that position are currently making (or possiblly what the person you're replacing was making - because budgets). If there is a peer to that position with 5 years experience doing that job making $68k, would they bring someone in at $68k? It depends on their experience/background.

   I can say that at none of the companies I've worked for is it likely that an offer would come in at $75k. The only time you'd see that is probably at a very small company that isn't bound by salary bands and isn't concerned about parity.

   All that said, every company is different and each hiring manager is different. Some are cheap, some are not. Some have tighter budgets than others. Some have more wiggle room than others.

   Please let me know if you have any questionsl.

7. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 4:26PM UTC

   Thank you SO MUCH for explaining!

   If hypothetically the recruiter brings up the salary range as let's say $50k-75k during the interview process, is it appropriate for me to ask whether that's the starting salary band or the salary band for the lifetime of the position? Knowing that would be helpful for negotiating the offer, but is it appropriate for me to ask about it?

8. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistApril 29,2024 at 4:31PM UTC

   You can ask about that - you're correct, that could help with negotiations - but ulimately what you want to know is the target salary. I'd recommend you ask about both.

9. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 12:24PM UTC

   Please take the $75K. You are in a desperate situation. Beggars can't be choosers!

10. GirlBossanova934974April 29,2024 at 12:42PM UTC

    I would take the $75K and be done with it. You are NOT stuck for life with this $75K job. You can walk out anytime you want to and get a better paying job but you have to pay your bills right now. I would recommend you steer clear of TECH. TECH is now a very double edged sword. Pay is good but job security is ZERO! Try other industries where the pay is a little lower but benefits are better and you are not mass fired by the thousands every time some SLEAZEBALL CEO wants to add $20M to his/her bonus by axing thousands of workers at any given moment.

11. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 4:18PM UTC

    So true! Though nothing is safe these days - the largest employed in my city, an established bank that has been considered the best company to work for, has recently done layoffs to increase profit margins and a relative of mine has been affected. Nowhere is safe... But tech is the least safe.

12. Terrie McWhorterApril 29,2024 at 2:32PM UTC

    Know your worth!!! Speak up, own your moment and let them know what you want. You wont get what you want if you don't put it out there and ask for it.

    Best of Luck!

13. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 3:35PM UTC

    Yes.

14. Krystin MorganApril 29,2024 at 3:54PM UTC

    If the disparity is that high, I'd think hard about what is actually feasible for you. There is virtually no chance a company will nearly double the salary, and if you say $75k is fine and then ask for $120k, you're going to seem out of touch AND there's almost no chance they'll actually give you that amount.

    So what amount COULD you live with? And how confident are you that you can argue for a higher salary post-offer? If they're up front about the range, you're going to want to bring a strong argument for why they should pay YOU more (your experience level being higher than what they asked for, for example). If you feel like you'll be able to do that, then your last example here ("sounds okay depending on other benefits...") is your best bet.

15. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 4:53PM UTC

    If you are dealing with internal recruiters that work for a company the reason they are asking is because that is the budget the hiring manager has for the role. If you are desperate for work and need it let it go and take the first role offered to you. You can continue to look after that which is not ideal but will short term solve the larger problem for you. Tech has been decimated and it is taking 6-9-12 months to find new roles in some disciplines. Negotiating with the recruiter is also not going to help as they are not the owner of the purse strings, merely the facilitator and screen for the front end and back end of the process.

    Take the job if offered and keep looking. Best of luck.

16. Danielle CastilloApril 29,2024 at 5:03PM UTC

    Since your situation is desperate, I would just take the 75k until something better comes along. You could ask the recruiter or hiring manager when you could expect a raise. But other than that I wouldn't mention the 15% higher pay in this terrible job market. They'll most likely move on to someone else if you tell them you want more money. 75k is better than 0. Good luck.

17. maria roseApril 29,2024 at 6:21PM UTC

    All of us, here have been in that in between jobs situation and all hope to replace their lost jobs with a similar income earning level. Getting laid off is not a planned act, and I have not even going to discuss why it occurred, but it does appear that you have gotten over the destress of losing your former job and have been actively seeking new employment for a while now ( 7 months) in a jobs b market where it appears that the layoffs in your field is a reaction by employers all around to lower labor costs. Technology is just the latest fields of work affected. At this point, you really need to evaluate your expenses to determine what is the minimum amount you can survive on without going over your income coming in. Use an app or do it the old fashion hardcopy way of writing down everything you spend money on and what is considered necessities bills should be your highest priority—housing, utilities, commuting costs and food—you will be surprised at that total and what you can cut out of your budget. That should give you a realistic estimate of where you want your new starting salary to be ( forget what you did earn because that salary is in the past with the current job market) . You have 2 choices ahead of you keep searching for the elusive job that pays you the high salary you want or taking a job , with benefits, that pays a bit less and gets you back on the market as an employed individual—Good luck

18. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 5:59AM UTC

    I took a 20k hit and know it’s going to be a struggle for a bit until I can prove my worth, or something new opens up. I will keep looking and am currently in a 90 day “right fit” position which seems to be the new norm in my area. The hours are insane 9-6/9-8/10-6 etc including weekends makes a second hard to cover the lost pay portion but I’ll keep swimming, I don’t have the extra income to buffer me and didn’t want to hit my security money waiting for the perfect role. Best of luck!

19. Becky BouwmanApril 30,2024 at 12:38PM UTC

    Really the only question you need to answer right now to make your decision is: do I want to keep my house or not?

20. MichelleApril 30,2024 at 12:43PM UTC

    If they bring up salary straight away, DO NOT give them a number!

    Tell them that you're negotiable.
    If they press you for a number, they're trying to weed out people that are asking more too much.
    I've noticed that a LOT of companies are severely low-balling high paying positions, thinking that they're 'slick' saving the company money, but, what does it do for them, when they don't pay the candidates what they're asking for and then the candidate doesn't stay in the end, because a company DOES pay them what they're worth and then it gives that company a 'bad name.'
    They've wasted time and money on training and project costs when that unhappy employee leaves.

    You should always WAIT to negotiate salary until they give you the job offer, and then, IF you DO give them a 'range' of what you're seeking, and in the end, they still low-ball you, you can turn around and ask for more, and then you can plead your case with WHY you feel you deserve more than what they're offering you.
    There's ALWAYS room for negotiation, even though they tell you that there's not.
    Companies these days want EVERYTHING for NOTHING.

21. AnonymousMay 1,2024 at 2:13AM UTC

    See, that's the exact wisdom I've been told for years too - don't discuss salary upfront, the recruiter doesn't bring it up either until the final stages, then you make them name the number first and you negotiate from there. But it seems like now they try to weed out people who want "too much" upfront and those old strategies don't work anymore. And it's so silly, everyone always wants to make as much as possible, like if you ask me how much I wanna make, I can tell you $500k but that's not in the realm of possibilities here, isn't it, so why won't you just tell me what you can afford first?! Ugh!

22. AnonymousMay 1,2024 at 12:09PM UTC

    You might ask what is the position paying as far as they know ( and of course the recruiter knows). Wait for an answer. Then shake your head enthusiasticly and smile. It's then up to you to decide if this is worth a next step or not: Consider if SHOULD YOU BE GIVEN THE OFFER, would there be any wiggle room for negotiation about any piece of the position. That's when you have the most leverage.

23. Michele DarleyApril 30,2024 at 12:48PM UTC

    As an internal recruiter I talk about salary in the first call. If you're looking for 120K and I can pay 75K I will have a very candid conversation with you about the reality of me not going to be able to get past the 75K because we're a small company with budget constraints.

    If you can afford the pay cut, you want to talk about how the opportunity is interesting, the company aligns with your values and you'd be willing to take the pay cut to explore the opportunity - not because you need the job .

    The reason I say this is because if I think you're desperate, I will also consider that you will take my job until the higher paying one comes along.

    Good luck!

24. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 12:55PM UTC

    Salary was brought up in the beginning (before speaking with the hiring manager). I knew I was overqualified also needed a job. I did ask if there was any wiggle room. They did come back with only a 5k increase. I got through a few more interviews but luckily got another job offer paying more and remote. Because money is being discussed so early during screening I say ask. They can only tell you know and in some cases I have let them know I want the max when the pay is lower. It might push you out of the chance of being interviewed so you need to consider that. If they think you are worth it, they will call you back.

25. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 1:08PM UTC

    There is no "right" approach because it's pretty clear no 2 recruiters see things the same way. I think what you said in the last sentence was a good bridge: that you're interested, but you want to see what the whole package looks like. That is a gamble (I've tried it--refused to name a salary because I want to know what the entire landscape looks like, job and offer, etc. and it didn't work) but if it's something you feel really passionately about, it doesn't hurt to say.

    If they reject you and/or refuse, it does become a datapoint as to whether you want to move forward OR that it's not the right place for you. Good luck!

26. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 1:45PM UTC

    Definitely try to negotiate for other benefits- don't make a certain # a "deal breaker" . See if you and your partner can get better deals on mortgage and other services; since they work you're both less likely to get flat "No, your payment is your payment. End of conversation." Good luck!

27. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 2:01PM UTC

    I would want clarification on a few things. Are you in the state of California? If so, you are under no obligation to share your current or most recent salary. additionally, are these recruiters external or internal recruiters? You would not necessarily be limiting your chances with the external recruiter as it can often be a more open conversation. If it is with an internal recruiter and they ask what you are looking for in terms of salary, I’d clarify the range and share what you are open to considering in that range. Although this may not be you, several tech jobs paid higher /overpaid in the market for a few years trying to keep up for demand for talent. The layoffs have brought down some of the height that existed. If you received a significant increase during the last few years before your layoff, the market is paying somewhere between pre- pandemic and post pandemic. (Not a 50 percent pay cut but some decline). It also depends on your field within tech.

28. AnonymousMay 1,2024 at 2:05AM UTC

    Thank you! No, not in California and the recruiter is internal in this case. I'd be more than happy to make the salary I got pre-pandemic (in the $90k's) but it doesn't seem like that will happen any time soon...

29. IntentionGirl147396April 30,2024 at 2:24PM UTC

    Do not try to negotiate an offer that you haven't received. It's a good way to end up in the reject pile.

30. Yana MyaskovskayaApril 30,2024 at 2:29PM UTC

    Depending on what you were doing in tech, there might be better options for in other industries where you can continue using your skills.

    For example, if you were doing any kind of implementation, customer success, analytics, or solution engineering work, try looking at roles at places in the health sector or in distribution.

    Often, these less trendy companies have a real need for technical talent with few strong candidates and they pay outsized amounts because they have the budget for it.

    Plus, they tend to be very stable careers with low turnover and layoffs. You can find a list of companies like this on the National Association of Wholesale Distributers site.

31. AnonymousMay 1,2024 at 2:03AM UTC

    Oh I am 100% taking my skillet and trying to find jobs anywhere else but tech! My job title and experience isn't strictly tech, it was just my last employer's sector.

32. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 3:29PM UTC

    I was laid off recently and accepted a job this month that pays 60% less with a title I held 15 years ago. This is the 2nd time in my career I have gone backwards, the 1st was around 2009 (when economy was terrible). It is a hit to my ego however, I am not interested in scrapping by to pay bills and going into debt. The alternative could have been even less at minimum wage outside my industry. Bottom line, family matters most and hopefully this to will pass.

33. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 3:30PM UTC

    What you said in your last paragraph is good.

    I've been in this position several times during my current 7 month job search.

    Based on my personal experience, if you try to negotiate higher at this early stage, they will move on to other candidates. The hard truth is there are thousands of other people that will take this role at that low pay, just to pay their bills.

    I literally had this happen to me AGAIN this week. I have vowed to NEVER tell them what I made previously or try to negotiate at this early stage.

    If you REALLY want/need this particular job, then based on my personal experience, you should NOT disclose how much you were making before. You need to get them to TELL YOU what the range is for the position. How do you do that? Well, you tell them based on Glassdoor, this role probably pays around $75k. And then ask them, "does that sound right, or is there a certain range you've determined?". Once they give you a range, tell them that based on your experience and skill set, you feel you should be at the higher side of the range."

    Good luck - it's such a slippery slope. The sad truth is that wages have gone down and this is an employers market. So they have the upper hand. Do not disclose your previous income or they will move on.

34. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 3:47PM UTC

    Is this job in the same field? Either way 75k is better than 0. Take the hit and look for more money elsewhere. You don't owe a company loyalty if more money comes along and they can't give it to you. Or hold out for more money with no prospects. It depends on you.

35. Jennifer K. BouletApril 30,2024 at 7:20PM UTC

    I am in the same exact position. I got laid off from Tech layoffs at the end of 2022 and it’s been five months since I’ve worked my severance and unemployment has already stopped. I’ve even had to use my 401(k) to pay my rent. I am getting leads from recruiters for high paying jobs. However, the jobs either get put on hold., they hire internally, or they say I’m overqualified. I have no more 401(k) to survive. I’m not sure what to do.

36. AnonymousMay 1,2024 at 2:50PM UTC

    Hot take: My strategy is to be agreeable at first, then I work hard to have a competing offer.
    Your best negotiating tool is to perform
    well in the interview and create competition. I have succeeded in achieving a 20% increase in salary this way. They know if they are under market value and take advantage so I suggest that you do the same
    :)

37. Farah BajwaMay 2,2024 at 4:33AM UTC

    I know this isn't ideal but have you considered side gigs like driving for uber/lyft, or taking contract jobs just to get by until you find a better fit?

    To answer your question though, if this recruiter is a 3rd party, im usually more open with them regarding what i want because they aren't loyal to a particular company, they are loyal to their commission. if its an internal recruiter, I really try to avoid the salary discussion so I'll say that I'm more focused on the fit. if they push then i say as you say "its negotiable" or "it depends on the overall package"

    Really try to focus on positioning yourself as their candidate of choice to gain the upper hand because once you give a number, its very challenging to raise it.

38. Brandon AndersonMay 2,2024 at 12:24PM UTC

    You’re giving me anxiety…. Why don’t you just be confident in yourself…. And not doubt…..

39. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 2:03PM UTC

    Please consider sharing your practical advice or personal insight to help inform the OPs situation. This site is not meant for casual responses.

40. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 3:56PM UTC

    If they ask what are you looking for, don't give them a number.

    Instead, ask for the range and ask for the total benefit package (they may have great stock options or profit sharing and/or 401(k) match that increases the value). I would not volunteer what you were making because if they cannot meet it, they will most likely see you as a flight risk and not consider you. If the range is within what you can live on, then say you are open to pursuing the opportunity. Negotiate once you receive an offer.

41. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 4:40PM UTC

    Wow, what a tough position! Obviously your anxiety is going to be high and you're super focused on the immediate future of getting bills paid.

    I'm curious though, if these jobs are paying so far beneath your last salary are you targeting the right roles? Women so often undervalue their experience and expertise, and will say things like "I'm not 100% qualified for that role" or "It pays so much more than I made/make, so they won't hire me." And the reality is that you're probably more than qualified. If you're only applying to roles in which you feel super safe, and more than qualified you might be selling yourself short. They could see you as too qualified and likely to accept the role and then leave soon after once you get a better paying role, and therefore, not worth the time and money to hire you. I would suggest you expand your search to roles that you consider to be above your level. Reach for a new level. Also look on sites like Ladder that specialize in 6-figure jobs. But if you're going into negotiations with desperation (even if it is legitimate) they're going to feel that and it's going to affect their confidence that you want the job not just need it.