Looking for advice/assistance with a severance package negotiation.

50 Comments

1. AnonymousApril 6,2023 at 4:35PM UTC

   Curious, how long were you there? Ask the attorneys if they could write one. It shouldn't take them long as they most likely have a template. It also shouldn't be that costly. Good Luck.

2. AnonymousApril 6,2023 at 8:06PM UTC

   I was employed with them 7 years (6.71 to be exact). The attorney advice has been different. One says she didn’t believe an attorney letter would be helpful and I should file the EEOC claim then negotiate . Another said they don’t write letters. Two didn’t want to deal with it as there’s no documentation. The age conversation has come up but there is nothing that points to my job elimination as age related. I am running out of time. I have until 4/12/23 to sign the agreement. I need to get something done asap.

3. Nibor EroomApril 6,2023 at 4:37PM UTC

   I’m interested in following this post as I was in a similar situation once.

4. AnonymousApril 6,2023 at 5:31PM UTC

   The severance and the EEOC complaint are not tied together. I would strongly suggest you have an attorney write what is called a demand letter asking for more. You could also have an age related complaint as well. Being over 60 means you have 21 days to sign off on things. States can no longer block you from sharing your documents on why your were terminated. It would seem that you want to be employed again so when you do these things do note in some states this information should you go to a legal challenge becomes accessible public record. This could harm you further in some cases. Not knowing how long you were at your employer generally they have standards if they are big enough around terminations and packages. Your adding into that letter the reasons you believe were behind it means the company must defend that they did not do these things should it go before an administrative law judge. A good lawyer might propose an amount and then mediation to keep the dirty business out of a court. Most companies would settle out of court to avoid costly legal fees. Be sure that you have copies of what is in your personnel folder - ask for all of it. They are required by law to provide this to you. Be sure that any severance letter that you sign has a mutual non-disparagement clause in it. Put that in the letter as well so that if they are asked you mutually agreed to end the relationship, then they cannot share internally or externally that you were fired. Your position when you interview elsewhere should be my career trajectory and some of the paths the company was taking no longer aligned so I decided to leave. Also as an FYI it is generally taking 3-6 months these days for the average person to find a new role.

5. AnonymousApril 6,2023 at 11:10PM UTC

   I find it interesting that the attorneys who suggested you request it yourself are the same ones who won't/don't have letters for you. See if LegalZoom has anything. I'd tread lightly on this though, as it could backfire. Have you checked with your State Employment office or whatever it's called? Wondering if they might have some help for you.

6. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 10:40AM UTC

   It’s interesting and disappointing that the attorneys are not wanting to write the letters. I’m in a ‘Right to Work’ state so it is challenging on a good day. Most were very busy and my situation was not necessarily lucrative enough.

7. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 10:57AM UTC

   Sounds like legal doesn't believe in your suit, hence giving you things you could do on your own. I think you may want to consider looking at the full scope of this. If you've signed that agreement already and have accepted the funds it's even tougher, sorry to say. Caution if legal counsel won't even take it on. Good luck.

8. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 9:25PM UTC

   Haven’t signed it yet. Attorneys think there is something there but it’s a long haul case. I would just like to move forward but with some additional severance as 1 week per year is low.

9. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 2:18PM UTC

   Just doesn't sound like you're really getting good sound legal advice. Deterring a possible client due to a long haul? I also don't think you can switch out it to file.

10. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 12:39PM UTC

    How long have you worked for the company.
    I was told the standard for severence pay is 1 month for the number of years worked. 6 weeks seems short. Since you are 60, would it be easier to file a claim on age discrimination instead of the HR issues you mentioned?

11. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 9:22PM UTC

    I was there 6.71 years. Their standard severance is 1 WEEK for every year at my level (I don’t have direct reports). I am asking for 2 weeks for every year, which is reasonable and fairly standard.

12. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 1:47PM UTC

    If you decide to request additional severance, you'll need to do so asap. You are now in the 2nd quarter and the company will not consider your request for much longer, if at all.

13. AnonymousApril 7,2023 at 1:50PM UTC

    Your estimation on finding a new role at your age (I am 65, so not throwing shade) is waaaay ambitious. I was laid off in June 2022 - I'm still hunting the right role (EA to CEO or C-Suite) and I have an MBA and a CAPM. You can always ask for additional severance - you may not get it, but you can't know that until you ask.

14. Jennifer WeaverApril 7,2023 at 6:03PM UTC

    Several years ago I decided to not file an EEOC complaint for your exact reasons. The EEOC told me I had a case, but would need to prove it (not he said she said stuff) and it could take up to three years to resolve. I took the four weeks they gave me and moved on (as best I could). You can always ask for more severance and there are a lot of examples online. Most importantly, keep it short and fact based.

15. Lorraine HerreraApril 8,2023 at 12:23PM UTC

    This is the new law, is illegal to ask you to resign to your right to file on EEOC in exchange for severance. Just file and if they included that clause in your severance, include it in your EEOC claim ad as another violation.

    https://www.nlrb.gov/news-outreach/news-story/board-rules-that-employers-may-not-offer-severance-agreements-requiring

16. GirlBossanova934974April 8,2023 at 12:33PM UTC

    I settled an age discrimination lawsuit 10 months ago. I had a mountain of documents with open admission from the employer that he was replacing me with a younger employee. I was able to find out the new employee's name and the day he started which was the same day I was let go. We settled for a little less than $200K. That being said, without documentation, your case is very challenging. 6 weeks of severance is a decent figure. 12 weeks would be better. The big question in my mind is leverage! Where is your leverage? In my case, we could have gone to court in 45 days after the settlement and could have won $300,000-$500,000 with damages. The employer in my case, decided to go after my reputation several times after my termination. So there was a real problem for him. In your case, I don't see a lot of leverage. It will take probably 12-18 months to get a court date. Candidly, I would settle for the 6 weeks of severance.

17. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 12:55PM UTC

    I have had success in this space, for a different reason. I was laid off last November, it was 100% pregnancy discrimination. I spoke with employment attorneys as well who said I absolutely had a case - based on timing of when I told HR I was pregnant, when I was placed on administrative leave then effectively laid off all gave me leverage if I went to EEOC.. however I was told the same "it would take months to years to see any resolution" In my case the company was also going through an acquisition so I was afraid waiting could result in the company no longer being around for me to get a settlement from.

    My first round of negotiating the company offered me 4 months of severance + 4 months of benefits. I was not on their health benefits and had health through my spouse so cobra benefits wasn't something that made much sense to me so I asked that they give me 6 months of severance and effectively gave them back the 4 months of cobra.

    I would take a look at the package they are offering, do you need the one month of benefits? Can you potentially ask for that as 4 weeks of pay vs medical premium? This way you get 10 weeks of severance instead?

    I have to second another comment, you are being very optimistic in this market, I have already been unemployed for 6 months and it is VERY ROUGH out here. I would try to get the most $$ to help you now or give you a cushion. Good luck!

18. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 1:42PM UTC

    A separation agreement’s real purpose is to prevent anyone from suing, taking badly about the company and keeping confidentiality. The severance I was given was what everyone gets, but definitely less than the standard most companies provide of 2 weeks per year of service (they give one week per year), which was surprising because they are so colleague centric in every other way.

    I definitely need the benefits but based on a conversation I had with someone in the company, they are not flexible on providing additional benefits. I am a cancer survivor and need to continue with my mental health providers and medication.

    The whole situation is surreal as my last review was good, I received a larger than typical salary increase at the start of the new year, and had a good reputation within the company.

19. Ann Tirrell-BurtonApril 8,2023 at 1:38PM UTC

    My position on signing the severance agreement is “” you are signing this under duress because you need to feed yourself or your family”. But at the end of the day I would still file that claim.

20. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 1:39PM UTC

    Forgive me if this is repetitive of anyone’s advice, as I have not read the others comments, however, I was recently in a similar situation where I was wrongly terminated and had to consult attorneys. It was brought to my attention that once you negotiate severance, since they aren’t legally obligated to give you severance, the first offer becomes null and you potentially lose out on the offer all together. So be careful with that. If they aren’t legally obligated to offer or give you severance in the first place, then negotiating it could potentially cause you to lose out on the whole deal and you end up with nothing. Also, wrongful termination/ EEOC lawsuits potentially can take years and if you need income and benefits now, then you’re better off taking what you’re being offered and moving on. It was a hard decision on my part to do the same, but it was best for my mental health and honestly the company ended up doing layoffs shortly afterwards, so financially they aren’t in the best shape. That’s my personal experience obviously, but I’d hate to see you in a situation with zero severance and jobless as well.

21. G C HesseApril 8,2023 at 3:39PM UTC

    I'm confused....why would you say anything about mental health.

    You can't renegotiate what you've already accepted.

    You can hire a lawyer who take your money and anything else.

    Take what you have accepted, your mental health issues and go home.

22. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 6:48PM UTC

    You’re not wrong but this is less than supportive. This is a place where we help and support each other, not kick people while they’re down. Last paragraph is completely unnecessary.

23. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 9:12PM UTC

    Thank you for your response.. I agree that the previous comment was less than supportive.

    To be clear, I have not signed anything yet. I’m sending a request for additional severance - from 1 week per service year to 2 weeks per service year. I cited my mental health because I am sure that is what led to my position elimination.

24. Lorraine HerreraApril 9,2023 at 6:17PM UTC

    Please in that edit you are asking of the agreement, be sure they don’t include signing away you right to file an EEOC complaint. That is not legal anymore. Also that clause on its own is inhumane, is horrible to have a traumatic experience and not be able to talk about it.

    I hope everything goes great for you.

25. Lisa MarieApril 8,2023 at 10:40PM UTC

    Ms. G C Hesse, it seems you've misunderstood the details in the OP's request.

    1) There's nothing to be confused about - the OP *chose* to be **truthful and say YES** about her mental health disability. You know that question that is asked on job applications about any disability?

    If she had *lied* and then had a challenge on the job, or needed time off to handle said challenge - then she wouldn't be able to state what her need was for - and she would be labeled a *liar*

    2) the OP *did not* state that the severance was accepted. The company communicated what the severance package would be, so the OP iss asking out "hive mind" how to go about requesting/negotiating for more.

    3) Such attorney's generally do not get paid unless their client gets paid.

    4) the last line in your comment is *egregiously* rude!!! You're actually dismissing the OP and including her mental health issues in your dismissal!! ***You should be ashamed of yourself!!***

    In all situations, if you have nothing good to say, it is *always* best to not say anything at all.

26. Lorraine HerreraApril 9,2023 at 6:14PM UTC

    Revealing a medical condition is a personal decision and is illegal to use it against the employee. Your comment looks like you are justifying the employer’s illegal actions and victim blaming, that is disgusting.

    Many times an employee has to reveal medical conditions because they might need to request an accommodation. That is also a legally protected action.

    Is important to discuss it here, even if the OP already signed the separation agreement because the law recently changed. If the OP still has time to submit an EEOC claim, the separation agreement is not a valid document anymore to take their rights to file a complaint away.

    Your condescending answer is not necessary in this forum.

27. Cindy GrossApril 8,2023 at 3:40PM UTC

    Check out HRUprise, it was founded specially to give advice for folks in your situation.

    My experience (check out my podcast appearance about the harm of NDAs: https://befriendingdragons.com/schedule/) and what I remember from talking to lawyers after I was harassed.

    1) The severance package details are filed as a legal standard. They can't negotiate or they could be sued for not following the standard they laid out based on level, years of service, role, etc.

    2) Bias, harassment (based on age, gender, race, disability, etc.), and similar issues are covered by a separation agreement. They take the facts they know about to an insurance company and an actuary tells them how much to pay you. Technically it might be negotiable but I wasn't able to get them to budge on mine. Apparently 1-2 months payout is average for anyone who's not a VP+.

    3) if you sign a separation agreement you may give up rights. Recent rulings have weakened their ability to steal your voice (I didn't sign because at the time I would have been totally silenced) but read the no rehire clauses carefully. They may limit your ability to consult, work for subsidiaries and partners of the org, get referral letters from coworkers, etc.

    Good luck. Hang in there. You may find an exciting new career. I pivoted to coaching. I help women in tech who feel left behind navigate work culture with confidence. Https://befriendingdragons.com/

28. BethBApril 8,2023 at 8:19PM UTC

    This is a time when it makes sense to have an attorney handle it. They know how to handle the balancing act.

29. AnonymousApril 9,2023 at 10:47PM UTC

    I tried. None were interested in just sending a letter. A formal complaint with the EEOC will take a while and there’s no guarantee I will win. Most thought if a claim was submitted they would negotiate as they don’t want to go to court, but it’s a gamble that I can’t afford plus having this continue makes it hard to move on. No good answer here.

    Submitting the letter requesting additional severance. What I’m asking for is very reasonable given the circumstances. It’s what most companies typically give. ??

30. Bosslady720April 8,2023 at 9:10PM UTC

    I just want to say, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I was let go from an employer for the first time ever six months ago and I'm in your age range. The employer had no substantive reason to let me go. I got high performance reviews. So it hurt, and since it happened I have been having unusually high levels of anxiety and PTSD-like symptoms. I have been applying to many jobs but not getting responses. I have decided to be done with corporate America and invest in my own business. I need to do that to preserve my mental health. My best advice to you right now is to huddle up with people who love you right now. Tell them you're going through a rough time and need their support. Get out of the house every day and keep yourself busy with hobbies. Feel free to message me if you'd like to chat.

31. AnonymousApril 9,2023 at 10:39PM UTC

    I am sorry something similar happened to you. It’s horrible. I wake up each day still wondering how I got here. I loved my job and the company. My performance reviews were good. I received a larger than typical salary increase in January 2023. The only thing I can go back to is disclosing my mental health. Keep in mind that I worked for this man for 2 years so I thought I could trust him. Stupid on my part. I regretted it shortly after but what was done was done. I wanted to believe that being a good employee with a solid work ethic is enough and people and companies ‘do the right thing’,’ but that’s so naive in Corporate America.

    I owned my own business prior to this job and it isn’t really something I want to do again. I’m 5 years from retiring. I don’t know what the future looks like for me but am trying to stay positive. One day at a time.

32. Bosslady720April 8,2023 at 9:24PM UTC

    I just have to say in reading this post, and all of the responses, that corporate America is a cruel place to work. In my experience, 90% of [professional level] terminations are for non-substantive reasons, and based on someone's subjective opinion which triggers HR into action. It has become so pervasive in corporate America, the knee jerk reaction of HR to simply let people go. This is inhumane. It has escalated to the point that employees aren't even told they are doing (or did or said) something that may have been incorrect or offensive. So there's no chance of that employee correcting their way of doing or communicating something and therefore learning and growing from the experience. Bottom line, if a Director or above doesn't like the color of your blouse or your hair, or you made an innocent (safe for work) joke they didn't like, they will weaponize it against you to tear you down and they will ask HR to spring into action to get rid of you.

33. AnonymousApril 8,2023 at 10:20PM UTC

    In my experience the knee jerk reaction is rarely from HR but rather the manager who doesn’t want to coach, train, or simply deal with the employee. HR gets a bad rap but merely provides guidance of what can and should be legally done according to policy. I’ve met many managers that try and go around HR because they want the person gone.

34. AnonymousApril 9,2023 at 7:24PM UTC

    That is exactly what happened to me. I don’t think HR did enough due diligence to ensure my position was eliminated legitimately. I tried to let them know my concerns but it didn’t help.

35. AnonymousApril 9,2023 at 11:02PM UTC

    I’ll also suggest HR may have done the due diligence, told the manager it’s not legitimate, but then got overridden by others higher up in the company. I’ve seen this too many times. HR doesn’t tend to hold the power in a company. They’re simply the “middlemen” or enforcers.

    I am sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately, I’ve been there too.

36. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 11:39AM UTC

    Unfortunately HR works to protect the COMPANY not the EMPLOYEES

37. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 3:04PM UTC

    So true.
    I knew that going in but wanted to have some trail of letting HR know without submitting a formal complaint. Maybe I should have reported it. I’ve been questioning all my decisions leading up to the termination, but what is done is done. I have to look forward.

38. AnonymousApril 13,2023 at 2:14PM UTC

    It is always good to summarize verbal communications with HR in an email in the form of "notes" with an invitation to edit.
    This will give you a paper trail.

39. AnonymousApril 9,2023 at 11:08PM UTC

    I was successful. I was let go a day before my FMLA for a medical issue was supposed to begin. I was so sick at the time that I didn’t have it in me to hire a lawyer and try to fight them, but what I did do was write them a letter very respectfully outlining my time and performance with the company, that I was sick and they were aware and I was being let go before taking approved leave and it would leave me without much needed medical insurance. I requested additional weeks of severance to cover insurance basically in lieu of bringing a lawsuit against them. They granted me the additional severance I requested.

40. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 4:51AM UTC

    I am sending the letter tomorrow (Monday) morning. The agreement has to be signed by Wednesday. I’m not asking for a lot so I’m hoping they approve it.

41. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 1:24PM UTC

    if you are over 40 you have additional time to review. You may have already used up the time with talking to attorneys.

    Here is what I found online - I am not an attorney and I am not giving legal advice.

    How much time do I have to consider the agreement?

    Federal law requires that older employees aged 40 or over be given adequate time to consider the severance agreement. How much time is required will depend on the number of departing employees. Additionally, you are entitled to a short period of time after signing the agreement to revoke your waiver. The agreement can only go into effect once this revocation period has passed.

    If you are the only worker being terminated, then you must be given at least 21 days to consider the agreement to waive your ADEA rights.7

    If you are not the only worker who is being terminated, then you must be given at least 45 days to consider the waiver.8

    Any material changes to the severance package and the waiver agreement will restart the applicable period of time.9

    You can choose to sign the agreement before these time limits have expired. However, doing so must be done knowingly and voluntarily.10

    If you do sign the waiver, you are entitled to at least 7 days to revoke it. During this time, the severance agreement and waiver are not enforceable.11

42. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 3:00PM UTC

    I was the only one let go and given 21 days with the 7 days to revoke. It took time to talk to attorneys as I had to first speak with paralegals (gatekeepers). Then I had to go out of town to help my almost 87 year old mother who fell (luckily she is ok and it was just a broken hand and bruised pelvis). I sent the request this morning.

43. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 4:25PM UTC

    the law states you have 21 days to review this.

44. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 3:33AM UTC

    I'm sorry you're going through this. Someone close to me was terminated after two months on the job. They were able to get an extra month of severance after requesting it from HR. While they had an UNdisclosed mental health disorder that was likely the reason of their poor performance (PIP) and termination, they had previously disclosed that they had a history of severe concussions and TBI (traumatic brain injuries) to the company, which was likely related to their mental health challenges. They were offered two months severance. They ended up writing to request 3 months of severance in consideration of the fact that they had disclosed their history of TBI yet had not been offered any accommodations for it prior to being terminated. It was a very short email to HR that was structured like this: A) stated the reason why they were contacting the firm (in regards to the severance package offered for their termination), B) in light of the following 3-4 points--which were bullet points stating why they felt their termination was unjust/2 months severance wasn't enough. The final bullet stated they had disclosed their history of TBI to the company, C) requested 3 months severance given the above listed points.

    HR replied the following day with approval for 3 months severance to be granted.

    I think oftentimes companies prefer to avoid lawsuits so if there is concern that you will sue, they will concede. The email wording was strong enough to imply that legal action could be taken should they not grant 3 months severance, but not strong enough to be aggressive and explicitly state that they intended to take legal action should 3 months not be granted. If the company had rejected the request the first time, then you always have an option to double down as a follow-up email and explicitly state that this seems like something where legal action may be appropriate and ask them to reconsider, reiterating the reasons why you feel more severance is appropriate. If you request additional severance, be sure to avoid emotional words (including "unfair") and remain very factual in your email. Note it may also take time for them to reply if the request needs to go through several levels of approval. Good luck!

45. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 3:37AM UTC

    Also, DO NOT accept or sign the initial severance package they have offered until you request what you want and agree to the terms, otherwise you will lose all your negotiation power.

46. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 4:25PM UTC

    yes yes yes. agree.

47. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 6:27PM UTC

    That is my plan. The whole situation is really hard to reconcile. I loved my job and company. It is amazing that one bad leader can do this so easily.

48. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 4:24PM UTC

    do not do EEOC. I am age 62 and was targeted. Lost 10 mos with EEOC (it was a joke)--attorney fees and ended up with NOTHING because of what the corporation wanted me to sign. I'm also professionally blackballed. NO ONE WANTS TO HIRE SOMEONE WHO HAS REPORTED AN EMPLOYER TO EEOC. no one told me any of this. Make sure your attorney charges a reasonable fee per hour; Make sure you get a "Service Letter" with your severance (ask about this; it's the law in many states but often employer violate and don't give you this letter)...Add up what it will cost you to get employed again (licensure , travel, postage, loss of HSA/FSA...)I mean...get nitty bitty on this. Then accept your best offer and move onward. Make sure your retirement plan is protected in the best way possible. Good luck. Been there/done that in 2018. Move forward.

49. AnonymousApril 10,2023 at 6:23PM UTC

    I am very sorry this happened to you. It is so disappointing how some corporations treat employees. As far as the EEOC, I was not planning on filing an EEOC claim. As you stated, it is a lengthy process and I would have to pay an attorney. The attorneys I spoke to were split on submitting a claim, but all those that told me to do so said that my employer would most likely settle rather than go through the expense of fighting it. One felt that they would only give me extra severance if I filed the claim. She said the EEOC assigns it within 30 days and then tries to mediate rather than go to court. Personally, I don't think I can handle this hanging over me as I need to find a new job. I am trying to remain positive and hope they agree to extend my severance.

    Two questions. 1) What is a 'service letter?' If you are talking about the State DOL form that allows me to file unemployment, they gave me the completed form. If it is something else, please advise. 2) How would prospective companies know you filed an EEOC claim?

    Again, I am so sorry that happened to you. Being professionally blackballed is horrific. It is so hard to reconcile how people can do this. Yes, they represent a company, but they are humans. It is so cold and callous.

50. AnonymousAugust 15,2024 at 9:39PM UTC

    May I still file a charge with the EEOC if I believe that I have been discriminated against based on my age, race, sex, or disability, even if I signed a waiver releasing my employer from all claims?
    Yes. Although your severance agreement may use broad language to describe the claims that you are releasing (see Example 1), you can still file a charge with the EEOC if you believe you were discriminated against during employment or wrongfully terminated.[11] In addition, no agreement between you and your employer can limit your right to testify, assist, or participate in an investigation, hearing, or proceeding conducted by the EEOC under the ADEA, Title VII, the ADA, or the EPA. Any provision in a waiver that attempts to waive these rights is invalid and unenforceable.[12]