Looking for advice on navigating a challenging situation at work.

57 Comments

1. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 2:12PM UTC

   Let it be known that you can not respond to questions about the situation out of fear of retaliation.
   That you like your job and need to keep employment so you cannot risk the VPs retaliation and retribution.

2. Dr. Joy WigginsApril 24,2024 at 2:14PM UTC

   I would create a report with HR and talk to an employment lawyer. HR typically is there to protect the company but at least you have record of the complaint. You could talk to your boss and say, "How can we come to an understanding that my short term disability and illness will likely be resolved at the end of my pregnancy. This is a short term solution to work from home. I wonder if this conversation could be facilitated by HR"- something along those lines so that you have record of telling your boss, asking to talk work it out with HR and all the while be talking to an employment lawyer. I like the car service suggestion above. Show that you are working to resolve the problem but also this can be discriminatory behavior. Make sure to document everything. Do not just quit! You have a legal right to work without being discriminated against. Try to work it out as much as possible with your boss first, then HR and lawyer.

3. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 3:25PM UTC

   It was OP's boss being discriminated against...not the OP.

4. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 2:41PM UTC

   Why would she do that without asking you first? She should have discussed it with you before she talked to HR. If HR contacts you, only divulge what you know or have witnessed firsthand. Also, tell her that is what you intend to do. She probably has memos and emails to back up her claims, so I doubt you have much to add to the conversation unless you were part of the discussions about moving her responsibilities. Was it only tasks and responsibilities moved to the male employee or was she demoted? That may make a difference, and the move may not be as permanent as she suspects. They may be giving her time to ramp back up.

5. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 3:52PM UTC

   She may not have planned to give the OPs name when she filed but many people are surprised to find out it is incredibly difficult to win discrimination claims without witnesses , especially if there isn't much documentation (which there usually isn't). She may have hoped to handle it on her own with HR but in the process of filing HR will always ask for documentation and witnesses that can support the claim for the investigation. Based on my experiences, most likely she gave the name as a response to HR's questions and soon afterward thought to give the OP the heads up.

6. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 4:43PM UTC

   I'm not OP, but if or when questioned, my comments would be "I never had any intention of being involved and not asked to be in this process. I like my job, need my job and I ask you keep me out of the situation moving forward".

   I hate for the OPs supervisor dealing with the craziness, but why must OP now be dragged into this????

7. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 6:32PM UTC

   The OP indicated that some of the manager's duties were given away permanently, so there is likely a paper trail for that, the trick would be getting her hands on it. If it was reduced tasks/duties without an equal reduction in title or salary, she probably doesn't have much of a discrimination claim, which was why I asked the question.

8. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 3:17PM UTC

   Does your company have an anti-retaliation policy? Have you been reassured that by having this discussion, you will not be retaliated against? If I were you, I would absolutely provide the facts as I know them. Not my opinion, but the facts. And if after, you feel that you have been retaliated against, I would immediately report that.

   Side note: "working for the company's best interest" does not mean working for the "VPs best interest" - its in the best interest of the company to determine whether VP has taken inappropriate action and deal with accordingly (i.e. discipline, term, or whatever) in order to protect the company from possible future litigation.

9. Bonnie Ogle TaylorApril 24,2024 at 4:12PM UTC

   HR has a responsibility to protect you as well, so I would tell them, if it were me, that I need total anonymity and confidentiality specifically for those reasons you said. Also, if your toxic leader does retaliate and HR drops the ball, your best recourse and resource is the EEOC. They handle things like this. Matter-of-fact, a former director of the company that I worked got terminated by HR when I filed an EEOC complaint. He was investigated and corporate was involved. He got kicked to the curb and I was made whole in every way.

10. Anne KrookApril 24,2024 at 4:13PM UTC

    If you are asked, you cannot not answer without drawing attention to your non-answer. So if you are asked, be super factual: "this happened, and the result was this." Don't speculate on anyone's motives, even if you are asked "No, I have no idea why she/he did that"; "no, we didn't discuss that" etc. You are right to worry about retaliation even of you do and say nothing that could be construed as critical; the best you can do is to be as factual as possible with anyone in your organization you speak to about this. I would absolutely (quietly) start revising your resume and updating LinkedIn (without necessarily pushing the updates out to all your connections) in case Toxic Leader retaliates.

11. AnonymousApril 25,2024 at 12:28PM UTC

    adding on to this. Document everything! The conversation with your manager, if HR comes to you and the conversations there, then anything that happens afterward. That way you at least can try to protect yourself.

    Also, make sure your documentation is on a personal device/email rather than anything company related.

12. Kimberley Ferretti HammettApril 24,2024 at 4:17PM UTC

    Ultimately it your choice and you will have to weigh your values and the risk.

    In my personal opinion a route I would be comfortable taking would be to provide witness in the most objective way possible. This means confirming timelines of events and behaviors you saw but NOT speculating on anything like thoughts, feelings or intention. Answering if and when their interactions had a noticeable change. Answer if I've seen any similar pattern with other employees. Unless I've heard the VP say outright admit to discriminating, I would not provide that I believed they were. This would hold up my value of protecting and standing up for women while giving me some cover that, hey, I was just truthfully responding to an interrogation with facts (which would attempt to protect me from risk to my other value of providing for my family). HR doesn't really need your opinion anyway, they need evidence. An objective response is usually more beneficial to a case than one that is based in belief. And yes, HR's job is to protect the company but if they are good at their jobs they will know it is much better to resolve these cases internally than let it get to a full-on lawsuit. If they believe there's a strong enough case that your boss could bring externally, they would do what they can to keep it internal and protect everyone involved from retaliation.

    If you want to go this route, take a moment to reflect on the actions you've observed that make you believe this is true and maybe write down some notes so you can be prepared to answer factually without adding your opinion. Also keep notes of interactions throughout in case you do feel you experience retaliation. If you are in the U.S. that is illegal and you may want documentation ready.

13. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 4:53PM UTC

    I think you just state the facts and be honest. I would not take a side. The truth is that roles and responsibilities change and unless they took her out of her protected role completely she is not likely to be reinstated in the segments they moved over to someone else. She will ultimately have to make her own decision about her longevity and career there and will have to fight her own battles with that VP as she chooses. Don't reflect this upon your own situation, but don't decline facts vs opinion in the telling.

14. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 5:25PM UTC

    You're being used as a pawn and this will not turn out well for you. While really unfortunate for your boss, this is not your problem to solve. HR will of course tell you that this will all remain anonymous and there will be no retaliation. I wouldn't trust that one bit. You run the risk of being collateral damage. Please, recuse yourself when asked to make a statement. I'm sorry you're being put in this position.

15. RachelleApril 24,2024 at 8:00PM UTC

    My sister and I had this discussion this morning. Tell the simple truth. Write it up, and ask that it remains anonymous. Tell her about your situation; this is the only way you can help. As for the toxic leader, the two of you and the rest of the department of females and males, if they choose, bind together.

16. AnonymousApril 24,2024 at 11:42PM UTC

    You pass should’ve asked you first before giving your name to HR, regardless of what happened it is not right for her to do that because she put you in a passive situation you did not agree to, and that is a violation of your rights. if it were me, I will tell HR that I did not give my consent to be a witness, I will ask for complete anonymity name not be mentioned anywhere to anybody any future discussions. And I did not agree to be a witness. I’m not going to be. Leave yourself out of this. Nothing is going to come out of this. Do not spend your precious time and money another minute on this topic.. the most important thing is to protect yourself not impacted .

17. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 1:06AM UTC

    Most employee conduct guidelines say that you are required to come forward if you witness something.
    I don’t think rights were violated. When I reported conduct to HR they told me
    lwitnesses were required to Come forward due to policy.

18. AnonymousApril 25,2024 at 2:24PM UTC

    Normally the way these work is HR will interview you separately. You can answer these questions truthfully and in general it's not about your opinion, it's about actual situations you did or didn't witness. Unfortunately, most family related leave policies only guarantee that the person has an equivalent job to come back to, not the exact same job. If the responsibilities needed to be transferred to someone else while your manager was out to keep business operating smoothly, there were never any guarantees she was going to get those duties back when she returned. I think she's going to have a tough time proving she was discriminated against, since she was out on leave for an extended period and the work clearly needed to be covered.

19. Kathleen BoggsApril 26,2024 at 2:15AM UTC

    Unfortunately this is the truth. And the “equivalent job” can be interpreted very broadly.

20. Michelle GiurlaniApril 25,2024 at 3:01PM UTC

    You should be transparent. Tell HR that you are concerned that you will be retailiated and that he has x,y,z traits that are difficult. Being a toxic manager is not fireable - so I'd avoid using that term - and focus on what he does to make situations difficult, have specific examples for them. If you feel that he is not supportive of woman more than men, be truthful. Also, express that you're concerned to work for a leader who does this, and will do this to other woman or people who suffer a health issue. In this case, you'll have been truthful, supportive of females in the workplace, and HR will have record of your concern with retaliation. If he does against you, that will be something you can bring forward to HR. I also don't think only lawyers who knows the details should be commenting on if he can be prosecuted. Often times, the employer will just settle the case because they don't wanto spend the money/time in a court room. I personally would support the woman. If we don't support each other, and go quiet on managers (female or male) that are trouble, then we can't expect anything to ever change.

21. AnonymousApril 25,2024 at 7:53PM UTC

    Don't be a coward. Women NEED to back each other up. What if this toxic leader decided you're the next one who needs to go, and another co-worker decides to throw you under the bus to save their own job? Do what you (obviously) know is right.

22. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 1:02AM UTC

    Or you say nothing and the VP assumes that you did anyway?

    I went thru this and my witness didn’t want to speak up for reasons like you mentioned. On the one hand, I understood the financial aspect, on the other hand, when you see something wrong I believe that you are obligated to act. It is the foundation of creating an inclusive environment for all. Staying quiet is what allows this behavior to continue. That goes for harassment, assault and discrimination.

23. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 1:09AM UTC

    Meet with HR then send a summary email
    stating what you said to HR. First- you can’t guarantee that HR will take complete notes. And, If anything were to happen to you after that— (ex VP
    takes action against you) there is clear evidence of retaliation which is illegal as reporting VPs behavior is a “protected act.” Put everything in writing always and bcc your personal email. This was advice I received from my lawyer!!

24. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 1:16AM UTC

    I don’t understand your logic OP.
    No judgment. I just have a diverse opinion. Maybe that’s why you came here, for such opinions?

    Either way you suffer a consequence. You suffer if you say nothing. This culture clearly sucks. This VP
    might already have you on their target list for any number of reasons unknown to you. You might suffer if you say something. But, this is a legally protected activity in the USA. Google “8
    protected classes” and “retaliation in the workplace.”

    This is a cost/benefit analysis. You win more by speaking up. You win for her; for you and, for all folks that suffer such similar incidents.

25. Kathleen BoggsApril 26,2024 at 2:21AM UTC

    For what it’s is worth, I did not report bullying for many reasons similar to those you state here. And then my bully succeeded in getting me demoted. I have so much regret that I did not speak up earlier and did not document things as they were happening - including a discussion HR had with me before this that turned out to be to gather information to be used against me rather than the stated purpose of helping me.

    Bullies win because people are afraid to speak up about their behavior. I hope you will consider helping your boss by participating in an interview if requested. But I also recommend documenting any interactions with HR on this topic.

26. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 12:13PM UTC

    I was discriminated against during pregnancy and as a new mom, and years later I still feel the pain and distress. I ended up losing my job due to a 'layoff,' and we lost our income and our health insurance. A few years later, a coworker told me she kept quiet due to fear. She could have helped me. Please do the right thing.

27. Colleen HansonApril 26,2024 at 1:46PM UTC

    I agree! I, too, was discriminated against and treated miserably due to my age and several of my co-workers not only recognized it but commented on it constantly! When my mental health started to decline because of the on-going stress, bullying, constant disparaging remarks, etc. I finally decided to file a claim with the EEOC (as recommended by several co-workers). All of these co-workers who constantly commented on how poorly I was being treated, how clearly discriminatory the behavior towards me was and encouraged me to contact the EEOC went radio silent when contacted by the EEOC for their take on the situation because they feared retaliation. I have never felt so let down in my life. My mental health tanked even more and I ended up in therapy. I trusted NO ONE at work anymore and soon after the EEOC interview and betrayal by my co-workers I just walked out one day and never went back.

    I hope and pray that the poster will do the right thing and support her boss if she feels there has been discriminatory behavior. Integrity is far more important than the "what if's". Some day the poster could be in that same situation, she needs to think about that and how she would feel if no one supported her.

28. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 12:40PM UTC

    You can only state and support the facts. Did parts of their job move to another worker. You can't speak to the why, if it was because she's a woman, gave birth, and it's back like it's 1950. Responsiblities can move to other leaders for VARIOUS reasons. You can't speak to MOST of the why's unless you got an email or can verify a conversation with witnesses that 'we're taking away this part of their role because they birthed' or 'because he's a man and she's a woman'. So caution, you inserting your own assumptions is not facts. So, with that being said, you can say yes, Rockstar Ed now gets to do this and it was formally under her. If asked why do you think they did that, you really and truly should not be inserting your thoughts or anything UNLESS you have verifiable proof. This may help you feel better in any role in the investigation. HR, yes, looks at risks that humans put the company in and try to mitigate law suits, etc. They are fact finders, and recommenders, often not the decision makers, but the messenger. Be matter of fact and that's it.

29. Beverly MolnarApril 26,2024 at 12:45PM UTC

    If HR contacts you, just answer their questions truthfully (I.e. factually) and neutrally. No need to insert your opinions as to whether or not she was discriminated against. That’s all anyone can expect of you and should not give anyone reason to retaliate. And HR is ethically bound to keep your identity confidential so there’s no reason the VP should know who gave them any information.

30. Beth Whight MoralesApril 26,2024 at 1:01PM UTC

    You should speak up.

    But, before you do, contact the EEOC and see what sort of protections and rights you have as a witness. It is possible you may experience retaliation, whether you say anything or not, and they may be able to represent you on your behalf. You aren’t in this alone, there are a lot of resources out there to help both victims, and those who support them through this process.

    I would also suggest documenting how the VP is treating you right now, and how the VP treats you after the situation is brought to light. Being able to prove retaliation is much different than just saying it’s going on.

31. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 1:06PM UTC

    Since you feel strongly that your boss is being discriminated against, you'll need to stand in solitary. Whether or not you two will be let go is anyones guess. You can seek legal counsel if that happens.

32. Cynthia TrivellaApril 26,2024 at 1:07PM UTC

    It sounds like you have already answered your concern. You are correct in saying that HR works for the company’s best interest.

    Your supervisor is being targeted by this “toxic VP,” and she is in a tough position. I feel for her and it’s so disheartening when I read these horrible stories. She has a tough and long road ahead and it will be very difficult for her to win in this situation. I don’t say this to be mean or pessimistic; I say this because I’ve seen this happen to others who jumped through fire hoops and still didn’t win their case.

    Where you’re concerned it would serve you best to stay out of it. I agree with you and can see your involvement here not ending well for you. Companies can make life hell for people, even in subtle ways, like the promotion you deserve going to someone else for reasons unknown or low pay raises that they can explain away.

    My suggestion is to explain to your boss that you can’t get involved because you need your job, but you do understand the tough situation she’s in. She may need a friend during this time and she may feel isolated so depending on your relationship with her, she may lean into you for emotional support if you are open to that.

    I wish you both the best.

33. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 6:57PM UTC

    Start documenting EVERYTHING. And copy to your personal files. You should act as a witness, and then if the company retaliates you would have a very clear retaliation claim. But it only works if you have clear documentation. Can you (or do you already have) get copies or your past performance reviews? Print & take them home (or scan them to your personal email), ditto for any performance related emails from the VP and whoever covered for your boss while she was out. Really, every bit of documentation is worthwhile. And be prepared, get your resume ready, and really, maybe start looking for another job. Why would you want to work with this guy or at a company that allows his behavior?

34. AnonymousApril 26,2024 at 10:39PM UTC

    Just a question on seeking legal assistance, I saw so may replies not just on this thread about seeking legal assistance, the only time I did, I had to pay 150-300 an hour to explain to a lawyer what happened, and sign a contract to pay traditional thousands if I proceed with the case, I already spent over a $1000 just to get a legal to understand my case, let alone get them really involved.

    This is insane and I doubt who has any such money to "seek legal assistance", could someone has knowledge advice on where and how to "seek legal assistance" that can even be affordable? Thank you.

35. AnonymousApril 27,2024 at 4:27PM UTC

    Some organizations offer pro bono legal support (free legal services, usually with exception of official govt fees). See if a woman's or worker's rights nonprofit might take you on. See if your employment contract prevents you from initiating a lawsuit. Look for an arbitration or mediation clause as an option.

36. Meghan RoadApril 27,2024 at 10:12PM UTC

    Better to pay some money than not have a job at all

37. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 9:03PM UTC

    I use a legal subscription service. It’s $50 a

    month. Google it. I dont want the post to be flagged for advertisement.

38. Brenda MorrisApril 27,2024 at 12:13PM UTC

    Do the right thing because if he’s doing that to her eventually it will filter down to every woman in the office.

39. AnonymousApril 27,2024 at 2:22PM UTC

    Your manager should, if she hasn’t already, get a really good employment attorney.
    She should document everything. You should as well. You may end up being collateral damage since you report to her. Your company will lose its case as it is clearly discriminatory behavior, whether they knew it or not.

40. KathrynApril 27,2024 at 4:14PM UTC

    The manager needs a lawyer. This is clear discrimination. You really do not have to be involved. I am in HR and I would recommend suspending VP and doing a thorough investigation, but that is me. She needs the lawyer

41. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 9:23PM UTC

    How do you know there is discrimination? I do not see any discrimination at all. If I went on leave came back part of my responsibilities was moved to other people. I will take it as a very natural consequence of me being absent for period of time. Things have involved progress changed. Being a good employee, I will catch up on my work first instead of finding a discrimination suit, it sounds very excessive and needy and unprofessional.

42. AnonymousApril 28,2024 at 4:43AM UTC

    I have news for you that you may be unaware of, if you live in the USA, she can file a discrimination complaint with the EEOC and then you legally won't have a choice in the matter.

    I know this because I filed a discrimination complaint after being wrongfully terminated due to disability and I had to provide a list of every employee there that either knew what was going on and looked the other way, or were participating in the discrimination against me for being disabled, including management and HR!

    If an employer retaliates against anyone that has talked to the EEOC about a claim that has been filed against an employer, that employer can get in huge trouble with the legal system. I've actually seen people lose their business and/or get a huge fine because the employer decided to take retaliatory actions against the employee that brought the action and against the employees that talked to representatives of the EEOC about the claim.

43. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 1:10AM UTC

    First off, the investigation will ask you questions. Don't lie, answer with facts.

    Secondly, whether you like it or not, if the VP is toxic as you say. Just being interviewed, no matter the outcome you will face retaliation. Start your documentation now. Make it clear in your interview that you are afraid of retaliation. You better lay your groundwork now so you will have some protection and leverage.

44. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 8:57PM UTC

    Be the change that you wish to see. First thing, this isn’t a toxic leader this is a leader who is discriminating. If you want to find yourself in a culture of accountability than this is the risk you take. I spoke out for 2 women who filed complains at different times, different workplaces. One of the employers fired me 4Months later. I know my report to HR was the reason. I sent a strongly worded letter from a lawyer And I received a confidential severance.

    Would I do it again? YES.

    Why? Discrimination lives in the shadows. Silence by witnesses is how it perpetuates. Today she needs support. Tomorrow it will be you.

    My advice: don’t hide behind your finances. Learn how to protect yourself and others.

    We need to stop tolerating this behavior from our leaders and we do that by learning what’s legal
    and what isn’t.

45. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 9:19PM UTC

    There is no discrimination here, this person is on leave. If I were her manager, I would have to give her responsibility to other people to ensure the work can continue. There is no discrimination. Absolutely no discrimination here.

46. AnonymousApril 29,2024 at 9:06PM UTC

    This sounds like the statement of someone who has never been in this situation and has not been witness to anyone else in this situation. In that case, I’m not sure how helpful this advice is.

47. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 11:52AM UTC

    Reducing responsibilities IS retaliation. Please consider consulting google on US laws.

48. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 9:16PM UTC

    Reducing responsibility is NOT discrimination, you’re a job responsibility is not defined by the law.

49. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 11:54AM UTC

    Saying nothing and getting fired anyway is a better alternative? Please consider the whole picture. If they can retaliate against the prior manager what is preventing them from being accountable to the OP?

50. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 11:58AM UTC

    Thank you. I paid my own bills. I achieved this by getting smart about the laws and learning how to protect myself. It’s not some magical secret. Just READ the laws.

51. AnonymousApril 30,2024 at 12:03PM UTC

    Folks commenting on the financial aspect are just too lazy to bother to learn how to protect themselves. We don’t advance society and create equitable workplaces by sitting on our hands and making excuses. Employers are not going to just give us an equitable place to work. It is incumbent upon each of us to learn how the law works. What is illegal and what isn’t. Then, learn to document in the proper channels. Read up and then decide. Does it takeeffort? Sure. The good news is, its all on the internet available for You to find. The employer is counting on you to be too overwhelmed to even try.

52. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 1:34AM UTC

    rude.

53. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 6:44PM UTC

    You’re unpleasant. No doubt there.

54. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 9:13PM UTC

    If she was on leave (even if she is a male) it is right for her manager to move her responsibility to other people to ensure no disruption to work why is this discrimination? I manage teams and this sounds a very natural arrangement to me regardless is she or he I don’t see any discrimination here.

55. AnonymousMay 2,2024 at 9:15PM UTC

    Fully agree I do not see any discrimination in this situation at all

56. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 6:27PM UTC

    What does that even mean? Is that supposed to be clever?

57. AnonymousMay 3,2024 at 6:27PM UTC

    Indeed, I am a busy person.