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Would you ever talk to HR about this?

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Would you ever talk to HR about this?

I’m sitting in a work meeting listening to promotion announcements for people I work with and I honestly could cry. Several of the people being promoted stated after me.

The reason I find this upsetting is that a few months ago, my boss basically told me he wouldn’t promote me (despite getting positive feedback and a $20k raise) and that he would instead hire a new person above me.

I don’t this think this “glass ceiling” has to do with my performance, and more with my boss being an older man who has never managed anyone before and me being a younger (though not young) woman, who also looks younger than I am ( a great problem to have in some cases, but not in others). Many of the other managers in my company are younger and more progressive.

my question is: would you ever broach a concern like this (that’s there’s basically no promotion available to me here, so it seems) with HR?

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  1. Anonymous

    Oy! Promotion cycle convos are always tricky to navigate because it depends on a few factors.

    1) What does your company policy say about promotion cycles within your org? I'd start here first. Depending what this says, you can use this as leverage.

    2) Have you been documenting your wins? You need to be able to articulate top-to-bottom as to why you believe you are deserving of a promotion. And with this documentation, does it tell a strong enough case that YOU SHOULD be eligible for promotion? This documentation is key and should help support your case.

    3) I think you need to have another convo with your manager to get explicitly clear about what it takes to get promoted. Y'all have spoke on it a few months so maybe something changed. I recommend having items 1 and 2 in order before you meet about item 3.

    While we all know promotions are never guaranteed, just continue to focus YOU. Do not let your manager or other promotions get in your head about it (I know it is easier said then done because I've been there). If anything, document exactly what was said to you (time/date, etc).

    Once you have familiarized yourself with the company's policy around promotions, and you have your promotion elevator pitch on why you believe you should be promoted, then meet with your manager again presenting everything you have.

    Depending on their response, if they say "you aren't ready" etc, find out why and what it would take? (Is it more training? Is it taking on a more visible project, etc?)

    Document what happened in this meeting and depending on that outcome, I would then look into escalating the matter further or, it could be a sign that you might want to start looking elsewhere, including transferring out of that team if there are no growth opportunities for you there.

    Keep your head up. You've got this --- sometimes, we have to be our own cheerleader first. I hope you get the clarity you need to make an informed decision on whether or not you have growth path in your company. Good luck to you!

  2. Kat

    I think your boss likes you where you are, so he doesn't want to promote you. Whether it's because he'd lose control over you, doesn't want to train a replacement, or doesn't want you winding up above him in the company hierarchy, it's still wrong. Hard to say if it's just sexism involved, though that's probably the root of the issue. I'm not sure HR would be of much use here, especially if the people promoted with less seniority are all male. It might be a company wide problem that they won't address.

    But your boss' issues aren't your problem. Either he follows through on promoting you if you meet the criteria or you need to move on. If he's made it clear he'll never promote you, fine. Don't let him sabotage your career. Switch to another department with a more progressive manager or look for other opportunities outside if needed. You sound like a solid performer stuck with an unappreciative boss. I don't think it will be too hard to find something better, even if it takes a while to get to the level you deserve.

  3. Soph

    I think you should speak to HR from the perspective of getting you and your manager on the same page as far as criteria for a promotion: what, specific, objective criteria aligns with the business' goals and would make you a candidate for promotion? HR *should* be willing to mediate that conversation. From there, you can get a clear roadmap and you don't have to wonder or guess anyone's thoughts. You're either going to end up getting the blueprint for promotion or the blueprint to move elsewhere in the company or to another company, and you'll have specific, quantifiable datapoints to market your background.

  4. Anonymous

    I would have another very pointed conversation with your boss and takes notes afterwards. Then go to someone. It could be another manager, another higher ranking leader or HR. If there is an artificial roadblock in front of you I would advise that you make it known to as many folks with authority as possible.

  5. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    When your boss said he wouldn't promote you, did you ask him why?

    Unless you're working in a union environment, seniority doesn't typically come into play when promotions are being considered (who started when).

    Do you know what your career goals are? Does your boss know what your career goals are? I would consider having a conversation with your boss about what a career path under him might look like going forward.

    Is he not interested in promoting you because of a particular skill set you're lacking? If so, have him clearly define it and then ask for stretch assignments to gain that skillset.

    If he's not ever going to be intested in promoting you, it's best you find that out sooner rather than later.

    Are there other parts of the organization you move into? Do you have any internal network that you could tap into?

    What is HR like in your company? In some companies, getting them involved could be the right move but in some companies it could be a career death sentence.

    I'd also recommend you stop focusing on your gender and looks as a reason you may or may not be receiving a promotion and start focusing at your skills. Not saying those may not be a factor with your particular manager, but make it about your skills.

  6. Anonymous

    It’s hard to stop “focusing on” gender when sexism in the workplace is a pervasive problem. Good grief.

  7. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition Specialist

    I literally said "Not saying those may not be a factor with your particular manager"

    The OP mentioned her tenure with the company, her gender and her age - not once did she say she was well qualified for the position she didn't receive.

  8. Anonymous

    Concur with this

  9. Joann S. Lublin

    In addition to following other commentators' advice, I strongly encourage you to reach out via social media to folk who have left this company after working for the same boss. Did they also have trouble getting promoted? Did they ever get a straight answer from HR as to why? You also might have informal coffees with current colleagues who have recently been promoted to learn more about their upward path. Good luck and let us know how things go for you. You might also glean lessons about winning promotions from some of the 52 high-level female executives I interviewed for my book "Earning It: Hard-Won Lessons from Trailblazing Women at the Top of the Business World."

  10. Anonymous

    He’s never managed anyone else so this isn’t information that I could obtain, unfortunately. My role didn’t exist before I started either.

  11. Joann S. Lublin

    That is a dilemma! But you still could reach out to former staffers who may have been his colleague to get some sense of how he operates.

  12. Lisa Marie

    Reaching out to other people is only going to complicate the situation, is sanity & time-wasting, and will most likely end up being emotionally-draining.

    The OP is better off taking a combination or one of three approaches:
    - speaking directly to her boss {again}
    - being content with what she has (she could be unemployed)
    - or start looking for another job and leave on her own terms

    ** Everything doesn't have to be made into a battle or a war. **

    There's always casualtiesin battles - and history proves 99.98% of the time employees fare worse than companies

  13. Anonymous

    Learn the why he said he wouldn't promote you , if you didn't ask then, then follow up with what do you have to do to be promoted to learn what you need to work at to get one. Ask more questions first before running to HR. they will want to know the efforts, or lack there of, from that conversation with your leader. This will be a great starting point.

  14. Anonymous

    Yes, preemptive is best.

  15. CMT

    I agree we need to know exactly the reason for his thought process as to why he would not promote you

  16. Anonymous

    Did you ask your boss for what specifically you need to accomplish to get promoted? If yes and he says, "Nothing, you will never be promoted," then you have something to go to either his manager or HR with.

  17. Anonymous

    Exactly. Ask for the criteria. If he asks why you’re asking, say you were inspired by the recent promotions of your colleagues.

  18. Lisa Marie

    Differing view here...

    You stated you received positive feedback and a #20,000 raise

    Why do you want a promotion? For status? For the title? For Additional responsibility?

    Do those promotions come with $40,000 to 60,000 more pay?

  19. Elise Pilkington

    I totally agree with this. A job won't love you or even respect you much of the time. All it can do for you is $$. I'll take $20K over ego strokes any time.

  20. Anonymous

    Respectfully, some ppl r satisfied doing their jobs and going home. Some ppl are completely satisfied being a greeter, receptionist, etc. No shade at all to these roles btw. However professional growth and ambition is the goal for others. Money isn't everything and is not the same.

    With that being said OP should really consider what matters most to her and act accordingly.

  21. Anonymous

    Like it or not, rank and titles are important in CorpAmerica and she has every right to ask why a promotion would not be happening for her. If she were a man would the same thing be happening?

  22. Lisa Marie

    Agreed that title/status/rank is important in *some* industries (progression on resumes), however those do not always equate to what's really important... the $$$ on the paycheck.

    Based on details presented gender has nothing to do with it... the OP didn't mention the genders of the staff being promoted - so one should not *add* other layers to the story based on their own views.

    Myself and others would do jobs even titled "roach and hot dog janitor" if it pays the $$ needed to be comfortable... this is proven by people who stay in one job for 10, 15, 20 years doing the same job

  23. Elise Pilkington

    That's not likely to do any good. What I would do (and have done) is arrange to have a new manager. Whether by posting for other jobs, or developing relationships with other managers that I'd prefer to work for.

  24. Anonymous

    I'm not against this at all, but u have to factor in that sometimes ppl want u where ur at. For example, your so good at ur job they'd need to hire 2 to replace u (it's not that u don't qualify for mgmt) or u make ur managers life easy or u make them look good. Either of these examples or a plethora of others will make a lateral or internal move impossible.

  25. Anonymous

    I found myself in this position with my last company. They overlooked me several times, yet I was responsible for training several of my managers (side eye). It's important to note the managers I trained came from other areas of the organization and definitely had more tenure or specialized training than I. At the same time my organization continued to throw money at me (approx. the same as what OP stated above). I was always vocal about my personal career goals though and constantly received positive feedback when I inquired.

    I purposely resigned myself to the status I was at due to other factors (the money, flexibility, etc.) and other self-actualization needs in Maslow's hierarchy were being met. I settled into doing what was required and nothing more.
    However, the last manager assignment they passed me over for one of the newest peers (same level) on my team that I had trained. This is where I drew the line. I could no longer allow them to disrespect me so flagrantly.
    I left. That's the only answer sometimes. I attended a seminar, per an invite from this same organization. One of the key speakers noted that the professional ladder is not straight up and down. Sometimes you need to switch ladders to climb to the next rung. In some cases, you'll be able to return to the original ladder at a later time and at an elevated position because of the switch up.
    In conclusion - be selfish and look out for YOU.
    Go to HR if you want to, as you would not be out of line (assuming you handle it professionally), but they will only lead you on. I speak from experience.
    Wish you the best!

  26. Lisa Marie

    Exactly.

    If all else holds true to Maslow's theory, is the title/status really worth shaking things up?

    Sometimes "leaving to grow" is best - to avoid the emotional trauma/toxicity that usually results from going to HR.

  27. Anonymous

    Go to HR if you want to, as you would not be out of line (assuming you handle it professionally), but they will only lead you on.

    - There! You nailed it!

  28. LORI-ANN BURLINGAME

    It could be that you are doing such a great job in your current role that your manager does not want to let you go. You have the experience to get the job done. A younger person needs to be trained and that takes time.

  29. Rosa Goes

    You need to talk to a recruiter, not HR. Use the time to start looking for other opportunities.

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