I have been a leader for my employer for over 20 years.

17 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 7,2024 at 12:27PM UTC

   Wait, have you been coaching her from the beginning? Have you been discussing how she can improve her leadership skillset and executive presence? I couldn't catch from what you wrote above if you have been doing that from the beginning or not. It sounds like you have just been promoting her because she's a good worker and getting an MBA and that you hoped the MBA would fill in the cracks? If so the before the PIP, have some monthly check-ins and coaching sessions with her. I'm sure she would be open to suggestions and coaching.

2. AnonymousOctober 7,2024 at 12:56PM UTC

   Agreeing that if you haven't had coaching sessions with her, that would likely be beneficial. Could be Peter Principle here... maybe she is terrific in another position?

   1. if you haven't coached for leadership, do that first. Help her to choose her goals for reviews this month, weekly staff meetings, active listening sessions with her staff.. etc. And commit to meeting with her to review and celebrate her progress.
   2. does she need another mentor? Have you guys run your course? Do you know of someone who's got the leadership and mentoring chops?
   3. are her skills better aligned in another department or position (Peter Principle)? Had an employee that I was told to fire - but they were just in the wrong place. Requested a move for them based on the skills and where the joy was, and they suddenly excelled again. Not a promotion, a lateral move.

   Just some ideas - but sounds like you're worn out, too... I'd look for a mentor for myself, too, if I were in this position.

3. AnonymousOctober 7,2024 at 2:53PM UTC

   My company just did the same thing with an employee who was very good individually but not progressing well in a manager role despite a year of coaching. We didn't want to lose him and I had a role open on my team that he was a great fit for so he did a lateral move and it's worked out well so far.

4. GirlBossanova934974October 7,2024 at 1:14PM UTC

   Other than tossing around a bunch of "corporate speak" to describe your direct report, what have you actually done to help with this direct report's supervisory skillsets? All MBAs are not created equal. They are not designed necessarily to teach or foster leadership skills. In specific terms, where is the subordinate coming up short? Have YOU set the proper goals and provided accurate and timely feedback to help achieve these goals? How would you define "leadership skills"? I have a bad feeling that your direct report probably does not share that definition.

5. AnonymousOctober 7,2024 at 3:16PM UTC

   What specific management training has she been provided over the past 9 years? You say you hoped her MBA would improve certain skills, but did you ever lay out her need to grow in the areas you’ve identified? Have *you* clearly set expectations for her?

   If not, promoting someone to management assuming they will just figure it out and then coming up with a PIP not to genuinely foster improvement but to create a justification for firing her is the wrong way to approach this.

6. Cindy GloverOctober 7,2024 at 8:14PM UTC

   I would keep trying - I think leadership comes with on the job experience…

7. AnonymousOctober 8,2024 at 4:43PM UTC

   Thank you all for your constructive feedback.

8. Alexis GladstoneOctober 9,2024 at 1:16PM UTC

   Hi. This has certainly been going on awhile! I would love to know what conversations and expectations you have laid out for her and what tools and support you've provided to help her achieve them. Also, you way that she has stagnated with any growth she's exhibited. Again, what conversations and support has been provided to get her to the next level?

   As for her MBA studies, these programs are usually not designed to provide people with tactical leadership skills. They play on the strategic and analytical side of things. She may have been exposed to concepts and models (EQ, leadership styles) but it usually doesn't go beyond that.

   If you'd like to talk about how you might approach this, I'm happy to chat, as my entire world is leadership development. Just reach out here or on LI.

9. AnonymousOctober 9,2024 at 3:53PM UTC

   Some people just reach their own limits in the role that they are in. Many of them are happy to reach that level and stay there. Not everyone wants to be CEO someday. But you can Continue to ask her if she wants guidance and advice from you. Ask her if she wants to move into a different role or even change careers. If she’s getting her mba soon , she may want to move on from this company anyway. She’s obviously got a good resume already.

   Finally, make sure you are not projecting yourself onto her. Just a thought.

10. AnonymousOctober 10,2024 at 12:36PM UTC

    “Supervisor role” to “manager” and a “very hard worker” while “nearly finished with her MBA” then, your obvious disappointment with her job performance to the point of a PIP and termination makes me think she’s exhausted, stressed, and burnt out. How does your company support a struggling top perfomer? What will YOUR role be within her success story? Please look beyond this blip in your careers and work toward her potential.

11. Julie Chatman, MBA, CISMOctober 10,2024 at 12:46PM UTC

    Is it possible that your hopes for her have exceeded her hopes for herself?

    Consider having a candid conversation with her and ask her what her aspirations are.

12. AnonymousOctober 10,2024 at 1:36PM UTC

    such an excellent answer. The original poster said "technically smart and works very hard". These are wonderful qualities. Plus, the employee is earning an MBA. So I'm thinking a few things: the employee is overwhelmed (juggling work/MBA program and personal responsibilities) OR the employee is great, but not suited for management. I can tell you from personal experience that I am smart, 4.0 student, and work hard- but I am NOT management material either (and my heart is not into it). To be fair to this excellent employee, I would not put her on PIP. I second the idea of having a private and supportive meeting with her, be frank but kind- and see how she/he is feeling. You already said she's a hard worker (rare in this age). Not everyone wants to be a manager, although it can be a surprise when you find yourself miserable.

13. Maggie StoneOctober 10,2024 at 4:27PM UTC

    Wow, pip to fire after a decade? I kind of echo what others are saying. Has she been given indications that there are areas of improvement before this? I am assuming you were happy with her at one time or she wouldn’t have gotten promoted.

14. AnonymousOctober 11,2024 at 1:00PM UTC

    Sounds like at some point her growth became more about you than her. Like the payoff of your support is that she does what you want. Maybe the pressure of school and managing your expectations is burning her out. You need to give her time to finish school and rest a little before you start pushing her. And maybe ask her what she’d like to do with her life and how you can support it rather than being a bit of a stage mom.

15. Mariana MariniOctober 11,2024 at 2:55PM UTC

    Unfortunately, some people just aren’t made for leadership. You seem to have given her lots of opportunities to demonstrate what she’s made for and have received plenty of validation that it is not working.

    Have you had an honest conversation and provided frequent feedback throughout this journey, or did you just give opportunities and hoped for the best?

    If you did give frequent feedback and would like to retain the person, another option is making her an SME as an individual contributor, after you have a final documented conversation that clearly indicates that after all of the coaching provided, she is not adding value as a leader.

16. Milissa JacobsOctober 11,2024 at 10:31PM UTC

    Have you told her this? Is there something going on with her personal life that would be a major distraction, like a serious illness in a family member? Does she like her job? Those are the fastest questions to see what is going on.

17. AnonymousOctober 14,2024 at 10:19AM UTC

    Did she indicate she wanted to be a leader when you promoted her to supervisor? How did she do in the supervisor role?

    You have managers and you have leaders. A degree doesn't make someone a leader. Was she promoted simply based on her education or was she promoted because she expressed interest or because of her tenure?

    My company has hired because of education over leadership and it has been an absolute disaster. My previous supervisor before I was put into the role was one of those hires. Nearly 3 years later and I am still cleaning up messes she made. I am not negating the importance of education but sometimes people need to know how a department works more than rules and regulations.

    Good luck. She is obviously a good employee. Don't let her go because she isn't the employee you thought she would become.