I'd love your perspective.

12 Comments

1. Ruth RobbinsNovember 20,2024 at 2:11PM UTC

   What's so awful about having the PM there? You all might learn something and that individual from you strong team

   members. Good for you that you initiated this monthly meeting, such a great idea. But why the secrecy? Communication is communication.

2. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 3:14PM UTC

   Ruth, there's no secrecy. The call is actually recorded and publicly available for viewing using the company's AI tool.

   The problem is that we were trying to create a safe space but now it's no longer safe because it's no longer ours.

3. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 2:48PM UTC

   I would a just keep your meetings and don’t invite the pm your allowed to create your own meetings

4. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 3:09PM UTC

   That's the brilliance of this manager. She went for the gentlest of us (least likely to fight back) and bullied her into adding the PM. It's already done.

5. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 3:04PM UTC

   Sounds like you and some team members are trying to adapt and make the best of things. This is commendable. Also sounds like some management wants things done their way- sounds typical. There is a disfunction in the environment. Typically, the management wins. Some things to keep in mind: If it's impacting your health and wellbeing, a change is needed (whether you can ask for it, demand it, seek real benefits and accommodations-- that's up to you. Some environments will push you out rather than change).

   What I don't hear is real push back (not advocating for it per se- you know the environment better). If your work life isn't improving even with teamwork and problem solving, it's time to reevaluate your place there. I'd suggest reviewing all the benefits and accommodations available to you and request them (time off, WFH/hybrid work to get some space), tuition reimbursement, etc. Focus on YOU, not this job or this manager or twisting yourself in knots for them. Quiet quit a bit if you need. Then, decide if you want to push back- as a team . Your micromanaging team lead/boss only listens to one thing (what they want/ power). Fair warning, they may not listen to it from managed up from you. Also, if the team pushes against the manager, it's possible certain team members may fold because they need work. So, understand your needs. I recommend looking for a new job.

   If the manager is not your boss, you need to determine how you'll work together. I can understand why the PM could be of use. Strike your own relationship with the PM and make sure they don't call the shots (and no complaining on the call/meeting when PM is there- as you're uncertain of alliances at present).

   If you don't want to leave, I'd ask yourself how much more do you want to tolerate? There's no harm in looking for a new job. Good luck!

6. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 3:08PM UTC

   It's not necessarily a matter of not wanting to leave But rather that this isn't a great time to walk away without a backup plan.

   Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with everything you said and it's making me evaluate the company differently.

7. AnonymousNovember 21,2024 at 8:17PM UTC

   FWIW, I recommend the series "Designing Your Life" or "Designing your Work Life" books by Burnett & Evans- real life advice and case studies and considerations for you to pivot. People don't quit jobs or companies. They quit managers/people. Good luck!

8. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 3:10PM UTC

   Oh, no. I barely trust me with my own money haha in this case, CRO refers to conversion rate optimization (how to make people spend more when they come to the site).

9. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 3:28PM UTC

   Oh, that's not a horrible idea. Changing the time to time that's not convenient for them but is for everyone else is a little sneaky and I love it.

10. AnonymousNovember 20,2024 at 5:50PM UTC

    I think what you created was wonderful. It says a lot about the team, wanting to work together, and not justifying a horrid manager who can't control their behavior towards you all. Instead, create a happy hour once a week meeting that is not work related at all. Then continue with your TEAMs meeting with the PM, to only discuss work related items. That will satisfy the boss so to speak and get her off your back. I too have witnessed what stress does to those in management roles. They are emotional vampires who try to take any happy or joy from others. It's simply a projection of their problems, not yours. They will not or cannot celebrate with or for others, they can't say anything nice or they seem distracted during meetings and are on their cell phone the whole time. It's terrible management is what it is. And the person over this person should be notified and asked to monitor it. They are the ones bringing the team down. I think I would be looking elsewhere and taking my fun teammates with me!

11. AnonymousNovember 22,2024 at 7:41PM UTC

    I worked for an awful director at my previous college. During the COVID shut down, we received 0 information on how we should continue doing our jobs--so, we all made the best of it. We also started a Friday night virtual HH --which really saved my sanity and it continued even when we went back to work a year later!!!

12. AnonymousDecember 2,2024 at 4:09PM UTC

    It sounds like you’re in a really challenging environment, and your concerns about the manager’s behavior and the impact it’s having on the team’s morale and cohesion are valid. You’re not overreacting—it’s natural to feel demoralized in a situation where psychological safety is compromised.

    Document Everything:

    If the manager's behavior is crossing professional boundaries, it’s important to document specific instances of emotional abuse, micromanagement, or other concerning actions. This can serve as a record if you decide to escalate the issue to HR or higher leadership.

    Reframe the Team Meetings:

    Turning the meetings into “pet discussions” may not be productive, but perhaps the meeting could be reframed to align with the manager’s directive while still maintaining some of its original purpose. For example:

    Keep part of the meeting formal for project updates.

    Reserve a separate time (outside work hours or off-the-record) for team bonding and peer support, where you feel safer to connect.

    Explore Communication Channels:

    Consider approaching the project manager directly to gauge their perspective. They might also feel like they’re being used as a tool to oversee the team and could be open to collaborating on how the meeting is run.

    Address the Manager’s Behavior (Carefully):

    If you feel safe, you might consider providing constructive feedback to the manager about how their actions are affecting the team. This could be done individually or as a group. Keep the focus on how team dynamics and productivity could improve with better communication and trust.

    Escalate the Issue (if Necessary):

    If the manager’s behavior is creating a toxic work environment, escalating the issue to HR or a higher authority might be worth considering. Be prepared with specific examples of how the behavior is impacting team performance and morale.

    Self-Care and Boundaries (this should be top of your list)

    When dealing with a demoralizing environment, it’s essential to prioritize your own well-being. Setting boundaries and focusing on what you can control can help reduce frustration. Feel your feelings. Make use of any benefits (work from home, days off, etc.).

    Long-Term Considerations:

    While leaving the company may not be an immediate option, it’s worth evaluating your career goals and exploring opportunities where the culture aligns better with your values. Updating your resume and networking on the side could give you peace of mind knowing you have options.

    Good luck!