PIP

22 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 6:01PM UTC

   I am an HRM and working with managers on PIPs. I have had employees handle PIPs many different ways. I always require that they sign it - it is not a legally binding document but more of an acknowledgment of receipt. When employees disagree with it, I encourage them to provide a rebuttal. When a PIP is put in place, I do not do so without the manager showing me ongoing documentation of the issue at hand, attempts to correct, documentation of communication and coaching with the employee. I also do not move forward with a PIP without legal weighing in.

2. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 6:10PM UTC

   You are the exception, most HR pros do not know or understand the process and therefore it it done poorly or improperly more often than not

3. AnonymousOctober 12,2023 at 1:07PM UTC

   They really aren’t an exception. It just feels that way to some. I had to put someone on a PIP who had months upon months of documented poor behavior and she refused to believe it. Some people are oblivious to the reality of their performance.

4. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 10:07PM UTC

   That is the correct process.
   Unfortunately most companies use a PIP as the first step to fire someone for cause.

5. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 6:06PM UTC

   O wow I was in a predicament like this last year.
   I had a PIP for inaccurate content. I was asked to sign it and I didn't because I didn't agree with none of it. HR ask me to write a statement because I didn't agree, it cause me not to get a bounce or a raise for the year, after all the hard work I do. So, I understand what you are going through. My suggesting to you would be update your resume and stay positive while on your job search.

6. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 7:06PM UTC

   Typically, a PIP ends with a signature stating they were given the written and verbal performance plan ONLY. It should also say that in the event you disagree with any of the content, how to appeal it. Signing it does not indicate you agree to it, only that you received it. When I have done them, I use phrasing like, "Signing below only indicates that I have discussed this with [my manager] and received the written copy. If I disagree with anything written here, I understand that I must [...appeal process...]."

7. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 7:15PM UTC

   Document everything on a flash drive or emails to yourself. If the PIP is specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-bound (S.M.A.R.T.), it's theoretically possible to save your job by following it.

   In my case, my boss didn't like me (or rather, she didn't like it that I called her on her BS when she denied me a raise). My boss didn't do any of the correct things, then I was transferred to one of her underlings, who also was incompetent. It didn't really matter, because HR wasn't paying attention and really only wanted to keep the higher-paid managers happy. They forced me out, but by subtly letting them know I'd documented everything, they had to do it "without cause," which was better for me financially.

8. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 10:12PM UTC

   My boss was the same.
   She gave me high level work and hoping I'd fail, I didn't. Angered her. She had a person from another department who never did my job write out SOPs and told me to follow in an email for another assignment. I did. Proved I did and that along with daily documentation of each day got me to a different department I'm organization

   I had a fall, out for a month due to Dr note, surgeries etc. The DAY I returned she let me go.

9. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 10:09PM UTC

   Been there!! And the day I was released they lied. A total mess. I was issued one in June and before hand NEVER as as much as a displinary case -

   What saved me with the ability to transfer within organization to a different department was that I document my daily routine and showed them..... each WS in WB is the payroll period, day by day.

   They weren't expecting me to do that but I had been documenting since day 1. Every meeting, training session, project, progress....

10. AnonymousOctober 11,2023 at 10:52PM UTC

    Been there & proved them wrong but it was corporate warfare and they constantly tried to fire me.

    The PIP is the pleasantry before you're shoved out there. If you want to stay, documentation is the name of the game, and get a lawyer. Do you fall into the EEOC category? Report a complaint.

    Decide if you want to bow out or brawl, baby.

11. Heather (she/her)October 12,2023 at 10:42AM UTC

    Anyone on a PIP should have the opportunity to submit a rebuttal to the PIP that lays out their view of the situation and any supporting content they'd want to offer up. You should have the chance to submit that to your boss, your COO, and your HR team.

12. AnonymousOctober 12,2023 at 1:06PM UTC

    If you’re complying with the PIP already as the OP claims, you should ultimately come off it with no issues.

13. Heather (she/her)October 12,2023 at 4:35PM UTC

    That's absolutely a possibility, but the percentage of people who successfully come off of a PIP is very low in most organizations. PIPs can be applied for many reasons, and both the reasons for applying them and what constitutes successfully complying with them can be open to a lot of interpretation. It's always a good idea to file a rebuttal if you don't agree with what the PIP is saying happened, since you want it on record that what you're theoretically being held accountable for isn't accurate from your standpoint.

14. AnonymousOctober 13,2023 at 6:27PM UTC

    The percentage who come off PIPs is low because many people put on a PIP are choosing not to be aware of their own bad behavior. You can file all the rebuttals you want, but PIPs don't come out of nowhere. They just feel that way to subpar employees.

15. Heather (she/her)October 15,2023 at 1:19PM UTC

    So, then, it's impossible for a PIP to be assigned by a bad manager or toxic org? Every PIP is always because the employee is "subpar"?

16. AnonymousOctober 12,2023 at 12:04PM UTC

    a PIP, Performance Improvement Plan, is just that, laying out what needs to be improved upon, when you stop thinking you don't need improvement it's really a YOU thing. Yes, this can be viewed in some orgs that final attempt to get a team member where they need to be to continue this position. With the revolving needs of the business it's imperative to be a constant learner and adopting new processes. When people 'don't agree' they are really sharing 'I don't need improvement, I'm happy with my performance as it is'. Caution that mindset. Give it a shot, see what they're looking for and address. It may be something you will like the improvements you could see. OR at the end, when you have that follow up with your leader you yourself may come to the conclusion this position is no longer your passion. You not signing doesn't negate it, btw.

17. AnonymousOctober 13,2023 at 11:04AM UTC

    It's not fair to characterize a disagreement with the PIP as an employee saying they don't feel like they need to improve. If the facts being presented are inaccurate, it's important for the employee to be able to document that, and it's also important to consider that not all PIPs are put in place with the right mindset or intentions from the leaders or HR. Yes, it's important to be honest about your strengths and faults as an employee, but the number of people I've seen be able to work themselves back off of a PIP even when they're doing things right is pretty low.

18. AnonymousOctober 13,2023 at 12:02PM UTC

    I would suggest re-reading the posters viewpoint, leans pretty heavy to that. I don't believe it was 'characterizing a disagreement' it was clearly, stating what the intention of a PIP is for. NONE of us can speak on the human motivation. I would encourage a more hopeful mindset for all.

19. AnonymousOctober 12,2023 at 1:05PM UTC

    Don’t assume they are managing you out. I’ve had to put several employees on PIPs and most end up staying when they come off. Be critical with yourself.

20. AnonymousOctober 13,2023 at 12:45PM UTC

    From my experience with pip it wasn’t performance based but more political.
    My old department would put anyone on a pip who didn’t agree with the political games that were being played. They even told me I was top performer before the pip. While on the pip I got a new job and when I put in notice they were like why are you leaving??? Started my new job and moved on. Current job they did the same, not with me this time because I learned the game. That manager who would put people on pip is now fired. If they are actually using it as a tool to improve , do so on your end, but also start looking for another job.

21. Jennifer ElliottOctober 13,2023 at 1:59PM UTC

    Every situation is different, but based on my experience, a PIP rarely ends well. Generally, managers put employees on a PIP in order to push them out and document the process to protect themselves legally. Once an employee is on a PIP, they are under a microscope. PIPs can be issued due to performance issues but I have also seen managers, even HR folks, use PIPS to push out good employees. I'd recommend updating your resume and start looking for a new role. The writing is on the wall. If they terminate you, you can file for unemployment. But document everything. Good Luck!

22. Renee S.October 13,2023 at 5:51PM UTC

    Look for another job