Remote Work Accountability - Am I Wrong?

50 Comments

1. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 8:59PM UTC

   Assuming your removal from the agenda was understood by all as your removal from the presenter status was not wise. But the disjointed schedule was confusing.

2. Jessica MinterDecember 15,2023 at 9:08PM UTC

   I wouldn't harp on the fact that meetings aren't supposed to be scheduled on Friday's because something urgent could come up, but I would ask for at least a few days advanced knowledge if you are expected to present. That's not fair to reach out 45 minutes in advance! Seems like there were assumptions on both sides, so clearer communication in advance could have prevented a mix up (i.e. you could've asked her about the presentation when your name appeared and then was removed and she could've give you more notice). That aside, you did the right thing by keeping your appointment and providing the notes! ?

3. AnonymousDecember 16,2023 at 1:33AM UTC

   My advise for next time is to communicate your availability so leadership knows in advance. Planning an all staff day can be very involved and morph again and again. If you were on to present I would consider you are someone they consider vital and wouldnt have scheduled you had they known, I can appreciate your bosses assumed frustration (however have a conversation to apologize for the mix up rather than assume they are annoyed), I am guessing they are juggling lots of balls in the planning too).

4. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 2:13PM UTC

   Unless you have an approved time away, a manager in the know of you not being available that day, I feel IMO that you should be 100% available. It is their time, and they are not paying you to call in, regardless if it's typically a 'no meeting' date. Doesn't mean those dates they aren't expecting you to be 100% available as the needs of the business warrant. Things happen and meetings that don't normally get planned get planned.

5. Judith SheehanDecember 18,2023 at 3:21PM UTC

   If you have an appointment that would be understandable - you are or should be allowed Drs appointments, etc. however I ALWAYS let my supervisor know and approve it, and then put it on my calendar as busy and OOO. If not, I’d expect to be fired for not going to work.

6. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 3:22PM UTC

   If you knew you were going to be AFK during the all hands you should have made sure your manager knew that you were not available.
   Whether that requires PTO or just a shifted schedule would depend on your company and manager’s policies. Remote work normally means you need to be at your computer and available during those hours, and unfortunately when people are not is when unfortunately some companies start doing things like monitoring keyboard time.

7. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 3:58PM UTC

   It falls in your lap for communication.

   i would apologize for the miscommunication, and ask them how to handle this if it happens again and for how you should handle time away for appointments when not taking a full day off.

   once done. I would send a thank you for your time and feedback. As per our conversation (bullet out process).

8. Colleen HansonDecember 18,2023 at 4:03PM UTC

   I am assuming since your manager asked if you were taking the day off that you had not communicated that you needed personal time off for an appointment. If you worked in an office and not remotely you would be required to let your manager know that you need time off for an appointment. This should have been cleared before your appointment, and if it wasn't then you were in the wrong. My daughter has struggled with this at her job. They have two days that they work remotely and there is one employee who is always a no-show for last minute meetings, etc. on his "remote" days. He always claims to have an appointment of some sort that he has not informed anyone of even though they are required to submit time off requests two weeks in advance unless it is an emergency. Digging deeper and starting to monitor his keyboard/screen time, they have found that he is using his remote work days for personal things (he is logging in and then can't be reached), rather than using his days off or taking PTO. He is about to be fired. I would tread lightly and apologize if no one was aware that you would not be available. Impromptu or not, if you did not make anyone aware of your personal appointment and were expected to be working remotely, you are in the wrong.

9. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 2:46PM UTC

   Well said! We have people where I work who do the same thing. They are habitually unavailable on either of their two remote workdays, but nothing is ever done. They use these days as personal days, rather than treating them for what they are: a regular workday. At least your daughter's workplace is taking corrective measures.

10. Rebecca MillikenDecember 18,2023 at 4:05PM UTC

    I would apologize and make sure to inform her next time you have an appointment. My job has flexible hours and I can be off meeting a client or whatever at any time but I do try to let my boss know when I have a doctor appointment or something just so this type of thing doesn't happen. Never assume the schedule is going to fall in your favor--i.e. "oh it's a no meeting day so I should be in the clear." Murphy's law will always get you. I don't know how many times things have happened to me like this.

11. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 4:20PM UTC

    Did you have that time blocked on your calendar with OOO?

12. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 5:30PM UTC

    You made an personal appointment without letting her know?

    whether or not, meetings are scheduled or not, if you are on the clock, you need to be available

    last minute meetings can happen anytime

    I would suggest you clear your personal appointment with your boss and set your out of office message

    no way around it, you made a mistake

13. Jennifer TaylorDecember 18,2023 at 9:17PM UTC

    I disagree. When you work remotely, you are given a lot of autonomy. I don't let my boss know every time I run an errand during the day. My boss also knows that 100% of my work is being completed on-time as well.

14. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 5:32PM UTC

    I think this depends on the culture and nature of your office/team.

    If you have the kind of environment where you can freely manage your schedule and make appointments and be away during the work day without formal approval or taking PTO, and this was something that’s been done in the past and is common in your group—then I would just chalk this up to a bit of miscommunication, unfortunate timing, and odd planning. Sometimes those things happen, and as long as everything was taken care of, these kinds of things shouldn’t be dwelled upon by anyone. It’s things like this, that are seemingly small in nature, but get blow out of proportion by someone, that create poor working environments; this is what makes employees feel unappreciated and micromanaged. If all else is well, a single incident should not cause significant disruption. We are humans and we have lives. Remote/flexible/no-meeting days allow for balance of our work and lives.
    It’s possible she may have felt thrown in last minute, but everyone likely was inconvenienced in some way with that big meeting scheduled on a no meeting day—especially with the confusion around presenting.
    Personally, I don’t apologize for having a life/appointments or conflicts because it happens to everyone. Being in a position of management doesn’t mean you are totally free from inconveniences and push them to your subordinates—but the contrary! As a manager, you are paid more, and given more responsibility, so that in the event something comes up and your directs can’t take care of it you should be able to step in. That’s what good managers do. They don’t throw directs under the bus. If she has a problem with it, she needs to tell you where you might have been able to help her, help you better. A manager should never operate passive-aggressively or cause directs to assume. Being a leader is tough—but that’s the job.

15. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 5:34PM UTC

    No meeting day does not equal no work day. When I get permission to work from home, I keep a log of my times in and out and if I have to be somewhere for an appointment, I schedule PTO even if working from home that day.

    My company would have probably put you on a final warning for this.

16. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 9:16PM UTC

    Wow! That is some serious micro-managing. Does your company realize that it has adults working for them? If I was treated like that, I'd be looking for another job.

17. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 6:01PM UTC

    Respectfully, I'm kind of judging you right now. No meetings does not equal no work. More than that, the all staff day was scheduled in advance and you were expected to be there, regardless of whether you were a presenter. Even in the best case scenario, you may have been called upon to provide subject matter expertise.

    Depending on your work culture, most likely, you don't need to account for every minute of every day, but if you have outside conflicts with work time, you need to communicate that and use PTO.

18. Focused931221December 18,2023 at 6:53PM UTC

    If you have a personal appointment that prohibits you from being available to work, then you should notify your manager. I understand your logic in not cancelling your appointment; however once you made your appointment, you should have notified your manager so they know that you will not be available (ie to be a presenter); otherwise its fair game. You're on the clock, paid and expected to work/be present (virtually). Communication is the crux of the issue here. If you feel like your manager is bothered by this incident, then please reach out to her, schedule a meeting and discuss what happened. Clear the air so there are no bad feelings and you can move on.

19. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 7:15PM UTC

    I'm the OP - This has received more attention. A detail that should be clarified is that this would have taken me away from my desk at lunchtime. It's not something that required taking time off of work, but I was in transit for a portion of the meeting. Also, in this org we don't reference one another's calendars for availability, as they are not typically up to date. At other organizations, you could rely on people's calendars to know availability. But they aren't used that way here.

20. Nichelle SpykeDecember 19,2023 at 3:05PM UTC

    None of this is your fault if they don’t check calendars—my suggestion would’ve been to block the time out on your calendar (as I do) and shame on them for not checking calendar availability. Not doing so results in this type of situation. I would definitely let my boss know (hey there, I’d like to circle back with you regarding…)that you had an appointment scheduled on a non-meeting day that was established months prior and when you were removed as a presenter it posed no problem as you intended to attend while still able to make your appointment. You’re definitely NOT in the wrong here.

21. Tami CannizzaroDecember 19,2023 at 3:37PM UTC

    Thanks for clarification. Still, it seems that this mix-up is about lack of communication. Your boss/supervisor didn't know of your plans to be out of office so she was making plans that included you and was somewhat blind-sided. In the future, as soon as something like this comes up, I would immediately contact my supervisor to let them know of the timing conflict and propose a solution - even though you didn't think it would be a problem because it's during lunch hour.

22. Jennifer TaylorDecember 18,2023 at 9:15PM UTC

    I work remotely, and I hear what you're saying. I regularly schedule doctor's appointments and such during normal "work" hours because I'm an adult and will work a full 8-hour day regardless. The only difference is that at my company, we DO use calendar and I always put the times I'm not available in calendar.

    To your point, this was a non-meeting day and you scheduled an appointment on a day that was a non-meeting day. I would tell your boss exactly that. I scheduled this appointment on a non-meeting day. Let them know you were using that time as your lunch hour and that is your own time.

23. Audrey KirschDecember 18,2023 at 10:55PM UTC

    You didn't plan a last-minute appointment and you didn't purposely schedule it on a meeting day. I too work remotely and when I need to go to an appointment it is often on a work day, but like you, I skip lunch, work later in the day or make up for the time missed in some way. You should just explain that you would be happy to present even on a non-meeting day but that you need a little more notice to prepare. And let your boss know that you made your appointment well in advance on a day when there wasn't a meeting scheduled and you didn't have enough time to reschedule it. People should understand that. I know if I need to reschedule a doctor's appointment, it can sometimes take months to find another available date. You were still willing to attend the meeting via phone. The boss should cut you a little slack.

24. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 1:40PM UTC

    No you were removed as presenter I wouldn't even think much about it. I never attend meetings-my last company knew to put me as optional and most executives expect a certain percentage of people to not attend meetings. Some people really love meetings, usually the ones that are running them, I'm not one of those people.

25. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 3:12PM UTC

    You never attend meetings?! Interesting. Definitely not advice I would recommend to others.

26. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 3:20PM UTC

    I do not. I'm fairly introverted and good managers don't care. I've had a couple.

27. Ioana Monica DorhoiDecember 19,2023 at 2:05PM UTC

    you are playing with your job. Be serious.

28. Zaira CollazoDecember 19,2023 at 2:27PM UTC

    Whether working from home or in the office, the best way to avoid this in the future is to,

    1. When you have a personal appointment during work hours, whether it was during your lunch hour or not, is a simple FYI when you make the appointment.
    2. Block that time as a private appointment in your work calendar.
    3. And send another reminder.

    It may not help if your boss is an asshole but it can certainly cover you because it you documented and informed them.

29. Tasha PattersonDecember 19,2023 at 3:35PM UTC

    I document on my calendar too even if during my lunch period because we can take an hour lunch between 11am-2pm. Usually I dont notate My lunch unless I have to take off for an appt, especially an important appointment that I wouldn’t want to reschedule if something random at work happens

30. Rebecca MillikenDecember 19,2023 at 8:34PM UTC

    Totally unrelated but Zaira was my Nonna's name and I've never seen anyone else with that name!

31. lilahgaelDecember 19,2023 at 2:27PM UTC

    Even on non meeting days, you should always let your supervisor know in advance that you have an appointment on X date at X time and if you are going over lunch or using PTO.

    Regarding this incident, you should explain what happened, why it happened, and what you are going to do moving forward so it doesn’t happen again.

32. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 2:41PM UTC

    I'm trying to understand exactly what is happening here. Was your appointment something short that you were intending to do over your usual lunch break and they then scheduled a meeting during your lunch time? If so, I might have just reached out and let them know you had a lunchtime appointment scheduled that conflicted with the meeting.

    I too work from home and I do schedule things over my lunch sometimes. I don't always tell my manager, but sometimes if it's super important I'll let him know that I HAVE to take my lunch at the usual time because of something I need to attend to. But most of the time I don't bother as it's my off hour and not their business.

    If this is something you were intending to do while on the clock? That depends on workplace culture. If you have a job where you can work most any hours (e.g. as long as you get your 8 hours in, it doesn't matter) then it may not be a big deal but might be polite to let managers know your plans?

    Working remotely is a definite privilege and I do my best, personally, to make sure they have no reason to try to force me back into the office.

33. Barbara SantosDecember 19,2023 at 2:41PM UTC

    I work in a consulting company where everyone is remote and we're also in different timezones. My supervisor is not aware of my schedule as she does not supervise me on my projects. In our company culture, most of us schedule private appointments during work hours and block our calendars. In such a situation, you are not wrong about not dropping your personal app for the meeting. The one thing I'd suggest you to do next time is when the meeting request comes in and you have a prior appointment, flag to the meeting organizer and your supervisor that you won't be able to attend. Meeting organizers usually don't keep track of replies until the last minute, so they might not have seen you wouldn't be able to attend. Of course, that's not your responsibility, but it is still good practice to take all precautions possible to avoid attrition.

34. Julie EDecember 19,2023 at 2:55PM UTC

    The minute the meeting popped up I would have reacheduled my appointment, unless it was a doctor’s appointment that would take weeks to reschedule. At that point I would have been transparent with my manager and explained that you were going to use your lunch hour for the appointment and what it will take to reschedule it but leave it up to your manager if you should be at the meeting. In the future, give your manager a heads up when you have an appointment during working hours. Don’t be surprised if they call a meeting and request that if you. This was a bad move to put your personal business first during working hours and the lack of communication.

35. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 3:32PM UTC

    Wow! This post has enlightened me to a lot of workplace cultures! OP, I work in a similar culture in that we are treated like adults. It is not a big deal to schedule appointments during work hours, as that is when most places are open. It is expected that you make up those hours and be a responsible adult. Sometimes I mention my appointments to my manager, sometimes I don't. It's really just if it comes up in casual conversation - but I do block my calendar.

    Where I think you messed up OP, is when they initially had you as the presenter. Clearly this meeting was something that you could offer insight to if they were going to have you present. That would have flagged me to tell my manager that I was planning on listening to the meeting while traveling to an appointment, to make sure that I wasn't needed in any capacity. That would have put it on everyone's radar that you would not be able to help.

    I would offer a quick sorry to my boss and explain the situation briefly. Move on and try to anticipate needs in advance while communicating potential obstacles (availability).

36. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 7:12PM UTC

    When you are “on the clock” you make yourself “available” during those work hours.this does not change from the company culture or size or nature of the business organization.yes, we are all adults and we are accountable for our work schedule.yes it is ok to leave your desk for an hour or so to take care of urgent personal matter or a doctor appts however, you should let your manager know what is going onfor example, if you are taking a walk in your neighborhood for 20 min to stretch your legs and get some vitamin D, that should be fine. We do not have to be glued to the screen for every second of every hour.but if you are leaving for a dr appt which can take up to 2hours (driving to and from, waiting, etc) I would sent a quick note to your boss and a coworker that you’ll be away from your desk so they can cover if anything came up that needed attention I think the poster was trying to be stealth and unfortunately it didn’t turn out that well. I would not gamble on anything more than 30 to 45 min and I would be close by to get back to my desk. I would not be going to lunch with the friends.

37. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 9:17PM UTC

    I second this. My organization is like this as well. My call to action would have been me being added to the agenda. (Even if I was removed later.) To let my manager know that I would prepare anything needed from me, and the reason I’m not available.

38. Betsy Simpson McEntireDecember 20,2023 at 3:10AM UTC

    Agree! If most of your office works remotely and you have an appointment during normal business hours, then be sure to block off the time on your calendar for boss and team awareness.

39. J VDecember 22,2023 at 12:04AM UTC

    I agree with this. I would add that even if the OP was never on the agenda to present -- if a staff meeting is called during normal work hours and you have a personal appointment, an email should have been sent to let the boss as a heads up. Because you don't know if you will experience connectivity issues, background noise, or get asked a question during the meeting.

40. AnonymousDecember 22,2023 at 7:05PM UTC

    I think some of it really depends on the job. I work in a position coordinating field service calls to sites. So my work hours really are 8 to 5 and I need to be at my desk during most of that (I get an hour lunch when someone else watches the queue). There's no set time for calls to come in and if it's an emergency I have to react right away.

    Do I take some breaks (I'm allowed a couple anyway)? Yes. Sometimes I run my dog out quickly, sometimes I go wash some dishes or whatever. But if I'm going to be gone for more than a 15 minute break I reach out and either take PTO or figure some way to make up the time (generally shortening lunch breaks).

41. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 6:49PM UTC

    I would remind your manager of the removal of you from the agenda and then let them know of your personal commitment. Don't share what it is unless it is special hard to get doctors appointment because they might try to shame you into doing this anyway. Offer up your presentation to her for her to show to the team instead. Going forward I would be sure to block the calendar time openly to say all meetings will be declined during this time for any outside commitments you make. What does confuse a bit in your commentary though is if you have not taken the day off then she assumes you are available. If you weren't you should be sure to broadcast you are not working during that set time.

42. Kathryn CarrDecember 19,2023 at 7:20PM UTC

    Not at all. You have as much right to sleep as anyone else, no matter where you live.

43. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMEDecember 19,2023 at 8:00PM UTC

    Are you an exempt employee? If you are, this could be why the company felt they could infringe upon your time.

    Inaddition, there was a lack of planning and scheduling for this meeting. Speakup and have your voice heard to prevent this from happening again.

44. Yasu TalodinDecember 19,2023 at 9:48PM UTC

    The problem with working in different time zones is that management needs to keep up with when it makes sense to have team or all-hands meetings--whether the team is exempt or not. I know if I lived on the West Coast, I wouldn't want to be sitting in a 'state of business' call at 6a that started at 10a on the East Coast for 2 hours because quite frankly, I'd still be mentally asleep.

    That said, everyone takes off at some point during work hours, so it shouldn't be a problem for any company. Hopefully, you blocked the time off on your calendar prior--doesn't matter if you're going to the doctor or going to--oh, I don't know--talk to your divorce attorney?!

    If you haven't been blocking off your calendar, you should start. I disagree with people on here saying you should've changed your appointment. First, some appointments are hard to come by and secondly, employers have a way of taking advantage of people who are always willing to change their personal appointments, so don't get into the habit of doing that.

    Good luck!

45. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 11:23PM UTC

    I would have probably told my boss when the unexpected meeting came up on the calendar that I had a conflict but could be available by phone. That level of awareness would have allowed for everyone to plan alternative presentation knowing you might not be able.

46. JJDecember 19,2023 at 11:30PM UTC

    How do you know she is bothered?

47. Debbie HaroDecember 20,2023 at 6:38PM UTC

    communication should have been better on both ends. My team can manage their own schedules. Unless they’re going to be out more than 4 hours, they don’t need to put in for PTO but I’ve asked that they block the time on their schedule. Expectations should be made clear by your boss. If you were going to be unavailable during any part of an all-staff meeting, you should have said something about your appointment then. It’s reasonable at this point to have a direct conversation with your boss and tell her that this bothered you how it played out and discuss how to avoid it in the future. If she has feelings about it that she wants to share, that gives her an opportunity to share them.

48. Annalise MDecember 20,2023 at 6:39PM UTC

    Block it off on the calendar. You don't have to give details. But you do have some responsibility to communicate your availability during the workday. Hopefully your work uses shared calendars. I feel that my current workplace doesn't have many issues with this because we use the tech available to share calendars and block off any periods of time where we aren't available for one reason or another.

49. Mireille Wozniak-MichalakDecember 21,2023 at 9:31PM UTC

    This may lead your manager now to question if you are really working or off on some appointment... What is the policy on taking time off during the day?

50. Farah BajwaDecember 22,2023 at 7:57PM UTC

    Something similar happened to me - typically they give 3 months or so notice when they want us to travel to get together for an all-team meet up.
    This time they gave us 3 weeks and in my city! I'm the only one here. I told her I had already booked travel 2 months prior and would do my best to attend as much as possible via Teams
    I felt guilty but I think that's because as women we feel guilty when we shouldn't. They didn't give ample notice and my time away was already on the team calendar.
    Managers should understand scheduling conflicts and you did your best to support as much as you could.
    If managers can't appreciate this, then honestly its a good sign its not a good culture and its time to look elsewhere