I'm the owner of a small successful and growing company.

Anonymous

August 3,2023 at 12:55PM UTC

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I'm the owner of a small successful and growing company.

Three weeks ago we hired a new adminstrative assistant whose main role is to support our various sales segments. The role requires experience in MS Office and regular business etiquette.

Sadly, on day 2 I realized that the new hire was not proficient in Excel although her resume stated that she was. The role requires to be skilled in Excel. She did not know the most basic function- sum. That evening I sent her an email stating that the role requires Excel skills along with a YouTube link of an Excel tutorial. I told her she needed to improve. She never responded to that email.

I recently noticed that her writing skills are also lacking. She writes emails with out proper punctuation. For example, no periods at the end of sentences, lower case letters, where there should be upper case. I've sent her a note explaining that we expect her to write professionally especially when writing to our customers and partners. I also question her judgement since she recently offered a discount to a customer without checking with me if that was acceptable. It is not.

Despite these items she is functioning somewhat and getting other things completed in this multi-faceted role. Should I give her more time to see if she can be molded into the resource I need her to be? Or should I cut my losses and look to replace her? How long is reasonable to wait? I don't want to make a rash decision but also don't want things to get worse. This is an extremely critical role in our company. The role was vacant for about 5 weeks before she started and before that was held by someone for 2 1/2 years.

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AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:06PM UTC
Absolutely not.
Fire her today. Seriously. She lied. Went through this with a total crap employee last year and it took me 9 months to get rid of him because I'm not a small business owner who can just do the correct thing. This situation is not going to improve. Cut your losses by getting her out of there before you waste more time training someone who lies and makes other bad decisions that cost you time, money, and goodwill (because the customer she gave a discount to is going to expect it every time now and trash talk you when you tell them no or tell other potential customers about the discount who will then trash talk when you tell THEM no). She will also upset any other employees you have because everyone will know she sucks and you tolerate it. Makes it impossible to hold other employees to any reasonable standard because they always say, "but crap employee is 10x worse and gets away with it."
Jamie LeeAugust 3,2023 at 1:12PM UTC
How important is it that she can use Excel proficiently? Will it have a net negative impact on your bottom line?
Same with the misspelling and grammatical mistakes. Will those have a material impact on your business?
IF YES, then reconsider the hire.
If the impact is immaterial (say less than 5% impact on your bottom line), then I'd say give her a chance to improve.
But if you don't see improvements on either of these fronts by month three, then definitely let her go.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:13PM UTC
She obviously fudged the truth on her capabilities. Question: have you had a face to face conversation about this? You state you sent her an email or a note pointing out this thins, but why not a direct conversation? Would you also term her via email? I think your best bet would be to cut your losses. Perhaps enlist the assistance of an agency like OfficeTeam that can assess an individuals skills prior to getting the person in front of you.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:14PM UTC
Does she have the right attitude and seem motivated to learn and perform? If so, teach her new relevant Excel functions each time you give her a project. Edit her writing and provide the “why” behind the edits. Skills can be taught if you have someone with a positive “ can do” attitude who is eager to learn. But if not, you need to find someone who meets the requirements for the job.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:41PM UTC
Her attitude is that she's willing to lie and thinks she knows enough after THREE WEEKS to independently offer a discount. How on earth is there room for improvement there? She's a liar, stupid, AND arrogant. Impossible combination to work with IME.
Kimberley Ferretti HammettAugust 3,2023 at 1:20PM UTC
If she is still completing other work, my thought is to give her some more time to improve as these are really eay things to improve on. But I would suggest creating a performance improvement plan and making it clear to her that you expect to see improvement from her in X amount of time or her employment is at risk. Lay out the expectations and success markers and a general timeline (30 days is reasonable to see some improvement, especially in the email writing). Let her know that you're doing this because she's done well in other areas and you believe she can succeed in the role and be a great part of the team, but you run a business and these are requirements that were laid out in her job description so she agreed to carry them out.
This also gives you time if things aren't looking good to reach out to your network and start putting feelers out for a new assistant should this not work out. Don't post a position before that decision is made and communicated, but you can get some potentials in the pipeline so you don't go another 5 weeks without help. Hopefully it works out though. PIPs are uncomfortable but I've seen several people step up to the plate and improve things for everyone involved. Good luck!
Cyndi RosenblattAugust 3,2023 at 1:41PM UTC
Three weeks in is cutting losses territory, not PIP territory.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:58PM UTC
If 3 weeks is cutting losses territory, what is PIP territory?
Cyndi RosenblattAugust 3,2023 at 4:01PM UTC
I would say PIP territory is when they have basic skills but aren't catching on to your specific processes as quickly as you've seen historically. Take a little time, review your approach even though it worked with others, see if you can get them where they need to be. Three weeks in and they don't have basic skills? No, that's not worth coaching if there was any expectation of baseline competency upon hire. Different answer than I would have for an entry-level position with no preexisting skills required.
Kimberley Ferretti HammettAugust 3,2023 at 2:57PM UTC
I don't think there's a hard and fast rule on it. I don't see an issue with cutting their losses either. Just adding my opinion that if they are otherwise productive, those issues that are mentioned sound easy to correct and see quick improvement on which, if possible, would save the business a lot of money and time. Thirty days is also reasonable enough to see if there could be improvement or decide then to cut their losses and the PIP gives plenty of clarity and coverage to do so cleanly. If they were larger issues and they had a bad attitude (which maybe they do but it isn't mentioned in the post so I'm going off of that) then I would have recommended otherwise. As a Learning & Development Professional who has been a part of many of these conversations, I added my professional opinion based on the information provided. Not based on my personal feelings or bad experiences with employees.
Peggie Arvidson * Career Consultant | Adoptee Advocate | RecruiterAugust 3,2023 at 1:25PM UTC
You own the company - and it sounds like a small company.
So. Invest in your recruiting process - have a tech test ready for others - so that they can demonstrate their skills AHEAD of being hired. (don't trust a resume, trust a recruiter)
And now - as the owner, don't you have a responsibility to treat your small team like humans? Have a chat with her - stop with the passive aggressive email messages - because it sounds like your on-boarding process is lacking - why doesn't she know about a process for discounts? That's on you. When we're not trained on processes and procedures, we go with our gut.
You should train her - give her mentorship and guide her - and outline your expectations clearly , along with the milestones that need to be met and the consequences should they not be met.
I'm also curious why the person who was there 2.5 years left?
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 2:11PM UTC
I think not knowing about a specialized topic like discounts is perfectly normal with less than a month on the job, especially since it doesn't sound like she was hired for direct sales, just supporting that team. With complex jobs, you typically learn about responsibilities in stages and you generally get a grasp on new topics before the next duty is layered on. I'm more alarmed by having less than a month on the job and thinking it was in any appropriate to offer a discount without checking with someone.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 4:03PM UTC
Person might have left for other opportunities or personal issues.
TashaAugust 3,2023 at 8:52PM UTC
@Peggie, I too was curious why the other person left after only 2.5 years. Sure, there could be several reasons, but if you're having difficulty with a new hire AND recently lost someone who had been in the role for a relatively short stint, there may be some parallels that should be considered. That's not to say the business owner is the direct reason as there could be other things at play that the owner may not (but should) know are happening.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:53AM UTC
2.5 years is a reasonable length of time for a position to turn over, especially an AA job. Absent additional information, 2.5 years doesn’t raise red flags for me.
TashaAugust 7,2023 at 1:26PM UTC
2.5 years is reasonable, in and of itself. When coupled with difficulty with a new employee is where I might start asking myself what the issues are. Performance (Excel and discounts) is one thing; but, behavior (not responding to an email from your boss) is another. A later post mentions that maybe the OP might want to take a step back b/c the amount of pressure on the new employee may be overwhelming. It could be that the boss expects the new hire to be the same as the person who left the position and the new hire isn't there yet. It could be that an onboarding period should be phased in to help acclimate the new employee and ensure expectations are given and understood. Granted, when you run a small business, often as the owner, you wear all hats and have limited time but if you don't put in the time upfront, you will have to do so exponentially in the end.
KatAugust 3,2023 at 1:30PM UTC
I think you should cut your losses and move on. If you've met with her directly and told her what the expectations for the role are (proficient/expert in Excel, professional business writing, business etiquette, customer relations etc.) and she can't/won't/doesn't meet them, she's not the right fit for your business. Put a plan together with specific dates on it. For example, learn mid-level Excel skills in one month. Complete a business writing course in one month. Both of these should be on her own time and spending her own money. If she's willing to learn and grow, that's one thing. But if she's just muddling through (functioning somewhat as you say) and not trying to improve, then let her go. There are plenty of people that already have those skills (myself included) that are looking for jobs. Hire one of them. If this job could be done remotely, message me and we can have a talk about it.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 3:17PM UTC
I am sure that you are very busy. In a small company, the owner wears many hats. And I suspect that you do not have a training/onboarding department. Therefore, it is imperative that the people you hire have the basic knowledge and skills needed to do the job, the way it is done in your company. If all data is on spreadsheets, she needs to know how to use Excel. If correspondence needs to be written, she needs to use proper grammar and punctuation, because those messages represent your business out in the community.
It seems that either the job description was unclear or the employee was untruthful about her capacity. Regarding Excel, yes it can be taught. However, basic writing skills are learned throughout our elementary and high school years. An employer can't be expected to teach this.
Unfortunately, as described, your employee sounds simply unqualified for the job. I understand the compassion that some of the responses suggest, however, as a small business owner myself, I can't see a scenario where I would have the time to teach someone the basic skills needed for the tasks that my, and most businesses require these days. You say this is "an extremely critical role in our company". You need to look for someone else.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 3:44PM UTC
I'll be the bad guy.
If she can't respond to a YouTube tutorial.....how bad does she want it??
I am an Excel person who lost out to a person like this and I have PROVEN Microsoft exam scores!!!
I had to train a person as well who didn't know SUM much less other functions. She didn't last.
Sick of people lying to get ahead.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 4:09PM UTC
Personally, I say cut your losses now. I am discerning three red flags. 1. She lied on her CV. It is acceptable to stretch the truth a little, because an awful lot of people actually underestimate their skills and, in lying, they are actually getting nearer to the truth. But she just told a big fat lie and didn't even bother to backfill with free online tutorials. 2. She is representing your company and doesn't bother to use good English. Punctuation is taught at the youngest age, so she is choosing to not use it, as it is more natural to go with what you've been taught than to let it all go. 3. She is reckless. Lying on her CV is one form of recklessness, but she has given you more evidence by offering that discount without checking with you first. Overall, you paint a picture of someone who doesn't care. Do you want that in your workforce? Based on my experience, this will be the tip of the iceberg, because new joiners are on their best behaviour - the best behaviour of which they are capable. When that sheen of best behaviour drops from its current low position, what more will you see? Honestly, let her go now before she doesn't any actual damage.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 12:55PM UTC
I’m onboard with most of what you said. However, the comment about punctuation being taught young so she is choosing not to use it makes a lot of assumptions. Many people were taught things that they never really understood or got a good handle on. Maybe this person doesn’t know her grammar rules very well.
AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 4:10PM UTC
I'll second "the bad guy" comment.
I am rebooting my career as an environmental professional. The skills I list on my resume are ones I worked hard to perfect and I expect to be considered for a position based on that knowledge and experience. I refuse to lie on my resume and say that I can do something with proficiency when I can't. It is unfair to a prospective employer, and damaging to my personal credibility. I'm either the right candidate for the job or I'm not. As desperate as I may be to find a job, I'm not going to sacrifice my integrity.
If it were my business, I would go back and review the original pool of applicants to see if I could find a better fit. In future hiring situations, I might use aptitude testing as part of the hiring process if you require a certain level of proficiency in any skill. As an applicant, if I want a job bad enough, I am willing to prove that I have what it takes. Good luck!
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 11:52AM UTC
I'm the "original bad guy" and you illustrated your point PERFECTLY!!
Integrity is key!!!!! So is doing what it takes (honestly, of course!)
Well said :)
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistAugust 3,2023 at 4:36PM UTC
Cut your losses now. In a small company, every team member is that much more critical.
The longer you wait, the harder it's going to be.
Tami CannizzaroAugust 3,2023 at 6:49PM UTC
I understand that "lacking in skills" may be a red flag. Yet another red flag, in my opinion, is your apparent unwillingness to have an open and honest conversation with a new hire about her performance. Emails/texts or other will never substitute for speaking directly with someone to find out what's going on. As the boss, your job is to kindly speak with her. AND to ensure there is a new hire onboarding process, even if it's a brief one. As for the discount issue, I get it; that seems like common sense to you but if taken in the spirit that she may have been trying to provide "great customer service"(who knows) this is a quick training issue. If it's a repeat offense, then that's a different matter.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 12:23PM UTC
How would any of this make up for her lying about having a basic skill or decent grammar?
Erica ZAugust 4,2023 at 1:26PM UTC
Often an applicant considers their skill level to be highly proficient, and perhaps previous employers agreed with that assessment. I have often interviewed candidates who are very confident in a particular skill but once hired it becomes apparent they aren’t meeting the standards I expect. They weren’t never lying, proficiency can be subjective.
maria roseAugust 5,2023 at 12:59AM UTC
I get that you are extremely busy and stressed and highly disappointed with this person hasn’t been able to take over the role in the way you expected—in the short time that they have been in the position. You wanted a duplicate copy of the person who had that role for 2.5 years who left. We don’t know what happened to that individual, but apparently the job role includes intensive use of the Excel program. I am getting the impression you are not the in front person in this business and your preferred method of communication is emails and texts versus verbal communication.
Because of this communication preferences, you are experiencing a heightened stress reaction when things are not going as expected. But you don’t know how to deal effectively with correcting the situation without losing the individual hired for the position because of their inexperience with Excel and their overstepping their job role by giving a discount without approval.
You can fire the person for saying that their knowledge of using Excel and for giving a discount without prior approval BUT then you have to hire another person OR you can create a PIP for this person to get fully experienced in using Excel for your business as you use it —give them another week and make sure they understand that ALL discounts are done by your approval only. Put it in an email that requires the email to be acknowledged, printed out and brought back to you to be signed and placed that into their file. That’s giving them both a verbal notice and a written notice of expectations. But you will have to make sure this happens. Or deal with hiring a new person immediately.
Kelly GreyAugust 4,2023 at 10:16AM UTC
good luck with your company!
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 12:22PM UTC
Cut your losses. These are not “learning curve” issues.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 12:24PM UTC
I think you should have a discussion with her about her skills and her resume , it sounds like she was not entirely truthful.
If after that discussion you don’t think she is the best fit then Do what you need to do, and maybe on your next hire ask technical questions as well like how would you do x with excel, etc. sometimes a hire just doesn’t fit especially if they are not honest about their skills, it’s one thing to want to apply up but be honest about it you may not have all the skills but you need to say that and how quick you learn etc. I also wonder how she never answered your email your the owner she had no reply? But as owner that should have been a conversation first then paper trail
anyway good luck to both of you
rgstaffing@bellsouth.netAugust 4,2023 at 12:48PM UTC
I agree that you should cut your losses and let her go. She does not have the skills that you are looking for. Going forward, are you bringing the candidates into your office to interview? Hopefully, you are. Give them an excel exercise so that you can determine their skill level and have them write a brief email to you so that you can see if they are able to do that. And finally, what are you paying and are you offering benefits? I would be able to determine if your expectations are reasonable based on those two things. Did you check references before you hired her and did you address her skill level?
Adel CampbellAugust 4,2023 at 1:11PM UTC
She is an admin assistant… not a brain surgeon. Give her the chance to improve. Where else is she going to get this opportunity? You can help her improve by helping her out by showing her some basic Excel functions and encouraging her to learn more about Excel by watching Youtube videos about specific functions as needed. Install Grammarly om her PC / as a browser extension and tell her to use it. This will immediately improve her writing skills.
StellaAugust 4,2023 at 1:17PM UTC
These are basic functions for an Admin. Why should this employer tailor the job to this employee. The employee lied on her skill set. That is not acceptable. I’d cut my losses and re-recruit.
Cynthia Armistead NewmanAugust 4,2023 at 1:16PM UTC
I'm in the "cut your losses" contingent. Every email she sends to customers damages their impression of your company. It will take quite a while to recover from those bad impressions. Small companies cannot afford that sort of negative drag.
I work in tech now, but I started my career in administrative work way back in the 80s and was eventually an office manager. I would have fired her for cause after that first ignored email.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 1:23PM UTC
If she's having a difficult time sending professional email communications which should be the bare minimum in that role, she probably needs way more training than you can reasonably accommodate. If she had responded to your email acknowledging where she needs to improve her Excel skills, I would give her a second chance, but since there was no response, that shows you that her level of care in this role is severely lacking.
Louise ByrneAugust 4,2023 at 1:23PM UTC
I’ve not read all the comments, so apologies if this has already been mentioned.
If it were me in your shoes, I’d be considering the cost v reward element of it all. How much are you paying her, how much is it going to cost you in time and money to re-recruit, etc.
If she is very junior, it may be worth sitting her down and explaining why these skills that you’re pointing out are key to your business success and how you were under the impression she had them already because that’s what her resume said.
If she’s otherwise proficient at what you need, give her a chance to upskill (and show you she’s interested) and if that doesn’t work, then let her go.
QAugust 4,2023 at 1:35PM UTC
This is another vote to cut your losses. It's not a personal decision but an ethical one. She falsified information on her resume to get the job. That is a huge issue and you are already seeing it filter into other areas. She is comfortable lying for her own purposes and equally comfortable blowing you off when confronted. As others have said, the key function of an admin support role is communication. She lacks basic skills in this. Offering unapproved discounts also shows she is already quite comfortable overreaching her authority, despite not having addressed the things you brought up for improvement.This is a person who is likely to bring you grief and you'll be paying her the whole time for the privilege. It's nice to offer upskilling and give people a chance, but this role is already kicked off based on lies and she isn't upskilling she'd literally be just... Skilling. She does not have the entry baseline for the role.There are many people who need jobs and they also deserve a chance and compassion. Seek someone else for this role.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 1:40PM UTC
Cut your losses, but also -- this is the fault of your recruiting department. In their initial emails, they should have noticed punctuation & it seems that some type of virtual, screen-sharing test may need to be given surrounding excel functions etc.
Your assistant should save you time, not waste it lol. I would put her on a PIP & move on. If she wants to grow and adapt, she will. YOU have to be able to clearly articulate what she has to do, though. So, if you can't give her clear, concise and actionable feedback in a direct manner in the PIP -- you might need to work on how you communicate expectations to your team. That might be a broader gap at the root of the issues.
Chriscodyc1August 4,2023 at 1:41PM UTC
Cut her loose. She basically lied about her skill level. More importantly, she is representative of your company and a poor one at that. You are growing a company, not a tutorial service. This will be a life lesson for her to improve her skills. There is no “faking it until you make it” for this position.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 2:02PM UTC
Half the battle is getting someone to show up for work. If she has potential and is showing a willingness to learn more, use that to your advantage and groom her. If she is a fit for the culture and ethics of your company, I would offer her incentives and learning/training opportunities. She could prove to be one of your strongest employees if you take the time to mentor her,
Bonny FilandrinoAugust 4,2023 at 2:16PM UTC
I respectfully disagree
Bonny FilandrinoAugust 4,2023 at 2:14PM UTC
As a Staffing professional, I urge to move on. You cal learn Exc, unfortunately, writing and grammar, not likely. Remember: she misrepresented her Excel skill, as a new employee, ignored your email and offered a discount without permission. I have 45 years of experience..move on otherwise she will make you and your team miserable!
Paula Manczuk-HannayAugust 4,2023 at 2:19PM UTC
At first read, my thought was to cut your losses. However, it seems that all your feedback has been delivered via email. Have you spoken to her directly? That might be a more effective way to communicate with her. Of course if she doesn’t improve, you can still cut your losses.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 2:30PM UTC
Cut your losses. She lied on her resume that she was proficient in excel. If that’s what you need and what you hired her for she’s not up to the task. I’m addition, it takes time to learn and get good at it. Millions of people already know how to do this today. Hire someone else.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 2:36PM UTC
She lied on her resume. Call her out on it or if you think she is worth saving, can she do another role and hire a new admin?
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 2:42PM UTC
Cut your losses. She didn't have the skills she claimed to have on her resume, offered a discount without your permission and isn't responsive to your emails about what she needs to do to improve. The skills she doesn't have are damaging your business in the eyes of your outside stakeholders.
If you do decide to keep her on, I would restructure her role to limit her to what she does well at the moment, put her on a PIP and reassign the Excel work and anything else she's not doing well until she improves sufficiently to restore that work to her.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 2:47PM UTC
I think that she is going to be a problem in the long run. If she is having issues already, I would tell her I am sorry, but she just isn't the correct person for the job.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 2:56PM UTC
Give her 3 months to adjust. Let her know this is a probationary period to show improvements. This has to be done methodically so there is no backlash for termination.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 3:05PM UTC
I had the same type of employee. On her interview she spoke professionally and interviewed well, so I didn't think this person couldn't write a standard reply to an email. She too didn't use capitalized letters or a period at the end of the sentence. Some emails went out with lol's which nothing was funny about the response. I spoke with her several times about the poorly written emails. Nothing had changed after a month, I terminated her. It was well within the three month probationary period and HR agreed with me.
People told me to ask for cover letters when posting a position. She did send a cover letter. Someone else must have written it for her. You never know who you hire!
I'm sure there is someone capable of doing your job. Perhaps you should start out with a temporary employee. This way you can see how they work and then make it a permanent position. Good luck!
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 9:33PM UTC
I always say during the interview you meet the representative and not the person.
people hire out to have resumes and cover letters written. I think there is an age group that grew up texting and many (not all) lack the professional writing skills, there are times I am not be of them. I catch myself not using proper punctuation and capitalizing when necessary.
Cyndi RosenblattAugust 5,2023 at 11:57AM UTC
The downside to temps is that you are eliminating a lot of well-qualified people from the candidate pool because they already have jobs and aren't willing to switch for a temp role which often doesn't include benefits.
Michelle S.August 4,2023 at 3:19PM UTC
I hate to say it, but I think you should look at her soft skills because you can train technical skills, but you can’t train soft skills. If she is dishonest, and not communicating, then know that those things will never get better. I hate to say it, but it’s best for everyone to cut your losses and find someone else.
Michelle S.August 4,2023 at 3:20PM UTC
I think that the longer you have her on staff, also, the harder it’s going to be as far as being terminated for misconduct. After a week, or so, you can cut your losses and move on with no backlash. But the longer you go, the more you’ll have to document. And depending on the state you live in, unemployment may or may not factor in the longer you go.
Vi BrownAugust 4,2023 at 3:47PM UTC
I'm in general agreement that it may be better to move on. Some thoughts about the next applicant: I worked for a community college district about 10+ years ago and the standard for admin interviews was to have them demonstrate some of the skills that were being requested as a part of the interview. Applicants had to take a typing test for wpm, create an Excel spreadsheet, develop a letter in Word based on some basic info, etc.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 4:09PM UTC
As an EA, I was once starting off. I had minimal excel experience as most of what I did was word or powerpoint (or their variations back in the day i/e Lotus 123 and Word Perfect). As I saw the need to get updated in Excel I went and took the initiative to learn more. I am by no way an expert but I can get by more than beginner. I also had a mentor who taught me the tips and tricks along the way.
I am not sure she will go any further if she is not responding. I would do a face-face and put the requirements up front as to what is expected and a timeline to get it done (training, etc). She could be green and need a little guidance.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 4:43PM UTC
I’m gonna go against most of the opinions on this poster and try to look at this objectively and I’m not going to blame the employee and malign her as a liar or a cheat.
when you are hiring a worker, the burden is on you (the employer) to do their due diligence and make sure you have screened her for necessary skills for the job.
you did not say if it was you or someone else who brought her on.
if you had expectation that the position requires a working level proficiently of excel and this was critical, was there a test given?
many people list word and excel on their resume because most jobs just require you to know how to create a simple spreadsheet.
if you are looking for vlookups, pivot tables and advanced financial spreadsheets, you are not gonna get it when you advertise general administrative assistant.
there is no lie or trickery here from the employee. I would suggest you properly screen and give them a writing / excel test
can’t advise you whether you should keep or cut your loss as there are too many details missing.
the part about her not “replying” to your YouTube tutorial email is just plain silly. Speak to her but don’t send passive aggressive emails and get mad because she didn’t get it.
also the SUM function on excel is basically a button on the top. It takes 3 seconds to show her. It’s not that complicated.
I suggest you write down everything you are expecting and make sure they at least meet 80%. Not sure how much you are paying her but if you want someone with strong excel skills, you may need to pay more.
good luck recruiting!
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 6:13PM UTC
OP said the employee didn't know how to sum a list of numbers. I had a similarly lying employee who didn't know how to add a row to an existing spreadsheet. These are fundamental activities that anyone (truthfully) listing Excel or claiming to know Excel will be able to do. And if that's the level of function you need, the existing Excel tests are massive overkill (I know because HR offered to add that to my hiring criteria for the next round).
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 4:44PM UTC
As the owner of the company, I'm sure that by now you've created a HR team. If not, why not? You also should have created an employee handbook with policies for employees to reference. And, in most jobs, there is a 90-day period where job training, company proprietary methods, and related information is shared with the employee so they can perform their job to standards. Ask someone to work with her to get her up to speed. If no one has trained her, that's on you and your management team.
Darlene LittlejohnAugust 4,2023 at 5:45PM UTC
People who work for larger companies seem to just presume that everyone should have an HR team, and in this case, a management team too. Many small businesses have only a handful of employees. Often the owner is the only management. All HR, too, is up to the owner, as is all training.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 7:14PM UTC
Then they need to ensure that their small business attorney can handle their HR issues. No matter the size of the business, there are legalities at every level.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 6:09PM UTC
90-day probation is fine, and it's helpful to have a 30-60-90 plan to clearly lay out training goals. But that's not equivalent to an obligation to keep someone who is clearly a walking red flag. In this case, it would be wasting more of OP's time with little to no chance of rehabilitation. Someone else pointed out that people tend to be on best behavior in the beginning. I don't think OP wants to see how much worse it can get if this is the high point.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 7:58AM UTC
What size is your company? If it’s small, it likely doesn’t have all these things. Especially if you’re I startup.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 5:14PM UTC
I would sit her down and tell her that you are doing a check in and want to provide feedback on what is good and what needs improvement. Call it a 30 day check-in. Let her know first what she is doing well. Then let her know that you need her to improve on XYZ by X date. Offer her the same videos you did in the email and let her know that when you provide a directive a la the email that you need her to respond to that corrective action and that it is not intended to berate her but that you want her to improve both for you and her sake. See how she reacts, and watch her body language. If you get resistance or arguments then you know you will have longer term problems. If she is smart and truly wants to keep the job she will understand that you are there to support her but that you also need a job done. As for giving discounts, you will need to tell her where her authority for all things monetary ends. Have her contact you immediately if there is the risk of either losing a customer or if there is an escalation with a customer that needs your attention. Let her know she is too new to make those decisions and that you as the owner of the business is the final call. No exceptions. If none of this works, look through your backup candidates from when you first interviewed the group and see if they are still available, if not then repost the role and cut your losses. When and if you re-hire someone new use one of the online tests for testing MS office skills or ask them for their certifications using the programs you need.
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 11:32PM UTC
Thank you for this very thorough advise. This all makes a lot of sense. I'll be doing this tomorrow!
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 6:29PM UTC
I'd evaluate whether she misrepresented her capabilities or your screening process needs improvement. If it's the latter I'd give her an additional 30 days to improve, but lay out very specifically what that looks like. If she misrepresented herself I'd cut my losses immediately. There is nothing more disheartening to good employees then watching bad ones be tolerated.
Cindy GrossAugust 4,2023 at 8:15PM UTC
If she has some skills that are working for you, consider trying some different communication styles. She may not understand your instructions and feedback, especially if she is someone who learns best with human interaction.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 8:58PM UTC
I understand your concerns but may I suggest you back off a pinch and give her time to acclimate. Hovering and picking at EVERYTHING is going to drive her to quit and is it worth it? Do you want a name for yourself and your company? Sorry if it sounds harsh.
maybe she was considered proficient in Excel at her last job. Possibly you are asking her to do something she never had to do or innocently forgot how to do because she has not had to do it in a while. You say it’s basic knowledge but someone else may not feel the same.
if you want her to respond to your “how to” emails then tell her because I personally would not expect any of the employees I manage to respond to that kind of email. I actually would never send an email like that.
with my team I do weekly check in’s with new employees for the first 90 days. It is a safe place to give and receive feedback. Those weekly check ins have helped me improve and helped new employees. Right now you may have her scared to ask questions. I would encourage you to team her up with a mentor so she’s not intimidated and feels safe asking.
Professional correspondence is important and hopefully that can be corrected.
AnonymousAugust 4,2023 at 9:40PM UTC
I’ve always thought that as long as someone is reliable snd responsible that programs such as excel can be learned.
Learning excel is one thing. If she isn’t capable of writing in a professional way, that’s not the kind of thing that is easily taught.
Is she willing to learn excel? Does she know proper English? If not, it’s best to say goodbye now. Don’t try to fit a square leg into a round hole. There are plenty of applicants now who likely possess the skills needed to success.
i give strong contenders for that kind of position 2 tests. Not involved. I give them a spreadsheet and ask them to do a few things. I give them 3 paragraphs that have mistakes and ask them to find and fix them.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:37AM UTC
My inclination would be to replace your administrative assistant because her skills are extremely deficient.
If you want to provide her with additional training for two weeks or a month’s time and see if this produces improvement, you have the prerogative to do so.
That said, it makes sense to dismiss an employee during the first 90 days of employment, which is typically considered a probationary period.
This also might be kinder to your employee, given that she does not have the skills to be effective at the job.
One more point: if you let your employee go, reflect on what changes you can make in your
recruiting for this position, so that you hire a candidate with the credentials you desire.
Julie HagerAugust 5,2023 at 10:46AM UTC
She lied-! No need to be kind
1st 90 days is MAJOR probationary time and she should have been on her BEST.
Shelly EdwardsAugust 5,2023 at 1:45AM UTC
She lied on her resume and during the interview process which is a big red flag. She doesn’t have the basic computer and business skills that the role requires which is strike two. Now she has given away a discount without authorization, that is strike three. It’s time to cut her loose. Hopefully your next hire will have the appropriate skills. You may want to ask some skills based questions for the next interviews just as a precaution.
Julie HagerAugust 5,2023 at 10:44AM UTC
She lied
Period
I lost jobs because of these liars - I am SICK TO DEATH of these people
I got fired cold because (its all I could come up with!) someone didn't like me-! I live in at-will employment state. Yet these lying sax get get the jobs I should have
FIRE THE LIAR
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 11:09AM UTC
Been in your position...I totally get it. COMPLETELY. Sick of the entitled liars I have witnessed first hand that I have seen
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:10PM UTC
She can’t even write properly. I would fire her immediately!
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:40PM UTC
I think you should have a conversation with her in person. Inform her of the dos and don'ts. Let her know that she lied on her application. Normally when a person lie on their application, it's an automatic dismissal. Let know her But if you really need someone now. Offer her to take training, i.e., letter writing, how to navigate through excel, proper etiquette to sending emails, etc. Give her a time frame of completion.
AnonymousAugust 7,2023 at 2:12AM UTC
Who knows maybe she thinks she is proficient in Excel. Some people think to type into a cell might be enough. When you said she didn't capitalize the first word of the sentence and didn't end the sentence with a period, I thought maybe she is only use to texting ... What is missing in the original description of the problem is (a) how old is she, (b) is she from the United States (c) did you do a education background check to see if she has a degree (d) did you check her prior work references ...
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:42PM UTC
Lesson learned. This is sad from both perspectives. You tried to give an employee a chance and the employee probably desperately needed the job which is why they misrepresented their skills. All that said, it's not working out. I would provide her with a short-term written plan to acquire the necessary skills AND demonstrate them proficiently and consistently. If that doesn't work, let her go. The worst thing you can do is hire someone else to perform her role while she's still there. When/if you hire her replacement, you should consider revamping the hiring process to include written samples using specific scenarios that you provide with a 24 to 48 hour turnaround time. This gives you a greater chance of ensuring that the capabilities are her own and not someone else's.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 2:34PM UTC
Agreed - instead of a 24 to 48 hour turnaround time for a writing sample, I would implement a collaborative conversation in the interview process; providing real world examples and have candidates discuss how they would work through particular situation’s using Microsoft office tools, in addition to questions about experience, communicating professionally via email, chat, tools, standard corporate communication, etc
AnonymousAugust 7,2023 at 2:07AM UTC
1-2 hours to provide a written and another 1-2 hours to complete an excel test.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:44PM UTC
I think you know the answer to your own question. She does not have the skills to do the job - and she is not interested in upskilling. I would not waste another minute of your time and just fire her. You should be focused on your business not on this issue. Act now not later!
maria roseAugust 5,2023 at 6:59PM UTC
But firing this individual at this point is only creating more gaps in the business staffing issue. The problem is twofold, the business needs someone in that position and they are expecting the person in that position to immediately take over the role that someone else had for 2.5 years before leaving. So the question is how long is enough time to allow the new hire to fit into the workforce if you are not giving them immediate and constant training feedback. If you are going to fire, then also evaluate your hiring selection process too
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 12:44PM UTC
Most employers use the 30/90 day probation period on new hires. If you're going to end up losing money it's not worth it. Give her the time but if she doesn't do anything to improve, you'll have to cut your losses.
NikkiAugust 5,2023 at 1:03PM UTC
She was probably hoping to " fake it until you make it" in hopes of having a better paying job; as most employers won't hire unless you have experience but how do you get experience of no one will hire you? If she's doing well otherwise maybe you should teach her how to do the things she's lacking in. Who knows, it may make a huge difference in someone's life. I will forever be greatful to the person who gave me a chance at bartending. I didn't graduate highschool and had a child at 15. That person forever gave me the ability to take care of my children, ive been able to feed and cloth and house my boys independently if she had not given me a chance I don't know where I'd be right now but there's surely not a lot of high paying jobs for female, highschool dropouts.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 1:37PM UTC
All she needs to learn excel is access to google. Your situations are not the same.
NikkiAugust 6,2023 at 12:40AM UTC
I didn't say our situations were the same. No two situations are ever the same. I was simply identifying with her or relaying a " could be" type of situation. Ours doesn't need to be the same in order for me to feel a sence of compassion for some of the reasons why, the person may have lied.
quatrez bellAugust 5,2023 at 2:24PM UTC
I agree. Give her a chance if she’s willing too improve.
rgstaffing@bellsouth.netAugust 5,2023 at 9:43PM UTC
Just FYI Peter Jennings dropped out of highschool in grade 9.
Shelby CAugust 5,2023 at 1:26PM UTC
Since the industry standard is 30/90, I would let her go at 30 days. You're not going to be able to train her into what you need because, sadly, she lacks the education or doesn't take feedback well.
Chere EstrinAugust 5,2023 at 3:34PM UTC
You need to go through the termination possibilities with her with three warnings and dates by which she is expected to improve. If she can’t do the job. You are not doing your business any good.
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 5:23PM UTC
In our university hiring process it is now fairly standard procedure to include writing samples and/or tests of required skills (e.g. writing exercise, excel/accounting tasks, prioritization exercise). Typically, these are conducted in person after the panel interview (typically a 1st or 2nd interview), thus prior to recommendation for final interview(s).
Jos WallerAugust 5,2023 at 6:28PM UTC
Normally, I would suggest that she be given 3 months probation to learn the role. However, it sounds like she lied on her resume and therefore should be let go. I like the idea of having testing as part of the interview process, and should solve your problem with getting your next hire.
Deneane Jones-ColesAugust 6,2023 at 12:34PM UTC
Agree and I would remind her to take excel classes before applying for this type of job!
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 6:36PM UTC
What a pickle! I don't necessarily agree or disagree with any of the comments below as this is a very interesting situation, to say the least. First, I would give her the full 90 days as a professional courtesy. Not only will this allow her to hopefully learn the role, but will also give you some perspective on what you really need from this position, should you need to hire someone else. At the end of the day, if you have to let her go it's understandable, but wouldn't you want to know that you did every thing you could to try to train them? Isn't that what most companies are looking for? Someone to mold to what they need? In addition, if your mind is already made up, it sounds like it could be expectation bias. https://www.thebehavioralscientist.com/glossary/expectation-bias If she's made a couple of mistakes, maybe all you're expecting now is mistakes? Or maybe she is terrible! But it's worth taking a step back and evaluating your own feelings. Did the person in the position before have a similar start? What was their learning curve like? Also, what was your hiring process like? If they were the best candidate in your search are you really likely to find better when the role has already been vacant for so long? No wrong or right answers, but I see why this is so difficult as there are pros and cons to each choice, and no one here really knows what the best choice is for you and your business. Try to stay positive and best of luck!
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 6:40PM UTC
https://www.thebehavioralscientist.com/glossary/expectation-bias this!
AnonymousAugust 5,2023 at 6:39PM UTC
About grammar - Grammarly has a free version and is sooooooooooooo useful in a professional setting! I highly recommend this for all employees not just those struggling. Many companies that have outbound email and chat employees now require that they use Grammarly in every interaction.
rgstaffing@bellsouth.netAugust 5,2023 at 9:45PM UTC
You probably under hired. You should be paying $50,000-70,000 for those skills in an administrative assistant.
PeggyAugust 5,2023 at 11:03PM UTC
What worries me the most is that she does not acknowledge the emails. I think the next step is an in-person interview with a witness. You need to document document document!
That way if you decide to replace her you can.
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 10:57AM UTC
Yes!! Document! Document! Document!!
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 9:07PM UTC
Not sure why she needs to document. This is a brand new employee with less than 30 days on the job making major mistakes that show poor judgement and falsification of her resume. Terminate her employment and move on to the next person.
AnonymousAugust 8,2023 at 5:18PM UTC
Always always document! Even though less than 30 days, the employee still can file a complaint or seek other action. If you have documentation you protect yourself and the company.
D.Elizabeth NathanielAugust 6,2023 at 1:29AM UTC
It won’t take much time to learn MS office and punctuations in her write ups . If she is sound enough in other aspects of office then let her get the hint through some subordinate to hint her the way of her doings .
you already waited few weeks in selecting the candidate, again you have to keep ideal your business for few more weeks . Instead of that Let her rectify herself through your hinting and rectification . These are the small things infront of her experience that guided you to recruit her . She will be in the line of rectification by your small hints . Get her exposed to the ‘Excel Sheets ‘ and simply explain the need of learning - she definitely learns within no time .
mall the best
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 11:01AM UTC
Yikes!! This is a tough one! But, at the same given point and time, you need to do you! If you feel you have given her the full parameters for the expectations of the postion, to begin with, and continue coaching without follow through on her end....then, cut the cord.
I feel like every state is, "at will", for both parties (I could be wrong), you have every right, to execute what is going to be best for yourself. This, seems like a situation that will proceedingly, get worse overtime, if proper measures aren't taken. It's tough, situation to be in, but, it's essential for your business to have the ability to continue thriving (and not worry about this)/(with all due respect)
GirlBossanova934974August 6,2023 at 1:19PM UTC
As a small business owner myself and someone who used EXCEL for 20 plus years in Finance Departments at Fortune 50 companies, I don't think you have that much of a problem. First off, an ADMIN Assistant at any company is not a critical role. I think the problem is that you underpaid for the position. If it were me, I would figure out HOW MUCH of EXCEL this Admin Assistant needs to use, send her an old EXCEL file, and SPEND an HOUR or TWO running through an assignment. Step by step! She doesn't need how to figure fancy VLOOKUPs and 10 layer embedded conditional IF statements here. Keep it basic. As for the writing part, again, send over a few executive memos, run through them, and point out the necessary points. In the end, you will have a good employee with the skills you really need and not have to start all over again!
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 11:06PM UTC
What makes you think I have underpaid for this position? At our company this role is extremely critical. It is a sales/office coordinator role and the right hand of myself, the owner. Her resume said proficient in Excel,, so that's what I expected. And also said she's a college graduate so I expect her to have proper writing skills. I would have paid less if I thought I'd have to train someone on these "basic" and expected skills.
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 2:16PM UTC
For me the biggest red flag is the discount that was offered. Would love to know her rational for that. Definitely have a sit down and discuss that plus your other concerns. Does anyone else have a concern about her?
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 11:01PM UTC
There is a non-profit group who puts on a festival and we reduce the price to fit into their budget. This is a donation, she was aware of this and for some reason thought it was the same as giving a discount to a for profit company! We do not give "discounts" to regular for-proft businesses.
AnonymousAugust 8,2023 at 5:22PM UTC
Sounds like an honest mistake then.
Christina LibrettiAugust 6,2023 at 9:37PM UTC
You could have a meeting with her directly and schedule time to set up some training for improvement and discuss the do's and don'ts of your business. If you don't think that would help or don't feel she is the proper fit in your company than start looking for a replacement. Good luck
AnonymousAugust 6,2023 at 11:23PM UTC
More details: I give this person feedback, however I've learned that she doesn't listen well and instead likes to assume that she knows what I'm going to say or what I want her to do. I've had to ask her not to interrupt me and to correct her assumptions on a few occasions. I've told her that since she is new I'd rather she ask me. I think she wants to prove to me so much that she can do the job and wants to be pro-active. She has a confident, take-charge attitude and she does do some things correctly. I do plan on having a more formal one-on-one discussion with her to review what I need to see improved. The other times I gave feedback was in the middle of a task, so I think a dedicated discussion may be a better strategy, so she can take it more seriously. Since some of the responses thinks that I may be underpaying for this role, the position pays $50K - $52K base along with a potential for a bonus.
AnonymousAugust 7,2023 at 1:55AM UTC
You are looking for someone that has a college degree and is proficient in Excel. Proficientcy in anything requires years of experience which would be a more expensive hire. If you decide not to continue her employment then the next "right hand" candidate should be tested prior to hiring. Do you ever call employer references? Usually new employers ask for the 2-3 previous jobs. Any new employee requires some training. They could have had 5 years of experience as an admin but every employer runs their business differently, even if it is in the same industry.
Silvia K AAugust 7,2023 at 2:23AM UTC
Lying in a resume is grounds for termination, if the critical requirements are not met.
I would not keep her around.
AnonymousAugust 7,2023 at 6:07PM UTC
While I see your point, things like appropriate Excel skills can be left to interpretation without an assessment. It’s possible the applicant thought she met the minimum.
Al JohnstonAugust 7,2023 at 7:49PM UTC
She didn't know how to use the SUM function. I don't know how she could possibly have interpreted her skills to be more than beginner.
AnonymousAugust 7,2023 at 10:57PM UTC
Many people use Excel in ways not related to financial calculations and never touch the functions. I know it’s strange, but I believe the applicant didn’t know what she doesn’t know, especially if there were no specifics provided and/or no skills assessment given.
Al JohnstonAugust 8,2023 at 9:03PM UTC
Fair enough.
Valerie RiegerAugust 7,2023 at 1:38PM UTC
I would recommend a skills assessment. Temp agencies may be able to provide the assessment for a fee. If the assessment shows that she lacks the needed skills - skills that you don't have the time to for her to gain - I would recommend letting her go. You may want to consider using an agency to do a skills assessment on future candidates. You may also want to consider using an agency to fill the position, making sure they know the requirements and are able to screen and test for them.
rgstaffing@bellsouth.netAugust 7,2023 at 7:44PM UTC
More than likely, the candidate did not have advanced skills and the employer was not paying enough to get advanced skills. For those skills, the company should be paying $50,000-70,000.
AnonymousAugust 8,2023 at 12:16PM UTC
Possibly she believes she is an expert at excel. She may feel her writing skills are perfect. Not any of this means she lied on her resume. You can fix those issues and train her assuming she is trainable and you truly are a good trainer. We all think we are good trainers but I can tell you most people are not.
No matter what the experience and skills are of an individual, you can never drop them into a position and expect perfection. You need to train them to do things your way. Train them to understand the company way of things.
The concern you may want to hone in on is her inability to handle feedback. That is going to always be an issue and could make it hard to get through to her. If possible have someone else meet with her, call them a mentor. See how she takes feedback from that individual then give her a few days to a week to see if she improves.
AnonymousAugust 8,2023 at 6:45PM UTC
I think this is great advice!
AnonymousAugust 9,2023 at 6:45PM UTC
She lied. CHARACTER ISSUE. Cut losses before other issues surface.