I am going to ask the community here this.

I am going to ask the community here this. I lost my job in June of this year, they fired me they said they felt that after 4 years it’s not working out. I did my best working for them as an accounts payable associate. Adjusted to changes the best I could. We even transitioned to a new software system and I did my best with the transition their expectation was that I should have gotten all of it after having one month worth of training and then launching fully a month later, six months after the transition they left me go. It’s taken a hit to my confidence I have had several interviews since. When they ask me what happened I tell I was laid off and I didn’t see it coming. I never say I was fired. Also there are some gaps in my resume but only because I was looking for work and it took some time to land the next role. How do I tackle the question of what happened with my former employer? How do some of you explain gaps in your work history and how do you tackle a future employer asking about the gaps in your employment history? I’ve been considering a career change I’m 38, and I don’t know what to do anymore. I feel like I’ve been sort of blacklisted as some future employers may reach out to my old employer. Any advice would be appreciated.

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  1. Anonymous

    Ask a friend to call for a Was there a reason you didn't adjust well to the new program the company was using? It sounds like there was adequate reading.

    Also have a friend call to get a reference and find out what is being said about you. Then make your decision on a career change.

  2. Anonymous

    Regarding gaps in your resume, I would only list the years for your work history when you held the position and not include the months. That should cover any gaps that are less than one year. If you have a gap of more than one year try to find something that can either be listed on your resume (volunteer work? consulting even for free?) or state something like you were taking care of family, etc.

  3. Anonymous

    Thank you I like that advice. I will take that into consideration. Honestly the gaps were me looking for my next role and I did take an Intro to accounting class as well but that was when I had a whole year of a gap. I will take this all into consideration.

  4. Patricia

    Have you listed the accounting class on your resume for that year? That would show the hiring manager your commitment to gaining new knowledge and skills. If you're studying full time, you might not have the capacity to gain employment, so listing education completed or in progress can help you explain your current/past unemployment.

  5. Anonymous

    Letting you go after 4 years with no warning or process is harsh. I'm sorry this is happening to you. One option is to hire an attorney to negotiate severance pay and a contract for silence on both parties. If the company had an HR department and policies, I'm guessing they didn't follow the rules. Another decision is what is next for you. A settlement may give you the funds to move forward. I know this is hard, but keep going. Eventually you will be in a good place. Took me about 3 years.

  6. Anonymous

    It doesn't sound like they let her go without warning. It sounds like she is telling future employers that she was laid off and it came out of nowhere....

    How she starts off her post, I guarantee knew she was struggling and that her getting termed was coming. Especially if she couldn't adjust to the new software. In AP, the software you use is essential in being able to perform your job. If you don't understand it then you won't be successful.

  7. Anonymous

    I am not afraid of technology. I did my best to learn the new software system. despite being told that I couldn't always contact the dedicated help line from said software system that I would need to figure things out. Which I did not listen to that and I reached out to the helpline as much as I could. I saw both my bosses struggling with the system themselves and while telling me I should've had everything down. There should always be a learning curve and time given to adjust to a new software system. We were all figuring things out as we went along. I worked along side a team and I was solely the AP person. I am telling future employers that I was laid off because that sounds better than being fired. I understood it to the best of my knowledge while teaching others certain steps if they asked. I'm just saying but thank you.

  8. Anonymous

    I did not get severance. They fired me so no severance. I got unemployment though and that has helped but I would like to be gainfully employed. Thank you for that though but I don't think I can pursue that, it's just best to move on. Thank you for the support.

  9. GirlBossanova934974

    These days, many people have slid under the door somehow and got themselves into management positions. Retirements etc have led to some very questionable promotional and hiring decisions into the management ranks. These people believe in hiring and firing at the drop of a hat. That is why there has been such high turnover in the last few years. That being said, I would NOT take anything to heart in what your last employer said about you or inferred about you. When you are asked about your separation from your last company, I would say "LAYOFF" and end it right there. End it! I WOULD FOCUS on the NEW accounting systems you learned and how fast you learned it. Gaps are not serious issues these days unless we are talking years of non employment. A few months here and there is no big deal. It is all about FOCUSING on your current skillsets and what you bring to the table. BTW, this has happened to me in the past. I knew the people I was reporting to, weren't worth much in the overall scheme of things. Back in they day, you had to get an MBA from a decent school to get into a certain level of management. These days, It has become the blind leading the blind. So one just has to shake it off and focus on your NEW JOB! FINALLY, your old employer is not going to tell new employers anymore about you except for the times you worked there. PS: I held a CPA for several years and earned an MS in Accounting from a top school.

  10. Anonymous

    Thank you I will take that all into consideration. appreciate the advice.

  11. Anonymous

    Just tell people that changes were made within the organization and the the loss of your job was part those changes. Also, companies can only verify your time with them. There should be a number that the new company would call to verify this information. If references are needed, use professional references that you trust. Ask previous bosses for permission.

  12. Marcia Smith

    This is good - like this advice!

  13. Anonymous

    Exactly! No need to say "fired" "let go" or "laid off"

    SOME employers will even allow a "lay off" to preserve the employee's ability to find future employment. It happened at my workplace recently. The person was not good at the job and received negative feedback to the VP that she was "not helpful", so the VP let the employee go with a "lay off" stating the position would be revamped to a position the employee did not qualify for.

  14. Anonymous

    I will take this into consideration. Thank you.

  15. Anonymous

    Can I make a suggestion, please stop telling hiring managers that you were laid off? First, it's not the truth and hiring managers know that. Unless you were part of an entire team or a department, typically at your level/age you were selected to be laid off because of performance....so it's essentially the same as being fired.

    I imagine after 3.5 years you were very good at using your old system. If that's the case then here is what I think you do...go to indeed, linkedin etc. and type in the software name that you were using and see if you find companies using that software hiring for AP positions. Apply to those positions and if you get an interview and they ask why you left you say something like this "After 3.5 years of working at Z company, they introduced a new software, and after taking training and using it for 6 months, I realized that the role was no longer a fit so my company and I mutually decided to part ways. Up until that point we were using H software and I had become a subject matter expert in it. That's why I'm so excited about joining your team, because I know that with my expertise in H software I can come in and hit the ground running."

    Regarding the gaps, it's not something that's looked at positively unless you're taking care of a sick relative or starting a business. Why did your leave that company to cause the gap? Answer that question first and then talk about what you did during the gap, trainings, job fair, a gap job, etc.

    What I would recommend for you is to find a contract position. The bar is sometimes so low they just need bodies, so get one of those and work your butt off to get converted but simultaneously look for FTE positions. So by the time you are interviewing for the FTE position you want you can say you are leaving your current position because it's a contract role.

  16. Anonymous

    I was just going to say this .. AP is a relatively entry level job sometimes it can even be done by the CFO .. AP can be automated if you didn't know..

  17. Anonymous

    You couldn’t be more wrong about accounts payable being entry level, It is one of the backbone depts in an organization.

    Having been the supervisor of the AP department of a very, very large company,

    I can tell you from purchase orders to matched costs and extensions to be checked, budgets and estimates that have to match up with the price, very detail oriented people need to be in these roles,

    so please don’t diminish an accounts payable person.

  18. Anonymous

    Absolutely I've been in the AP game for years. I don't want entry level I have like 10 plus years of experience under my belt. All the experience I have collected in AP is very important from the top down and so much detail goes into everything an AP Associate or personnel does. but I think from me switching careers perspective I get that it can be automated but at the same time it's not really. There are kinks even in automation. I appreciate the support.

  19. Anonymous

    I get that but they're so much more to AP. Even in automation there are kinks in that as well. But I see what you're saying if I considered a career change.

  20. Anonymous

    This is excellent advice. There's only one thing that I would include:

    When I was in HR, people that were previously fired from another company could be hired through a process that involved an additional interview from management and an expanded background check. It was essentially a risk assessment for management so they could see if the risks outweighed the potential benefits. I conducted hundreds of what I termed "security" interviews when the CSO was out. We understood that good people were often fired because stuff happens.

    We permanently barred people from employment if we discovered they told us a lie. They're middle names in our tracking system was "DNH" (Do Not Hire) and there was a note from me or a member of my team stating why they were not eligible for employment.

    Honesty is always best.

  21. Anonymous

    So sorry this happened to you. There could be a number of reasons, many of them not really valid, you were laid off. If you think you did not pick up the new system well, try to figure out the why and how to move forward on that. I work with IT on new system rollouts, and many times, they’ve purchased the lowest cost package and the new system is nowhere as functional as what was originally pitched to management. They find out the cost with bells and whistles, and end up with something subpar. Otherwise, it’s good to remember that employers, just like employees that are leaving, don’t always give you the real why. It could have been a convenient excuse. Some things are out of our control.

    I would go with layoffs, everyone knows what that means. And, as far as the gaps go, I would go with job hunting - it takes time to find a new position. From there, concentrate on marketing your skills and experience.

  22. Anonymous

    Thank you for the support and advice. Appreciate it.

  23. Chrishogg

    1) I've been fired and laid off, both more than once. They are different. If you've been fired but say laid off you're lying, and nothing good ultimately comes from that (and I think most employers will figure that out rather quickly).

    2) Apparently they fired you after 6 months with the new system, but it seems to me that you're trying to "spin" it to make it sound like they said it's not working out relative to the entire 4 years. See 1) above.

    3) Much (most?) of the previous advice you've gotten here, again in my opinion, is bogus. For example, telling employers your departure was a "mutual decision" is simply not true ... you were fired, and that's never a mutual decision. And leaving months off of jobs, especially for your most recent role, is almost always interpreted (rightly or wrongly), as trying to hide something.

    4) About gaps, "I was job searching" is (I assume) an honest answer, and especially since COVID, everybody understands how that works (well, almost everybody ... if an employer doesn't "get it" these days you may want to seriously consider whether you want to work there).

    5) What to say when they ask why you left this job? If it were me, given what you've shared here, I'd say something like, "The company got a new software system, I received four weeks of training, and did my best to make it work, but it just didn't happen. I think I was on track to get it figured out, but they fired me before I was able to make it happen. Is there anything else I can tell you?" But this is just me, and you need to figure out what to say that is you.

    6) You need, first, to be sure that you have the skills, experience, and knowledge required to do the kind of job you're searching for, and second, must figure out how to communicate that effectively to potential employers.

  24. Anonymous

    This is a horrible, negative answer. Do not ever get into the advice-giving business. Never! You suck at it.

  25. Marcia Smith

    I also disagree. I would NEVER tell an interviewer that I was fired from a job for not performing up to the company's standards....

  26. Chrishogg

    Interesting take, Marcia. If you were fired for not meeting the company's standards, as in this case ... and you were committed to telling people the truth (you may not be) ... then may I ask exactly how you would answer this employer's question about why you left your last job?

  27. Anonymous

    Nope, chrishogg!!

  28. Kathryn

    If you got fired unjustly file for unemployment you will get it. Mine fired me and I got unemployment because they did not follow their own steps. Laid off and let go are two different things. Currently in my job hunt I just say you can't contact them. Linked in , Remotive, indeed. All have remote jobs. Good luck and I hope you find something. As I hope i do too.

  29. Anonymous

    nope, Kathryn.

  30. Kathryn

    Yes I got it had ot got a phone hearing and I won. Most do as long as they participate been in HR 20 years you lose if you dont try.

  31. Anonymous

    I hope you get a great job soon, too, Kathyrn!

  32. Anonymous

    Hi there, I'm so sorry about your job. I have certainly been there and, yes, one of the biggest wounds is the hit to confidence. There have been many accounting professionals fired or treated with disrespect by people who don't understand the work and realistic expectations about transition. Now for how to explain:

    do not volunteer information not asked - don't over explain;

    keep your answer positive, but don't be dishonest. Just as you can tell about others, others can tell if you aren't being real. An example on what you could say:

    " I worked with a great team, learned a lot, gained valuable experience in managing AP. The company made cuts after reorganizing so I am looking forward to applying my skills in a new role where I can really add value to the team." Something like that. People like positivity.

    You will get a great job and you deserve it. Pulling for you. It will be ok!

  33. Anonymous

    Thank you! I think I am going to use that exactly the way you put it. To be honest sometimes my mind turns to mush when I am interviewing I forget details that I rehearsed or had written down. Thank you for that. Appreciate it.

  34. Anonymous

    I know. I get so nervous on interviews! You're going to do great! Practice saying things out loud so you don't sound rehearsed. I think it helps! ?

  35. Marcia Smith

    I know it has been hard and been a devastating blow to your self-esteem - but don't let other people determine your value. You are worthy of a great job and you can find one if you can stay upbeat and work hard, because the job market is brutal these days.

    I would not offer any information about your previous job unless asked. You can always say "it was time to move on to a better opportunity" and leave it at that. You aren't saying anything about how that happened.

    Don't worry about employment gaps - as most people have them these days. Some employers might ask about them, but it really is not a big deal as SO MANY people have them. If a potential employer makes a big deal about it - then that is a HUGE sign that you don't want to work there.

    Below are some good ways to respond to work gaps:

    Personal growth

    Caretaker - for children, spouse, parents

    Education

    Volunteering

    COVID shutdown or loss of work during COVID

    Relocation or move

    Here is a good website: https://www.freshminds.co.uk/candidates/skills-hub/how-to-answer-the-interview-question-about-an-employment-gap?source=google.com

    Write down the questions or potential questions and write out your responses and practice them.

    Stay confident

    You got this!!

  36. Jackie Beecher

    Super advice ? I couldn't have put it better myself & from a quick look at the website link, am confident it will help our community member asking the question. I'm keeping everything crossed for future interview success for that person ?

  37. Anonymous

    Love, love, love your response, Marcia!!

  38. Anonymous

    Thank you I appreciate that so much honestly. I just felt really rejected this past Friday I had an interviewed virtually and the woman pressed on about gaps in my resume and I'm sitting there thinking why did she even consider me in the first place if she does not like the gaps or "is concerned" about them and you are right about the future employer part. That's not what I would want from a future employer it's kind of a red flag. That's what had led me to post here originally just seeking advice from others in this community. Thank you Marcia for that and I will check that website out. I'm starting to feel better.

  39. Lisa Greenberg

    You have to really wonder about some of the interviewers these days. I had an interview over the phone where the person conducting the interview spent the whole time listing the reasons she couldn't hire me. Then when I questioned her why she even bothered to schedule the interview, she stated that she felt I was "very angry." It's not you, it's that a lot of places that are presumably hiring have no idea what they are doing or why they are doing it.

  40. Explorer539760

    I’m in Talent Acquisition and I’d like to apologize on behalf of my sector for the terrible candidate experience you had. I cringe when I hear about interview techniques of some in the field. Glad you had the confidence to know that was not you. THEY were a poor interviewer

  41. Marcia Smith

    It's not your fault sister...but thank you :)

  42. Marcia Smith

    oh wow - that is just CRAZY!!! I would not have stayed on the phone.

  43. Marcia Smith

    Yes feel better - and feel the big community hug you are getting here. You don't want to work at a place that is going to grill you - or anyone else - about employment gaps in this day and age with COVID, family needing caretakers, and massive layoffs occurring almost all the time. Run - don't walk - from any potential employer that grills you about your employment gaps

  44. Anonymous

    Pick yourself up dust yourself off and get over it! You are not the first and surely not the last person who was terminated from a company.

    Tackle the first part, why- The best response to a prospective employer is that there was a change in the direction of the department that did not align with your career goals and after 4 years there you decided to leave to full time focus on finding the next step in your career.

    See! doesn't that answer their question and not put you into a defensive position to say why they let you go. They don't need any other details and if they press you then you just tell the prospective new employer what you want to do in your new role. Use the main points in their job description and align your answer to the depth of expertise you bring in those areas.

    Secondly, why not apply for some temp roles perhaps through an agency to try before you buy and check out some other companies.

    You might find that dipping slowly back into things might make you feel better about you.

    As for references when you get to that point use the dates of employment from your former employer and maybe a peer in the team that you keep in touch with or other. It's likely that the company will not share any negativity because they won't want the legal exposure.

    Chin up, this too shall pass...

  45. Anonymous

    Thank you appreciated the advice. Will take all of that into consideration. My mind sometimes turns to mush during the interview process and I end up saying things to them I shouldn't especially about why my time ended with my last employer. Thank you.

  46. Anonymous

    Happy to help. Less is more in some situations and this one calls for discretion. you got this sister!

  47. Carrie Anderson Frohreich

    I agree with the temping for a bit. That company sounds like it is turning in a bad direction to let someone go after 4 yrs. It is hard to lose a job, so no matter how many people say chin up or dust yourself off, it takes a little time to get to that point. Temp services want people with experience and it is a great way to land a permanent position. Don't mention you were "let go". Just tell them the company had a transition change and that you were ready for a change as well. Get a good job coach at the employment office also and yes, by all means collect unemployment for the time you need. Employers don't really frown on gaps of employment so much anymore. Four years is a reasonable amount of time to have on your resume before you go looking for another job. I have a feeling you won't be unemployed long. There are more jobs out there than ever before. Good luck!

  48. Anonymous

    Dear one, You can just say they reorganized the company. I was fired after 18 years at one job & over 50 yrs old. It was 2009 (recession). A very tough year. It took me from June to End of November to clear my name and get them to agree to severance. I also received unemployment for the whole year before landing my new job.

    2009 to 2010 brought Very few interviews, and none near my pay grade. Yet 364 days after that job, God blessed me with another better one where I loved it for 10 years. Then in 2020, they reorganized that hospital and everyone in my dept (Administration) was let go or placed in other positions. I lasted 2 years in the other position....absolutely hated it. Left and found an even better job within a month in 3/2020, just 2 weeks before covid shut down and at 65 yrs old, with a 15k more per yr salary and an incredible boss. Still loving my job and the people. And now promoted plus making 8.50 more per hour. Hang in there and bring your best self to interviews. Less than 2 year gaps are not abnormal in any resume. Don't offer unless they ask, and again, just relay there was a change in leadership and reorganization. Interviewers understand. And never stop learning. Take every opportunity to further your education, even if a seminar or on line learning. You've got this!

  49. Anonymous

    Thank you I appreciate that. I won't stop looking just wondering what I should and should not do. Thank you for the hope and will look into classes to further my development and growth.

  50. Anonymous

    I was one of 18 people let go in 2008, at the age of 50. It took me several months to land a job, hundreds of miles away, for $30k less. This was also a reorganization - middle managers were laid off, replaced by individual contributors who were paid half of what we were paid, and the top brass all got big raises. Ugh. There was age discrimination but the severance agreement prevented lawsuits.

    Then I was let go from that job at age 63, and it took a year to find a job that paid $10k less. There was a reorganization there, but also a new person at the top who hated me. There were illegalities, but I took the severance money and agreed not to sue because I just wanted to move on from that toxic environment.

  51. Jackie Beecher

    Your response warmed my heart & I'm genuinely happy for your happy outcome☘ Thank you Universe for the silver lining in this looong lasting cloud ?

  52. Anonymous

    The market is bad right now, but regardless of what happened, you’re in an ok position. You were there for 4 YEARS not 4 months!

    I’ve been looking for nearly 2 years now. There were 2 really toxic temp jobs last year.

    Then I realized I had to stop taking toxic peoples’ advice. Like, take any job. Doesn’t matter. It is your fault, you’re just not social enough. That is what you want to do?!? You’d be god awful at it.

    Find what you want to do and go for it. If it is not in your current industry, maybe that makes it better all the way around.

    I’m not saying it will be easy. However, better to look forward rather than behind!

  53. Anonymous

    I couldn't agree more and thank you for this. Absolutely right.

  54. Anonymous

    Say the company went through a reorganization. There's a member here who has graciously offered a complimentary career coaching consultation. Go to her site yes write, check out the resources and email her that you're a member of fairygodboss who wants to take advantage of the complimentary consultation.

  55. Anonymous

    Would you mind sharing the contact information for the complimentary coaching consultation? I tired to find it but couldn't.

  56. Erica Lanyon

    I may not be a career coach, but I have more than 20 years of experience in the industry, including 15 years as a hiring manager. I've personally experienced being let go before, so I understand how it feels. If you'd like, I'm available for a phone call (no charge) to help you overcome the emotional challenges of your sudden exit and guide you on how to get back on track. Sometimes all you need is someone to lend an ear. I think you can connect with me on here.

  57. Jackie Beecher

    Kudos for your kind gesture ? You've made an Irish fairygodboss member smile☘

  58. Anonymous

    There's an economic downturn. The employers know this. You're not being blacklisted. This happens to people all the time.

  59. Anonymous

    Interviewers won't usually ask about a previous job's reason to let you go. I worried about this, too, and it turned out that saying I was laid off (I said, and I believe, that the pandemic was a factor).

    For your self-esteem, especially since adaptability may be the factor you would want to be able to brag about, try temp work. It's not like the old days, but if you have office skills, having to learn new systems quickly and adapt to different environments will build your self-esteem and give your next employer confidence in your ability to get started.

  60. Melissa

    Never lie and never trash your ex employer. It's the same as sitting on a first date listening to a person complain about their ex, NO ONE wants to hear that. I would simply say you were laid off amongst others at your old company. Say that you are grateful for the time you worked there as they taught you X, Y, Z...etc. etc. etc. Most places do not give references other than to say that, yes, you worked there from date to date and how much you made. No one wants to get into legal trouble and many places do not even bother to call. Some do but I've encountered more that do not. Keep in mind that this is a job FOR YOU. You have to like it and want to work there. To stop myself from being too nervous at interviews I often almost pretend I am interviewing them! It helps a little and I get questions about the company I want answered. Good luck, be kind to yourself - almost everyone loses a job at some point. Melissa :)

  61. Kathy

    After 4 years to say "You're not working out" doesn't ring as truth. There is probably more going on behind the scenes then what you've been told or are aware.

    There is good advice in the previous comments. Good luck!

  62. Sherry Carson

    First of all, all that a past employer is really allowed to confirm is the dates you worked for them, not much else. And you can always give the HR department as your reference and not the manager. The other thing I am curious about was the training you received. Did they ever let you know that you were not catching on? What did they do to be sure you had the tools you needed to be successful? If they do not have a documented interactive process with you, and you didn't have any issues in your evaluations, then you could possibly have a wrongful termination case. If you just want to move on, you could always point out that those times of transition were a learning experience and has allowed you to master adaptability skills and flow with change.

  63. Krystin Morgan

    Just to share, this actually varies by state (in the US). Many states allow companies to provide any information they want during reference checks, so long as it's factual and true. There *are* a few states that prohibit details beyond dates, but that's fairly rare. However, there are a lot of companies whose *policy* is just to share dates/title/etc. but that isn't based in the law.

  64. Anonymous

    I guess your * mean that employers do not follow the law! I am in a state where it is illegal to give more than the dates of employment and would you hire them again?

  65. Kimberly

    Iv'e never had this issue before but I'd just tell them after the company made the transition they felt as if you were not adjusting as fast as they thought you should have been. That doesn't say you were not a good worker, some of us just need more time than other to adjust to new systems especially after doing things a certain way for so long. Best of luck on your job search!

  66. Anonymous

    I would not think it's worth a lawsuit and bad press to blacklist someone. It doesn't make sense. It's illegal, it's immoral and the press would have a field day. Trust me, things like personal blacklists are ticking time bombs.

  67. Johanna Mason

    3 suggestions; 1) when asked respond that it's not uncommon for new software to create redundancy in workload, resulting in layoffs. Between you and me, I went through an unsuccessful software transition where the General Mgmt, Mat's Mgr, and 3 others were eliminated!

    2) Do you know of anyone that could do a reference check on that past employer to see how they respond?

    3) REBUILD YOUR CONFIDENCE! try some Youtube free meditations to manifest your inner strength! (seriously! I'm between jobs been over 6 weeks, scary stuff but You need that confidence for your next interview! jpmason311@yahoo.com

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