When is time to seek legal advice, and or ask for a separation package.

35 Comments

1. AnonymousOctober 15,2023 at 6:33AM UTC

   I'm trying to understand why you would think you are due a separation package. Usually companies don't pay an employee to leave at the employee's request/decision.

2. AnonymousOctober 15,2023 at 3:39PM UTC

   Agreed. Unless it is an EEOC action. In that case, the OP now needs legal advice from an attorney representing employee interests. I also agree that going to HR is like going to the police to help you return something you shoplifted, in this case.

3. anon4087October 17,2023 at 12:03AM UTC

   And that is exactly why the OP needs an employment lawyer, right now.

4. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 12:20PM UTC

   I had something similar happen with me. I spoke to the CEO and outside legal counsel and explained what was happening. I had written documentation that I shared. I asked for a package and received one. My manager's behavior was alarming. I took a risk because I was close to getting another job. Now I have 2 months of severance and a new job. Weigh your risk adversity. My situation could have been perceived as just quitting but I told CEO that I would not. He tried to see if there was something that could be done but I indicated the workplace was toxic and there was no path forward. Tread carefully.

5. GirlBossanova934974October 16,2023 at 12:34PM UTC

   Having won a decent six figure settlement from an employer based upon legal action, I can tell you that if you wish to allege unfair treatment outside of an age or racial issue, you are going to have to have a lot of written evidence. Employment lawyers are interested in what THEY CAN PROVE. PROOF requires written evidence in terms of emails, disciplinary notices etc etc. He said. She said will not work.

6. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 12:42PM UTC

   HR is there to protect the company, not employees. Not sure what you mean by unfair treatment, but in general you likely won't get a separation package unless the company is about to do layoffs anyway and you are volunteering, or if they think you otherwise have enough evidence that you've been discriminated against based on race, gender, sexual orientation, age, or pregnancy status and they want to avoid getting sued.

7. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 2:47PM UTC

   So true. The HR person I went to for help with an unqualified manager is now the same person asking me to sign my severance package.

8. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 3:03PM UTC

   Charming.

9. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 2:28PM UTC

   It’s time to seek legal advice anytime you want but unless you experience an adverse employment action, you are not going to get much advice. Unfair treatment is not illegal. You must be experiencing unfair treatment because of a protected characteristic and lose your job as a result. Also, just because you find a lawyer to help doesn’t mean your employer will cooperate. You are better off finding a new job and leaving and saving yourself the mental anguish trying to deal with it. Currently in a lawsuit for discrimination and it’s not a fun process. Good luck!

10. AyianOctober 16,2023 at 2:30PM UTC

    Generally by the tone you're wondering if you need legal advice, it's time to seek it out. Document EVERYTHING, even if it's just writing out what happened on what date and time. Emails and other written communication are more compelling, so if you haven't already, start asking for things in writing. Give any excuse you need for your request.

11. Shelby COctober 16,2023 at 3:27PM UTC

    Generally, if you're asking yourself these types of questions, you should have already reached out. It is NOT too late to start. Here are some important things to remember:

    1) Hire an Attorney on contingency. You're usually going to pay roughly 30% of the winnings and expenses. There are ways you can lower your expenses.

    2) HR is not on your side. They work for the company and ultimately protect its interests - not yours. Don't let the "open doors" and sympathetic ears fool you.

    3) No one at the company is your friend. You can't trust anyone and it can't be perceived that you're receiving favoritism.

    4) You're tougher than you know.

    5) You've got this. Don't let them try to intimidate you. You have just as much of a right to be there as they do.

    6) You are potentially breaking a cycle of abuse

    7) Log and document absolutely EVERYTHING except proprietary documents you could be fired or prosecuted for leaving the building/employment with.

    8) Assume that all company owned devices have key stroke loggers and will be taken away at any moment.

    I wish you the best of luck and hope that things improve soon.

12. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 3:27PM UTC

    Since the police always apply the law, they are NOT neutral. HR always does everything it can to protect the company, especially when they see a lawsuit coming. That was the whole purpose of the metaphor.

13. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 3:36PM UTC

    The minute you think there is a problem that you cannot handle for yourself. Contact your local lawyer referral service- bar association in the US and see if someone will give you a one hour consult for a small fee to discuss your possible case. Alternatively, try the EEOC or FEHA for referrals as well.

14. Paula BrantnerOctober 16,2023 at 3:43PM UTC

    A number of attorneys will do a free consultation or will charge a relatively nominal amount for an hour of their time. https://www.nela.org is the national association of lawyers who represent workers, and there are NELA-affiliated organizations in most states and metro areas. That is the best place to find lawyers who represent *workers* (who are called plaintiffs employment lawyers, not labor lawyers.)

    Employment lawyers may include those who represent employers, so make sure to do your research so you are contacting an attorney who has experience representing workers.

    Prior to meeting with a lawyer, it is useful to write down and organize your thoughts, so you can share your experiences succinctly and use your consultation time wisely.

15. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 3:43PM UTC

    You need to be able to provide proof, witnesses, when it happened and what was said. Some allegations won't get far without any of that. And saying 'I know what they meant by that' is not proof. You have to understand perception and proof. Repeated behaviors with others, that is also documented. Also, asking for a separation package? If it's YOU driven to leave the org, good luck with that outcome. HR can only do so much, and without clear proof, they also aren't able to assume. it's not fair to either parties, not what you wanted to read, but it's not. You can seek advice any time from a legal partner but be prepared.

16. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 5:34PM UTC

    Remember, HR is not there to protect you. They are there to protect the company. If you don't have proof of misconduct that they can control, there are no steps for them to take.

17. AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 3:26PM UTC

    I have a problems with all of these comments stating HR is not there to protect you. With this company, that may be the case, however the purpose of HR departments is to ensure fair treatment to the employees and also protect the employees and the company. I have worked in HR for 10 years, at two different companies, and this is just not accurate! Putting out information like this will cause people to not trust HR departments and leaders. This is just not true of any of the company's I have worked for. We try very hard to always stay mutual and unbiased and support employees of all rankings, including clerical up to senior leadership.

18. Andrea LindseyOctober 17,2023 at 3:31PM UTC

    Then you are an exception to the rule, sorry. We are just speaking from our experience.

19. AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 9:13PM UTC

    But she is not the exception. But all the bashing around here, may make the good ones say eff this I'm out - then all that's left is the bad ones.

20. AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 11:39PM UTC

    I've been in more than one company, and HR has been good until, it gets to legal matters. It's not their fault, it just happens to have been something a few people on here have experienced. Back in the day, it seemed a true statement, but in the last 10 years, they have your back until it's legal and then the answers get short and cookie cut on the side of the company.

    's

21. asmith13October 21,2023 at 5:55PM UTC

    Honestly, I have thought about dropping off this board. The HR bashing is worse than anything I have ever seen. I have a thick skin, but it is just getting old real fast.

22. asmith13October 17,2023 at 6:57PM UTC

    Totally agree. I've been in HR for 23 years and the blanket statement of HR not being there to protect you is total BS.

23. AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 1:54PM UTC

    Yes! Just because they had a poor experience at a company, does not mean all HR departments are like this. HR is called "Human Resources" for a reason. We provide resources and support to assist employees and the company to ensure everyone is treated fairly and equally.

24. AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 7:41PM UTC

    That hasn't been my experience in 25 years of working. I worked at one company that protected 3 executives who were using sex to manipulate people that worked for them. I worked at another that protected a bully CEO. Doing something about these executives would have been public and might have affected the share price of the company.

25. AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 8:07PM UTC

    HR is there to protect the company. Period. They will NEVER admit to any type of abuse or discrimination because it will cost them $$. They will protect their own (i.e. leadership) before ever acknowledging wrongdoing. Any employee who complains of misconduct will automatically be targeted to eventually be “laid off” because the minute you complain to HR, you are a LIABILITY to the company’s bottom line. I’m sure there are good people who work in HR, but the company is signing their paychecks as well - they’re not going to risk their own livelihood to buck the “system”.

26. AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 9:12PM UTC

    Please just stop.

27. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 6:43PM UTC

    NOW is the time to seek out an attorney. Be sure you’ve thoroughly documented any and all instances of unfair treatment and what protected class they may be infringing upon (age, sex, disability, etc). Also, HR is not and never will be helpful to you. Their job is to assist your manager in getting rid of you - especially now that you’ve called them out. All of that said, it is still very important that you complain to HR IN WRITING specifying if you believe it is related to a protected class. Legally, this is very, very important — even though we know for a fact they’re not going to help. That’s for the attorney to use against them. Also, leave it to an attorney to request a settlement or severance - they will assess your situation and if they believe there is a case, they will approach the employer about settlement. I just got out of this situation in April. It took about 5 months of my attorney going back and forth with my employer, filing with EEOC, etc and we finally reached a $ settlement/separation of employment to avoid having to go to court. Best of luck to you, but get legal advice immediately. I waited for 7 months for HR to address the issue and they completely ignored it - until EEOC and my attorney contacted them.

28. AnonymousOctober 16,2023 at 11:55PM UTC

    Please disregard any opinions on this thread about whether or not you have a valid complaint or are likely to get a separation package.

    *You need to speak to an employment lawyer in your state as soon as possible.*

    Laws vary by state, and only an employment attorney can advise you about your individual situation. Many will offer a brief consult for free to determine whether--or how--it may make sense to move forward. In some cases the attorney may feel that you do not have a clear enough case that they would take it on as a lawsuit (for example, discrimination can be very difficult to prove; in many cases employment lawyers only get paid if they win, so will accept clear-cut cases).

    However, they may still be willing to represent you in a request for separation and subsequent negotiation, and can also advise you on whether to accept a separation/severance offer. They can also review separation documents to ensure that they have been prepared appropriately, without loopholes for the company, and ensure that you fully understand the agreement and any related obligations on either side. It may cost a few thousand dollars to do this, but if in the end it gets you a separation agreement and severance, it will be worthwhile.

    Hopefully you have been documenting events and communications from your manager and HR, and saving copies (this means printed copies and/or forwarding the emails to yourself at home, not just "saving" them in your work email ... you need to ensure that these do not just "disappear") Create a chronology of events and note where you can support with some kind of written documentation--keep this focused on facts only, and try to keep emotion separate.

    HR is not your friend and will not support you. They are there to protect the company. They may very likely (if this has not happened already) start to insist that all exchanges with you are verbal -- phone, Zoom, or meetings -- rather than in writing. They do this to try to eliminate a paper trail of their actions. It is a good practice to follow up on any meeting with HR by sending an email summary to all parties in attendance: include the date/time, meeting topic, attendees, discussion/outcomes, and any action items. You can say something like: "This reflects my understanding of the discussion at this meeting. If I have misunderstood any key factors or have inadvertently left anything out, please respond with the necessary information." Do NOT send any other documentation to HR.

    Good luck!

29. AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 3:30PM UTC

    What you said about HR is not true. They are supposed to protect the employees and the company. If this is not happening at this company, you should leave and find a company that has better values, maybe a larger corporation that has a true HR department. Please stop spreading false information about HR departments and professionals. There is a lot of areas of HR- recruiting, employee relations, benefits, payroll, etc. These departments are not out to get you or only protecting the company. If this company culture is not good and they do not have an effective HR department, then you should leave and find a company that is in-line with your values.

30. asmith13October 17,2023 at 6:56PM UTC

    I'm starting to think the same person comes on here under "anonymous" and trash talks HR in almost every post lol. I 100% agree with you-good HR folks who do their job are both upholding ethical standards and protecting employee rights while also balancing the needs of the business and doing their best to avoid litigation. HR isn't the enemy. If anything, we are the ones telling managers they CAN'T fire someone unless they have true justification to do so.

31. AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 1:49PM UTC

    I absolutely agree with you. I have been in the HR field for 10 years and have always lived by these standards. It was shocking to see so many comments implying HR is against you or out to get you. It should be the exact opposite in a reputable company. HR is there to ensure equal and fair treatment of all employees and abide by and enforce employment laws and regulations.

32. AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 9:11PM UTC

    Thank you! So tired of the uncalled for HR bashing on this page. Every single profession has its bad apples, but quit making assumptions of all based on your own personal interactions. People keep reading that crap on here and never come to us.

33. Paula BrantnerOctober 19,2023 at 6:16PM UTC

    People are taking very personally what is a *systemic* problem, not an individual one. Individual HR employees may be employee-oriented by nature and doing the very best they possibly could to respond to problems that employees are addressed within the company. I believe that those individuals exist and take their responsibilities very seriously.However, the fundamental essence of an HR employee's job, when it comes to matters such as harassment, discrimination, and toxic environments, is to protect the company from liability. Whoever you report to, however senior you are, you are obligated to follow the law in a way that is already stacked against employees, and to take it even further to embrace the employer's perspective. If you work for a company who not only cares about minimizing lawsuits, but preventing the toxic behavior from happening in the first place, then maybe you'll be given latitude to engage in prevention-oriented activities that support employees who are being harmed. But if you are not supported in that way, and the company only cares about whether or not it will be sued, then those are the limits of your job. Employees have no way of knowing which it will be, because everyone will talk a good game when everything is peaceful. Without unbiased reporting and investigation systems in place, while the law requires employees to report harassment, often they are risking retaliation that can torpedo not only this particular job, but their entire career, if they are not protected from bias when coming forward, and if the information is not used to make the environment better, instead of only helping the employer CYA for liability purposes. Because this is how the legal system structures workplace relations, there is no reason for an employee to think their employer will use a non-adversarial approach that takes the employee's interests into account, and that the HR employee will be part of executing that strategy. Occasionally an HR employee will leave a particular employer when that's not the case, but they will probably have to leave the HR role entirely if they do not want to be under constant pressure to protect the employer's interest, which may include protecting problematic supervisors and managers at the employee's expense. Even coming forward and not being believed can be harmful enough (look up "institutional betrayal") that people choose not to try.

34. AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 12:56AM UTC

    If the company breaks the law and you can prove it. In black and white.

35. Nadia SobouhiOctober 17,2023 at 3:57AM UTC

    Have same problem, my manager doesn't train me at all , and she expect me to do all

    I need my job and income, but my company really abusing me , I am looking for job so far nothing