How critical are references?

Anonymous

August 25,2023 at 7:51PM UTC

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How critical are references?

I recently left an employer after almost 9 years due to an extremely toxic environment, verbally abusive management and discrimination.

A prospective employer that I’ve interviewed with twice asked for references - I provided a mentor and 2 colleagues. They came back and asked me to send them a past manager. I sent them 2 managers that I worked for at my previous employer (9 years ago) but role is generally the same. Is it going to be a deal breaker that I’m not providing my most recent (toxic) manager? This company seems to be dragging out this hiring process for reasons that aren’t clear to me - it took them over a week to follow up after speaking with the first 3 references. I assume there is still interest, but a little confused by all this. I haven’t provided references for a position in over 15 years - and this place seems really hung up on it.

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Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistAugust 25,2023 at 9:34PM UTC
The last three companies I've worked for didn't check references - it's somewhat outdated these days.
I would review the interview process - if they're really hung up on this, it could be a red flag - are there any others you may have not paid attention to at the time?
AnonymousAugust 25,2023 at 11:28PM UTC
Not really any other red flags, honestly - other than maybe the whole process has been very slow with weeks going by in between communications/interview scheduling. The last interview went really, really well and I met individuals at multiple levels. This dragging at the end and the fixation on references is the strangest part, for sure.
Nancy ExniciosAugust 25,2023 at 9:46PM UTC
I think it is outdated as well. You can always find folks who will vouch for someone else. It means nothing really. I think it is more meaningful to have people willing to go on as a contractor and prove the fit - both ways - and move on from there if everyone is happy.
AnonymousAugust 25,2023 at 10:25PM UTC
Funny you ask because I am in middle management (Director level) and not one of my last 3 positions checked references. I'm assuming it's not really an important element in the process now.
AnonymousAugust 27,2023 at 3:32PM UTC
Usually in a role where you deal with confidential information (financial or personal data) references are checked extensively. I have a similar situation where I got terminated (without cause) recently and even though I asked for a positive reference letter from my toxic manager, she managed to write the most basic reference that makes me seem like I achieved nothing during the time at the company! I would never want anyone to see that letter. I am using my previous manager at the company (one they also managed to get rid of because of politics) as a reference. Good luck! These toxic managers can have such a long lasting impact. The faster you can get away from them the better.
AnonymousAugust 25,2023 at 10:26PM UTC
I left a toxic environment and had to navigate the same issue. I sourced a reference form someone I enjoyed working with at the company and solicited external references who valued my work experience. Good Luck!
AnonymousAugust 26,2023 at 1:06PM UTC
It depends on the field. References are commonly used in the legal industry, and waiting a week doesn’t seem unusual to me.
AnonymousAugust 26,2023 at 2:26PM UTC
Have found that references are rarely called, prefer to provide recommendation letters. Is that an option? I would be transparent and simply state you are not willing to provide that to them due to the nature of the toxicity of your prior manager/employment. Then again, that is just me. Provide some recommendation letters instead. ?
AnonymousAugust 27,2023 at 12:45PM UTC
I wouldn’t be too concerned. Reference are usually the last step. The fact that they check them is a bit outdated. Who gives a name for a reference of someone who would say something bad about you?!
CathyAugust 28,2023 at 10:27AM UTC
True story. I agree who would ever provide a reference of someone that didn’t like you or want you to do well.
Try to relax a week is not a deal breaker.
Kia HarrisAugust 27,2023 at 12:53PM UTC
Do you have good annual reviews you can share? That could be an option
GirlBossanova934974August 27,2023 at 12:55PM UTC
From what I am reading here, this company operates on "slow drive", not to be confused with any sort of urgency. BE SURE you are prepared for this sort of corporate culture. I left my last company as I got tired of all the absenteeism, foot dragging, and managers who had to consult with their managers before anyone could figure out where to have lunch. Watching the paint dry was their favorite past time.
Lisa McCartneyAugust 27,2023 at 1:48PM UTC
It may have taken this long because your references are slow in getting back too. One week is not a deal breaker.
AnonymousAugust 27,2023 at 3:59PM UTC
I would ask them directly what kind of reference they are wanting. Do they want to understand your strengths and weaknesses or simply speak to the last person that you reported to. If they say the last person then you might disclose your reasons for leaving the company in a plain way. IE: This leadership was toxic and I chose to leave my role after 9 years there because of this. The company was unwilling to do anything about it and I decided to move on. So you may not get the most glowing rating from them but I can offer you 2 other managers that I reported to there as well as my reviews and some work samples as proof of the great work I did there. If there is something else holding up your wanting to hire me please let me know. DO NOT give details on the abuse. A week is not a long time for them to get through references etc. let the process play out, but for sure speak directly to the person whom you will report to at this new place with this info above NOT the recruiter. You want to develop a good working relationship with them from the start. Be upbeat and show them how much you want that role. Good luck.
AnonymousAugust 27,2023 at 4:24PM UTC
I used my previous employer as a reference and was written up twice there.. but my work was impeccable attitude not so much because the environment I was in drove me nuts hence why I left .. either way it did not shone me away from finding a new workplace , they can't really speak bad about you .. We’re not made equal and the chances of not getting along with your boss is a pretty normal occurrence these days ..
AnonymousAugust 27,2023 at 4:29PM UTC
Play it cool. You gave them two former managers.
AnonymousAugust 27,2023 at 9:12PM UTC
Last year I was let go from my position as Director of HR, without warning and for no reason (the new COO didn't agree with my coaching efforts with staff or the equity in wages I insisted on) she got tired of my wall.
I have a very good reputation in my field and had 6 reference letters from previous C-Suite Managers at former companies that I had worked for. Some of these letters dated back to 1995. I provided those as well as my last two glowing annual evaluations.
Remember employers are only to confirm dates of employment, wages and titles. They are not allowed to bad mouth you. When I was asked to provide a reference as the Director of HR, I would explain our policy on work references. Sometimes, they are just checking off a box in the onboarding process. Often it is the last task as it is a process to get references completed.
I really don't think this is unusual for the length of time.
AnonymousAugust 28,2023 at 1:21PM UTC
They are allowed to answer if you are eligible for rehire.
AnonymousSeptember 2,2023 at 4:20PM UTC
Just speaks more about them than you .. not all exists are pristine
AnonymousAugust 28,2023 at 1:01PM UTC
I think you’ve done all the right things.
Most of us provide former managers or colleagues because we don’t want our current manager to know we are looking for work.
AnonymousAugust 28,2023 at 1:19PM UTC
I've stopped contacting references because the worst three employees I have ever hired had the best references ever. And I would never expect the current manager to be on the list of references anyway.
AnonymousAugust 28,2023 at 7:15PM UTC
Are they checking the references themselves; or, did you consent to 3rd party to check them? Places like Sterling can take a lot longer, so don’t fret. Hope you get the position!
Angelica Alvarez-IbarraAugust 29,2023 at 5:20PM UTC
I know I've worked for places that don't allow their managers to give references. That's always a surprise to me but I know that is policy for some companies. I've never been privy to those conversations BUT I'd like to think employers know are a lot of reasons outside of applicants' control on what references they choose to share.
MislynAugust 30,2023 at 11:19AM UTC
I wouldn’t put past employers down if you feel they would jeopardize your chance of getting hired. I would put coworkers and people that actually worked with you and know what type of employee you are.
Farah BajwaAugust 31,2023 at 1:05AM UTC
Honestly its rare that i personally hear they specifically want a manager. But it should also be understood that a candidate won't give a current manager so it doesn't risk retaliation behavior when they discover you're shopping around. I think you did the right thing. If they want your current manager, they'll ask again and you can say no.
Also keep in mind that especially post COVID the hiring process is much much longer. Internally they could have turn over, budget changes, or are just flat out disorganized.
Good luck and trust that what's in your best interest will manifest for you!
AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 5:43AM UTC
Many companies aren't even using references at all anymore. I suppose it depends what kind/size of company you work for but in my experience (mostly larger, publically traded companies or subsidiaries of them), there are no more reference checks. This is why I no longer give a **** about references.