Why do employees get away with bullying innocent employees even though the company is supposedly zero tolerance, managers allow the bullies to stay?

38 Comments

1. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 4:04PM UTC

   It is tolerated because "bullying " is in the eye of the beholder.
   What is considered bullying to you might not be bullying to me. This goes for management as well.

   Some people are much more sensitive than others and also take things more personally. Just my two cents. I have worked in legal for many years and have investigated countless claims of bullying at companies and have found there to be a huge difference in people's experience. I have found what many people describe as bullying is not.

2. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 4:17PM UTC

   This is very true. I honestly feel that the term 'bully' is overused. I have had a few investigations where bullying was very clear and could be proven and others where it was more of a perception thing.

3. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 1:44AM UTC

   Very true. Some people see bullies everywhere they turn.

4. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 9:02PM UTC

   Have you found a threshold or a commonality among confirmed cases for proving bullying or patterns of behavior? Could you share?

5. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 5:14PM UTC

   Sometimes it's not "bullying", but expectations based on ego (didn't get promoted because truly didn't earn so "bullied")

   Unfortunately, bully proof needs documentation but even that is no guarantee of resolve

6. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 5:57PM UTC

   Because the workplace is basically a school yard with people who can drive. There is fear and anxiety played out in very real ways. I'm sorry if you are the punching bag. Hope you can find a place to be or ways to cope to keep your sanity. Hugs!

7. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 6:00PM UTC

   If the manager isn't taking action, then you go to their leader and on up. With documentation, witnesses, when it happened and what was said.

8. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 6:02PM UTC

   In most cases, it's not illegal, unfortunately. The Workplace Bullying Institute is lobbying for laws that prohibit bullying in the workplace, but they haven't gotten far.

9. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 6:27PM UTC

   I’ve read some of your comments….. bullying could be a PERCEPTION? or just be mistaken for teasing? It is HARASSMENT, ladies!!!!!!! I can TELL you all about bullying!

10. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 7:34PM UTC

    Because it's so hard to prove, unfortunately smh

    When it comes to workplace, it's definitely murky territory anddd there usually needs to be a paper trail, meaning a person has to endure this behavior repeatedly for a period of time before "real" action can happen (even that's debatable).

    Which is why folks find it so hard to speak up and stick up for themselves. Sometimes the easiest solution (even if you like your job, pay and benefits) is to just leave. It's not worth your dignity, mental health, safety, etc. I hate to say this but it's the truth. The same could be said about microaggression and unconscious and conscious biases...y'all know the lingo and they usually are part of the bullying.

    Just walk away, choose yourself, and find a better environment. So many people have workplace anxiety and stress for this very reason alone and it's sad.

11. Kathleen SullivanJuly 19,2023 at 1:35PM UTC

    It can take time to remove someone who is a bully. Take contemporaneous notes if they bully you or if you witness. You can also ask HR for a training for the staff.

12. Kristen HillJuly 19,2023 at 9:26PM UTC

    I worked with a set of bullies at one time. We were all admins to Sr. VPs. My VP was tight with their VP.

    I do not know why I became the object of their aggression. I spoke to my boss. She asked me to ignore it. I spoke to my mentor. She suggested to fight back with kindness, which I did.... Donuts in the morning for all with a chirpy 'Good Morning!" and always a "Have a great night, see you in the morning."

    This went on for a time. It was difficult but I knew as long as they were focused on me, they weren't focusing on someone else.

    One day, out of the blue, I get called up to our Exec. VP and COO's office. My boss was there. I knew I was getting fired because of them.

    I was wrong. I was being commended and being promoted because of them. A manager whose office was nearby was aware of things they said and did and she reported it to HR. HR started an investigation monitoring their communications and found that they were indeed collaborating with evil intent and they were fired. I received the promotion based on how professionally I handled the situation.

    It was just being willing to follow someone's suggestion.

    GOOD LUCK.

13. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 8:11PM UTC

    I love this so much. Thanks for sharing it! Hope in the middle of a horrible situation.

14. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 1:22AM UTC

    In life there are people who are targets and there are people who are not. It's life and life is not an even playing field. Managers are generally not referees.

15. Samantha KBJuly 20,2023 at 12:23PM UTC

    This is terrible advice. So you're suggesting she just put up with it. And you’re right that managers are not referees, but they do have an obligation to protect and make sure that all their employees are being treated fairly and respectfully. I can’t even believe you thought responding this way would be in any way helpful.

16. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 1:16PM UTC

    I hate to sat it but it is so true! You want to pay the bills? Ya gotta put up with the excrement rolling downhill!

    Where do you work Sam KB that it is not like this?

17. Samantha KBJuly 20,2023 at 6:32PM UTC

    I work for Farmers Insurance on the service side. In my 1.5 years with them, I’ve never felt like I’ve been bullied or encountered someone who has been. There are good companies out there that actually follow through on a “zero tolerance” policy.

18. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 12:22PM UTC

    Fear. Mixed messages from the top down. Your culture can be one of psychological safety (in the work place) but if people (esp leadership) are not held accountable - then it's all a dummy policy. It's pretty typical if your CEO abuses or ignores certain policies - then you'll see executive leadership following suit. If no one takes action, then the cycle continues.

19. GirlBossanova934974July 20,2023 at 12:33PM UTC

    Without being shown specific incidents of "bullying", it is nearly impossible to make any suggestion here. One person's definition of bullying may not agree with another person's definition of bullying. Most bullies are in fact trying to cover up something, usually their own deficiencies in job skill or supervisory skills. Some use language which is not appropriate. It is up to senior management to set the tone. If senior management discourages salty language, discourages shouting et al, and keeps an open door, most mid level managers get the clue!

20. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 12:48PM UTC

    It can be very hard to prove that there's actually bullying going on. And a stance on "zero tolerance" really just means the company will do whatever it takes to protect itself, legally.

21. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 12:54PM UTC

    When I worked with this it was always the same no matter where I worked, usually the bully has been there for years, they have friends in HR and high up , they can talk a really good story that’s about all I took everywhere I have seen it , and normally there is nothing you can do as long as they have HR friends to protect them and high up friends.

    nothing changes and not a thing you can do.

    either come to an understanding with them or ignore them you won’t be able to change a thing just how you deal with it I changed my thinking so I wouldn’t get sick

22. Rebecca MillikenJuly 20,2023 at 1:35PM UTC

    It's a subtle thing to prove and as some here have said, it's subjective. But I have found the reason some people get away with anything at work, be it a-holishness, laziness, incompetence, often has to due with lazy and apathetic management. I have worked with a couple of toxic people who were not productive either. I'm thinking of one specific person who no one wanted to work with and her sales suffered because of it. Not just clients but other support people etc. She was complained about and the people who complained were told to "grow up" and learn to work with her. I asked the HR manager who told us to grow up if he was willing to have her office moved next to his. By the way, I was just about the only person willing to work with her and keep things professional, even thought she was a horrible person. My point being--managers many times simply don't have the will to deal with such people, so they turn a blind eye. If someone is truly bullying, keep track of specific incidents. If they are not your boss and are just being a jerk, avoid them or tell them to get lost. I know this sounds easier said than done, but the older I get, the more likely I am to tell someone to go away. Especially a person with no power over me.

23. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 2:32PM UTC

    Because “no tolerance” bully policies are a way for a company to protect itself, as in “see, we have a no tolerance bully policy, we really care!”, so if an issue comes up, they can point to their “policy”. These policies are often meaningless in reality. The fact is that if you’re liked well enough (often undeservedly), you can bully others quite a lot and get away with it. Bullies claim it’s not bullying, and that it’s the one being bullied that is actually causing the problem (gaslighting, anyone?). And because HR are usually valued/trusted more than anyone else (because their jobs are literally just to protect the company), in my experience they are some of the worst bullies in the company, so if you report bullying, these HR bullies are going to gaslight you and say it’s not ‘really’ bullying, as in some of the comments below. News for you, friends who pretend bullying doesn’t really happen much, if a person feels bullied, you have to assume they’re being bullied. Period. It’s not ok, and it should be addressed. And for someone to get to the point that they feel they have to report a bully, the mistreatment must have been going on for a long time or be particularly severe. These are adults, not children. If they say they’re being bullied, they’re probably being bullied.To the poster, in real life, if you’re being bullied, the culture (in the US especially) says that you have to put on a smile and pretend everything is ok and that you should be even friendlier with your bully. If you don’t, you’re the problem. Does it work to do this? Yes. But it puts an enormous amount of strain on your mental health. You have two real choices: pretend you’re not being bullied and potentially harm your mental health, or search for another workplace where hopefully you won’t be targeted by a random bully. They’re everywhere, unfortunately.

24. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 2:35PM UTC

    It is the same reason bullies in elementary school continue to run amok. They are narcissistic with parents with a history of letting them get away with everything. Even when caught in the act, they are only punished for a single issue, not the havoc they have spread on the entire school. Schoolyard bullies often grow up to be office and workplace bullies. Reporting the behavior is one thing. Proving it is quite another.

25. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 3:02PM UTC

    Repeat after me: Management loves their bullies. That's the answer.

    Bullies are often very savvy with social skills, with political skills, often good looking or at least very charming. They know how to work the executives to their advantage.

    Bullies do Management's dirty work for them. Management stays "clean" and enjoys the "services" the bully provides - namely to force undesirable workers to quit, thus saving the company money (and a worker can be seen as undesirable for any reason or none at all, just not liked), and to scare other employees into compliance and complacency.

    Bullying is not illegal - unless it occurs against someone's race, religion, etc. Even then it can be very hard to prove.

    Most victims of bullying lack the correct skills to deal with and stop bullying. They whine to other coworkers, who want nothing to do with the victim lest they be associated with the victim, or they reach out for help to those who love the bully, or they appeal for justice and fairness (which doesn't exist, don't look for it) or they let themselves become emotional and overwhelmed by the bully, and end up crying and blubbering at their hearings looking like they are unstable or a troublemaker - while the bully is cool, calm, and looks rational and put together.

    If you are being bullied, you won't win - you are done. You will always be seen as a 'bad employee' by management. Polish the resume and move on. Get therapy, practice social skills and political skills, there are skills you can learn to deal with bullies but for a lot of victims (for various reasons) they are not capable of standing up appropriately to bullies, often falling apart. Better to work where you fit in, where your temperament and skills are appreciated.

26. AnonymousJuly 21,2023 at 7:24PM UTC

    Yep, I was told by my sup to go to him if I was being treat with disrespect. I went to him; wrote and email now it is biting me in the ass! I have a target in my back now!

27. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 11:01PM UTC

    Yes, sounds like you're done.

28. Rebecca MillikenJuly 24,2023 at 12:03AM UTC

    What you have said is very true. Life is not fair especially in the workplace. Many times you will be considered the difficult person if you complain. Even more so if you are a woman and the bullying person is a man.

29. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 3:59PM UTC

    I realized at one point that my own boss was also afraid of the workplace bully, even questioning me as to how I provoked him after he threw paperwork at me. This individual did become arrogant enough that he messed up and did get fired and we were all relieved. Mine is an unusual situation and don’t look for it to happen but please learn to take care of yourself. You won’t win by calling them out, they will have to hang themselves.

30. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 4:59PM UTC

    Why? Poor leadership or they value the person who is the bully more in the team. Definitely push back and let the bully know it is not acceptable if it happens to you.

31. Cindy GrossJuly 20,2023 at 5:36PM UTC

    I left behind my 25 years of skills and experience in the tech industry after I reported harassment aka bullying. I've learned a lot since then. We can't count on leadership removing the bullies, but we can set boundaries so that we lessen the impact on us. In some environments some types of boundaries may make it more obvious to others that the bully is harming the team/project/org which can shift support away from them. Check out "The Sugar Jar" by Yasmine Cheyenne to learn how to set boundaries for yourself that give you energy and freedom. Or get a coach who specializes in that. #BefriendingDragons

32. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 6:09PM UTC

    This actually happened in a fast food job . I was there only a week. The two little bitches were young enough to be my daughters. Last Saturday evening after dealing with these two brats, I had enough and told the manager what happened and I needed to go home. I clocked out and never went back.

33. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 9:17PM UTC

    Bullying is often ignored because they are usually successful in attaining their goals, they are perceived as valuable and they help the business hit its targets. They are tolerated because they make theur manager look good.

34. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 11:35PM UTC

    I had this happen at the “reputable” BHP Billiton. What a joke HR is there. I ended up leaving because how toxic it came to be.

35. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 6:29PM UTC

    Thank you!!!!im glad someone GETS what I’m saying! Reporting it doesn’t do squat! If I’m not treated with respect and dignity, I leave!

36. AnonymousJuly 23,2023 at 11:27PM UTC

    Just wondering how would you prevent this from happening again in your new workplace if you leave? How many jobs are you going to end up quitting because bullies are like everywhere. If everyone just decides to leave because they are being bullied without bringing this up to the management then aren't we just encouraging the bullies to indirectly continue what they are doing?

37. Vi BrownJuly 25,2023 at 2:38PM UTC

    You are so correct on this one. If H.R. does anything, it usually takes 3 or more complaints to create an action level for toxic behavior. Sadly, these individuals may operate for a while - often years - before anything meaningful is done.

38. sayantika mukherjeeJuly 21,2023 at 1:46PM UTC

    Unfortunately workplace bullying is a very real thing and it does not get addressed so much by peers or managers because everyone thinks bullying should have stopped in college. You should know better. When I joined as a new engineer in my first group I faced that mini clique system already existed in my group which resulted into bullying. It becomes very toxic to survive in a situation like that. I brought it up several times with my manager in our 1:1 but he never took any action. When it went out of hands, I brought it up with my next level manager which started from a casual conversation in a parking lot. The next day he pulled him in a conference room and had a chat with him that was more than an hour long. After that he took some measures to control it. I was lucky my next level manager took it seriously enough to do something about it. So here is what I would do:

    1. Bring it up first with direct supervisor: i would follow the books and first bring it up with my direct supervisor and have a clear conversation with him. I would document the conversation so that I would have proof to show it took place.

    2. Go to next level Manager: If that does not work I would setup a meeting with the next level manager.

    3. Go to HR: This part although is tricky and I did not have to do it, but you might keep it as your last and final resort if neither of them agree to help your situation.

    4. Change position: If you can find a different position that you like within the organization, I would try to make a move. Its essential we protect our mental health first. You cannot survive too long in a toxic work situation.

    5. Get some peers together who are also facing bullying but are afraid to talk about it. That will strengthen your case.

    Let me know if this helps. At the end of the day I have learned when employees leave a job they actually leave the manager because they are incompetent to solve problems in the group.