Advice needed: have a nice, honest, “wants to help out” everywhere but completely unsuited for role employee

33 Comments

1. Carol Brumer GliksmanDecember 15,2023 at 2:19PM UTC

   It sounds like a processing issue. Does she set up a calendar, alarms, reminders with deadlines and the prompts that are included....a week before, a day before, , an hour before the deadline? How is the quality of her work? Does she feel she can approach you with questions after the instructions? Does she step by step guides to refer to? Is this the right position for her given her skill set?

2. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 2:27PM UTC

   Yes to all of the above. They have missed meetings and I have asked why and typically am met with a “I don’t know. I just missed it. I feel ashamed” she has SOPs as well as for 6 months I showed her first hand step by step what to do - and had asked her to please document, for a bit of color: this role is communications and it seems that is often amiss - responses and answers are always a novel - and not like the standard bad worker who denies everything. For instance, if I ask for a sentence writing out what the bottom total savings are for a homeowner - I will be flooded with 20 questions that are related but irrelevant such as oh what if they are a bitcoin miner (and then she will go on a tangent telling a story about NFTs)

3. AnonymousDecember 20,2023 at 1:48PM UTC

   talking about NFTS and bitcoin instead of the work request-as much as I think creative people should be left alone and not stigmatized, it could be a sign of a break from reality of some kind. You cannot ask personal medical questions by law, however you may be on the look out for other signs of mental illness. She could just be quirky and creative, maybe has an active imagination, however missing meetings and going on long tangents can also be a sign of schizophrenia. Again, try to be sensitive to the fact that not all quirky people are mentally ill. Some people are just oddballs and their feelings matter too.

4. Gwen McKerrellDecember 15,2023 at 2:24PM UTC

   If she has 10 years of previous work experience, can you ask her what her best way of learning was in previous jobs and then apply that?

5. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 2:50PM UTC

   I have consistently asked what tools or guidance I can provide. Recently when she had missed a deadline for compliance training (typical corp online videos) by nearly two weeks - I asked if she was overwhelmed or how I could better help her. Received a “no I don’t feel overwhelmed” which led into her saying she has issues with her headphones, but that that is her own problem and how she recently found a solution to use Bluetooth. Often feel employee might be just living in their own world.

6. Amy Carissa OliverDecember 15,2023 at 2:54PM UTC

   I am going to give you a bit of hard advice: it’s almost always at least 50% the trainer. That’s not a judgment on you. But this employee is not learning from you. Before you make a judgment on them it’s a good idea to have someone else take over and see if it improves.

   I have had staff who were simply failing under someone else come to me and suddenly perform stellar. And vice versa. I’ve also had staff who were transferred to another manager and then were fired a month later because they still weren’t performing.

   And I’m not talking about one day or one week. Talk to your manager and say, “Hey, I have been working with so and so and I don’t think my style of training is working for her. Can you help me pick someone who might be a better fit?”

   The biggest problem is that you’ve let it go on for 10 months. This should have been handled for both your sakes 7-8 months ago at the longest stretch. This is again not a judgment on you; we all do this with people because we want to do everything we can to help them.

   if you want to DM me and give me some more details I can help you through the situation.

7. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 5:36PM UTC

   Excellent advice - I wish everyone thought like this - thank you!

8. AnonymousDecember 16,2023 at 2:01AM UTC

   i completely agree with your thoughts - and in this employee’s specific role and the way our company is organized they have trained across all the various departments by the department leads. As someone who has been in positions decades ago where I have felt I was not receiving equitable opportunity - this is actually a key area that I have kept in mind not to pass through to future generations. That said - the individual has trained with all groups (varying styles), provided SOPs, online training modules, in person learning - is there something I could be missing?

9. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 3:22PM UTC

   Obviously not a verbal learner, so stop trying to verbally teach. You didn't supply enough detail about what kinds of things aren't being learned for specific advice, but if you want this person to be successful, pivoting to a new method is needed.

   Some people do need micromanaging. My previous employee who needed micromanaging turned out to have ADHD.

   Also keep in mind that telling anybody something once or twice if it doesn't come up daily isn't going to stick, no matter the person. We remember what we say more than what we hear.

10. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 5:35PM UTC

    I admire your response - excellent!

11. Julie DorbonDecember 21,2023 at 8:34AM UTC

    This. find their learning style. Use it. Document. Clear, concise documentation. Checklists for each task backed up by a "how-to" with a little more detail on each point which can be referred to if needed.

    And keep the goal posts in the same place. At least until they are competent with the role. What you expect from them should be clear and not changing week to week, and with different managers.

12. AnonymousDecember 15,2023 at 4:03PM UTC

    While I get that you've done a lot to ensure that she has all of the training and support she needs to be successful, she sounds like she may not be able to do the job. Apologizing is great, acknowledging that she messed up is appreciated, but if it's not getting any

    better, there's a point where liking her and feeling bad for her intersects with needing the job done - accurately and in a timely manner.

13. Changemaker577316December 15,2023 at 4:32PM UTC

    Do you have documented process and procedures? If not, that is a large part of your problem. I prefer to see an actual paper binder/manual as well as electronic documentation. Some folks need paper and some want to look it up on the employee portal, etc.. While not every situation can be documented, the majority of the employees tasks and responsibilities should always be documented and easy to refer to.

14. AnonymousDecember 16,2023 at 3:01AM UTC

    Confirming I have tapped into all resources that are available to leadership and have provided the items above - I have made a point to be as concise as possible when providing steps. Feel like I am in a bit of a circular pattern with employee, wondering if there are additional tools to help guide, or is it time to focus in on the required skills and make a change?

15. AnonymousDecember 16,2023 at 4:03PM UTC

    As someone else said, this sounds exactly like my employee with ADHD. Everything needs to be written down and include tiny details, even if you think they are obvious. You will need to micromanage but hopefully, the rote things will become routine enough over time.

16. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 3:29PM UTC

    As others have said, it sounds like this person may have ADHD. In fact, you might suggest that they get tested but note that it can take up to a year and several thousands dollars to get testing and a diagnosis. And getting meds is an additional struggle.

    In the meantime as an employee with ADHD, I would recommend that you as manager learn a bit how ADHD works. It will help you and them work better if you understand it. There are many "hacks". ADDitude magazine is great, otherwise I actually recommend going on ADHD tiktok - it will provide you with information that more closely demonstrates what ADHD is and acts like. It's often misunderstood by the medical community and isn't accurate in how it's portrayed in media.

    - Write everything down for them. Email tasks - do not give them verbal tasks unless you have also written it down. ADHD at its core is a lack of working memory. As others have said, have the processes documented.

    - Give specific (realistic) deadlines. If there isn't a deadline on something, it probably won't happen and they'll forget about it.

    - Generally speaking, ADHD executive functioning works best if there is Interest, Challenge, Novelty, Urgency, and/or Passion for what they are doing

    - Learn what type of needs they have around focus and provide those accommodations. Like other neurodivergent folks, usually this means either lots of background noise or none at all.

    - Caffeine. Seriously, it works as a crutch as a stimulant that ADHD brains need. It's not as effective as medication, but it's better than nothing.

17. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 1:29PM UTC

    Under the ADA and civil rights laws, it is unlawful for an employer to ask their employee to be tested for ADHD or any other disability - or even suggest it. Employers can ask if a person needs an accommodation or assistance doing a job or task. If the employee requests a reasonable accommodation, the employer can begin the reasonable accommodation process.

18. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 1:34PM UTC

    This is totally absurd. You can't imply or ask an employee to be tested for ADHD.

19. GirlBossanova934974December 18,2023 at 3:54PM UTC

    What is wrong with this? THE TRAINING METHOD. You teach. The employee nods. You walk away. The employee forgets. Employee apologizes. Rinse and repeat. TRY THIS. You teach. The employee writes down each and every step. You verify she has written down each step. Before you leave, you hand out a problem to solve. You have the employee refer to the instructions. Walk them through step by step. You don't walk away until she do the task with ZERO assistance from you. Check! I do the same thing with complex topics and training videos I use on Youtube. I literally walk through each step, stop the video, and keep going. Then do it again. I can always rewind. The employee needs to document each and every step to the Nth degree so she can do the task at hand.

20. AnonymousDecember 18,2023 at 5:17PM UTC

    I would schedule a meeting and ask them to walk you through step by step the last thing they failed at. Then watch as they do this and you can see where the stumbling happens. As a manager you cannot simply assume that everyone learns the same way so while doing so also ask them how they best retain information and learn new things. If they are a visual learner vs a read it and do it solo learner your approach needs to be different. 10 years of experience or not everyone has a learning curve. Don't be ageist because it is also possible that they have to unlearn another approach to do it correctly. Ask them after you retrain them on that one thing what went right and what went wrong or how they could improve. If they are a success you are a success, take the time to invest further and make it work.

21. maria roseDecember 18,2023 at 7:23PM UTC

    After reading through all the comments and trying to figure out if the OP answered any of the comments, I got this impression of the situation—the job requires writing down plan of action for certain tasks because the job requires verbal communication along with a written statement. The employee has an issue doing both at the same time but somehow has been able to maintain working in paid jobs for 10 years but has not been successful in this job despite being given help over the past 9 months. This employee can talk expressively enough to give the impression that they know all the details of what they are supposed to do but can’t fully comprehend all the tasks that they are responsible for. I get the impression that this job requires a bit more detail attention to communication skills that are not just verbal but need a written statement also. Since the goal is to improve the productivity of this employee, it may be beneficial for this employee to be assigned to work with a buddy who can help evaluate how this employee works in their best performance without doing any of the assignments to cover the mistakes. Sometimes you need to take a step back and just watch to see where the correction needs to come.

22. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 1:37PM UTC

    PIP. If you’re training and they still don’t get it, sounds like a poor fit. Maybe time for them to move on to a better suited position.

23. vijayendran krishna raoDecember 19,2023 at 1:56PM UTC

    Usually the reason cited are not the real reasons,you have to dig deeper and ask open ended questions and draw them out and then may be you may be able to understand the real reasons and suggest or adopt measures to overcome that

    Please set context for engaging in deeper discussion on why they are not doing what they have been trained make it very clear this excercise is not to pin blame or point out mistakesbut a earnrst attempt to work together to get to bottom of the issue

    What ever they say will not be held against them

24. Ally MorganDecember 19,2023 at 2:03PM UTC

    Is there a different role that this person would be better suited for within the company? Even if it's a "demotion."

25. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 2:13PM UTC

    When you say they’re “completely unsuited”…why did they get hired then? That might be a larger organizational issue.

    Nonetheless, it seems like maybe this employee might have a different background and different skill set than you. Therefore they need to figure out a way that works for them, that they can use their skills for.

    You trying to “square peg, round hole” their work is only pushing them out the door.

    Try setting some longer intervals of time to understand their process, like one other person said.

    And accept that it might be different than yours, and know that that’s ok!

    Have you gotten in touch with your supervisor about the employee and how you’re feeling? It’s possible you are missing some key advice.

26. CDiADecember 19,2023 at 2:40PM UTC

    I wonder if there might be a coach available to help this employee? I think most of us have been in situations where we don't know what we don't know, let alone how to unlearn ways of working, thinking, and behaving. It takes time. A coach along with a manager can help this employee come into realizations and choices on their own, help them move out of their own way. It's possible they've been shamed their whole life over mistakes, (hence the honest to a fault), and need compassion, support and a safe environment first. Once they recognize that, it becomes easier to set better boundaries, unlearn old mindsets, and be open to receiving and comprehending, be it training or something else. You may hear grief and "I'm so sorry...so embarrassed" for a bit as they process and learn to trust themselves.

    I don't think you should give up on the employee...but a compassionate career coach, some structure and checkins will help improve things. And instead of micromanaging, maybe a 3x/week stand up to give updates, ask if they need support, if there are blockers, and then a weekly summary with a plan for the following week.

27. AnonymousDecember 19,2023 at 6:37PM UTC

    There could be a couple of things going on. Sometimes trainers have a hard time adapting their teaching styles to their trainees, e.g. if the trainer is visual but the trainee is auditory and it's a matter of having someone train the person in the style they learn best.

    There also could be a learning or cognitive disability with the employee. I have a friend who had a stroke in her 30's. It resulted in cognitive difficulties. She recently had a part time job in a college library as an assistant but it required her to retain a significant amount of information which in the end, she couldn't handle. They put her on a PIP and gave her refresher training, but after a year. they let her go. There aren't adequate support services for people with disabilities like this-they are physically able, but may have cognitive or learning deficits.

28. Liz MilneDecember 20,2023 at 12:31AM UTC

    Do they possibly need to be checked for something like ADHD?

29. AnonymousDecember 21,2023 at 1:53PM UTC

    Maybe they’re just not good at what they do. Y’all can jump on me for saying this, but I don’t understand why so many organizations are hell-bent on keeping bad employees around. They require an inordinate amount of supervision, time, and resources. They drag down their coworkers and their team. If there’s a job description and they can’t meet the requirements after being given an opportunity to do so, why keep them around?

30. AnonymousDecember 21,2023 at 2:38PM UTC

    Is there another department they might be a better fit for?

31. AnonymousDecember 21,2023 at 4:32PM UTC

    If you figure this out, please share. I have the same situation, and while I know a bit about the person's learning style and have tried to accommodate it, I wonder at what point you just have to acknowledge that it is not a good fit.

32. AnonymousDecember 23,2023 at 6:14AM UTC

    That’s where we are as well. Visual, written, audio, calendaring elements have been provided as well as giving them a safe space for an open dialog and what they may need as resources to be successful. So far, it works for several days or week but then it’s fully back to day zero. At what point is it fair to separate the fact that someone is a truly nice person but that they lack the fundamentals to get the outline job done?

33. AnonymousDecember 21,2023 at 6:59PM UTC

    I used to be this person in my first job.
    For me, it was a combination of a bad fit and poor organization skills.
    My personal experience isn't a one-size-fits-all, but once I found out I needed to develop my own notekeeping, things got better. The fit part came with the notion that my next job required me to keep information, but on a flexible format. A planner and a notepad file to keep tiny memos and quick tips for myself was all it took for me to be "the person that knows". I know nothing, but my file might help me find out. Looking at it is a mess, but ctrl+f helps me find anything I need. People text me stuff and sometimes I copy the whole conversation to it with a tiny header to remind me when and what it was about.
    This helped me to avoid re-working issues my company found years ago and nobody remembers what happened. Some of my notes became manuals for new employees.
    There is hope, but you need to give her more direct advice if you want to keep her working with you. You need to understand why she can't remember. Is she distracted by social interaction? Is she someone that struggles with acronyms and would benefit from working with full sentences? Is she someone who takes a long time to switch from one task to another and maybe would benefit from having designated time blocks for tasks? Struggles are very individual, and people get overwhealmed by different reasons.