I have a college degree and an mba and have been out of work for four years.

70 Comments

1. AnonymousDecember 23,2023 at 8:38PM UTC

   Sue? Over WHAT???

   Unfortunately, nothing in business fair. I feel veteran or not, may the best person win. But veterans do put their lives first and tax write-off is a business decision.

2. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistDecember 24,2023 at 12:14AM UTC

   How do you know you're not being hired because of ageism?

3. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 1:27AM UTC

   How do you know you were turned down to favor a vet?
   Proof?? How do you know of their experience?

   Regardless, some things in life suck. Woman-up and move on.

4. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 1:28AM UTC

   Thank your husband for his service :)

5. Melissa BarrDecember 24,2023 at 4:05PM UTC

   I don't see where there is proof of you being hired over others who are younger or have a different status.

   If you do disclose your gender/ethnicity/etc. on forms, you may have an advantage over similarly qualified candidates, or you may not.

   Veterans or active-duty service members may also have preferred security credentials that you do not. I have seen a lot of postings lately that *require* security clearance at certain levels. It's strange to me that a company that (allegedly) works with the government or military would not be able to acquire this for an otherwise qualified employee but seems like businesses want the person they have to do the least work "building up" to the job. That includes a clearance that would be next to impossible for civilians to obtain without already having worked in the government/military.

   I would look closely at the businesses/posititons/industries you have been applying to. If there are any patterns that would indicate some requirements/preferences that you don't currently have, change tack and apply to different jobs/companies/industries.

   As I've told other older jobseekers: "If a company doesn't want to hire you for your experience and wisdom, they're at a greater loss for it."

   Depending on your field and position, you may be selling yourself short with putting only 15 years of experience, especially if it's for a single company/position. I've seen a lot of job postings requiring at least a decade of certain types of experience.

   See if you can find roles with "senior" in the title and review the required/preferred requirements to confirm it's also true in your field.

6. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 9:30PM UTC

   Not to run off into the weeds, since it's off-topic, but I have seen civilian security clearances take six months to a year. In the meantime, the company has to pay the person to sit and do nothing, as they cannot legally access anything they are hired to do. I have also seen people quit while waiting for this process to finish because they were bored to death with nothing to do.

7. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 5:20PM UTC

   maybe it's your spelling and grammar?

8. _December 25,2023 at 1:31PM UTC

   To be fair, this was likely an emotional release, not a plea to be hired. I think, when the focus is more on trying to get past something versus getting to something, a little grace can be extended.

9. AnonymousJanuary 3,2024 at 12:11AM UTC

   Well said!

10. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 6:42PM UTC

    Qualifications are in the eye of t h e leadership. They saw more value in those hired than they did in you. It's an assessment not saying you are not of value but they saw a better alignment in the other hires.

    In many companies, MBAs do not hold much weight so while you worked at fortune 500 companies, that may not be a great a fit at other companies.

    Hiring vets is an honorable way for any company to broaden its hiring practices and better fulfill its role as a leader in its industry. Why on earth would that be grounds for a lawsuit?

11. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 6:54PM UTC

    I am 67 and only have a B.S. but make a very nice living and continue to field healthy offers but am extremely happy with my current position. I expect my age to factor into some jobs openings but have found my niche. I found that understanding your value proposition for certain companies bssed on their needs is really helpful rather than leading with a credentials based value system.

12. AnonymousDecember 24,2023 at 9:43PM UTC

    I suspect that your most significant issue is the four-year gap in your resume. Is there anything you can fill that gap with? Were you caregiving for a family member? Did you volunteer anywhere? These are all legitimate things that can be verified, and don't make the last four years look like you were doing nothing. I filled up an eleven-month gap with a volunteer position I spent on the board of directors for a non-profit. That gap has not hurt me. I just turned 68 and am getting some decent traction with my resume. I am pursuing several avenues with different career services, including one that assists those with disabilities. There is a lot of help out there. Try AARP, career services at your alma mater's alumni association, or hire a career coach. You don't have to do this alone.

13. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 3:15AM UTC

    re: " Just because you are a Vet, doesn't mean you are qualifiex, nor should they be priority" - My guy is a vet. He has been called into interviews simply to check off the vet quota, but the companies did not proceed any further. So, any alleged preferences for vets has not translated into any job offers for him.

14. HILDA GDecember 25,2023 at 12:46PM UTC

    Maybe time to widen perspective too in terms of ageism and vets getting the offer. Not all have equal opportunties really in this this time and age. I would further push you to keep looking, or try discovering your unknown niche in a market that is full of biases. Your wisdom and talent will pave the way for your new opportunity this year. Good luck!

15. G C HesseDecember 25,2023 at 1:03PM UTC

    Don't know your career field, but I only go back 7 years on my resume.

    But 4 years? Obviously money isn't a problem. So don't blame everything on Vets.

16. Amy Carissa OliverDecember 25,2023 at 2:37PM UTC

    Your comment is very on point. I only go back 10 years unless they ask for my CV or require a longer history and I don't even put the dates on my degrees unless they're within that timeframe. Companies don't care. I'm almost 40 and I have never had anyone ask me what I did before the last five years unless they are trying to recruit for a C-suite or VP.

17. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 1:22PM UTC

    Hiring for the tax benefit is huge at my employer. I am astonished at the inexperienced people they hire. Get yourself on some kind of public assistance if you qualify and you will get hired in a heartbeat because employers get tax credits in that situation as well.

18. BarbaraDecember 25,2023 at 1:45PM UTC

    Employers get a tax break for hiring people on public assistance? That’s weird. How does that incent employers to pay. a living wage?

19. AyianDecember 27,2023 at 1:32AM UTC

    It doesn't. It used to work as intended, but the further minimum wage gets from a liveable wage, the more it's just a way to take further advantage of people. There's a huge conversation to have around minimum wage vs living wage, automation and increases in productivity leading to shorter hours to perform the same task, inflation, our government structure, the violence inherent in the system, and the cobbled together safety net that people often are over bad day away from needing but simultaneously are shamed for using if it becomes necessary, but it's well outside the scope of this post or even this platform.

20. Tammy Wakham CurtisDecember 25,2023 at 1:25PM UTC

    I completely agree with you, I am in my mid 60s and wear an hearing aid. I have been out of work for four years and I have been turned down because of this situation . . .

21. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 1:42PM UTC

    Nasty and unreasonable reply. Not helpful and sounds pretty sour graspes your own self.

22. GirlBossanova934974December 25,2023 at 1:43PM UTC

    First off, MBAs are quite valuable. Of course, it depends on the university and subject area. Yes, there is plenty of age discrimination out there. However, I think the discrimination has far more to do is paying someone $10,000-$30,000 (or more) less than you or me. Of course, the output is NOT being measured. NEVER IS! When the company has to hire someone else on top of the person they hired, that is NEVER discussed. As far as veterans are concerned, I don't know how you discovered that was the reason the other candidate was hired. Companies rarely if ever let you know why the other candidate was hired. Tax credit? It is not that much. The amount varies from $2,400-$9,600. AND OF COURSE, there are filing fees + money spent on direct labor or contract labor to get that credit. Working with the Federal Government to get a tax credit can be a very difficult and very frustrating job.

23. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 1:43PM UTC

    There are quite a few grammatical/ spelling errors in your post.
    So although everybody is capable of making this types of error, it isn't a great reflection of your schooling/education.
    While I can see that there are certain industries that are looking for specifically younger players, there are just as many that are not. I am very aware that seasoned workers are targeted when companies are forced to reorganize due to financial concerns.
    However, you need to broaden your horizons and look to industries or positions that could benefit from your skill set. FYI, I just got hired at 67 for a position I have never done with a state agency. So seasoned workers can and do get hired.
    I can tell you that the accusations of agism and blaming veterans is a dodge. And threats to sue; No Bueno. It prevents you from looking at yourself. Quit pointing fingers and look internally.
    Work on yourself and get that "bitterness" out of you mind and vocabulary. I am sure this is being transmitted in any interviews that you might of had in the past or get in the future.

24. _December 25,2023 at 1:45PM UTC

    I see that you have frustration among other difficult emotions. I also see that you've put in two possible external reasons for not being hired. In one (ageism) the frustration is quite understandable, as well as the sense of powerlessness.

    For the othe (vets) , I'm not quite sure why they earned more of your spleen than employers, when if they are applying for the same job, they're likely in the same boat, and your peer. I see that vets were defended already by spouses, and while nice for the vets, it misses your angst and your point. Before anyone comes for me, I am a vet, and I maybe get why another group of job seekers was used for emotional release.; as a way to flesh out the external locus of control.

    Now, it might feel ok to use blame to protect your ego, but it won't help you get what you need. Some thoughts:

    1. A career coach can help you with presentation- be it anything looks or communication wise that is outdated. They can help you present your resume as well.

    2. If you really feel like you can't escape ageism, look for remote positions or only interview remotely. Don't let them form an impression of your competence from the likelihood that they would want...

    3. With your time, find free classes and certs online and volunteer. Feed your soul with progress and accomplishments and you may not need to look for other groups to ease the hits your ego is taking.

25. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 2:24PM UTC

    Put your experience back on. All of it. I think removing our leverage is a bad thing. Why would you level the playing field with people of lesser experience??

26. AyianDecember 27,2023 at 1:26AM UTC

    No one who had to read resumes to screen for who to bring in to interview is going to read through all of that. This is terrible advice. Discussing the rest of your experience and how is is applicable to the role is what a cover letter is for.

27. AnonymousJanuary 4,2024 at 6:29PM UTC

    Works for me and my peers. You do you. But then we are applying for higher level positions probably.

28. AnonymousJanuary 4,2024 at 6:30PM UTC

    Hardly anyone reads cover letters.

29. Georgia SinghDecember 25,2023 at 2:36PM UTC

    Networking and attending conferences might help.

    Let me uplift you: if you let it be about "Ageism" then it will be. If you let it be about how you have supported the industry and provide examples, then it will be about your successes.

    Make that resume reflect your wins. Get on LinkedIn and start offering advice. You have an MBA, write an article.

    And I agree the process should be equal, but it's not. And we've gone back 70 years in advancement for women. Today, you have to mentally fight for the job.

    I wish you the best.

30. Dangerously CheekyDecember 25,2023 at 3:07PM UTC

    Work on your basic office skills and start building a business consulting, editing and writing in your field. Look at minors that might be needed to shore up your undergraduate degree, it can be done through many institutions outside of the IVY's. https://www.myplan.com, https://www.dumpyourdegree.com, https://www.sfa.ca --editing certificate program

    Network with professional editing and writing groups.

31. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 3:07PM UTC

    When companies are trying to diversify, it happens.

    Sometimes a male vet will be passed over because the other candidate is a woman or a minority. Or you can find a situation of any combination of the above.

    As for hiring vets in general, companies prefer them partly because they're used to working hard and never giving up.

    As far as ageism goes, I'm with you. Very difficult to prove. Unfortunately it feels like most companies value cheaper labor (who are also much less likely to fight back) over experience these days. Plus they feel like they will have that employee longer. But remember, many of us were hired at one time over an older candidate, and were happy about it.

    That said, keep at it! It's most companies, not all! As with any job interview, you have to emphasize what you can do for that company.

32. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 5:57PM UTC

    I was hired at 64 for a high paying managerial role at a big company over two years ago! Focused on what I could do for them and demonstrated a flexible growth mindset and I was hired. Do not give up!

33. Esther WormanDecember 25,2023 at 3:31PM UTC

    Wow. As a Navy wife, I beg to differ. Veterans choose to put their lives, family interaction, well, basically everything on hold so they can serve. Believe me, being in the military is no treat! So, if occasionally priority is given, I vote yes. You will find the right position if you keep plugging away. Veteran shaming does no one any good. Just saying..

34. Georgia SinghDecember 26,2023 at 1:05AM UTC

    What if we change what you are saying to read: "...being a black woman/unwed pregnant teen/over the age of 55/highly educated woman/American Indian/black man/functioning alcoholic is no treat! So, if occasionally priority is given, I vote yes." (Do you still vote yes? I didn't think so.)

    These folks didn't have a choice.

    I agree about the Vet shaming, it's not ok to shame anyone. It's also not ok to hand a job to someone who isn't qualified (vet or not.)

    The bubble is bigger than you think.

35. Katherine Metres Akbar, Interview Coach & Resume ExpertDecember 25,2023 at 4:11PM UTC

    Getting a new job is like dating. If you go into it with preconceived notions about how people will not give you a fair shot, you will lower your attractiveness. You need to start by reprogramming your mind. Note and work on it until you believe and are excited about this fact: the perfect employer is out there hoping and praying for someone just like you. Example: Yesterday at dinner, my cousin was talking about how she won't hire millennials anymore due to bad experiences with them; she only wants mature candidates.

    I agree with the lady who said that you need to put something people will appreciate on your resume to explain the last four years, such as medical leave for a problem that is now resolved, volunteering, caring for an ill family member, world travel, etc.

    Since you are getting interviews, though, you may also need to work on your interview skills so that you delight hiring managers, and they can't wait to get you on board. I made a video to explain who to do this, and you can find it here: https://www.yeswriting.com/interviewing/

    Please let me know if I can help you further. Best wishes and happy holidays!

36. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 5:26PM UTC

    did you mean Genz? Because a millennial is 30-35 years old, a Good age for the working force.

37. AyianDecember 27,2023 at 1:23AM UTC

    Millennial does not refer to any specific generation and therefore is often used as a catchall for ageist prejudice and bigotry.

    Gen Y / Echo Boomers are between 25 and 45.

38. Katherine Metres Akbar, Interview Coach & Resume ExpertDecember 28,2023 at 7:05PM UTC

    She said millennial.

39. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 6:40PM UTC

    Ageism is definitely a thing, but applying to new jobs does not guarantee you get hired. It is good that you took off some of the earlier years of your experience as no one ever posts a job asking for 30 years of experience.

    For the 2 interviews you had perhaps they selected the other person for other reasons, your sour grapes around not getting hired are not going to help you get a job. And suing? for not getting hired, you would have little to sue for.

    Best is to get over it and reinvent yourself and try to take a more modern approach to the job search, work your network, take the experience that you have and share your knowledge with others who may benefit from it. Write a blog, speak openly about your expertise without being boastful but do it in a humble giving way. Take those connections that you make a build those into connections where others see your value and want to take you on. Good luck to you.

40. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 8:08PM UTC

    Is your job search technique working for you? Are you networking? It works best. Put yourself out there on social media and attend in person gatherings. Talk to people. Upgrade your elevator pitch. Ageism is a problem as it's an extra hurdle to jump but it's all about attitude. Don't get hung up on what they may or may not think about your age. Concentrate on what you can offer to the employer. Are you up to date on technology? It changes at warp speed. AI is the new thing. Get on board and/or at least show a willingness and enthusiasm to be involved in the new way of doing things. This along with your overall experience and scope for the job will score points. When you get an interview, sell yourself! Consider this question "Why am I the best candidate? What accomplishments have you delivered to past employers? How did you do it? How did it help that employer? 4 years of unemployment is a big gap. Are you prepared to explain what you have done in those years? Did refresh your skills? Did you learn new ones? Have you kept of with changing trends in your industry? Can you enthusiastically, not apologetically, explain your time away? I suggest you take a close looks at these things and regroup, beginning with changing your attitude. Lastly, I disagree that veterans do not deserve priority. They gave up years to keep our country safe. Many come home with a disadvantage because of their sacrifice. Yes, I believe they deserve priority.

41. AnonymousDecember 25,2023 at 8:56PM UTC

    This post is not a reflection of a polished professional being passed over for tax credits. Ageism definitely exists but you can’t claim ageism simply because the hired candidate is a different age than you. After four years it appears you’ve grown bitter which is understandable, but the job market is incredibly competitive and you’ll need to adapt,

42. Amy GrimshawDecember 26,2023 at 1:30AM UTC

    I am a hiring manager and I can definitely say that I hire the best candidate for the job. There’s something you’re doing or saying during the interview to make the manager feel you’re unqualified. My advice for you is to work on your interpersonal and interview skills. Are you sure you check the boxes for the positions you’re applying for. Companies don’t just pick a veteran because they are a vet and you’re older than them. They don’t see you as the right fit for their culture. Do you really want to work with people you don’t get along with. Are you educating yourself on the company, and giving your ideas how you will improve the team. Are you asking the right kinds of questions? Are you interviewing the hiring manager to see if you will vibe with them. Skills are just that… When I hire I’m not looking for someone with an impressive background and degree, those things are requirements. I’m looking for flexible, availability, and some one who will truly be a team player. The people I turn away are ones who don’t do this. I don’t care how old you are what you look like or what your life is like. I care you will get the job done and get along with others and don’t cause unnecessary drama and problems.

43. maria roseDecember 26,2023 at 1:56AM UTC

    I have to agree with this response to the OP, in the sense that you may have to evaluate your presentation in the interviewing process which is the in person experience. You may have the right skills but today’s world expects you to also present yourself as forward pushing in your reactions to in person conversation when presenting yourself. Does your audience see you beyond the scope of what you have written down on your resume. . Not knowing the full scope of your skills and the area of expertise you are applying for a position in, I can only assume that you’re looking for position in a non-beginner level job in a profession where have to outshine the other candidates to be competitive against the others. Each job applied for, you should be presenting yourself as the best option candidate for that specific company by selling how you will fit your skills to their needs.

44. Crystal HowellDecember 26,2023 at 1:33PM UTC

    Try AARP. Org, they have an extensive list and network.

45. AnonymousDecember 26,2023 at 1:43PM UTC

    Caution, any time you down grade anyone else's qualifications and never and I respectfully say NEVER put down our Vets and opportunities that are afforded them. Putting your value over them or anyone else is so heart shattering. Respect the Vets. And how dare you think you know it's only due to a company tax right off, you make me sad knowing that you're redirecting the reasons as to why you may not have been offered a position within the last 4 years. Respectfully IMO I would suggest you looking at common denominators in all of those attempts or any interviews to see what needs to change. I have a couple of ideas but I think it's up to you to discover. Wish you well.

46. AnonymousDecember 27,2023 at 1:47PM UTC

    So full disclosure, I did a lot of typing and not a lot of deleting upon reviewing my reaction. Apologies to the tone, not the sentiment please note, but the lack of compassion and frustration you must be feeling of not getting a job after all this time. I believe that a lot of discovery on your part will help you move forward in securing what has been waiting for you. We often sit in judgement when we can still address with more kindness and compassion, that includes my lack of response that came off as a reaction. I do wish you well.

47. Ashton King-KonDecember 26,2023 at 2:14PM UTC

    Suing for not getting hired?
    I have worked as a recruiter before and based on your post - my assumptions as to why you didn't get hired are that your post comes across with a major educational bias for starters. You give the impression that you feel having a degree is the only qualifying or important part of a job when 20 years experience doing the job is, in many cases, better than anything the education could have taught you. Also you immediately jumped to blaming the company, blaming the vets, blaming just about everyone and everything but yourself. If that's your attitude in general it's very hard to hide when interviewing they WILL pick up on it and you will very likely be seen as a drama queen. Someone who gossips, starts alot of sh**, and passes blame to anyone but themselves and thinks their education makes them better than anyone else and deserving of things over others they know absolutely zilch about. (Vets will get their education paid for so unless you had access to their resumes you have no idea their education or qualified experiences and are being extremely judgemental) - I promise you it's the "I'm better than anyone and can do nothing wrong it's all everyone else's fault" attitude is exactly why you aren't getting hired. No workplace wants that toxicity in their culture. It's a psychological hazard to their other employees to hire those kinds of attitudes.

48. AnonymousDecember 26,2023 at 2:58PM UTC

    I see where you are coming from but think about it... I can totally understand how frustrated she must feel, especially after putting in the hard work to obtain those degrees to end up without any job opportunities in the last 4 years, that alone can change a person's outlook to the negative. I appreciate you provide constructive feedback but that was not what I originally got from her post. I found the post to be more hurtful and disappointed than anything. I agree that the possibility of a new approach maybe helpful but the delivery could have been more supportive...

49. AyianDecember 27,2023 at 1:19AM UTC

    Think about the privilege one must have to not work for 4 years and not be homeless. Then apply that privilege to blaming companies for hiring veterans instead of her with her education and experience. I am not sorry to say that Ashton was spot on in their calling out negative behavior. Being out of work is no excuse for shitty attitudes and blaming other people. The common denominator is the OP. They didn't come here asking for help before now (presumably), they came to complain about still not being hired. Privilege + overqualification + refusal to look inward for answers first = negative posts like this one

    Unless what you meant by support is to hold her hand and be gentle about the rebuke for shitty attitudes, there is not support to give here. OP is a grown person fully responsible for their feelings and capable of modulation of them, as evidenced by 30+ years at Fortune 500 companies. You don't get that kind of experience without those soft skills.

50. AyianDecember 26,2023 at 3:23PM UTC

    You don't get to decide what an employer values.

    You say ageism is the biggest problem, but you spent over half of your post complaining about vet hires. Perhaps attitude is more of a factor than you realize. When I am interviewing people for an open role, I am simultaneously psychoanalyzing their use of language and take into consideration how well they would fit into the social landscape of the people with whom they would be working. Soft skills and team fit are often a greater indicator of success in a role and company than the decades of work performed in previous roles; this bears true for people I've hired as well as positions I've been hired into.

    Consider trimming your resume down to 10 years and remove any references you may have for what years you attended school if they are present. 10 years is generally accepted as sufficient and really only as far back as people who are screening resumes want to read. If that limits your resume to less than 3 roles, consider instead removing dates from them if time frames are listed directly on your resume.

    I found it helpful to change the format of my own resume to something a little more intuitive when I had trouble getting bites. If you haven't already and perhaps even if you had, try a different layout for something fresh. Sometimes even resume style can give the impression of age if it hasn't been revisited lately.

    Finally, consider asking ChatGPT for resume help. There may be keywords that it suggests to put in your resume that you have not yet considered.

    I am not in any way suggesting that ageism is not at play, but 30 years of experience and a master's degree shouldn't put you in a significant disadvantage in roles that require 15-20 years of experience already. I hope you figure out the thing or things that make your search a successful one.

51. Malaika WardDecember 26,2023 at 3:47PM UTC

    Well there are other groups as well such as women, minorities, and those with special needs. Maybe you should cast your net in a field that wants women to work there. Also have you thought about becoming an Employer... ? Start your own business 30 years of experience. Wow! Maybe it's time to train and mentor others.

52. AnonymousDecember 26,2023 at 7:13PM UTC

    Perhaps you should consider where you are applying and for what types of positions. You might want to consider looking a nonprofits who would value you knowledge and experience. Or, you might want to investigate alternate positions that would allow you to apply your background. For example, after working in marketing in my 30s, 40s and early 50s, I realized I was often the oldest person in the room. I began to think about how I could use my marketing and communication. I came up with fundraising and had a successful career there, successfully applying for my final position when I was a couple months shy of my 70th birthday. Think about where to best apply your skills and please stop blaming others because you did not receive an offer.

53. AnonymousDecember 27,2023 at 12:11AM UTC

    If you spent 15 years with fortune 500 companies but the past 4 year unemployed your experience might be viewed as stale.
    I would try to get some current experience by contracting or consulting smaller companies where you can use your skills for growing companies that don't need you full time or permanently.

54. AyianDecember 27,2023 at 1:37AM UTC

    I've worked in finance, payroll, and tax and I read the actual legislation when changes are made nationally and in any region I process payroll and/or taxes in. There are financial incentives for hiring vets. A quick Internet search can fill your knowledge gap here. Take care.

55. AnonymousDecember 27,2023 at 5:13AM UTC

    A college degree & MBA are not the deciding factor. I've found specific expertise and experience is what wins job. Try everything to get to work. Consult, contract, temp work. It's important to show you are continuing your growth as a professional.

56. Bradford McCormickDecember 27,2023 at 1:18PM UTC

    They gave the jobs ot vets? That's kind of difficult, isn't it? These people have served (or at least supposedly have served...) their country. They signed up to die if necessary. If they were incompetent for the position that would be one thing, but if they are competent and just you are even more experienced, at least it's not going to somebody undeserving.

    Agism? Is any of it that they would have to pay you more? And are you really EAGER to multitask in a fast paced environment or would you rather someome appreciated your wisdom?

    Can you survive without the job? If yes, why work any more? I have never been more productive in my life than since I got made redundant at age 72. Well, that's not exactly true: I got 2 years off to get a doctorate. But then it was back to the job were I lost what I had gained. I literally lost most of my memory and all of my will to live in the last decade of my time on the job.

    As for merit, I got laid off (permanently) in a reduction in force. I was the 2nd oldest. The oldest at about 76 was a lady whom the company itself had given a title which meant: "Distinguished engineer". They sent us a piece of paper with everybody's age to prove it was not age discrimination. I was nobody but she was a person whom the company itself had raised to an exalted level and she was out too. I guess they had a surplus of wisdom (or watd to save a few bucks?)?

    Your effective income in income minus outgo. If there is any way to cut the outgo to be able to live modestly but comfortably, and you can't find work that will work for you as well as you working at it, why expend the rest of your life that way? I got my doctorate 30 yeasr ago. I study most of the day now, because I enjoy it. What I was sdoing at work was meaningless but also exremely "demanding". The last two projeects I worked on got killed before they shipped. Again, the company must have had a li=ot of money to waste. But the managers were having fun in interdepartment wars (which they were losing; we had a better product but worse politics).

    Ignore everything I've said if it is not relevant to you.

57. Mireille Wozniak-MichalakDecember 27,2023 at 1:34PM UTC

    The issue is your 4 years of non-employment. What do you have noted for those last 4 years? Did you volunteered? Did you gone back to school? Did you take any classes, get certifications, etc.? Did you take personal time off? You can say you took time off to care for an ailing relative (do not get specific with medical conditions, etc.). The other recommendations below should be applied as well.

58. Angela MasonDecember 27,2023 at 2:35PM UTC

    I am MORTIFIED to read such comments!
    It is because of the VETERANS that we sleep in peace!! Is this attitude obvious in your interviews?

    Granted, I understand your frustration about being out of work and ageism. However, I vehemently disagree with your projection onto the Veterans who protect us.

    You have the right to voice your opinion. Please note that companies also receive tax breaks for hiring welfare workers, students, and trainees.

    Please reconsider projecting your abhorrent feelings towards our VETERANS. They should be honored and revered for their service.

59. Glenport LifeDecember 27,2023 at 7:22PM UTC

    If that is the hiring practice at that place and you feel it is "unfair" than it doesn't sound like you'd like it anyhow, so maybe they are doing you a favor?

60. AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 11:07AM UTC

    Fortune 500 companies are not the place for you. Smaller companies tend to be more flexible about who they hire.

61. AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 1:09PM UTC

    I feel your frustration from a different perspective. I am not a Vet. I didn't have the honor you experienced. I was medically disqualified, challenged DODMERB's decision via a U.S. Senator, and the DoD still refused to reverse their decision. I have three-Masters degrees. I'm currently pursuing a PhD (I'm not interested in an academic career). I wouldn't have pursued the additional education beyond my first Masters - if I had found a career break with my first MA in December 2007. I pursued the additional education with the thinking that I might be able to attract an employer in the different degree fields. I finished the Masters at the start of the Great Recession, during Brexit, and the Pandemic. The only kind of work I've found were in temporary customer service/hospitality positions, a short-term stint working for a State Senator, and an unpaid internship. It seems as if it is difficult (but not impossible) to enter the political/international field without a degree from a Washington based university, an Ivy League university, or Oxford/Cambridge. I empathize with your angsts.

62. AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 1:36PM UTC

    Thank you for your kind words GenX Leader. I did fail to mention in my post that not only does the veteran serve, but their families serve as well. I not only served, but then continued to be a military spouse for years after my service so I have been on the other end of it. Family members all take a backseat to the one in uniform, but you work just as hard, so I want to take this time to say thank you to all of the military (and first responder) spouses as well. If not for you keeping the home fires burning, taking care of everything that they can't because they are away, the service member could not do what they do. Your support makes it possible for them to keep doing what they are doing. You all deserve just as much thanks and gratitude for sharing your loved one with the country/city/state. I know it is not easy, it can be downright lonely and overwhelming at times.

    KUDO'S to your hubby (and your entire family)! I LOVE that he (and you) continues to serve and show appreciation to his team! I know what it feels like to be on duty on the holidays, what you all did made those first responders feel like they were part of a family. Well done!

63. AnonymousDecember 28,2023 at 3:53PM UTC

    The post isn’t about you. Let’s focus on meeting the needs Of the OP.

64. _December 28,2023 at 7:09PM UTC

    That's what I was trying to say a few days ago! Back handing someone clearly having a response does not help and might actually entrench the negative feelings

65. AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 2:09PM UTC

    Here's some feedback: cut it out, seriously.

    This is too much, and obviously you are feeling some kind of way "I'm offended." Welcome to the US, and welcome to the party the rest of us have been forced to participate in since 2016.

    And, please stop throwing yourself on the cross for a choice you made.

    "Thankless?" What more do you want? A discount at Lowes? You got it. Free housing? You got it. Free/reduced food? You got it. Deals on houses and cars? You got it. Free education for you and your family? You got it. Free healthcare? It's yours!

    One thing is for sure, if you want respect... give it without expecting anything in return. By demanding it, one comes across insecure.

66. AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 7:14PM UTC

    Agreed. And well said.

67. AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 7:16PM UTC

    Yes, you’re not following the rules of

    this forum.

68. AnonymousDecember 29,2023 at 7:20PM UTC

    The OP has shared a vulnerability. They are seeking guidance and advice about how they can improve their situation. By making this afor/vs against topic about veterans you are taking the focus away from that outcome. If you want to make a comment about veterans in the workplace, the appropriate mechanism is to start your own post. You are welcome to your thoughts and feeling of Course, but please consider the setting. This “stage” here in this post belongs to the OP.

69. AnonymousJanuary 5,2024 at 6:48PM UTC

    You can only control your side of this. You wouldn't be happy working for a company with these types of values. Some doors remained closed for a reason, and the challenges you (and so many of us) are facing have nothing to do with your level of talent.

70. AnonymousApril 17,2024 at 2:04PM UTC

    I think your expectations are set too high. Start with smaller companies. You may have to take an entry position or a position that does not have the salary you are looking for. Education matters, but so does experience. But you also need to negotiate. If they don’t offer the salary you are looking for, then maybe ask about promotions, etc. Talk with them. Don’t have an attitude that you are better than others, just bc you have an MBA.