At my prior company, they are cleaning house.

23 Comments

1. Anne KrookAugust 1,2023 at 3:53PM UTC

   Sounds as though they are incentivizing her to quit. She should run the numbers: how much will she get from PTO and severance? how long would she need to say to make that much money? December is not that far away, if she is ready to retire then, and it may also be that they will discover that the two laid-off employees work needs to get done by someone else, i.e. your friend. If she can afford it, it would be a good time to talk to an employment attorney. It may be that the company will allow her to get to her retirement date to avoid a lawsuit.

2. Rebecca MillikenAugust 1,2023 at 4:37PM UTC

   I agree she should weigh the options.
   No matter what she does, she has a target on her back. If she thinks it's age related discrimination, she can consult with an attorney who specializes--usually the first visit is free and she can get an idea of what her options are. Those cases are hard to prove and most lawyers won't bother, but it depends.

   She could ask for her suddenly low performance review to be clarified and pointedly ask if it's due to age--putting them on notice that she's aware of what they're trying to do, but that could backfire and cause someone to fire her. I also live in an at will state and there isn't much recourse unless you have proof.

   I did have a coworker who sued a big box for age discrimination and won a settlement. I had worked with him there and at his later job. However, he had the time and money to pursue it. He was already well off and retired and he just wanted to prove his point so he stuck with it. But it's not easy and it's not worth the hassle unless you like to fight like my former coworker.

   If she's certain she's going to get fired, maybe she should just look for any job to bring in a paycheck until she's old enough to retire and quit.

3. AnonymousAugust 1,2023 at 5:08PM UTC

   I would first consult an Employment attorney to understand her rights with regard to PTO and how she should prepare for termination (what documentation to collect, notes and documentation required for a claim for Ageism).

   Make sure she keeps copies of the company handbook and all Employee policies governing Employment etc. Also make sure she maintains a home file containing her paystubs, pto accruals etc.

4. AnonymousAugust 1,2023 at 5:48PM UTC

   Proving ageism is VERY difficult. She would have had to have been documenting it all along, as well as her co-workers would've needed to be as well.

5. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 12:35AM UTC

   From what you have written, it sounds like she should quit with notice — her best bet is to consult an employment lawyer to review her options and perhaps (if advantageous to her) help her negotiate the best possible termination agreement.

   To maximize her PTO and benefits, can she tell them that she will be resigning as of her birthday in December? An employment lawyer can advise and perhaps help her negotiate this.

   As another commenter mentioned, proving ageism is difficult. Further, employers have defenses to ageism that they do not have under other types of discrimination against employees.

6. misskelleypAugust 2,2023 at 4:51PM UTC

   Excellent advice

7. BethBAugust 2,2023 at 12:24PM UTC

   Use the PTO to job hunt!

8. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 12:36PM UTC

   Payment of the PTO is going to depend on what the company's policy says on it. If it's accrued, they will have to pay it out IMO. It may be difficult to bring an ageism suit, especially if they let multiple people go at the same time that are in the same "age group". She should quit with notice and plan to take all the PTO alloted by that date, it would be good to have that defined in a calendar format.

9. misskelleypAugust 2,2023 at 4:28PM UTC

   Payment of the PTO is indeed per the company policy, but FL does not require payout of accrued unused PTO (https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/). That's a lot of PTO to lose, if I were her I would do as others have suggested, use it to job hunt. She could try to quit and file for unemployment calling it a constructive discharge, but FL is probably tough on that, and if the employer fights it, she might not get unemployment if she quits. On the other hand, she'll have a bunch of PTO which is worth more than unemployment...

10. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 1:40PM UTC

    Ageism is VERY hard to prove. She should see a lawyer right away to determine if there is any chance she has a suit. I was in the same situation and had two lawyers turn me down even though I had screen shots and evidence of their previous ageism. It is harder to prove than sexual harrassment.

11. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 2:58PM UTC

    I'd be giving my notice. I would not leave my fate up to them knowing I was next.

12. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 4:52PM UTC

    Talk to a lawyer now, tell her to definitely get a legal advisor to help her make that decision.

13. CosmosMomAugust 3,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

    If her birthday is on December her cashing out PTO will almost get her there. If I was in that position I would quit and cash out. But get the cash out in writing. Mr last company screwed me over on PTO

14. Elizabeth HicksAugust 3,2023 at 12:47PM UTC

    this isn't an age thing, this is how modern companies now work. it happens to younger people too. the boss wants their own staff and if you don't vibe they will just eliminate the problem. the boss will create problems in the event there are none and you can't really win in this situation. best bet is to start looking for work, no one stays at the same place for more than 5-10 years now anyways. it's not 1995. I'm sorry you had to learn this the hard way and will send positive energy. I had a family member recently rage quit over a similar issue and they were horrified to see how much things had changed. (she assumed she could slide back into the high school she had worked at previously, no dice unless she wanted to sub as is really hard to find FT for competitive candidates,let alone less competitive ones. she wound up just staying retired)

15. Mary BalmerAugust 3,2023 at 1:04PM UTC

    Can she announce her plan to retire now? December is only 4 months away. They could offer early retirement to leave sooner.

16. AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:09PM UTC

    Exactly. Announce retirement for December now.

17. AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 1:23PM UTC

    In the state of Florida, because it is a right to work state, terminated employees are paid any outstanding PTO earned. Sue for that as a class and this employer will settle very quickly.

18. T-August 3,2023 at 1:55PM UTC

    Quit

19. AnonymousAugust 3,2023 at 4:14PM UTC

    She should talk to an employment attorney - they can advise her on how strong her case is. Most will offer a free consult, but it’s worth it to spend an hour to get honest feedback. I recently went through an age discrimination case with my former employer- very similar situation as your friend. Company ended up settling before going to litigation (most do).

    Based on all I learned from my own case very recently- your friend likely has a very solid case. Either way — if she opts for severance with the lay off, still seek out an attorney as they will likely be able to get her more $$. The company is clearly working to get rid of her and they’re going to try to pay out as little as possible. Tell her not to sign anything without legal consult.

20. Barbara WhiteAugust 4,2023 at 12:50PM UTC

    Excellent advice. Best of luck!

21. ElizabethAugust 4,2023 at 12:16PM UTC

    At will does NOT mean they can do anything illegal. As others said call an employment attorney and also her local department of labor. Be careful not to just complain to the DOL, but give calm, specific examples she is concerned about and questions of what can and cannot be done. I have found they react better to a business attitude than anger since they get so many angry calls, often without merit ((at least here they do). Maybe she's calmer than me, but thought I'd pass that on!

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23. Jonny WarfJune 12,2026 at 9:23AM UTC

    Bad deal