Thoughts - small company, toxic CEO - give that feedback in an upcoming review?

Anonymous

October 21,2023 at 7:37PM UTC

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Thoughts - small company, toxic CEO - give that feedback in an upcoming review?

I've taken on a somewhat new role with a very small, private company after working 25+ years in another industry. Shortly after joining, I learned about the founder/CEO's toxicity. Arrogant, belittling, chaotic, bullying, micromanager. No one has worked there for more than 9 months in YEARS. I do not receive the same direct rudeness as everyone else (I've stood up to her and she backed off). As the most sr leader, I have been trying to extract the ceo out of situations or at least be the go-between to all (even the couple that don't work directly for me), but it's a losing battle. And a huge time-suck. I've verbally communicated many issues and written emails - which the ceo has accepted, saying that was not the intention. Things calm down for a bit, but shortly after, the ceo goes back to the same negative behavior. Recently ramping up even more - but now has also been stating offensive things that the new jr employees are taking note of. In writing and sharing with others in the organization.

I believe deeply in what the company does, so my hope had been to fix the issues, but it's been fruitless and these new statements are on another level.

Do I outline all of the information and share it with the ceo, even though it's inflammatory? There is a review coming up, which would be the perfect timing. I have not b/c employees were concerned about retaliation (given the ceo is very childish in addition to the other traits). I cannot guarantee that won't happen.

Someone recommended to just stay out of it and find another job, as saying something would more likely make my job worse since this person cannot help themselves and always reverts back. I don't want an enabler of bad behavior. And, honestly, even if I decided to 'just leave', at my age it's difficult to find other roles so it likely will be a while. PS no HR group.

Recommendations on approach if I do talk to the CEO? Other thoughts?

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AnonymousOctober 22,2023 at 1:21AM UTC
You can give that feedback to your CEO during the review but at the same time you need to find another job. You aren't going to fix them and you will only get dragged in deeper. This is who they are. If you okay with their behavior, if not, then don't. I know it feels good to get them under control for a little bit. You feel that you are making a difference and improving but then you feel responsible when they slide back into their default behavior because they will.
Recommendations on approach. I would write it out and then I would practice your delivery to a trusted person outside of the work space or if that is not available, your reflection in a mirror. Try to stay as flat emotionally as possible.
I was in this situation and I was asked to leave after I delivered my "feedback" to the CEO. They were also the founder and in the end it boiled down to being their company. I even spoke candidly to his boss during my exit. PS, We did have a global HR department. It didn't help.
Good luck. Only you can know when you have had enough. But I would personally start looking today.
KatOctober 22,2023 at 5:06AM UTC
I don't see any value in giving feedback to the CEO. Either she will agree to change her ways and then back slide as she has before, or she'll get angry and fire you. I realize you care about the company's mission and people, but you know you can't fix this. Stop wasting your time and energy covering for her. Put that energy into finding a job at a company with a similar mission but with a better company culture and more mature, rational CEO.
Sidney BristowOctober 22,2023 at 6:44AM UTC
I'm pretty sure I worked for the exact same person you describe. At least, the same spirit.
There was at least one manager who stood up to her, but couldn't never make much headway and ended up quitting. There was another manager who took the bulk of the abuse with hopes of shielding other employees, to no avail. She ended up suffering mentally and eventually quit. I quit. Each EA she had would quit inside of a few months, and this person could never see that SHE was the problem. A few folks talked to board members about the problems and the turnover and the abuse, and as long as the money was still Rolling in the Board did nothing. I say all that to say: you can waste your time, energy, and sanity trying to raise a person who was raised wrong the first time -- or you can move on.
AnonymousOctober 22,2023 at 1:40PM UTC
Having worked in a similar situation I can tell you it is a waste of time to try to "fix" this. Best to move on if you can, simply for your own mental health.
Amy GrimshawOctober 22,2023 at 2:24PM UTC
Don’t talk to him you will get fired. Just do your job or find a new one.
AnonymousOctober 22,2023 at 2:44PM UTC
Wow. I work in the same environment! I enjoy my job very much and have learned to stay out of the drama and away from the wrath of the nut job in charge. I keep my own standards and truly appreciate the excellent work our company does and what has been built in spite of the crazy lady and her flying monkeys. Everywhere I’ve worked there’s been some sort of unbalanced hierarchy nonsense. I’ve learned over the years to enjoy the show, do my very best , find the colleagues that get it and enjoy getting paid and doing good work.
AnonymousOctober 22,2023 at 3:39PM UTC
Wow! Sounds like we work for the same org! I would not suggest talking to the CEO unless you have another job lined up! As much as I applaud you for being the go between, it is only going to wear you down more. My manager did the same thing for me and now he is leaving because of how he was treated. I certainly am grateful for him putting the bullseye on his back, but it wasn't fair. Do you have a board that you can send an anonymous message to? Otherwise, keep your head down, pick and choose your battles and prepare your exit plan. I know it is sucky, but your mental and physical health and well being are more important!
AnonymousOctober 22,2023 at 5:05PM UTC
I’m just here for the comments. I’m in a very similar situation. Glassdoor has many negative reviews about the CEO so it’s not just my opinion and she won’t change.
(Except when I started, I i had a different boss who was lovely and she left)
AnonymousOctober 22,2023 at 11:44PM UTC
Please repeat after me. It is not your job to fix her. Lather. Rince. Repeat. Please do this at least 100 times a day or whenever someone comes to you wanting you to run interference. Trust me, that will become your reputation and your downfall there.
Sometimes, small private companies can be worse than the vast money-grubbing mega-corporations with layers of bureaucracy. Especially with someone like this at the top of the heap. Nowhere to run or hide.
Sandy EarlOctober 23,2023 at 9:12AM UTC
So it sounds like a lot of your time is spent on interactions that go like: (CEO): bullies somebody (You): “Hey, bullying isn’t nice, you shouldn’t do that. (CEO): Oh snap! I didn’t expect that to be interpreted as bullying… I get that you are into the goals and mission of the company but it really sounds like you are fire fighting rather than pushing the company agenda. If other employees are scared of retaliation, hear that and don’t bring their misery into this review - they’re probably right and it could make things worse in the short term (and if no one stays longer than 9 mo there’s not much long term to consider). You can’t fix this person. It doesn’t particularly sound like they feel like they are doing anything wrong or that they have any desire to change. If you don’t care to spend your work hours smoothing over a tiny tyrant, that’s understandable and you should start a job search.
Deb HillOctober 23,2023 at 12:42PM UTC
I'm surprised the turnover rate isn't a topic of discussion within the senior members of the company. Costs time and money. You giving direct feedback will be confrontational but in the context of employee retention could be the way in to preventing some interactions. Formalising reporting structures to minimise time-consuming micromanaging etc - I do wonder how bosses find time to micro manage!
I agree that this isn't your job and you will not change this person but if you are reluctant to leave minimising interactions and defining boundaries ahead of issues could help.
AyianOctober 23,2023 at 12:59PM UTC
The CEO already knows it's them, they just refuse to take responsibility to change their crummy behavior. You cannot fix them or their organization. If you share your conclusion/diagnosis with them, be prepared to be let go immediately or without notice in the very near future. If they had wanted to fix the high turnover rate, they already would have or at a minimum they would have assigned diagnosing it to senior management. I have given this exact feedback to several small business owners with the same turnover issues and the result is exactly the same, despite the personalities and specific toxicity being very different - to the point that I expect only one response: immediate or very short term, no notice termination. Choose your path wisely.
Tamela Absheer-BrownOctober 23,2023 at 4:02PM UTC
This sounds like a similar situation I was in and I stayed longer than I should have stayed. In 4 years I witnessed 30+ people walk out the door. No one (my hiring manager included) stayed longer than a few years. It was toxic and detrimental to my mental health and my relationships with my family. Leaving was scary but the best decision! You cannot change people, least of all those in power. I recommend learning as much as you can, and keep an eye on other opportunities where you can apply your new skills! These people are not worth your mental health!
AnonymousOctober 23,2023 at 8:27PM UTC
Honestly?
Since you want to stay if for no other reason than you fear not finding another job then I would stay positive, enjoy your life and stop trying to fix things. Everyone is very well aware of the turnover and the reason. No one wants it to change bad enough.
AnonymousOctober 23,2023 at 8:36PM UTC
I'd start looking elsewhere, leave an anonymous Glassdoor review, and keep your head down.
AnonymousOctober 25,2023 at 4:46PM UTC
Approach it from a point of collaboration and helping, and perhaps see if the CEO is willing to let you take on the things where she is toxic. If not then do look around for something new. A person who is unwilling to change is not likely to and unless you can live with that then it is fruitless.
AnonymousOctober 26,2023 at 11:39AM UTC
It sounds like you've already given feedback which has been pretty much ignored, so it doesn't frankly sound like the CEO wants to change/improve - and in fact may enjoy running their own company so that they can get away with this behavior unchecked. I feel like your intentions are great but that it'll all be for nothing (and possibly put your job at risk) if you try and give constructive feedback.
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