So I haven't been fired yet, but written up for viewing anothers Merit Increase letter that has been left out in the open, and asking for another raise.

59 Comments

1. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 2:23PM UTC

   Can you please explain the scenario that resulted in these things? What horseplay? I can't follow what you are talking about to give you advice. Start at the beginning.

2. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 4:40PM UTC

   I also can’t follow the merit increase letter and horseplay. Something about this narrative doesn’t make sense.

3. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 8:34PM UTC

   Horseplay in the lab I reported, to start at the beginning would be a 10 pager. Bottom line, because I found another employee's merit increase letter, the management brought everything from under the sun to write me up.

   Because I found an employees letter, I asked for a raise and explained what I did on the job which was comparably more than the other employee.

4. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 8:32PM UTC

   Horseplay in the lab I reported, to start at the beginning would be a 10 pager. Bottom line, because I found another employee's merit increase letter, the management brought everything from under the sun to write me up.

5. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 8:34PM UTC

   Because I found an employees letter, I asked for a raise and explained what I did on the job which was comparably more than the other employee.

6. AnonymousJuly 17,2023 at 6:00PM UTC

   And you revealed that you found and read the letter? In asking for an increase you used the fact that you read another employee's merit letter right?

7. Joyce Breitweiser HallJuly 16,2023 at 2:26PM UTC

   It sounds like you may be being set up to fire so you can’t collect retirement benefits. If that is possible, see an attorney right away.

8. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 8:33PM UTC

   I think I'm being set up as well.

9. AnonymousJuly 16,2023 at 8:37PM UTC

   Is the same person writing you up? Have you violated any company policies? Is your job performance meeting expectations? Might be time to consider the advice of an attorney. Document document document everything.

10. AnonymousJuly 17,2023 at 2:53AM UTC

    Sending long emails is never popular. People value their time, and the higher someone is in the organization, the more valuable their time is - literally! Write a long draft, and then leave it in your drafts folder if you need to vent.

    "Grab a coffee and sit back and listen..." is not the type of tone that people in management are used to using and receiving. I have started using ChatGPT to check my emails for tone. Start with "Analyze the following email in terms of professionalism and business tone" then paste your draft. Another way to use it is to tell it "Rewrite this email, keeping it to one paragraph in a professional and collegial style."

    Absenteeism is fireable in most places, so they have you on that one. Just go forward with well documented requests for time off the next time you need to be out.

    If management has accepted the behavior of your coworkers, then reporting it to them in the future is fruitless and puts a target on your back. If what they did was dangerous, you may be covered by a law or internal policy, so check on that. But be aware that there could be blow-back.

    Can you negotiate early retirement? Some places would rather cut a deal than go through all the steps required to terminate someone. Might be worth a try!

    Good luck, in any case.

    There may not be anything you can do at this point but keep your head down and don't make work for management.

11. Heather CutlerJuly 17,2023 at 12:45PM UTC

    Thoughtful and actionable advice!

12. AnonymousJuly 17,2023 at 5:59PM UTC

    Good advice. I too found issues with the tone of her delivery. Many of her problems may be self inflicted. Nonetheless, I think the best course for her would be to go on short term disability (depression is a disability) which would give her time to seek therapy and explore other career opportunities. The place has become toxic for her and no good will come sticking it out. I just don't think she should quit. Short term disability is her best choice.

13. AnonymousJuly 17,2023 at 12:59PM UTC

    What do you want to do? Do you need permission rom us to quit this miserable place?

    Look, this doesn't sound good. You've been written up several times. Honestly, it doesn't matter that they gave you a "letter" and not others. It doesn't matter that you say this, and they say that. They hold the power, not you.

    How long have you worked at this place?

    You do sound depressed and a bundle o nerves. I don't blame you, dear one. And those long emails...I have done that a time or two in my employment and looking back, I can see that my thinking was contorted and I was angry when I sent them- probably the same is happening to you. Since you are struggling with depression, can you see your primary care provider and maybe take some time away? Get in with EAP immediately, and see primary care immediately. I believe this will protect your employment status, esp when primary care writes a note and says you need to be take a couple weeks without pay...you need to sit back, BREATHE, and look at how you're experiencing this all...look at your responses....I think this position is not healthy or you, but you're in a state to not be making good decisions right now...Go see PCP and take two weeks away rom work....pause and reset. Yes, they are building a case to get rid o you, but you can thwart that by stepping back a bit.

14. AnonymousJuly 17,2023 at 1:31PM UTC

    Your next step is therapy and an openess to getting help.

    Do what's best for you after discussing the various options with your doctor.

15. AnonymousJuly 17,2023 at 10:59PM UTC

    I agree with your getting therapy. There is something really off about your post- it's hard to follow. I picked up that you've been absent without notice, that you send long emails to those who evidently don't want/appreciate/respect them. And there is something odd about "horseplay." With all of this, I'm not surprised you are on notice.

    Basically, if writing is necessary to your job, I can see the problem. If emailing people your in-depth drawn out thoughts is not part of your job, then that's a problem.

    You say your management doesn't like how you communicate- another problem, and it sounds like they may have a point- going off this post alone.

    Do get the help you need and take a step back. If short-term disability is an option for your to take while you get the help you need, then do so. It may also protect your job. At least see if FMLA is available if short-term disability is not. (FMLA may not pay but protects your position while you recover). In other words, try to get help and maintain your job so you can get through the next few years.

16. Afo Ogbeyalu KaluJuly 18,2023 at 12:41PM UTC

    Start looking for a new job. Also, if you are not in agreement with anything written in your disciplinary action, write rebuttal statements as a counter narrative, and supply your proof. Do not sign off on statements you believe to be untruths.

17. Cindy GloverJuly 18,2023 at 1:18PM UTC

    I didn’t read the other comments due to time constraints but what I’m hearing from you is a need for some serious professional training.

    Why would you ever look at someone’s merit increase and to top it off, use it as the opportunity to request an increase? Respectfully, I’d have fired you on the spot. That shows me quite clearly you do not want to work. You come across as undependable and are too busy worrying about how to get out of your responsibilities instead of putting that energy into your job.

    please forgive my bluntness but I would be doing some serious soul searching about what you WANT to do in a job rather than inconveniencing everyone else.

18. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 4:53PM UTC

    Way to be on a support group where women are supposed to support each other. Bluntness is fine but I find your post to be zero empathetic of their situation...there are 2 sides to everything and I sure would hate to have you on my jury.

19. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 5:11PM UTC

    Naw, Anonymous isn’t wrong. Blunt sure, but that isn’t necessarily wrong. And her suggestion to seek additional professional training is an good one. Obviously there are a lot of problems with OP and management. You either face it and ask for help or look for another job. Or take leave and work out your personal problems - OP is experiencing some depression, that needs to be addressed ASAP.

    Especially should be addressed is if you happen to see anything regarding someone else’s salary, PIP, annual review, whatever one should NEVER mention that to anyone. It isn’t your business and in some places can be a fireable offense. If the document was left out in the open, you can turn it over. It is never a good idea to admit you read confidential information and now you want in on the action.

    OP seems to have numerous problems with management, and perhaps a better response is to encourage her to begin lookin for another job. Sounds like a male dominant environment and those can be very tiring.

    This is a supportive group. Anonymous said nothing wrong. A jury judges on the facts they are presented. It is not suppose to look for ulterior or hidden motives/meanings.

20. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 6:39PM UTC

    Part of supporting each other is being honest. I appreciated her forthrightness. You can't always sugarcoat stuff and I agree that reading someone's merit letter and then using it to argue for greater compensation for herself was wrong. Her email was also unprofessional. Our sister is in need of a mentor who can provide professional training, etiquette and guidance. Guess you'll add my response as equally blunt.

21. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 6:56PM UTC

    This is not kindergarten. Nobody should expect coddling That is not support that is enabling. She needs to hear the truth from someone with an outside perspective.

22. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:13PM UTC

    10000% agree

23. Cindy GloverJuly 18,2023 at 10:39PM UTC

    You don't know anything about me - I'm being 100% honest as I would hope those would be with me. That does NOT mean I don't care or wish her well.............

24. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 4:00PM UTC

    well then wish her well, your toxicity is not helping her it's harming her.

25. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:13PM UTC

    She was not toxic. But your constant back and forth arguing is toxic.

26. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 5:48PM UTC

    being 100% honest can also be 100% condescending and unsupportive. Honesty does not equal support.

    People come on here for supportive honesty.

27. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 3:41PM UTC

    Just wow. You are entitled to your opinion (although you state it as fact). How about offering suggestions rather than personal criticism? It's a lot easier to knock someone down than to pick them up, isn't it?

28. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:12PM UTC

    I don't think she was knocking her down, but giving honest advice. Sugar coating is not helpful.

29. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 5:47PM UTC

    It sounds like the "honest advice" is just a great cover for being condescending and yes, knocking someone down who has come for SUPPORT as well as advice.

    And how is it that no one is addressing that, as OP clarified, OP is not the one engaging in horseplay but is the one who reported it?! This seems to be one of the major problems this company has with OP - that she reported the unprofessional behavior.

30. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 4:51PM UTC

    It sure sounds like your employer is trying to force you out. Seek the advice of counsel and file a formal complaint of harassment with the EEOC. Then if they buy you out find a better employer. The most troubling thing you said was:

    >I have been forced to not send them emails because my emails they feel are long and drawn out

    AND

    >was forced to not send those emails during company time, because they say it can be dealt with during normal business hours. I work late shift, and who's available?

    Clearly this passive aggressive behavior on their part is coming from either legal or a clueless person in leadership. If they are complaining that you haven't communicated and then also when you do which is the right approach? Start to forward to your personal email any emails or correspondence you have to support what they are doing to you. And also any time you do email do the same in a bcc. Make sure you write and document everything. When you file the complaint be sure to use the words hostile workplace and harassment.

    As for viewing someone elses merit documents that is definitely not something that you should have done and if you got caught doing this hopefully you did apologize for it. Do stop the involvement in the horseplay and banter in the office as this is not helping you to stay the course and be employed.

31. AnonymousJuly 18,2023 at 8:29PM UTC

    There is nothing left to do but wait until the company let's you go.

    I would make sure your resume is up to date

32. Jennifer JemeenaJuly 19,2023 at 12:22PM UTC

    That’s a violation of the NLRA. Lawyer up!

33. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:11PM UTC

    Where are the violations of the NLRA? Folks love to play lawyer or say get a lawyer and 99.99% of the time are wrong.

34. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 12:40PM UTC

    I honestly can see why the company would try to push you out. It sounds like you make yourself a headache. I don't have all of the info, and only what you posted here, but I can honestly say that you do not seem to be making Management's job very easy.

35. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 3:31PM UTC

    No, you do not have all of the information about the OP's situation. Your comments to the OP are very insensitive and based upon a thimble's full of knowledge.

36. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:10PM UTC

    Neither do you. We are basing our responses based on what she has revealed.

37. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 12:51PM UTC

    I have never made a comment on here but please, bluntness aside, this is NOT the time nor the place to be tearing someone down who is coming to us for advice. Especially one with anxiety and depression. To the OP: it feels like you already have your answer, but you are seeking validation. You know that, one way or another, you will be leaving either of your own volition or by the hand of someone else. Though you are close to retirement, your mental health is more important. Dust off your resume and seek work that you can do without all the negativity. Find a job you can look forward to going in to. No need sticking around somewhere you're not wanted. Best of luck!

38. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:09PM UTC

    Giving honest advice is not tearing someone down.

39. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 11:40PM UTC

    That statement is true, but when judgement and condemnation are used under the guise of, "honesty," that is not helpful. The difference between the two is advice versus statements telling someone they are the problem, or that "I would definately fire you for..." ,etc - that is not providing helpful advice. Those comments are not neutral and only serve to diminish someone's feelings. Just because someone's feelings may not be your own do not mean they are not real or important. We should be building each other up.

40. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 5:43PM UTC

    That "honest advice" can take many tones. Most of the tone on here has been judgmental and condescending. Including your comment to which I am now responding.

41. Cindy GloverJuly 26,2023 at 9:55PM UTC

    Well said

42. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 12:53PM UTC

    Obviously, you are not happy at the company. You should have been looking for a job that is a better fit for you. That would explain why you are depressed. It's not the company trying to do anything to you. You are trying to force yourself into a position and culture that goes against your natural grain. Why are you still working there? Go find another job at a place that will make you much happier. You still have several years to be working , and you should be proactive about your mental and spiritual well-being.

    BTW unless you are 75 years old, don't assume that you are retiring anytime soon. Many people find that they need something to occupy their time AND working brings in money to support those travel and hobbies that you want to do.

43. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 5:41PM UTC

    "BTW unless you are 75 years old, don't assume that you are retiring anytime soon."

    I find this to be worded in an incredibly condescending manner. Just fyi, if you are not trying to be condescending, then it might be better to assume a more humble tone that allows that OP might have done a little bit of homework on their retirement.

44. Milissa JacobsJuly 19,2023 at 2:26PM UTC

    If you think that you can tolerate the nonsense, stick it out. It seems that they are trying to irritate you into quitting before you would retire. Walmart calls that 'coaching for removal.' But life is short, if you can find another place to finish working until you retire, I would go in that direction.

45. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 4:14PM UTC

    You don't need to "say" anything - your words speak quite loudly. You completely missed the point of the other posters. You are judging the OP. You offer nothing positive.

46. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 6:14PM UTC

    So you think you're offering something positive by jumping on someone offering honest advice?

47. maria roseJuly 19,2023 at 5:17PM UTC

    As a person who worked the late shift, I can understand why you feel that you are being kept out of the loop in the communication network at work BUT most businesses don’t need those scheduled on that shift ( late shift) to have all details except the basic details to perform their job duties during their scheduled shift. I gather that you are supposed to communicate directly with one supervisor but chose to communicate with another who was not your direct supervisor—in other words you didn’t follow the chain of command pattern in place—and since you didn’t mention the why you chose to not communicate directly with your supervisor, we can assume some dissatisfaction with your supervisor ( obviously not clearly presented because it takes away from your point of view of not liking the job situation because of how you perceive it).

    Let me put it bluntly—you like getting the paycheck but you hate the job situation but you’re not looking for another position elsewhere. Rather than finding a way to make the job situation better to deal with ( to continue getting paid) you are indirectly contributing to getting yourself fired-figuring that you can get unemployment benefits. What you forgot while posting your complaints is that you have the choice to up and quit your job at any time. I just hope that you find a better suited position for your expectations of what you want in a job and move on.

48. AnonymousJuly 19,2023 at 7:09PM UTC

    Unfortunately, this compay owes you nothing. So if you need the money you need to follow the company rules. That is for all of us. If you owned the company you can do what you want. It sounds like that is not the case. You are working for someone else's company and sounds like you do not want to be there. Someone else mentioned unemployment, it is harder to find a job when you are unemployed and an older employee.

    If it was me, because I need a paycheck, I would kiss their a$& and apologize for your comments and follow directions. When you are not working, I would apply anywhere and everywhere. I would keep my mouth shut, follow both supervisors orders in a professional way, because burning bridges by being insubordinate hurts you more than them. If they fire you, they could fight your unemployment benefits because of insubordination.

    Most importantly, I would contact your psychiatrist and therapist and deal with your mental health. If the company offers FMLA, maybe you file and take time off to get well. Lastly, it sounds like you are not happy working for this employer. As you are searching for the new job, try to stay humble and greatful for receiving a paycheck. So many people, including middle age AND older people wish they had your job and healthcare benefits. While you are at work, I would be happy, do as I am told, and respect the bosses, and follow the protocal /policies of your company. Keep in mind, you are doing it for your own wellbeing, dignity and livlihood.

49. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 1:32PM UTC

    I am so so sorry for what you're going through. It must be really hard especially if you're doing this without support.

    I have been in your shoes - experiencing passive aggressive, undermining treatment most of all with the cloud of uncertainty about my job security, all compounded by personal challenges and all made worse by depression and anxiety.

    I was advised by my physician and therapist to take a medical leave, mine was eventually 8 months long but during that time, I invested into reminding myself of my strengths and becoming more self aware. I also came to terms with the fact that my employers held all the power and that I did not have the emotional strength to pursue a court case. I also couldn't survive the mental anguish of gathering documents to protect myself and show where they were wrong. So, I decided to play to my strengths, invest in my learning and be humble. I also quelled my fears by holding on to my faith, after all I got the job without knowing anyone and if I believed in the divine, I needed to show it by trusting that He will help me.

    This totally shifted my focus and my attitude. I became a cultural safety facilitator, apologized when I made mistakes and also got involved with other things I loved outside work like writing, podcasting and community activism.

    With increased confidence, I started looking for a new job while putting in my best in my current job despite being on a performance management.

    I also appreciated my experience for helping me grow and focused more on the positive, believing that everything was working together for my good. I confessed to trusted colleagues who had been in the organization for a longer period about needing help when I did and I've been blessed.

    I started learning meditation and breathe work and this has helped my mental health greatly. I bought a used copy of the book "The Body Keeps the Score" from amazon and it explained a lot scientifically about what I was going through in my brain but also gave some helpful tips I coud apply to help myself. I learnt more about my personality from 16personalities.com and that helped me become more self aware. I downloaded the app "Insight Timer" and I use it for meditation, breathe work and other mental health support.

    One key thing is that you can't control others bit you can control yourself, so focus on working on yourself. Don't worry about the employer, except to ensure that you are making their work easy by doing your best and apologizing where you made mistakes. For example about looking at someone's documents and asking for a raise. Also let them know you appreciate your job and would like to work on any areas the notice, for example writing long emails and using work time to follow up on your employment issues. Show them that you're willing to do better and that you can be trusted.

    I pray that you can find something to apply from my experience and that everything works out for you.

50. AnonymousJuly 20,2023 at 8:13PM UTC

    Thank you for your response. It was beautiful and well received.

51. AnonymousJuly 21,2023 at 12:37PM UTC

    Based on the information you’ve given, all of the things you’ve been written up (minus the one where you have a letter of exception) are valid reasons for a writeup. To further clarify, unless that merit increase letter was tacked to the wall in the break room and highlighted it wasn’t in the open and any HR I know would have done much more severely than a write up for violating private communication to another employee. It’s not wrong for you to know but only if that employee willingly gave you the information. From what I can glean you are also committing multiple acts of insubordination. As a manager myself I would never have allowed someone to stay on my team who had been written up so many times. It’s a huge liability for the rest of the team. If you’re really doing these things: engaging in horseplay, violating employee privacy, insubordination, then you are a liability and creating a toxic work environment. And importantly, it needs to stop right now, either because your employ terminates or you have a major attitude adjustment. That may sound harsh but you need to accept some responsibility here. I am not discounting your mental health concerns and I deeply empathize as I’ve been there. It may explain but does not excuse the behaviors you’ve exhibited. If you are eligible for FMLA or willing to go to a doctor and become eligible for disability this may be the best solution for the short term. Depression is volatile and serious, and deserves time and attention that you may not be able to give it while working full time. It sounds like your relationship with your company is burned so they probably won’t be willing to be flexible with you in other ways. If none of this is viable then yes you should look for a new job now and try to keep the peace at work while searching. Keep in mind your company may still mark ineligible for rehire and tell your prospective as much so try to mend fences as much as possible right now to help you get to a company where you want to be productive and positive, and importantly perhaps one that will give some more flexibility for mental health treatment.

52. maria roseJuly 21,2023 at 6:25PM UTC

    I have to agree with this response however harsh it sounds because the individual has created ( knowingly or unknowingly— doesn’t matter which) the situation which causes the workplace to have use write ups as a means of communication and notating the issue. When any workplace documents with write ups, they are 1. Showing that they are communicating with you and offering solutions and 2. Collecting validations In writing if termination occurs. What is not being accepted by this individual is their own personal responsibility to be professional in the workplace despite their personal mental state of mind. The sooner this individual realizes their role as a contributing factor the sooner they can move forward. Yes, potentially losing a job can cause mental stress but what happens if the actual issue is not the job per se, but the perception of expectation of the reality in the job performance. No job requires coworkers and managers to mingle together and disregard the ethics of their roles at work and if they do, then they face the consequences of their actions, which can include termination. Your current personal mental state has nothing to do with doing what you’re supposed to do as required by the job.

53. AnonymousJuly 21,2023 at 10:50PM UTC

    Thank you, and that's the heart of what I am saying that OP is not understanding or refusing to accept. I myself had an employee recently like this who always had a reason that they shouldn't have any culpability. Missed a deadline? Well, but. Got into a fight with a colleague? Well, but. Deliberately went against instructions? Well, but. Their communicae with others was rude, laissez-faire, and insubordinate, and ultimately, they were terminated with no eligibility for rehire.

54. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 5:37PM UTC

    Anonymous

    07/22/23 at 12:50AM GMT+2,

    What is OP "not understanding or refusing to accept"?? OP came back to the first response (presumably yours) and explained that they were not participating in the horseplay and unprofessional behavior; rather, OP was the one who reported the unprofessional behavior to mgmt.

55. AnonymousJuly 23,2023 at 8:50AM UTC

    There are other issues besides the misunderstanding regarding the horseplay that was problematic in OP post. Reading another employee's merit letter was one of the gravest acts she committed. She not only read the merit letter but then attempted to "get in on the action" by asking for more compensation based on what she read in said merit letter. Quite unprofessional and troubling. No one would want someone on their team that exhibits that sort of behavior.

56. AnonymousJuly 21,2023 at 7:25PM UTC

    It was not I that committed horseplay, but I reported it to Management. Employees information was left out in the open. I can't stop my eyes from viewing, nor can I take back what I saw. Can't put a cat back in the bag that has been let out. My report to them was not recieved well. Horseplay within the lab is not professional, and no buyer would love to see that dealing with millions of dollars.

57. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 6:12PM UTC

    I'm sure we don't know the full situation, and even so, while some may be valid, others maybe not. In any case it does sound like they are trying to push you out. I would start your job search immediately. Even if you were to stay, the job is clearly making you depressed and it might be hard to repair your reputation/brand. I was once fired for "Making accusations" I didn't even know that's something you could be fired for. In hindsight, it was one of the best things to happen because I was able to start fresh. A few years may not seem like that much, but the stress could be taking years off your life. Plus, you might find a job you like out their better where you may not mind putting in an extra year or two to increase your retirement funds. Best of luck out there!

58. AnonymousAugust 10,2023 at 4:41PM UTC

    With all of those write ups you are lucky to be employed, let alone receiving raises. Nothing here, that they have done is out of line. The letter of proof may exonerate one out of how many instances? For someone who is close to retirement age this is all very poor behavior. On behalf of the person who merit raise you read about, how dare you? That person with a larger raise probably deserved it more.

59. AnonymousAugust 10,2023 at 10:47PM UTC

    Obviously you're in some kind of mood to not know what fully happened.