Help please - Which way do I go?

30 Comments

1. Kris WolframDecember 3,2023 at 1:53AM UTC

   Have you refuted the Pip and put your comments in writing? How were your past reviews? I would wait it out and get unemployment. I wouldn’t be worried about a term on my record.

2. AnonymousDecember 3,2023 at 3:28PM UTC

   Go to your doctor and get a note for you to be on medical leave for work related stress! I was in a very similar situation. I collected state supplemented pay while my company paid a portion for medical leave. You just need to call your Corp office and tell them that you have a note from your MD and they cannot even ask the reason (HIPAA)! Hire a resume writing company to revamp your resume and start applying to other companies immediately. Reason for leaving previous employer, "reorganization in the company" is completely sufficient. I was hired by my new company and started the Monday after my "medical leave" ended. Best decision of my 30+ year career! They cannot let you go while you are on medical leave. Go back to work one day only at the end of your leave and hand them your resignation letter. Buh-bye!!

3. AnonymousDecember 3,2023 at 5:17PM UTC

   I do have short and long term disability at work. I also have a significant amount of accrued vacation time. Will I be able to do both? I will need that accrued time to keep me afloat for the next month or 2.

4. AnonymousDecember 3,2023 at 5:19PM UTC

   Also, if anyone knows of a workplace strategist, please let me know. There are so many factors in this situation, and I need to plan my exit that would benefit me the most.

5. AnonymousDecember 3,2023 at 11:43PM UTC

   Document EVERYTHING! If you have any meetings, follow up with an email and bcc: your personal email account. Forward all documentation to yourself, saved as pdf if possible. If you live in a 1-party consent state, make recordings. If you can find a way to hint that you'll file with EEOC or some other suit, they may offer a good severance package.

   I'm sorry this is happening to you, but you'll be glad to be out of there. A change at the top is often bad news for everyone else far too often, unfortunately.

6. Ingrid MorelandDecember 4,2023 at 2:24PM UTC

   Document and send copies of anything related to you. I don't recommend hinting about eeoc. That will get you out the door fast

7. AnonymousDecember 4,2023 at 5:25AM UTC

   If attorneys believe that you have a wrongful discrimination case, why not select one of them to help you negotiate a termination settlement?

   A negotiated termination with a cash settlement to you (your attorney will take up to 40% if working on contingency) will allow you to resign and start your own business.

   Note: easier to negotiate a termination settlement than to pursue a court case.

8. AnonymousDecember 4,2023 at 1:16PM UTC

   I’m so sorry you have been putting this position. Trouble is we get used and abused in Work I thought I was doing the right thing thing going back to work early after being very ill. I couldn’t even stand up straight in a lot of pain but realised too late thanks for nothing. So I don’t know if you’ve got anything on this person as a boss and the way they’ve treated you fight fire with fire or go on the sick with mental health issues it doesn’t matter just get signed off. Give yourself breathing space and look for a job then. And if there’s any way you can get anything on the company and sue them then I would I know it’s a lot harder impact to do, but you must have friends there who could stand up for you specially being there. 10 years is a cruel old world.

9. BethBDecember 4,2023 at 2:06PM UTC

   Worry less about your record. There is a reasonable explanation you can give about this to any prospective

   employer, new owner wanted his own people.

   if you are serious about starting a business, use this time to get started. Draw up your business plan. If you need samples of your work for a portfolio make sure to get them now. If there isn’t going to be a non compete, make sure you have contact info for any clients you want to get in touch with. You don’t wait until you are fired to start. Start now so you can hit the ground running.

10. AnonymousDecember 4,2023 at 2:37PM UTC

    I’m not an attorney and I’m not sure the rules in your state.

    As hard as it is to do - If you wait out the PIP and they do decide to fire you, you should qualify for unemployment benefits. I believe you would contact your local unemployment office to start the process once you are officially terminated.

    There is a “waiting period” before the benefits start and it’s only portion of what you make while working, but it’s something to help you stay afloat while you look for a job.

    I had applied for unemployment benefits when I was terminated years ago. I received the benefits until I found a job. However, at some point I received a letter stating my employer had appealed (and basically I would potentially have to repay the benefits i received). I did not have a lawyer but I talked with someone at unemployment and I think I had to sign a form saying I had not done anything illegal or unethical which caused me to be fired. I then did not have to repay any of the unemployment benefits I had received.

    Please note - If you do choose to quit, you would probably not get unemployment benefits. If you can prove the circumstances of your situation though, as far as harassment and extreme hardship in rare cases the benefits can be approved.

    As far as healthcare insurance coverage, most companies won’t tell you that your coverage should be good until the end of the month regardless of whether you quit or are fired. It may potentially be good for longer, but I would suggest you fill any medication you take so you have it regardless of what you decide to do. You may possibly qualify for Medicaid while you are between jobs. Apply for assistance at your local Department of Public Welfare to find out what programs - (including food stamps, utility assistance, and rental / housing assistance) that you will need to make ends meet until your business is up and running or you find another job.

    And finally, any lawyer will take about 40% of whatever settlement or benefits you get if they win your case. This decision is up to you and you alone. It can be great to have someone on your side to help you. I decided not to go that route personally but I did strongly consider it. One had told me based on my discussion he felt we could win but with everything going on at the time, I decided I didn’t have anymore fight left in me. Talk to a friend or your family before you decide.

    No matter what happens, please know it does get better. It’s absolutely terrible to work so hard and so long for a place to suddenly be targeted for no reason except this new person doesn’t like you (from the sounds of it). You’ve got this and you’re not alone even though it may feel that way right now. Hang in there! Hugs!!

11. maria roseDecember 4,2023 at 7:19PM UTC

    Follow this person’s advice, no employer can deny you getting paid unemployment benefits, unless you did something illegal as listed in your employment handbook agreement—using a PIP to fire you doesn’t disqualify you from unemployment benefits. Now you should check out the unemployment benefits as per your geographic location as for the length of time you can receive unemployment ( varies by state). Employers may occasionally try to fight paying unemployment benefits which only occurs when they don’t want to pay the required by law unemployment insurance and it doesn’t affect your unemployment benefits and gets them fined . One last thing, if they are firing make sure you get a printed copy of the paperwork that they want you to sign to take with you and make sure they sign both copies too. —Avoids the hearsay problem on both sides. You will be okay, and may this be a way of making your future employment better.

12. AnonymousDecember 4,2023 at 3:10PM UTC

    this is complicated on many levels. Firstly, I ABSOLUTELY agree with others that you should wait out the PIP. if you do lose your job, you'll at least get unemployment and opportunity to Cobra your insurance. Secondly, there are clever ways to maneuver a PIP- so I would do as your attorney advises to protect yourself. Now, if you work in an "At will" state, I wouldn't pursue discrimination charges unless you've got a TRAIL of support documentation. (I had someone at the EEOC tell me - 5 years ago- that they are overflowing with these cases and they typically take 2+ years to settle, etc). If you work in an at will state, there won't be much you can do. (I've lived your situation and 2.5 years ago, had to leave a very good job at which I was excelling due to a new CEO who was a total jerk)--And so, my advice is to keep working, follow your attorney's advice for the short term, keep looking for a job, stay under the radar during the holidays, keep applying (girl- NO ONE IS HIRING RIGHT NOW, IT'S YEARS END), and move thru this. I am sorry this is happening to you; happened to me at age 57....Remember, Attorneys will take your money all over the place but if you're in an "at will" state, you are largely powerless. Be careful. Oh...I did have one friend who was put on PIP (she was a star performer but crashed after her husband died)--She went to her doctor and got a short term medical leave for her anxiety/depression....this has extended out for months upon months so the company hasn't been able to let her go....Think you might qualify for a medical leave? If so, speak with your healthcare provider and see if you can get a "stay"....Keep us posted!

13. Yvonne QuilesDecember 4,2023 at 3:28PM UTC

    Excellent advise. However, keep searching and applying for work as most of the jobs I've had in my career started November and December. A) The mindset and mood is festive for employers and jobseekers believe they'll just ride the holidays with the belief no one is hiring. The latter opens opportunities for you. B) Not true in most cases. Employers are interviewing for start dates in January, they don't have to pay for holidays and operations tend to slow down. Employees take vacations and those at work are dismissed early in the day. Wait out the PIP. Good luck.

14. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 2:13PM UTC

    Do this if you can.

15. AnonymousDecember 4,2023 at 5:28PM UTC

    If you have spoken to a few attorneys the answer here is simple, select one- hopefully one that will only want a minimal retainer until the get monies, have them file a defamation case with the EEOC and FEHA and that means they have to address it externally to the company.
    Do this ASAP because if you wait until they fire you then you have less recourse. Follow your attorneys guidance to the letter. Good luck.

16. misskelleypDecember 4,2023 at 5:51PM UTC

    You definitely do not have a defamation case, and even if you did the EEOC is not the one to handle it. This is poor advice. To the OP - ride out the PIP, at least if they let you go you can get unemployment, which will help while you transition. It sucks, but if you're in an at-will state (every state except Montana) they can let you go. Sorry this is happening to you.

17. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 12:05AM UTC

    ?

18. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 3:21AM UTC

    Unfortunately, PIPs can be detrimental and often riddled with inaccuracies.
    You need to formally refute it in writing and submit it to HR now. They can fire you at any point as I am assuming you are in at-will employment.

    If you retain a lawyer they can help you with a stronger game plan prior to the holiday break. Additionally, if you haven't done so already, consider documenting any instances of misconduct. I'd continue to work and wait until the fire you but apply to jobs.

19. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 1:25PM UTC

    This has happened to me before. I did write a response to the PIP but I did also try to complete the items from the PIP. Unfortunately, in my case the harassment got worse before the PIP was done and I quit for mental health reasons. I filed an EEOC complaint and then found a lawyer who will represent me (no money upfront). In the meantime gather all the evidence you have (e-mails, text messages, calendar entries). Also I kept detailed notes with names, dates, and specific details, this helped me when I talked to a lawyer.

20. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 1:31PM UTC

    Not sure which state you are in, but you may want to wait it out so you can claim unemployment while you look/start new business.

21. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 2:12PM UTC

    Let him fire you, you can collect unemployment for 6 mos while looking for work. It doesn't impact your future jobs like most people think. Just put "involuntary separation" on your applications.

22. Sami MacKayDecember 5,2023 at 2:17PM UTC

    As a woman who is 67 years old and still actively working, it’s tough out there. I’d scan your resume to be sure that most dates by which they can determine age are removed. I’d let it play out while still looking and then let them let you go. Yes, it is beyond disheartening BUT I’d also file an age discrimination suit against them immediately after. Any court worth its weight will see that a long tenured employee who suddenly has performance issues that coincide with a new COO is not the issue here. Also, do some online learning around AI, dust up your LinkedIn profile and use and curiously enough AARP is also another great source with a wealth of information. Try to stay positive and focus on the next chapter and what you want that to look like and don’t be shy about networking and letting people know that there’s a new you coming in the new year. Sometimes the biggest blessings come disguised as hard things. Best of luck!

23. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 2:36PM UTC

    As time evolves and social security provides (and advocates) for higher payouts at later ages, encouraging ppl to work into their 70’s, the business world needs to adapt. As “experienced leaders” ppl are expected to accept and adapt to the needs of the younger generations. Yet, this is not reciprocal. In fact seniors wear a target for insecure insensitive CEO’s and corporations who play games such as putting ppl on PIP’s that do not accurately align with their responsibilities or value they bring to the company. Maybe it is time for the baby boomers to rally. who is advocating for the seniors? Please excuse my ignorance, are there formal groups advocating to support seasoned workers and protecting their rights into their 70’s?

24. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 3:04PM UTC

    I feel your pain… I just went through something like this myself. Although my situation was due to a micromanaging manager coming into a law firm and tearing up a ruckus with no knowledge of how law firms work. This wasn’t her first rodeo in doing this, just by the way she acted and especially that she blocked me from every social media platform as if I was a a felon, stalker or something.

    I agree with all the commenters before me… try to ride it out. Take some vacation or time off to help with the pressure and stress. I was placed on a PIP and let go exactly two weeks after… it was like they couldn’t get rid of me fast enough. Once they have decided you are out, it is only a matter of time.

    Try applying for jobs now, like you have been doing. It’s going to be a bumpy ride, but maybe you will get lucky and get off the finding a job rollercoaster quickly. By them firing you, hopefully you should get some unemployment They will probably offer you Cobra insurance, but I recommend shopping around for more affordable insurance that fits your needs, because more than likely it might be cheaper than Cobra.

    Also document EVERYTHING!! Try to get proof of the discrimination, as in emails. If there are meetings concerning your PIP, follow up with an email about the discussion and the improvements you have made.

    This time period is going to be brutal. You will rather have someone that is watching every move you make or someone that ignores you and tries not to interact. Be on time, but don’t do more than you have to. In talking to co-workers, be cautious about your plans because “loose lips can sink ships. “ There are times that colleagues can take advantage of your situation to better themselves. It’s not right, but it happens.

    Try to keep your chin up, stay positive or fake it until you make it. Present your rebuttal soon to the PIP. It may not change the outcome but you will feel better that you defended yourself either way.

    With your experience, you will get hired again. Don’t give up and the job market has changed since you probably last applied anywhere. There will be ups and downs, but it will happen. Be positive about what you accomplished at your last job. Have stats, performance appraisals, projects you have performed and be ready to talk about them. You want to shine!! If a company really wants you, it won’t matter why you left or were let go. Keep the faith, we are all rooting for you!!

25. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 3:52PM UTC

    wonderful positivity! as the prior comments shared the reality of securing a position similar to your current position later in life is often met with challenges. you are not alone. best of luck!

26. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMEDecember 5,2023 at 8:31PM UTC

    Are you aware that there is a lot of hostality in your words?

    Yes, what you are going through may be painful and unjust; however, it is in your own best interest NOT to push management or the company into a corner.

    The company's corporate attorneys will get involved and their role is to protect the company -- not you.

    If you feel that you have just cause -- take a deep breeath before making any decisions about further actions.

    Consider working for a professional employment service as a contractor This will help you financially and they have all levels of projects.

    It sounds like you have a plan, put it on paper and work it. This is a challenge and not a stopping point.

27. AnonymousDecember 5,2023 at 10:26PM UTC

    OP here - what is hostile about my words? I am only speaking the truth.

    i know the role of a corporate attorney and my attorney also has a role. This is the problem with today’s society - fear. The fear of taking on corporate giants. This is why they have been getting away with so much. Well, I am not going to let them get away with it. The mistreatment has got to stop!

28. LORI-ANN BURLINGAMEDecember 6,2023 at 10:17PM UTC

    Your ARROGRANCE and HOW DARE THEY DO THIS TO ME attitude! Maybe it's Karma coming back to bite you in the ass! During your career, how many people have you stepped on?

29. AnonymousDecember 7,2023 at 4:56AM UTC

    None, but it seems you have since you know so much about this space. SMH.

30. m diroseDecember 6,2023 at 7:42PM UTC

    Lean on an employment lawyer with experience in hostile workplace & termination. It is worth the money to help you navigate your current employment & make the transition to your next employer.