In-person versus hybrid work arrangement

23 Comments

1. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 9:02PM UTC

   If the HM wants top talent the HM needs to learn to be flexible. This isn’t a fad, it’s been proven that remote and hybrid are just as effective as in person. To be honest if I was looking, this HMs management style screams micromanager, hard to please, and way too toxic, stressful. (Like what if my kid got sick, am I going to get written up to take care of them?)

   Also why is this HM so in adamant about in person?? Is it a control thing? Or just not comfortable in managing remote staff. If it’s simply a comfort thing, then they need tools and resources to become a more effective manager (which which help them but the company and their staff)

2. AnonymousJuly 22,2023 at 10:46PM UTC

   You always Cc him, his boss and your boss abd explain that while he demanded 100% in office. It was not practical in the current labor market. Now that he has loosened that requirement you are confident you will have better success with the ability to attract qualified candidates. YOU MUST ALWAYS DOCUMENT. just like he did. It's the only way you create a paper trail to cover you.

3. AnonymousJuly 23,2023 at 1:34AM UTC

   On the flip side - I personally have a remote job (almost 2 years in) due to experiencing vicious bullying about my physical disability when I was in an office. I get a lot of angry phone calls from third-party recruiters who are literally losing their shit at me because I’m not open to taking an on-site “contractor” job (no ADA accommodations and crappier pay). This one lady from Signature Consultants was actually beginning to scare me.

   Unfortunately, the labor market is just in a weird place right now and it sounds like a lot of people have misdirected hostility.

   But I personally would “print” those emails to PDF, send to my personal email; and send both my boss and HM’s boss stats on unemployment, hybrid/remote arrangements, etc.

4. AnonymousJuly 23,2023 at 12:33PM UTC

   I work for a CPA firm. A rather large national, but not a Big-4. The HM needs to wake up. There are fewer and fewer licensed CPAs choosing public. Industry’s salaries and benefits (including remote work) are so much better. In tax, your new hire can expect a harrowing busy season each year. A poor work environment can compound the stress exponentially. And this HM won’t bend. Sounds like a miserable job and the HM & your firm can expect high turnover in that position until this dinosaur wakes up.

5. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistJuly 24,2023 at 6:05AM UTC

   Remote and hybrid positions are most in demand in what I see.

   According to a recent LI article: "Nationally, just 11% of open jobs on LinkedIn offer remote work, but they attract close to 50% of total job applications as of May."

   Personally, I've worked remote for 15 years and I'm never going back into an office if I can help it. Not for one hot second do I miss stressful daily commutes, high heels or big dry cleaning bills. I get to breathe fresh air, don't have to sit under fluorescent lights, don't have to listen to anyone's boyfriend drama or share a gross refrigerator.

   Employees have seen the light and they're not interested in going backwards.

   In addition to being something many employees want, hiring remote and hybrid employees gives companies access to the best talent. Not just the best talent in their neighborhood.

   Companies who refuse to meet the needs of a 21st century workforce by insisting on a 20th century workforce, will lose the war for talent.

6. AnonymousJuly 24,2023 at 4:54PM UTC

   Geez, it's the blame the recruiter game...no ownership and no reality check for that man that the market has changed. I work in a similar capacity to you, my solution is this. Tell him you will put an agency on it and then see what the agency brings him, I will bet that they too show folks who want to work remotely. When he realizes you could have done that without a stiff fee he will change his mind. As an alternative post the role in your regional branch of the CPA licensing bureau ( or do that too) and then see what comes in from there. Most folks in finance don't need to be in office unless they work in close tandem with the business to build budgets that are in constant movement. Good luck but don't let him blame you, after all the hiring decision is his and if he is serious he will shift his thinking.

7. Kari HadleyJuly 24,2023 at 10:06PM UTC

   I have the opposite problem. I would love to be either hybrid or full-time in an office. I can't manage to get a job. I have over 20 years of senior level experience in product management and marketing. My problem? I'm 64. I plan to work another 10 years once I find a job. I doubt most younger people will be willing to dedicate themselves to 1 company for that long!

8. AnonymousJuly 24,2023 at 11:00PM UTC

   Not really the same, but I am seeing a lot of jobs that are worded so that if you put remote or WFH or hybrid as your location identifier, stipulate in the job requirements a significant if not full-time required in the office. I'm not sure how that passes muster with the job boards. This has happened both on LinkedIn and Indeed. It sounds to me that this is what this guy is proposing. Advertise it as a hybrid, but squeeze them into the office full-time. I wonder how many "hybrid" jobs are more than half-time in the office.

9. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 4:43PM UTC

   yea, I'm seeing roles claiming to be hybrid with M-Thurs in the office and only Fridays WFH. That is not truly hybrid.

10. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 6:24PM UTC

    This is my current situation. I was laid off earlier this yeah and am thankful to have landed a role, but I waste SO MUCH TIME sitting in traffic. I could be actually working during that time, but no. I was made aware of the schedule when I was interviewing, so it didn't come as a surprise, but no less annoying. Luckily, I do have flexibility if something comes up. My last employer gave people THREE DAYS NOTICE to be in the office 5 days a week. Email went out on a Thursday afternoon telling everyone that starting Monday, everyone was expected in office M-F. They were awful in a lot of ways, but that really was the icing on the cake.

11. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 12:24PM UTC

    unless it’s a 10 min walk no one wants to be in the office 5 days a week. If you have a cpa you have many options.

    I have the same issue when my boss says I need to hire local and gives me a budget 25% below my market (which is most expensive in the US)

    Just bring him qualified candidates with the note that only would move forward if hybrid, maybe he will get the point.

    I end up with zero candidate locally and end up with a remote hire

12. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 2:08PM UTC

    He needs to be told to chill in the most politically correct way possible. We recently interviewed for a journey-level business analyst position and only got 4 candidates to apply, even with multiple extensions, and all were internal. This is with a state govt. agency that's mandating 40% time in-office.

    So IDK what he expects from the market for a senior position, with credentials, if he's not going to make the position more attractive.

13. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 2:48PM UTC

    Yep, it's definitely tough.

14. Emily PhelanJuly 25,2023 at 3:02PM UTC

    I have a bad feeling you're going to find someone great and they're going to turn around and leave because he will renege on the flexible work option. I don't understand why people are SO against a hybrid model. "We" all kept "their" businesses going during a global pandemic, but suddenly, we aren't as productive at home? It enrages me. Truly.

15. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 6:57PM UTC

    Forbes just published an article stating that 100% in person jobs are not being filled. Hybrid and remote jobs are being filled in a much higher degree.

16. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 7:58PM UTC

    While I unfortunately do not have a solution for you, I can tell you from personal experience recruiting the past three years that the on-site positions are THE hardest to fill, regardless of job description, pay, etc. Folks who insist on 100% on-site need to come to grips that their offer is going to be last choice for the majority of job seekers, and those same people will be first out the door when a more flexible position comes along. I am seeing it over and over again. Best of luck to you.

17. AnonymousJuly 25,2023 at 10:35PM UTC

    Offer to buy him a Time Machine and a trip back to 2018 ?

18. Explorer539760July 26,2023 at 12:49PM UTC

    Wow. Your hiring manager is a piece of work. I’m a recruiter with State government and my biggest concern is that the governor will ho back up fill time in the office. Keep track of your emails and as my responses indicating the need for hybrid work. Get with your VP of HR so they are aware and can have your back should the HM get more vocal in their disapproval.

19. AnonymousJuly 26,2023 at 1:23PM UTC

    This post really piques my curiosity. Flexibility and freedom have always been my top values which were more important to me than moving up the ladder and salary. 2020 happened and the world shut down. I adjusted my mindset. I need to work. I can pivot and relax my grip on these values. I am open to doing whatever I need to do to get back on my feet. Sure I would like to have it all but there are trade offs. also want to feel that I am contributing to building up our economy. It sounds corny - I know. But I am in my 50's and that feels important to me whereas when I was young,, independence was my top value. Liife goes on and I can figure out other ways to gain independence with my employer. Service is slow because there is not enough staff. Supplies are backed up. I have been on quite a few informational interviews and people have shared that the productivity is not as robust as it was when people were in the office. Creative ideas are not flowing as much because you don't have colleagues to bounce ideas off or ask for advice when handling situations. I feel for you. It's a tough situation. I don't understand how you can be blamed for a tough market. Or why potential candidates can't loosen their grip on refusing to work in the office again. Good luck. Thanks for sharing.

    Apologies for grammar- typing on my phone .

20. Sarah StadtherrJuly 26,2023 at 2:36PM UTC

    I was hired for a remote position with the condition that I have two weeks training in office. My husband and I worked out the child care issue and I did it. Keep in mind I had a 13 mile DAILY commute that would take 30-90 minutes and there were not alternatives to get from where I live accross a major river to the work site.

    I worked remotely for 4 months and never heard that I was doing anything out of standards. All of a sudden they pulled me in for counseling and rescinded my remote standing saying I needed to be retrained. A list was provided of things I was "deficient". Most of the things were one offs - never repeated but still listed. I feel that was was BS but moving on the other things were training that was not clear. My trainer NEVER pointed out on a day to day basis what wasn't to her liking. That would have been the learning / retraining that would have worked well. She apparently just kept bitching about my work that had to be fixed. ANYHOW, my Work Improvement Plan had a 30 day limit at which I was supposed to be improved "or else". The sunset day came and went. I had a total of three meetings on the topic at which I was asked how did I feel it was going? No one ever stated that I needed to improve on x, y or z but the WIP was never officially closed. The stress and commute were still awful and I waited for the shoe to drop.

    Five months went by under this crap which included winter snow, ice commuting. For my last three weeks one of my next level up supervisors found a reason to take me to task once a week. Each time it was either a boo boo that was no big deal or very unrealistic expectation/behavior on her part. The third time it happend I went online and applied for a great job. Low and behold I got that job - it's a dream and I really enjoyed walking in giving notice, turning in equipment and leaving all on the same day. She asked me why I was leaving and I could quite truthfully state it wasn't a good fit for me. Little did she know I'd provided a two page letter and 60 minute interview with the COO (two levels above her) with facts and figures why I was leaving. I don't expect they ever did anything about her but she WAS the reason I and 50% of her department had left within the less than year that I was at the company.

    My point is - there are no guarantees about remote work. If they want to - they'll find a way to get out of it if they want to and the HM view point is one reason it happens. A remote worker MAY be able to be okay if the HM has little to no supervision of new remote worker.

21. Deb StricklandJuly 26,2023 at 4:22PM UTC

    The wording the HM used to 'finally' consented hybrid work clearly shows it's just a trick to ge a candidate on board. "finally decided that he could be flexible depending on performance and work ethic for the first couple of months until the new hire got acclimated."

    The hired person will be led to believe it's hybrid yet the HM has no intention of letting that be the case. He can easily find any reason (of any size) to require on-site 100% of the time. Saying "until the new hire got acclimated" says flexible work will quickly end. 

    Definitely show the HM the replies you get from candidates declining to interview because of this ambiguity and no commitment to flexible work schedule. He's clearly aperson no one would want to work for.

22. Donna PolsterJuly 27,2023 at 6:30PM UTC

    Maybe tell him he needs to increase pay or benefits?

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