I work at a church and am the only female employee.

106 Comments

1. Sandy McNamaraAugust 30,2023 at 2:43PM UTC

   You may want to recheck churches being exempt from discriminating based on sex. I believe that was changed in 2021.

2. AnonymousAugust 30,2023 at 3:10PM UTC

   You could reach out to the EEOC regarding the discrimination if you're in the US.

   It's definitely worth looking for another job. Consider what type of tasks you like as well as the work environment and benefits you need. Then look for jobs that meet those needs and tailor your resume to match the tasks listed on the job descriptions - so if your resume says 'experienced at scheduling meetings and responding to parishioner requests' you might change it to say, skilled at time management and customer service, etc.

   Best of luck! My heart goes out to you.

3. KatAugust 30,2023 at 3:39PM UTC

   Reach out to your network (family and friends) and tell them you're looking. If you're in any professional orgs not related to your church, see if they have any job boards or ways to connect you to new job prospects. Don't mention you're looking to anyone in the congregation as that would make things worse. If you don't have a LinkedIn profile, create one. If you have one, make sure it's updated. Look at the kind of jobs you want and upskill as needed. You're probably better qualified than you think after years of mistreatment, discrimination and low pay. Even if you have to take a survival job like retail, food service, or warehouse until you find something you like better, do it. The pay would be better, you could work full time and probably get decent benefits - none of which you're getting now.

   Document everything you can regarding pay issues, discrimination, sexism and mistreatment. Find an employment lawyer that offers a free consult to see if you have a case. If you can't afford an attorney, contact your local Legal Aid office. They should be able to refer you to an employment lawyer or someone that does pro bono work if you have an actionable case. Good luck with everything. I know this won't be easy, but it will get better.

4. AnonymousAugust 30,2023 at 4:26PM UTC

   If that is the attitude of the pastor, you need to get out of there. If you have been there 25 years, you should know if there are lawyers attending the church. You could ask them or go outside the church. Dont trust anyone in the church.

5. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:12AM UTC

   I'd go to an outside attorney. I wouldn't trust anyone within the church....you don't know whet might be said

6. Julie WozniakAugust 31,2023 at 12:39PM UTC

   Exactly - and please do not go to the Personnel Committee with ANYTHING!!!

7. AnonymousAugust 30,2023 at 4:36PM UTC

   I would summarize all your complaints with any evidence and submit them to the church leaders (not just one or two). Let them know you are planning on taking this to an attorney to explore recourse options.

   Let them know that you've been in touch with the media as well to find ways to open public discussion on the issues.

   As for a job search, begin by putting your resume into to top shape. Start asking around to see if there are folks in the congregation that might help you with your resume and networking.

8. Balanced372207August 31,2023 at 12:48PM UTC

   You NEVER, EVER, EVER tell your adversary that you are "planning to go to an attorney." Why on earth would you reveal your game plan?

9. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:03PM UTC

   Because in reality you've already gone and set your wheel in motion. It's a game.

10. AnonymousAugust 30,2023 at 4:52PM UTC

    You need to see an employment lawyer. I would NOT use one from the church. You don't know whose side they're on.

11. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistAugust 30,2023 at 5:16PM UTC

    FGBers - PLEASE STOP GIVING THIS ADVICE TO OTHERS!

    please be aware if you live in a state that requires consent before you record someone. If you live in a two-party consent state and record someone without their consent, there's a very real risk you could wind up in legal trouble.

    For example:

    "Virtually every state imposes some criminal penalty for violations of its secret recording law. For example, a person violating California's law faces a possible misdemeanor conviction, a one-year prison sentence, and a $2,500 fine."

12. Wendy SawyerAugust 30,2023 at 7:45PM UTC

    https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/one-party-consent-states/#:~:text=The%20one%20party%20consent%20states,Carolina%2C%20North%20Dakota%2C%20Ohio%2C

    "Several states have adopted one party consent laws. The one party consent states include Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

    A majority of the states included have adopted one party consent laws. Only a few states, such as California, Delaware, Florida, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington, have not adopted such laws, making it illegal to record a conversation without the consent of all parties involved in those states. It is important to note that the absence of one party consent laws in certain states does not necessarily mean that recording conversations is completely prohibited. Other laws and regulations may govern the recording of conversations in those states."

13. Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistAugust 31,2023 at 1:20AM UTC

    Yes - exactly. Which is why I started my comment with "please be aware if you live in a state that requires consent before you record someone."

14. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:50PM UTC

    I live in Pennsylvania, and I agree. That is the law here, too.

15. AnonymousAugust 30,2023 at 7:15PM UTC

    Did you go to your deacons, if you have these, or elders? If you've been there that long, you may some allies out there.

16. AnonymousAugust 30,2023 at 7:33PM UTC

    Depending on your church denomination, there should be a committee known as the "Pastoral Oversight Committee" or "Pastor/Parish Relations Committee" or something similar, which, in effect, is the pastor's boss. You can file a grievance there. The pastor CANNOT do whatever he wants because he is (in all mainline denominations) bound by a code of ethics. He is also under contract by the church, which will stipulate what he can and cannot do (unless it is otherwise specified by the denomination he is bound to). As a clergy member, I am appalled by any clergyperson making such a claim. They are accountable to their flock. The flock is not there to serve them. They also cannot play fast and loose with the church's money. The parishioners have given that money for the GOOD of the church in good faith.

    Now that I've finished my "rant," all I can tell you is what everyone else is. Work with someone to build a resume, start looking for another job, and then find a good attorney if you have the energy. I echo those who warn about using anyone connected with the church. You never know where their loyalties lie, and it could bite you.

17. Wendy SawyerAugust 30,2023 at 7:43PM UTC

    This varies by state, and is in no way the case in mine:

    "Texas is considered a "one-party consent" state. This means that unless at least one of the parties to a conversation consents, both Texas and federal wiretapping laws make it a crime to record an audio conversation, either in person or over the phone, if the parties have a "reasonable expectation of privacy."

    Investigate the legality in your state, as this may be a wonderful way to address the unethical religious figure who believes he and his position are immune from accountability.

18. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:20PM UTC

    There are many other places you can work. Instead of wasting money and time seeking employment counsel…hire a resume writer or career coach to help you! Get out of there! Look for non profit work that is aligned with ministry orgs, I’m sure they would scoop you up with that experience. Churches make very poor employers.

19. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:22PM UTC

    There’s a lot to unpack here, but the best solution is to consult an employment/labor attorney.

20. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:23PM UTC

    They’re making you leave. Either stick it out or go. It will probably get worse.

21. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

    Find another opportunity. A lot has changed in the 25 years since you started this role and many resources are available to help set you up for a job search. Resume tools abound, LinkedIn is powerful and you have a network that is willing to help you even if you do not know it. Some of those former pastors would probably be advocates - just use discretion on what you say and how you say it and who you say it to.

    After securing another role you could think about addressing your concerns. If you know any influential members of the congregation that are fair and good intentioned then I would discreetly expose the pastor.

    One of the best ways to move beyond a bad experience is to get into a good experience. Often then you find that revisiting the previous poor treatment is not worth it. You’ll know what you have to do though - focus on you for now and find that new job.

22. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:36PM UTC

    Be careful - I tried that, and it backfired spectacularly. It could work, but churches are as cut-throat and ruthless as anywhere else these days!

23. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:46PM UTC

    Actually, churches are more ruthless and cutthroat......hiding behind the "cloak of supposed holiness."

24. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:27PM UTC

    I agree with everyone who is telling you to get out. You have a ton of experience and like you said no pastor has ever treated you this way before. You are asking us but you already know things aren’t right. Listen to your “internal” clock. Religious places of work (in my opinion) get away with soo much discrimination. Please get on LinkedIn, start following ppl like Adam Karpiak, beef up your resume (with or without) help and get out of there. Good luck!

25. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:31PM UTC

    You need to value yourself more. Ask people how they are finding jobs, look on Craig’s list, Indeed, Monster. Figure it out. I understand you’ve had the same job for a long time, but that is no excuse to remain inert and not advocate for yourself. Stop being a victim. And yes, that all sounds harsh, but true nevertheless.

26. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:31PM UTC

    Let me qualify by stating: I worked for a church in an administrative position, and got out very quickly. Sadly, the Senior Pastor is correct - he can do whatever he wants, and the Personnel Committee / Elders will almost ALWAYS side with a member of the Pastoral Staff before they will side with you. It does sound as though you are the "Church / Pastor's Secretary" and NOT a member of the Pastoral Staff, and there is a huge difference in both the committee's eyes and the eyes of the congregation. I am NOT saying the staff's behavior is "legal" or indeed ethical - it is not, and you can go to an attorney who will likely not want to pursue such a case (this happened to a close friend, a financial secretary for her church for 36 years, fired for clear age discrimination.) With less than 5 employees, the non-profit church is protected under the law.

    I am so sorry this is happening to you, it happened to myself and my friend as well, in much the exact same situation, in almost the way you have described.

    People do tend to think, "What a blessing to get to work every day for such wonderful Godly people." How incredibly WRONG they can be. The real person hardly ever translates to the person behind the pulpit on Sunday mornings.

27. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:31PM UTC

    It’s scary to think about job hunting when you’ve been at a job that long. You have a choice. You can either accept this behavior, look to change it, or move on. They are telling you something about which is the right choice by showing how much they don’t care about you and take your loyalty for granted. I don’t know about the legalities of what they are doing and suggest you speak to an attorney who specializes in employment law in your state. A one hour consultation should be illuminating.

    Start looking for a job by thinking about your accomplishments. Make a list, using verbs. That’s the basis of your resume.

    Ive been with my company for 30 years. In hindsight I should have left long ago. I sacrificed career growth and compensation (which will impact my social security). Now, at the age of 60, it’s hard to find something else.

28. Diane McDevittAugust 31,2023 at 12:34PM UTC

    There is no magic bullet for this. Best advice - be brave enough to leave the table where respect is no longer being served.

29. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:38PM UTC

    the policy changes, while they seem personal, will impact all employees there. I am sorry about that. However, beyond that...you are working somewhere without democracy or a voice. You cannot change that. You'll need to leave. it will take too much time/energy to resist, unless you can get church board members "on board".

30. Melissa NobileAugust 31,2023 at 12:42PM UTC

    Start looking for a job. There may be another church that needs an admin. Church admins are hard to find. Does your church have a Staff/Parish Relations Committee? You need to schedule a private meeting with the chair. I am sure you know almost everyone. Chat with the women who do all the work. I am sure you will find support there. They don’t take kindly to men who mess with the admin’s benefits.

31. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:42PM UTC

    Some Christian this pastor is.....please go online and google "how to job search", because you need to find another job. I am wondering.....do you work for a Baptist congregation? I find the Baptists to be both racist and sexist, and wonder why any black people belong to the Baptist church.

32. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:43PM UTC

    Start looking for another job immediately! Unfortunately, churches can be one of the hardest places to work; I've worked in two--one not great, one good. Your loyalty is commendable, but it's time to leave!

33. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:46PM UTC

    Don't let this turn into recentment. Communicate your frustrations. The Bible lays out how we can deal with grievances towards others. If that doesn't work, gracefully but sternly leave. My biggest thing is don't let this turn into church hurt or recentment towards God and the church. Humans are sinners plain and simple, which doesn't justify anyones behaviour...however it allows us to have grace AND when necessary step back from disrespect. Being Christian doesn't mean you have to tolerate bad behaviour or disrespect. Be wise as a serpent and gentle as a dove. Praying for you!

34. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:48PM UTC

    This is absolutely outrageous treatment! By the way, you can sue anyone so if it were me, I would leave and file a civil suit. Churches need to see that they cannot treat women this way and get away with it. Document everything and save every text and email. Find a new job before you quit.

35. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:48PM UTC

    It’s time to go.

    Easy for me to say, of course, but it will open your eyes to get out of there.

    Make lists of times when you felt that you were contributing, competent, valued, respected and felt satisfaction in your work. Then begin translating that to a resume.

36. Balanced372207August 31,2023 at 12:50PM UTC

    NO, NO, NO, NO.....You can't trust anyone in the congregation. "Churchies" (people that are loyal to the pastor, no matter what), are brainwashed, and will NOT be helpful.

37. Jennifer Chickenlittle RubberchickenAugust 31,2023 at 12:57PM UTC

    Uh, leave the Church of Sharia Law and apply for anything and everything normal. Their own actions will catch up with them. In the interest of YOU, I would not badmouth or try to come back at them really, you need good energy and you have a lot to offer. I would apply at other churches that have a lot of female employees. Obviously there are deeply ingrained problems that cannot be fixed in this situation.

38. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 12:59PM UTC

    Talk to an employment agency - find someone to help you write a resume and get out ASAP.

39. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:00PM UTC

    Document everything. Say nothing at work. Speak to your state’s attorney general and find out about employment laws and FMLA laws in your state. Talk to the higher ups such as the archdiocese if there is one. Do all this while searching for another job in the event you are fired. Personally I would record the meetings if it’s legal in your state to document the sexism. You may even consider speaking to an employee law attorney once you have gathered enough evidence. You are working in a hostile working environment. I am so sorry you are going through this.

40. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:52PM UTC

    In many states, churches and religious organizations are exempt from FMLA, so talking to the attorney general is a good idea.

41. Valerie RiegerAugust 31,2023 at 1:02PM UTC

    There are exemptions in hiring for religious organizations, such as only hiring men as pastors but I don't believe there are exemptions for the kind of treatment that you describe. Is there a "parent" organization that you can reach out to that might be able to help you (or speak to the pastor).

    There are resources available to help you in your job search. LinkedIn and Google are good resources.

42. Maggie StoneAugust 31,2023 at 1:05PM UTC

    Since we don’t have any info about your region or denomination, it is hard to target advice; however, it does seem like this is coming from the top at your church. That will make implementing any change a challenge. So it will be up to you if you want to be a change maker, or move on.

43. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:07PM UTC

    Leave and let them feel your absence from the valuable work you contribute.

    I have been a part of a couple of pastor transitions and they are always difficult, because they each have their own way of doing things. Perhaps you can still be involved in the church in a different capacity or ministry that values you. Or it’s also ok to take a break and let others serve. Good luck!

44. Rosanna TuftsAugust 31,2023 at 1:08PM UTC

    YOU DESERVE TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT. I too am a former church secretary, I have been where you are. Don't wait until you are suicidal to convince them they're being TOO HARD ON YOU. Seriously: Look for a lawyer who specializes in Labor Law, many lawyers will give you one hour of free consultation, and ask him/her what words you can say that will stop a loaded-for-bear bastard cold. Call their bluff: say "you need me more than I need you. This place would utterly fall to pieces without me, and you know it." I tell my story in the video documentary, "Was It Autism All Along?" episodes 4 and 6. Look for it on YouTube.

45. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:22PM UTC

    No disrespect intended, but, why do you continue to work there?

46. Melissa HacheyAugust 31,2023 at 1:29PM UTC

    shocking that a church would do that!!!

47. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:34PM UTC

    Sadly, nothing shocks me anymore

48. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:40PM UTC

    I've heard ridiculous stories from friends who've worked at churches - so totally not a surprise. They can be the most toxic work environments, and they're pretty much accountable to no one.

49. M BaazaAugust 31,2023 at 1:38PM UTC

    Why are you still there?
    Unfortunately, many religious organizations are HIGHLY misogynistic. I would look for a way out while still sane. There are other ways to serve God, it's not worth your health and mental health to stay I'm such a toxic space. It's not going to get better

50. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:40PM UTC

    Get on LinkedIn if you're not already and start connecting with people in the industry you want to be in. There is plenty of solid, free advice from people on LI and you can get a great resume together yourself. Start sending out resumes/job applications as soon as you can.

51. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 1:50PM UTC

    Leave! If a church is willing to treat someone like this, it’s disgraceful and won’t get any better. Get your resume out and find a better job. If you can afford it, leave sooner. Do not let anyone, but especially a church, treat you like you are less than or deserve less.

52. QAugust 31,2023 at 1:59PM UTC

    You need to get out of this position as soon as possible. It's shameful, because it's a terrible testimony they are giving for God. But you are being used. It seems very clear cut, and a pastor who does not submit to checks and balances and who does not take advice from an oversight team is a pastor you do NOT want to be sitting under.

    Make a list of all the skills you have and come up with how they are transferable and get a recruiter. Start looking seriously. And if you are needing flexibility around kids or aging parents, consider working for a school district or doctor's office. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. Nothing makes me angrier than when someone says they represent God and then turns and acts in a greedy and ungodly manner!

53. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 2:14PM UTC

    Sadly, I’m not surprised. I worked for a church/school where the only person earning a decent salary was the pastor (the connected school principle, who was female, earned far less than the pastor and did not get a free house). Overall, the pastor probably earned 3 times what the principle earned and did far less work. It’s ‘normal’ in many religious communities (the school/church where I worked was conservative Lutheran - guess what, women can’t be pastors, so they can’t EVER earn the big salaries).

    I would recommend starting out by contacting the EEOC (https://www.EEOC.org) and filing a formal complaint. I could be wrong (the EEOC would know), but I think the rules on only allowing males in certain positions does not exempt them from following the law once they’ve actually hired a female. But honestly, the church probably figures you’ll never complain/leave because you’re so religious and dedicated, and they probably also assume you’d never report them (that’s how it was where I worked).

    As others below have said, I would suggest searching aggressively for a different position. You can’t change misogyny. That said, I’d personally want to make sure they aren’t in a position to abuse another woman in that position, so I’d try to build a case of constructive dismissal based on gender/caring needs. But if you haven’t got the energy, just find something else!

54. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 2:19PM UTC

    This is textbook abuse of power and misogyny. GET OUT! It doesn’t matter how long you’ve been there. You can get free resume templates online to start. Make a list of your jobs responsibilities and start there. Google resume examples for inspiration. Look on Linked In and Indeed for jobs.

    Reading your post makes me ill to read it. It’s total abuse. Run!

55. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 2:31PM UTC

    Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 provides an exemption for religious organizations to discriminate based on "religion." So for example a Catholic Church can refuse to hire atheists and only hire nuns or other Catholics. What is crucial is that the religious organization exclusion only applies to religiously motivated discrimination. Religious organizations cannot discriminate based on protected classifications such as race, gender, or national origin. File a complaint with the EEOC and hire an employment attorney.

56. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 2:32PM UTC

    That's a terrible situation, and it is certainly valid to feel the way you do and to have noticed all the discrepancies between your role and all of theirs. It is immaterial that it is a church (or any religion-connected organisation), it is clearly a corrupt and self-serving organisation. You didn't say exactly what your role is. But they clearly get their jollies from treating you as they do. Best thing to do is leave there sooner rather than later.

    Bottom line, please find yourself another position ASAP, any position, in a non-religion related company or organisation. Please don't let worry about an employer's reference hold you back. Go sell yourself, your skills and your work ethic.

    I agree with another's comment, file a formal complaint at your EEOC office.

57. Tricia BurroughsAugust 31,2023 at 3:38PM UTC

    Leave or sue. You can usually talk for a short time to an employment lawyer for free to see if you have a case, otherwise I am sure there are many churches either within the community or nearby communities who would be thrilled to have someone with your experience and would treat you as such. If you are paid 1/2 the men this issue has persisted way before the new pastor and will not change.

58. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 4:17PM UTC

    Bring the EEOC into this and don't sit quietly by. Yes you need to work but years of abuse by the church and or any employer doesn't help your health and mental well being. Move on as fast as you can and even if it means temporary work do it instead.

59. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 5:01PM UTC

    What type of church do you belong to?! This is horrible to hear. Out of curiosity, how do you know what the male counterparts make, if/when/how much they get raises and/or bonuses?....

60. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 10:38PM UTC

    My guess is involvement with Payroll/accting because it seems we see just about everything in that regard.

61. SaraSeptember 1,2023 at 12:40PM UTC

    Finances of any non-profit organization must be available to the public.

62. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 5:27PM UTC

    Actually churches do need to follow the laws. There are some clergy exemptions but that mostly applies to discrimination of sexual orientation and things like that ~ not against being a woman. If part-time pastors get extra over a full time employee that could be a sticking point as well. I agree that the EEOC needs to be contacted. I personally would be quoting scripture, but if that is not you then just bide your time til you can leave. (I would also recommend changing churches when you leave employment)

    As where to look, try non-profits or basic clerical work. Do you have friends outside the church, and can you ask around discreetly?

63. Leader135412August 31,2023 at 5:28PM UTC

    So sad the fact it's a church doing this to you. Get some help making your resume and get out of there as soon as possible. Call your state labor board and make a complaint.

    Look for a new job and don't hesitate to take off for interviews. Don't say anything until you secure a new job. And if the new job starts right away, don't worry about giving notice. Leave with a smile on your face. And if that church is your place of worship, find a new one.

64. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 5:36PM UTC

    Time to learn how to job hunt. This is an unacceptable work environment. You absolutely can use your sick leave to care for parents, it's the law. Or, is there anyone the pastor reports to? They need to be made aware of this kind of behavior. Maybe once you have another job lined up....

65. AnonymousAugust 31,2023 at 7:47PM UTC

    The Pastor has Superiors. It is their responsibility to ensure he is is held to all legal and ethical standards.

    You need to ensure you have written documentation:

    I would write the Pastor a letter. Thanking him for taking the time to listen to your concerns, how you 'want to ensure a clear understanding of....' Identify the concerns you brought to his attention (including dates), your efforts to have each addressed, and his responses/actions (inactions) to each.

    If list gets too long, it may be giving them ammo to dismiss you as a 'complainer'. You may need to pick and choose the most substantial few. Additional items include in a journal & could be brought out in another letter if need be.

    Be factual. Do not write any self-incriminating statements. You are laying the groundwork for positive change, not information for them to somehow use against you. Wait to see if he responds. If nothing for 2 wks, forward original letter to his Superior, with a letter to them requesting clarification of stance, and work from there. If he does respond, will depend on the response. May need to then forward copy of your letter and his response letter to his Superior....;

    if he responds in person, write a letter and document what is stated, etc. 'to ensure a mutual understanding' once again. Then send both to his Superiors. Which of the above 3 depends on what does/doesn't happen in response to your letter to him and your continued efforts to have your concerns addressed.

    You may want to include your commitment to the church 'having worked for over 25 years at ____________ as '_____'.

    There should be factual background on you by you so his Superiors have it at hand. 25 yrs speaks volumes and you aren't a 'newbie' with no experience or working knowledge. Any part regarding #of previous Pastors seems risky, unless they were all well received, had long runs, well liked by higher ups, etc.

    Write it, take a break and review after couple days. You'll have a clearer view of how it is coming across. Best of luck. If need be, seek out 'effective letter writing' or 'professional letters' to gain insight on wording, etc

66. Cynthia Armistead NewmanSeptember 1,2023 at 1:30PM UTC

    Whether the pastor has "superiors" with any power depends on the denomination. Unfortunately, that isn't true at all of most Southern Baptist churches and many others.

67. Kari HadleyAugust 31,2023 at 10:17PM UTC

    Nice church -- not! This is exactly why I don't go to church anymore!

68. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 12:13PM UTC

    thats not a reason to not go to church. Its not the church its the humans running the church.

69. Kimberly AnneSeptember 1,2023 at 12:29PM UTC

    Actually it’s the humans who make up the church and most of them are truly awful people.

70. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 12:52AM UTC

    Get out now before these idiots take more of your psychological and physical energy. Hire a professional resume writer. Orgs are looking for committed people like you. You just haven't found each other yet.

71. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 12:28PM UTC

    This sounds questionable to me. Not that these things don’t happen but it sounds off.

72. Laura MamaevSeptember 1,2023 at 12:29PM UTC

    You need to find somewhere else that is supportive of you and your situation (kids and aging parents). Many places and hiring managers are more human and understanding of life happening. What are your skills? What position do you have in the church? You are so much more valuable than this. It's sad that this kind of behaviour is in a church of all places, but ignorance and inequality is everywhere. Please find another place. This site is wonderful at making connections!!! Use it and it members as resources to find you a new job!

73. Rachel N.September 1,2023 at 12:45PM UTC

    I'm assuming if you have worked for a church for 25 years that you're probably a member of the church as well as an employee. If the pastor is as you describe, you need to find a new church and a new job. Maybe a new church is the new job. Maybe you're being called to a new assignment. It's a big transition after 25 years, but I'm sure the skillset you have is transferrable like excellent soft skills at dealing with sensitive emotional situations. You probably have a wealth of knowledge about planning and organizing if you've been at the same church that long. Don't undervalue yourself because your pastor does. You are fearfully and wonderfully made with gifts of the Spirit that no mortal man can take away.

74. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 1:15PM UTC

    So the victim has to leave? No way!

75. Rachel N.September 1,2023 at 1:35PM UTC

    If you're a member of a church and it has been infiltrated by evil then you leave. You don't follow the devil because he puts on a white collar and quotes Scripture. If the whole congregation would do what's right they'd run him out on a rail. They don't seem inclined to do that. Would you ask a victim of domestic abuse to stay because the money was good?

76. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 12:49PM UTC

    You are not powerless, despite what the years of psychological abuse have led you to believe. These people sound ignorant, and just because they believe they are above the law it doesn't mean they actually are. Start with contacting an employment lawyer and learn your rights as an employee and human being. Don't worry about the outcome, instead focus on empowerment and justice. Let God handle the rest.

77. Cynthia Armistead NewmanSeptember 1,2023 at 1:29PM UTC

    There isn't such a line. Churches are exempt from pretty much all employment laws, from non-discrimination stuff to COBRA requirements - or, at least, that was the case when I worked for one in the late 80s. Get out of there! You will never be treated well because patriarchy is baked in to Christianity.

78. Balanced372207September 2,2023 at 6:11PM UTC

    "Patriarchy is baked into Christianity." True. So is racism.

79. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 1:34PM UTC

    I would find another job. Don't waste your time and energy ?.

80. Mimi JerkanSeptember 1,2023 at 1:48PM UTC

    Please start filling out applications online and if you don’t know how, go to your unemployment office and ask for help.
    Get out.

81. Sarah StadtherrSeptember 1,2023 at 2:04PM UTC

    Is this an independent church or is there an association of churches with a staff at another level up from the local church? If yes, then move up the line to ask these same questions. if no, move on. Church admins with 25 years of experience are a valued commodity. They are few and far between and can find new positions fairly easily if they might be willing to switch to another church. Also, are you a member of this church? That's not always a good plan so consider applying to a church were you aren't a member and keep your membership at this church (IF YOU WANT) after you've landed another position.

82. Lisa AdamsSeptember 1,2023 at 2:04PM UTC

    I understand that finding a new job can be scary, so hire a career counselor to help you navigate during this trying time. Good things are in store for you if you take the first step.

83. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 2:11PM UTC

    Find another job! They would be lucky to have you! It will take some work but you’ll be happier. I had no idea that charitable organizations were exempt from discrimination. That’s absolutely absurd in light of all the historical information about misbehavior. Good luck!

84. Evelyn LivantSeptember 1,2023 at 2:40PM UTC

    Your local state career center has all the free assistance you should need on job hunting assistance and training.

85. Dawn M Rollins-MurrellSeptember 1,2023 at 3:31PM UTC

    I am so angry and frustrated for you. You have put up with this mistreatment for so long its made you feel like you can not find something better and that is not true. The way they are treating you is wrong and unethical. The people at that church don't deserve you or your loyalty any longer. I am an employment specialist and I would love to work with you because the 25 years of experience you have is like gold to employers. It may be scary, but you wouldn't have to go to another church if you don't want to. You could take your pick of places that would be happy and excited to have you. One of my favorite bible verses is: Matthew 6:10-11 “And He said to them, "Any place that does not receive you or listen to you, leave that house or city and as you go out from there, shake the dust off the soles of your feet for they will understand how important having a testimony against them.” Good luck and God bless you.

86. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 4:48PM UTC

    You should report them to the EEOC immediately. Not only should they be investigated, but the findings should be made public to the members, community and public.

87. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 5:23PM UTC

    Exactly why I don’t belong to a church

88. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 5:48PM UTC

    Please leave that church ASAP because there is no way a church lead by such a toxic person is healthy. And his behavior does not reflect the heart of God - to care for the needy and be selfless.

89. Belinda AllanSeptember 1,2023 at 6:00PM UTC

    O my, my heart goes out to you. I have worked for 2 churches (over 10 years altogether) and it truly tested my faith. I was the only female with 3 male pastors and I had teenagers at the time that thought less about s3x then those pastors. It is a sickness that churches need to face, but the congregation puts the pastor on such a high pedestal, and you are told extra work and working on Sundays (after a full week in the office) is part of your MINISTRY. So incredibly frustrating. And with HR/Personnel committees that have the people in them changing every year and filled with people that are retired and have no idea what HR actually does - it is a recipe for employee disaster.

    Can you check if your denomination has a Admin Association? Mine did - a group of the church admins that supported each other and they even created a certificate of training with training sessions covering how to keep your cool while answering phones to these legal equity kind of questions. It opened my eyes. Pastors are trained to lead a congregation, not an office. They have no idea what the true laws are about sick leave policies and how to actually manage the people that work there. Unfortunately, there are so many pastors that think they do know it all and it sours the view outside people have about the Church as a whole.

    I'll be honest, I have not been able to attend church since I left 13 years ago. Yes, It was that bad. I have been able to find fulfilling work and not a day goes by that I am not thankful for having the courage to leave the church admin behind. Please research other careers - you have the skills, I know you do from one church admin to another (and yes, they still called me a secretary when I was there - they still call the current one a secretary. I can't roll my eyes back far enough to show how I feel about that.) Get out of that position before it is detrimental to your own spirit and mental health. They have no idea what they are doing and will continue to treat you like garbage. It is human nature - and pedestal or not, those pastors and the congregation are humans. Get out of that situation - you are worth more and you deserve better. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

90. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 6:33PM UTC

    You need to leave. Find another position. If your parents are elderly, I am assuming that your children might be capable of helping out —. Chores or starting dinner. Find a reputable organization. That pastor has a lack of clarity about being responsible for his flock.

91. Balanced372207September 2,2023 at 6:09PM UTC

    Good advice except the part where you are making an assumption about "children being capable of helping out." I learned, through doing 25 years of constituent service work, to "assume" nothing, and ask everything."

92. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 6:41PM UTC

    There is no line they are not held responsible for anything and pretty much do what they want .

    I had a friend whose mother worked for a church for 25 years her husband left her for a younger women , she way a fired for being divorced

    why would you want to stay !? They are telling you what they think of you get a better job and don’t look back , you are worth so much more

93. AnonymousSeptember 2,2023 at 11:10AM UTC

    I worked at an organization- not a church - great place.
    My NEW boss started and at that time I was divorcing my then husband due to abuse.

    He noticed my wedding band went away and I was ultimately "no longer needed". I had to train his wife to do my bookkeeper job!! I was 35 at the time and unable to prove anything so I accepted the situation as it was. (Then living on my own with a 2, and 5 year old).

    He felt that I should have stuck with my marriage as "God Expected" and his wife felt "abuse is warranted to HELP me become a better woman"

    I'd find another church.

    I learned from that experience: tell no one about your personal life regardless how friendly they appear

94. AnonymousSeptember 1,2023 at 11:43PM UTC

    Bring a law suit against them for pay discrimination, sexual harassment, general harassment, and whatever other sins they committed against you. Make them pay and make it hurt. This is so typical of organizations like this. This is one of the last well protected boys club, another big one is the military. Stay strong and like other people recommended, leave and go on to a better job.

95. Patricia ManroeSeptember 2,2023 at 8:20AM UTC

    I would find another church to go to and work for. That is dead wrong.

96. Bradford McCormickSeptember 2,2023 at 12:24PM UTC

    Clearly these men are practicing Christians: hypocrites. "I'm the pastor, I can do whatever I want!" Is that a quote or just your expression of frustration? If it's a quote and the religion he pushes is true, it will not go well for him when his dossier is reviewed at The Last Judgment, will it?

    You sound like you do not see that you have a meaningful choice, i.e., a way UP and out (one can always go down and out), and no "savvy" to market yourself elsewhere. Can you do anything about that?

    "As you do it unto the least of these, my brethren, you do it unto me." (Matthew 25:40)

97. AnonymousSeptember 2,2023 at 1:01PM UTC

    Been there, done that. Bottom line: Get another job. You will feel so much better about your life once you leave the toxic environment. If you want to remain in church work, consider working for a denomination; they have checks and balances. If you have problems, you can go above the pastor and appeal to the superintendent. Not all churches treat their employees this way.

98. Lisa MarieSeptember 2,2023 at 3:44PM UTC

    Sorry this is happening. Report this pastor to the diocese, and find another job.

    How do you find another job? Use Google to research how job seekers go about finding their next best opportunities.

    Good luck.

99. Kristyn BarrettSeptember 3,2023 at 4:25PM UTC

    Like others have said, file a lawsuit. Churches CANNOT discriminate based on race, color, sex, age, disability, national origin but they CAN based on religion. However, they are not able to engage in racially discriminatory hiring claiming their “religion” doesn’t associate with that sex/race/disability/etc. Sadly, it sounds like they are treating you like the Bible says to treat women.

    This church, has violated every employment law on the record so depending on the area you live, you should be able to find a lawyer who will take this case.

    Good luck!

100. AnonymousSeptember 3,2023 at 10:36PM UTC

     You know the answer. Get out and find a job elsewhere. Find something under Personal Assistant. Get personal references so you don't need to use the church ones. Almost no one has "sick days" anymore. Most current companies use personal time. Those meeting minutes don't reflect the off hand comments, but should if you are taking them. They should be recorded but probably aren't. Also noted is that you've been there 25 years...those others making the "off hand" jokes have been there a while too. What have you put up with them for so long? Have you been putting off looking just because you don't want to? It is time to get out and make sure you tell folks what was happening AFTER you get another job.

101. AnonymousSeptember 4,2023 at 12:53AM UTC

     This is religion performing at its worst! Get out, and file a discrimination lawsuit. They have no clue as to what you do or what you take care of - let them learn. Keep in mind, and just in case it is mentioned - you are not serving God by being treated this way.

     Sit down with an employment specialist and learn how your skills are transferable to another line of employment - I think you will be surprised.

     If the church has a board, you can take the issues there as well. If it doesn’t have a board it’s really time to file and get out - that is not operating according to non-profit law.

     Wishing you and for the sake of all women being treated this way within the halls of religion, great success on finding your next position.

102. Liz MilneSeptember 4,2023 at 1:44AM UTC

     "I'm the pastor, I can do whatever I want!" - just like Jesus said... #eyeroll
     

103. Wanda ShawSeptember 5,2023 at 3:37AM UTC

     I don’t know who or what this church is lifting up but it’s certainly NOT the Lord. It breaks my heart to hear of your plight. Little wonder that folks distrust the church these days. It’s because of crazy shenanigans like this that’s driving them away. But I digress.

     This is the most toxic and pitiful excuse for a church work environment that I’ve ever heard of in my life. I don’t know what faith sect it is, but unless this is some newly established church, there has to be a governing body that oversees it that you could take your complaints to. I.e: the Catholic Church is under the archdiocese, etc. Even in most stand alone congregations, the pastor answers to a group of elders or leaders who govern his actions and can and will take this pastor to task for his actions, that is, unless they are complicit in condoning the pastors behavior. In that case, it’s time to move on. And contrary to what you may believe about skillsets, you are marketable. You wouldn’t have lasted 25 years unless you brought something to the table. No need to go the job search alone, reach out to friends, and family to help you. I’m pretty sure that there are folks that know of job openings that will be perfect for you, even in this season of your life. Oh, and by the way, get up the nerve to start “telling” a few folks in the congregation about what their shepherd has been up to. I believe that if the word gets out you’re going to find a listening ear or two.. Best wishes to you.

104. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 7:24AM UTC

     Hello Anonymous user. to one anonymous from another ONE! I understand your concerns, and if you believe the situation you described is false or exaggerated, it's essential to rely on facts and not spread misinformation. However, if you are genuinely facing workplace issues, it's crucial to address them appropriately.

     Remember that it's important to address workplace issues through proper channels and in a truthful manner, focusing on RESOLVING THE PROBLEMS rather than using any negative narratives about Christianity or any other religion

     If you are experiencing any form of discrimination, harassment, or unfair treatment at your workplace, regardless of whether it's a church or any other organization, it's essential to seek a solution. . Open and honest communication can often lead to better outcomes for all parties involved.

     If you decide to explore other job opportunities, you can start by updating your resume, networking within your industry, and researching job listings online. It may be challenging after 25 years with the same organization, but it's never too late to seek a better work environment and a more positive experience elsewhere.

105. Jennifer FranklinSeptember 5,2023 at 12:52PM UTC

     As everyone here has said it's time to go. Update your resume, start looking. Idealist, Work for Good are job search sites specifically for non profit jobs. I would also consider a recruiter in that field, they get paid by the company hiring so no cost to you, and will evaluate your resume, focusing on your skillset and help you find a good fit. As soon as I got a job I would write everyone, the church board, the governing body, the congregation a letter of resignation outlining SPECIFICS. I would highly recommend finding a good employment attorney but only AFTER you secure a new position. Lastly consider doing what you love, at this stage in life you have done your duty and deserve to end your career joyfully.

106. AnonymousSeptember 5,2023 at 10:59PM UTC

     I also worked at a church and got paid less than half! I only found out when they accidentally emailed me the men's salary. The men worked 30 hours I worked 80-100 hours a week.

     The men's work looked like Bourbon Happy hours twice a week to recruit more male membership- which meant they were hungover and came in aroudn 12 noon and left at 4 the next day (twice a week) and then they had male-bonding 8 hour bike rides on Fridays.

     Polish your resume and leave. It will be the best thing you ever did.

     Then men where I was, had 6 figure salaries, received commision on the major gifts they got for the church + benefits. Meanwhile I worked on every fundraising campaign, from 4a.m. -11p.m office hours to get the work done and lived with 4 roommates because my salary barely covered cost of living expenses.