HR Manager putting a copy of PIP under my door and open

Anonymous

October 17,2023 at 6:26PM UTC

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HR Manager putting a copy of PIP under my door and open

Not only were all the elements of the PIP inaccurate, but after the HR Manager signed it, she slipped it under my door and unsealed.

I am so disgusted, I am not clear what to do. I told my COO about it (my manager) and he told me this was between me and the HR Manager. He then said that he would speak with her.

I am looking for a new job and want to quit right this second, but cannot afford to.

Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks.

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AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 7:05PM UTC
That was very shady of the HR manager.
But if you want to respond in any way, do so as part of your rebuttal to the PIP correcting the inaccuracies.
Try and stay calm and meet your PIP obligations so you remain employed until you can get a new job.
AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 9:55PM UTC
Rebut the PIP. Be very careful to keep it professional. Write it up, but sit on it for a day before you turn it in. That gives you time to ensure the language is accurate and not full of emotion or judging. Stick to the facts only. Don't make any judgments when you mention how the PIP was delivered. Good luck. I agree with the other poster that it was very shady. It should have been hand-delivered and discussed, not slid under the door.
AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 10:32PM UTC
OP here. Can I be fired for rebutting a PIP? Also, I wrote that I have read the document but did not agree with the content above my signature on the PIP. Do I need to do a rebuttal also?
Also, just so you know, I plan on not being with this company and will probably leave before the end of the year. Do you think I should still do the rebuttal? Is it worth it? This environment is way too toxic for me to stay. Plus both the HR Manager and COO are rogue and shady characters. It wasn't like this before, and both are relatively new (less than 2 years).
AnonymousOctober 17,2023 at 10:50PM UTC
You have already stated that you disagree with the contents of the PIP, so a rebuttal as to why is the next step. If you have any evidence as to why a particular point is incorrect (email, performance evaluations, timecards, etc., depending on the nature of the stated performance issues), include them. If you are close to leaving, this may not be necessary, but if you don't have a new job lined up, you may end up working there for at least the length of the PIP, so documenting your side is essential if you need to keep working past the end of the plan limits.
Rebutting a PIP is not an automatic termination. Just be sure to keep it professional and factual. It provides you with necessary documentation if they terminate you, and you need to ensure you receive your unemployment or have to file a wrongful termination lawsuit.
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 12:43AM UTC
This is about the third post I've read about HR/HR managers just being as disgusting as an employee you report to the said HR.
What happened to HR or any work etiquette? WTH?
asmith13October 18,2023 at 1:43PM UTC
This is not best practice HR and HR should not be the one to deliver the PIP in my opinion.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 2:42PM UTC
As someone in HR, this entire situation is concerning to me. First, HR typically does not initiate a PIP. HR can make recommendations to put someone on a PIP, but the initiation is usually by the manager. I feel like in this case, the COO is hiding behind HR. Second, there should be a PIP meeting. The COO as the manager should he delivering the contents of the PIP and explaining the issues with HR there as a witness. At the end of the meeting, the PIP should be signed by all parties. The employee can receive a copy, but it should never be slid under a door, it should only be given to an employee directly.
I see a LOT of red flags with the COO and HR at this company. But I do want to say that not all HR representatives operate like this. There are many of us who are ethical and fair and follow appropriate procedure. Sadly, that doesn’t appear to be the case in this situation.
Joan Williams, Senior Talent Acquisition SpecialistOctober 18,2023 at 1:31AM UTC
What, specifically, is between you and the HR manager? The way that the PIP was delivered or the actual PIP?
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 1:58AM UTC
OP here - both. The PIP had a lot of inaccuracies which I stated and let my boss and HR know that I was not in agreement with its content.
I was even MORE disgusted with the way it was delivered. I believe it was an egregious act especially from an HR person who should be an advocate of confidentiality. Anyone could have walked into my office and opened the envelope and read the document. Plus she slid it under the door. She could have waited until I was in the office and given it to me. I found it EXTREMELY disrespectful. Like I said the HR Manager is shady, unethical, a liar and rogue. I can’t wait to leave this company. I have been there for 12 years and the new leadership is awful and they don’t know how to treat employees. I am a manager of a dept. They just let a senior manager go today. Even if I don’t find a job before mid December, I will quit. I am thinking about opening up my own business. It may be a little risky but anything to get out of there. I woke up the other night gasping for air (shortness of breath) because of this job!
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 2:25PM UTC
It seems like you are directing your anger toward HR when you're concerns should really be expressed with your direct manager. As others have noted, HR did not instigate this pip. They may have delivered it, but it was instigated and quite frankly driven by your manager. That's where there seems to be a real breakdown in communication. Yes, the delivery was very poor and insensitive. But that's not the root cause of what is happening here. Good luck.
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 12:59PM UTC
VERY unclear, did you know first about the PIP or was this how you found out at all. Also, a PIP, stating where you have opportunities, not clear how that can be inaccurate, or are you just saying that it's inaccurate as you don't feel the areas they need to see improvement you feel you are doing great? Regardless if you knew about the PIP or not, the delivery or copy of it, is very poorly and unprofessionally executed. Also, do you work in HR, if not that PIP was created NOT be them, maybe in collaboration with them, and if not in HR, why didn't your manager deliver it. I see your emotional post, and it stinks (the situation not your post, although its clarity is hard), so I would take a deep breath and pause. Do you report to the COO? If not, agree with that response.
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 1:02PM UTC
i really don't understand how your Manager can say a PIP is between you and HR. Your manager had to be the one to get the ball rolling on documenting information and then going to HR to get the PIP in place. I would start with them about the contents of the PIP in the first place.
If this is only about how the PIP was delivered. Then that is another story. By not having a meeting and formally addressing this and having you sign for the receipt of the PIP can lend itself to a lot of things that could be to your benefit in the long run ( consult with an attorney on the laws in your area) . A PIP gives you time to find a job, take a hard look at yourself and see what the issues stated about you/your work is in the workplace(it may or may not be factual - but it is perception).
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 10:24PM UTC
Managers can be forced to do a PIP. The back-story is probably that the manager has complained to HR and HR said, "this is what you have to do." So many managers have absolutely no idea how to manage it's almost criminal.
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 4:34PM UTC
Don't quit, find out the details about what happens to get you out of the pip and the why of the pip. If it is fixable do that. Yes you are feeling bad about the way it was delivered but do note that you should professionally address the reasons you were pip-ed and learn from them. If it is something you can change do so. Not every pip has to be a tragedy. Yes, you can also look for a new job but don't run from what may be valuable feedback for your career.
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 7:03PM UTC
Don't quit. This isn't the market to quit and assume you will find another job next week.
If someone is fired, most states will not provide unemployment benefits. However that's not necessarily true. If the claim is sketchy and you make a valiant attempt at corrective action (valid or not) you can still receive unemployment.
Speaking from experience here. I was put on a PIP after having had glowing performance reviews. I put my head down, tried to change as requested and stay off 'her' radar. She still wasn't happy. When I was gone people were floored. She gave 3 different stories as to why I was let go. I gave this narrative to the unemployment office and got unemployment benefits.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 12:25PM UTC
If you get fired due to performance issues and not something illegal, you will more than likely receive UI. This has happened to me.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 1:34PM UTC
This depends on the state. Where I am, if you are put on a PIP and can perform to the stated standard but fail to do so, the company can appeal the UI claim. It happened to me. I won the appeal because the documented reason for the termination was not included in the PIP.
AnonymousOctober 18,2023 at 10:22PM UTC
The PIP was never discussed with you? It's almost a contract, and both parties have obligations.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 12:27PM UTC
I would definitely look for a new job because many times they have already decided to get rid of you and they are just going through the process.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 12:56PM UTC
Find something, anything, ASAP, because they are not playing fair. You could turn into Oprah Winfrey and they would still follow through with the plan. Use up your PTO, because they may not pay you out. If you have reason to take a leave do so to extend your employment while you find something else so there’s not a gap in your resume. If you don’t have anything by your next “meeting” then call out sick. The same thing happened to me and I wish I would have been more strategic. If you are terminated on a Monday, unemployment will not pay you for that week. Print or forward any documentation you may need regarding your performance or mistreatment. Make sure to save contact information, etc. that you may need in the future. Ask for as much feedback as possible and get everything in writing. I recorded my meetings on my phone just in case I needed them for an attorney. I found something rather quickly and wish the same for you. Hold your head high and don’t let them win by taking away your sanity.
KathrynOctober 19,2023 at 2:11PM UTC
Yes this for sure and yes record if you can. I live in a one party state the ones where you can record and don't have to tell. But if you have to tell be very matter of fact I am recording this so I do not miss anything important.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 4:02PM UTC
Good advice. I was put on a PIP by a new supervisor after working somewhere for 5.5 yrs. Before she was my supervisor, I knew she didn’t like me for who knows what reason bc I always smiled and said hi to everyone, including her, but she just ignored me. She was two faced, pretending to be so friendly with me in front of others and so mean and rude in private. She made up some dumb responsibilities on the PIP that I never did before and when I didn’t complete it (the person I reported to about the assignment was different from the boss lady) she told me they really didn’t know how long the assignment would take. I was given the option to resign. I worked with lawyers and a nice one told me to hire a lawyer for this situation bc she saw what was happening. I did after the termination and was told there was no way to prove someone didn’t like me and fired me for that reason. Funny thing is that 10 yrs after the termination/my resignation, I met someone at a job that worked with that boss elsewhere. That person said she was just trying to get ahead and was awful, so it wasn’t just me. She had moved up from that job to a highly public position and one day left it “to pursue other opportunities”. She was doing shady stuff with her MCLE (continuing legal education). I don’t know what else, but that definitely sounded like she was fired and I felt like karma had gotten her.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 6:53PM UTC
You can not collect unemployment for the first week of being unemployed. That is considered a waiting period. It doesn't matter if it is a Monday or Friday - it is still one week waiting period you have to fulfill. That is why they tell you to apply right away. You get the one week waiting period over and then the unemployment payments will start. As for just quitting or checking out - really step back and understand what it is that the PIP contains, None of us likes to hear things about us that we don't agree with, but something happened to cause that part to be noticed and noted. Learn from it instead of just checking out or running away.
Meghan RoadOctober 19,2023 at 8:22PM UTC
“You can not collect unemployment for the first week of being unemployed. That is considered a waiting period. It doesn't matter if it is a Monday or Friday - it is still one week waiting period you have to fulfill. “
That’’s a matter of state law, and depends on how that particular state handles unemployment payments. You can’t make a blanket statement about a “waiting period” when you don’t know what state the poster lives in…..
Mary MeffeOctober 19,2023 at 10:39PM UTC
In Ohio you would not collect in a week where you had any earnings. Then there is a waiting week after that where you do not collect unemployment and cannot have any earnings in that week.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 10:41PM UTC
Sorry if I upset anyone. In NY, I was told I was ineligible for UI the week I was fired because I worked that Monday. I qualified the following Monday.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 10:37PM UTC
I refuted my PIP with a 14 page response with teams chats and other documentation and didn’t even get a meeting with HR. My newly hired boss didn’t even give me a reason I failed to meet standards. There’s a special spot in hell for managers that come into a company, don’t know what they’re doing, then “stack the courts” with their own people. Meanwhile, every time my new director calls a meeting I think I’m about to be fired.
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 12:43PM UTC
My first spot from university badly micromanaged. Same feeling when summoned to the boss at current spot. Document good and bad always now, and go to hire-ups who can help.
AnonymousOctober 19,2023 at 5:16PM UTC
I don't quite understand. Why is HR creating the PIP and not your Manager? Did you violate an HR policy? If truly performance, why would it not be between you and him? Is there someone senior to the HR manager you can go to?
Amy GrimshawOctober 20,2023 at 12:30PM UTC
They want to fire you but they feel there is legal liability, more costs associated with getting rid of you so they are managing you out. Don’t stay or even bother complaining. Ride the wave as long as you can and milk them for all you get. Go on fmla leave until you find another job and not go back.
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 12:51PM UTC
Best advice. This pattern is not new and management has used this play before.
manka05October 20,2023 at 12:54PM UTC
How can you give such inaccurate "advice?" Go on FMLA leave ?
For what reason? I'm sure your response would be....just find a doctor to make something up. Good luck to you. I'm sure you are a star employee.
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 12:35PM UTC
Take it from personal experience. Do NOT react while you are full of emotions. If you disagree with the content, ask the author of the PIP to meet with you to discuss (they should have done that anyway).
I went through this during Covid. I did some "not so professional" emotional writing and it nearly cost me my job. I met with my Boss' boss and we discussed it calmly. He gave me some reasons and I got a new understanding.
I left and I was determined that I was going to change my outlook. I am still with the company and have been promoted twice since this incident. A PIP isn't the end of your career unless you want it to be.
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 12:59PM UTC
This may be a silly question, but what were the inaccuracies on the PIP?
G C HesseOctober 20,2023 at 1:08PM UTC
Do the quiet quiting and find a position that does not do this PIP crap and that exactly what it is.
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 1:29PM UTC
I had the same experience but my boss was the slayer. He used the information as an excuse to later get rid of me. I'm sure he discriminated me but then you know how hard it is to prove discrimination specially when my boss did everything "by the book".
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 1:35PM UTC
Same. Complete BS and I met everything and more on the PIP. Even made 100% sure I submitted the same work product as my direct peers. However, best thing that could have happened. My new job is awesome!
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 3:16PM UTC
I am going through that very thing right now. My PIP was that I didn’t stock the fridge w water for our board. What I reported to the Board Chair was that she was seen by another employee taking my waters out and putting hers in. Once I reported her to the Board things are quiet for me…for now. Hang in there chickie! You’re def not alone!
Acacia ParksOctober 20,2023 at 4:00PM UTC
There's no way you got a PIP and your manager didn't know about it. They're playing dumb to avoid conflict. Get out of there as fast as you can (but I agree on quiet quitting - no sense in depriving yourself of income).
EMILY KIKUE FRANKOctober 20,2023 at 4:13PM UTC
You can always refuse to sign a PIP, but be aware you may be let go if so. I'd opt to dispute it, but you will need lots of evidence to back up your arguments.
KathyOctober 20,2023 at 4:45PM UTC
The company has to provide evidence too. In my experience PIPs are used to create a paper trail and often contain very little factual information.
KathyOctober 20,2023 at 4:43PM UTC
PIPs are mainly used to create a paper trail so the company can fire or lay off an employee with minimal consequences such as a law suit.
In my experience the PIP contains very little factual information.
There is no way your manager didn't know about the PIP. He probably initiated it.Try to hold on as long as can while job hunting.
One strategy is negotiate a severance package. Don't let them intimidate you into quitting, that will jeopardize any unemployment compensation.
Good luck!
AnonymousOctober 20,2023 at 5:51PM UTC
I'm in general agreement about PIPs, it's a declaration to document the idea that you're not good enough at your job and a prime person to lay off. You may be fine or even great at your job. I've seen people survive this, but it depends on what the job means to you and it could be years of incredibly hard work, mostly holding your tongue and making decisive defenses of yourself at other times which may cause negative labels for winning. If it's easy for you to get fulltime jobs with full benefits, then yes, start looking right away and draw together your references now. Things to consider: How long have you been at your job or jobs? Is this a one-time bad fit or a series of them? A one-time thing shouldn't affect you much, if you're having trouble staying anywhere, I'd put a lot of thought and shop carefully for your next job. Can you transfer to another role at your company? Having multiple years counts to how much a company will trust you. If you can find a better role, then you look more employable in the future.
Sophia KellyOctober 20,2023 at 8:20PM UTC
I didn't know what a PIP was so I looked it up and found this link to a lawyer website with some advice. One thing it recommended was not to sign the PIP and to refute it in a letter. You might find the specifics helpful: https://www.monkhouselaw.com/performance-improvement-plan-canada/
David PageOctober 21,2023 at 2:17AM UTC
Document everything or as much as U can. Leaving a paper trail of what U have done.
David PageOctober 21,2023 at 2:18AM UTC
I'm not sure if they can just slide it under Ur door. Or they have to deliver it straight in to your hand.
Karen PatwaOctober 21,2023 at 12:39PM UTC
If the PIP is inaccurate, what is their goal? As a woman, you're in a protected class in the US. Is this happening to others? Definitely see a lawyer or HR/exit strategist for a professional perspective and look for patterns of behavior or perceptions that may have led to this. If someone slipped a PIP under your door, there were some conversations that had to happen before that occurred, and there may have been signs that this was coming, which should be examined. If not, that's problematic as well.
AnonymousNovember 1,2023 at 11:01PM UTC
Thank you for your response, Karen.
Do you know of any exit strategists that you could refer to me?
This company has so many issues, especially regarding ethics and discrimination (which I know is hard to prove unless you have hard evidence and the evidence that I have is circumstantial at best.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Karen PatwaNovember 2,2023 at 11:05PM UTC
Yes, I can. If you dm me on Linkedin via inmail or connection. I can reply back with her info. My link is in my bio. You could also look up the Anti-HR HR Lady online and you should be able to easily find it. Feel free to reach out if there's any other way I can support.
AnonymousOctober 21,2023 at 12:48PM UTC
A department that pips you is not one you want to stay in, especially handled as poorly as this. I suggest you start looking for new employment.
That said, I fought a pip and won years ago, but as another commenter stated, it damaged all ability to get promoted and I was Punished for overcoming in a variety of other more subtle ways. I think I put up with it from my crappy past, I've healed a lot since then. In my case it was clear that the ethos of management by pip came from the head of the dept even tho that person was not directly involved. My winning made her look bad by showing the absurdity of that approach. In hindsight I wish I'd left sooner. But I had young kids and was primary wage earner. If your company is large, it can still be beneficial to move to an unrelated dept to get out of that situation.