I was on FMLA for 12 weeks to take care of my very sick child.

57 Comments

1. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 4:26PM UTC

   That's a shame. I've had a few instances where employees went out on medical leave, managers come to me complaining of performance issues and want to address immediately upon return and just no. Give the person an opportunity to get back into the swing of things. Coach them. Work with them. Make sure they know what expectations are. I don't want to go into one of these PIP meetings (as HR) and the employee in question is totally blindsided by these discussions. Performance meetings should never come as a shock to an employee. I'm disappointed for you.

2. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 6:13PM UTC

   A good HR person. How rare...

3. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:44PM UTC

   My saying “people who work in HR are neither humane nor are they resources.”

4. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 5:54PM UTC

   Since it's a PIP, Performance Improvement Plan, that is not retaliation and as it could have been a concern when you were working prior. Sometimes people go on LOA when there's discussions already going on about someone's performance and when they go on LOA you aren't able to give them that PIP at that time and has to wait until they return to the business. It is very hard to prove. All PIPs have stipulations that provide what the next steps could be if there isn't improvement, again, regular part of a PIP. You decided to quit without working on their steps provided for improvement. Yes, hard to prove as no adverse actions were actually taken with you. A PIP is not adverse, if anything it's a chance to improve to not be separated from the business. NOT what you wanted to read, I get it.

5. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 6:08PM UTC

   I appreciate your comment, In my state, PFML runs concurrently with FMLA. And PFML specifically lists "disciplinary action within 6 months of returning to work" to be considered retaliation.

6. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 7:23PM UTC

   I hesitate to think that this is retaliation though, performance improvement plan is not a form of retaliation. That is very clear.

7. Dcre1977July 29,2023 at 12:37PM UTC

   It certainly can be retaliation, particularly if there was no communication before hand about performance or it was all positive, and the tasks to be completed are not reasonable or clear on how they will be judged. That can be a method of constructive dismissal.

8. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:14PM UTC

   The missing info is the timeline, when you leave on LOA, sometimes it's not planned, as this one probably wasn't planned out to take care of a sick child. I think if they're honest with themselves, they aren't surprised but only surprised that is still on their radars of behaviors that are a concern. PIP allows for time to improve, not retaliation. So much hate going on, I think it's time to be honest on our own efforts, myself included, and to be open for opportunities of improvement. We all have ebs and flows of life, sometimes we lack and sometimes we strive, it's all relevant. Be coached, address what needs to change, and go on.

9. Dcre1977July 29,2023 at 9:27PM UTC

   As I stated it could be retaliation. Your assumption that all PIPs are done just to get employee improvement is naive.

10. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:00PM UTC

    howe, a PIP should not have surprise information in it. All issues should have already been addressed prior to a PIP.

11. Lisa McCartneyJuly 29,2023 at 12:10PM UTC

    Which state is this?

12. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 6:09PM UTC

    Yeah, but what if it has NOTHING TO DO WITH PERFORMANCE and it's just slimy retaliation??? I got a PIP from HR 9 days after I turned down a VP in the dept. What I turned him down for wasn't work-related... And I had just gotten a raise and $2K bonus on a performance review the day before I turned him down. Yes, they eventually fired me after putting me through long, drawn out trauma and yes, they eventually settled... Your tone suggests that you must be in HR. Not a fan...

13. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 7:26PM UTC

    Your experience is yours. It doesn't seem align with the experience this person is referring to. Not a fan, that you went through such a tough time. My tone could also mean there's a sense of expertise in this field and professionalism for when others jump to conclusion. Again, I'm sorry to read of your experience and hope life is better.

14. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 2:38PM UTC

    This response is a perfect example of why companies can and continue to let toxic managers get away with doing this. PIPs in many cases are used as tools for retaliation when a toxic manager wants to get rid of or punish an employee for reasons other than performance. It is they said vs. they said, and the company will protect the managers and themselves over the employee every time unless the circumstances are blatantly and easily proven to be illegal. For those who haven't been on the wrong side of this scenario or had a loved one who has, congratulations to you. I hope it never happens. To those, like me, who have, I understand and believe you. You cannot win with these people, as wrong as it is. The best we can do is put this chapter of our lives behind us and move on, because we are worth more than this and are not defined by these people or these circumstances.

15. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 1:25PM UTC

    Thank you for understanding! It's a terrible thing to go through, and a terrible realization that these companies simply DO. NOT. CARE. I appreciate your empathy, thank you so much!

16. Kim PfeifferJuly 27,2023 at 6:17PM UTC

    Sorry. It's been my experience that employment lawyers are useless unless it's blatant sexual harassment against a very high up executive with a company with very deep pockets. Otherwise they won't bother.

17. AnonymousJuly 27,2023 at 6:31PM UTC

    You are correct in that this is definitely retaliation. Similar scenario happened to me after an FMLA Leave. Did you resign before you consulted the attorney? If so, that’s probably why the attorneys are telling you this. I remained employed but consulted an attorney and he specifically told me I could not quit without losing my case.

    if your previous performance record was good prior to this PIP and they had never given you any reason to believe your work was less than satisfactory then all of that speaks for itself in the timing of the PIP .

18. Deanna YoungJuly 29,2023 at 12:58PM UTC

    Agree!! Sometimes we have to breathe and understand the big picture.

19. maria roseJuly 27,2023 at 6:55PM UTC

    Since the PIP timing is the issue and not the FLMA, the only thing wrong with this situation would be the timing since there’s no evidence given here of performance problems at the job prior to the FLMA. What I am not seeing or understanding is whether there was constant follow up during the FLMA period—you simply don’t go on these leaves without needed paperwork follow up. Plus there is nothing about prior performance and time off requests issues. Again we are only given what happened from one side option and not the full picture of the employee and employer situation.

    Granted personal issues outside the workplace should not affect job performance and usually doesn’t impact because the employee is not affecting the dynamics of the workplace. But I gather this specific workplace needs all employees in the workplace during their scheduled time and taking time off constantly because of outside factors does affect workplace performance hence the PIP and the resentment of getting one right after taking a FLMA.

    Sometimes the job may pay what you want but the conditions required to get that pay don’t match your personal needs. This person wanted a very flexible work schedule program at their specific needs. At this point just focus on moving on

20. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:42PM UTC

    Wow, you sound like a really kind person. ? May you never have something terrible happen in your life that affects your ability to work. Karma is nasty.

21. rgstaffing@bellsouth.netJuly 29,2023 at 12:26PM UTC

    Firstly and most importantly, I hope your child is recovering. I imagine that it would be very difficult to return to work and probably worrisome with a very sick child even though hopefully recovering. I also imagine that it could have affected your work in a way very different than before you went on FLMA. And I agree with Maria--we are only given one side of the story. I would suggest that you look for a hybrid job and in this case, I think a work from home job may meet your needs better.

22. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 12:37PM UTC

    Ihope your child is doing well. If you had stayed the 4 weeks, there would have been some kind of severance. I know it can be difficult to stay in this kind of environment, but now you have o income.

    The job market. Is not easy and just quitting isn't going to solve things in the long run. This may sound harsh and I will be raked over the coals. I have been reading a lot of these posts where people just quit or tell others to quit. Life isn't fair dealing with conflict is a necessary skill everyone needs to perfect.

23. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:34PM UTC

    Not all jobs give severance

24. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 2:38PM UTC

    More than likely there wouldn’t have been severance. Severance is typically only used for layoffs, not performance based terminations.

25. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:09PM UTC

    What were the reasons for the PIP? Are they related to your f m l a?... Regardless, you opted to quit, so there isn't much any of us can do now.. I agree with others who say you probably should have stayed there and worked this out, You would have at least gotten unemployment if you lost your job.. I also understand your feelings of being angry and loss, but when you quit, You basically gave them what they wanted.. Now you are struggling with anger and regret. And I understand how you feel. But I think you're powerless to do anything now.

26. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 3:25PM UTC

    Obviously, the poster's priority was on the health of her child. It's easy to "Monday morning quarterback" what the poster should or should not have done based on the limited background information presented in this post.

27. Aisha LeachJuly 29,2023 at 1:20PM UTC

    I’ve been in HR for 25+ years. Saying a PIP can’t be retaliatory is ridiculous! It absolutely can be retaliatory! As another person posted, it’s HR’s responsibility to suss out why anyone who has been on leave would receive a PIP upon return from FMLA! Question the motivation and actions for such a move!

    The time to deal with performance issues is when they occur, not after an extended leave. If you are blindsided by a performance action, you are well within your rights to understand and question why!

    If you are an HR professional that just goes along with these types of actions without question, you are 1) putting the company at risk for retaliation complaints and 2) doing a disservice to your employees.

    Having said all that what happened may be Constructive Discharge, meaning you felt compelled to resign based on work conditions or how you were treated. If an attorney was not helpful, you can also check with your state’s EEOC office to find out if you can file a claim.

    Good luck!

28. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:29PM UTC

    Obviously it can, but it obviously cannot. You can't make this a generalization response without first knowing the full picture and anyone with 25+ years would pause.

29. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 1:21PM UTC

    Thank you, Aisha! I will reach out to my state's EEOC office. :)

30. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:27PM UTC

    I was retaliated against for taking leave at a job .... the name of the company I would rather not disclose. It was a bank and I probably ticked off the regional manager. They tried to transfer me to another loan center with the same title and base pay, but a demotion in duties that meant I would no longer earn bonus. I declined the transfer and ended up being the "point man on the phones". I started as the receptionist, but had been promoted to processor a long time before that. I took 2 weeks off with a doctor's note to eat up my sick pay balance and resigned to go back to school. Never looked back.

31. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 1:28PM UTC

    The leave was to take care of my mother during her final illness. This stunt was not appreciated.

32. AnonymousAugust 10,2023 at 9:15PM UTC

    Wow. Just...wow.

    However, I can see certain people in leadership being callous enough not to offer grace.

33. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 2:08PM UTC

    You needed a better attorney! However, because you quit and weren't fired, your options are more limited. What matters more is your well-being and that of your little one. Congratulations, BTW. If the employer fired you, they would be in very deep trouble. The older I get, the less I care about getting back at horrible people who have really caused me harm when I did nothing wrong. it is more important to let it go and be happy or make choices to be happy. It doesn't mean you can't be angry about this but it is now in the past. Speaking from experience, I would not want anyone to dwell in past wrongs the way I have. So, please, be happy. Let these creeps go and be happy you are no longer in their miserable company. You deserve better. We all do.

34. CJB62July 29,2023 at 3:20PM UTC

    I feel your frustration! Was there a change in management during the time your were on FMLA? Seems odd that if you were having performance issues, this wasn’t brought up prior to your leave. Yes, timing is very suspicious as you were given your PIP the moment you got back.

    Whether you did the right thing by resigning- a resigning looks better than a firing when you are seeking a new job. However, once you left the company, much of your bargaining power went away. I wouldn’t talk you out of continuing to pursue legal recourse against your former employer and I would fight perhaps for continued company paid medical rather than flat monetary compensation. Might be easier to win.

    But do you want to spend time and money (lawyers don’t work for free) pursuing this? Rather than trying to find another job?

    Anyway, best of luck to you and with your little one. Life throws you curve balls for sure. Stay strong- you got this!

35. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 4:35PM UTC

    I'm truly sorry this happened to you and I hope your child feels better and is recovering. Unfortunately, companies do as they please, it's hard to prove otherwise. I currently work for a company that is choosing to blatantly disregard that FMLA even exists for a co-worker. My co-worker has medical necessity to take days off, as needed. My thoughts are that they want to let her go, if things become a burden for them, because of her higher pay. HR or whomever has just chosen to make things up to where it's not even in line with the US Department of Labor guidelines! Btw, I'm not sure which state you're in but some areas of the nation are horrible in regards to workers rights, in fact, unless you're in a union, don't bother with bad jobs in GA! Leverage against an employer is called working for yourself, I think that's the only way in the USA.

36. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 5:12PM UTC

    Yes, but...the cost to you emotionally and financially with lawyers and others involved is not likely to go easy for you as you tend to your child. Note: I am not condoning this at all but if you had not quit I would have given you other advice. Did you ask for being put on FMLA? If you did and did not get that time set with your HR team then you have been taken advantage of. Not knowing the details of the why they PiP'ed you- which they should have, its hard to say whether you could have staved off the losing your job part given their behavior. If you had stayed and tried to get out of the PiP and not gotten through it you would at least have unemployment or they might have done a package when you left. You could write a letter to their legal team and let them know that you may pursue legal action against the company because of the medical situation. Let them know you are willing to speak to them about not going to court but that you will file an EEOC complaint against them because of what they did to you. Good luck, but IMHO move forward and don't waste your valuable time on them, they don't deserve you.

37. AnonymousJuly 29,2023 at 10:55PM UTC

    You must have extremely strong evidence of stellar performance for an attorney to accept your case. Thinking that your word against the company leadership, HR and other coworkers will prevail, you are setting yourself up.

38. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 12:53PM UTC

    I completely understand why you resigned. You have to protect yourself and your family from a toxic workplace. I see this route a lot and want to propose an alternative for anyone experiencing this…don’t resign. Discrimination/retaliation usually needs an adverse employment action depending on the state. They did their homework in documenting why they don’t want you to work there, so you’ll need to do the same. Set a meeting with them and explain why each of the performance issues you had related to your health and your child’s health, then follow up in writing. Save emails regarding your performance or anything you think is important. I’d print them since they can monitor your inbox. During your meetings, be very open about how difficult it is to meet expectations and follow up in email. Then, once they make a move by firing you, call an attorney and ask them to file a claim or negotiate for a larger severance. Some states will even allow employees to file workers comp claims for work stress.

    Good luck!

39. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 12:57PM UTC

    OI have been involved in litigation against an employer decades ago. Although the case was ultimately found in my favor, there was not pot of gold at the end. The time, cost and loss of personal resources was definitely not worth it. According to the "law" you have been retaliate against but there is so little teeth in the the law that an individual employee has little chance of enforcinging it. Usually it take several employees being treated in the same manner.So moving forward, you have a sick baby and need to address that situation. You have removed one stressor from your life. Although it may not seem like it in the moment. This was an employment situation that was not sympathetic to your situation. Even without resigning, I think you would agree that the "employee relationship" was damaged and it would only deteriorate; certainly you couldn't trust them any longer. My best advice is to "let go" of this former employment situation. Your emotions & stressors are running full out. They are all part of the mourning process. Yes, we do mourn the loss of a job when it isn't our choice. With all that is on your plate, please remember to take care of yourself. As hard as that is, it IS one of the most important things you can do for you and your baby.

40. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 1:14PM UTC

    I agree 100%, thank you! It was a very hostile work environment (I told HR this months prior to my having to be on leave) ... they simply don't care. My manager was finally put in a managerial class - and she DIDN'T SHOW UP! They just don't care about the worker bees.

41. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 2:12PM UTC

    Yes. I would STILL file with EEOC, and find a good EMPLOYMENT attorney. One that specializes in FMLA. Heck, I'd even send to Gloria Allred. You never know. She likes a good story, and if you get her or really any GOOD attorney, they will listen. These attorney's you spoke to sound lazy and incompetent. What state are you in? I'm currently going through something similar and my attorney sent them a demand letter. They are trying to play games, but we are in the right and he said we will definitely prevail. You literally have nothing to lose especially filing with EEOC. Try to gather as many documentation of your performance prior. Things like that are key. They broke the law and need to pay you

42. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 1:10PM UTC

    One of the lawyers I spoke with said we could do a demand letter ($$$$$) but there's no guarantee the company will even respond. I would love to fight this tooth and nail, believe me ... however now that I have no income, the legal fees alone would kill me.

43. AnonymousAugust 1,2023 at 6:05PM UTC

    Start by filing with the EEOC, because you'll need a right to sue letter from them, before you can legally bring a lawsuit against your former employer. I know what I'm talking about, because I've been through a situation before, where I was bullied and harassed until it took a toll on my health, and I was terminated because I was disabled which is illegal for an employer to do.

44. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 9:25PM UTC

    I had an employer pull this - PIP when there were no "prior incidents" after I told them I wasn't comfortable working a trade show or having to share a hotel room with another employee who had bullied and undermined my work in the past. I resigned and got an employment lawyer. Since I had documentation and prior emails informing the owner of the company of an existing issue he chose not to deal with...I was able to get them to settle out of court. There was a clear case of putting me in a situation where I had no other option but to quit. Documentation is key.

45. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 4:09PM UTC

    In any at will state they can usually get away with this, but I swear, I'd have to file something because that's just wrong! Employers will keep getting away with it if we keep letting them.

46. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 9:48PM UTC

    You've correct, they'll continue to do this because we're scared to loose our jobs! Unlike Europeans, we won't unite for better workers rights. People who have good jobs simply don't care about the other person. The problem is, unless your job is in a union, you can always become the other person here!

47. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 4:10PM UTC

    Are there any investigative reporters or similar in your area? Perhaps a call to them might get you somewhere.

48. KathyJuly 30,2023 at 7:11PM UTC

    Did they hire someone to replace you while you were out on FMLA?

    Technically when returning from FMLA the company has to give you job. It may not be the same job you had when you went out on FMLA but they still have to provide you with a job.

49. Alison GordonJuly 30,2023 at 11:29PM UTC

    The company HAS to bring an employee back to the same position or equivalent with the same pay etc. this is not good practice by any means!

50. AnonymousJuly 30,2023 at 11:37PM UTC

    Don't know what state you are located in. PA is an at-will employer. Which means you can be fired with no notice or reason. The same thing happened to me. I broke my collar bone which required surgery and physical therapy. Even though I was out of work on disability, upon my return I was bullied until eventually I was forced to resign. I still have nightmares about it. This is the workplace now. Unless you have a union, or can prove one of the "isms", you have no protection.

51. Michelle BerubeJuly 31,2023 at 12:58PM UTC

    It's called a constructive quit. Meaning the employer forced it with their retaliatory behavior and actions. And all anyone has to say is that any reasonable person would have felt as if they had to do the same thing under those circumstances. It runs rampant in the US, and all of the protections that are supposed to be available to us fail miserably. Because this is absolutely illegal what you went through, and even though you have the EEOC and you're supposed State protections, and everything else that is supposed to protect , are all overburdened and overwhelmed. Employers know this and because nothing ever happens to them, they continue to pull these illegal, immoral maneuvers. It doesn't help that other people constantly give advice like no it's not legal but don't bother to try end do anything because nothing good will happen for you. The problem is we all choose to go belly up and feel as if there's nothing we can do, then nothing will ever happen and nothing will ever change. In all actuality we absolutely need to keep fighting these things because if it's illegal then it's illegal. These employers should never get away with what they get away with and they need to be punished for breaking federal laws. But unless we continue to stand up for ourselves they will continue to get away with it. We should be fighting it regardless of what the outcome is going to be for personally but instead for the greater good of ensuring that this country abides by its own laws that they themselves have put in place to protect us.

52. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 6:43PM UTC

    I filed a complaint with the EEOC and my former employer decided it was in their best interest to settle out of court. I could've held out for a lot more but I just wanted to settle and move on with my life after my wrongful termination.

    I was terminated due to being disabled, and because I choose to file complaints with my HR department and upper management for harassment and bullying, and they didn't do anything to stop it! I made sure to keep everything backed up with names and approximate dates at home. I took the settlement that I received to pay off a few smaller bills and start my own small business.

    File a complaint with the EEOC ASAP, as you only have a very short amount of time after being let go to do so. As, it is highly illegal for them to discipline you for taking FMLA in your situation, and what they did was definitely retaliatory, it might take a few months to get a settlement with the EEOC's help, but it will definitely make you feel better to know that you were able to hold them legally accountable for what they did to you, and potentially prevent them from doing it again to someone else in the future.

53. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 3:07PM UTC

    thank you!

54. AnonymousJuly 31,2023 at 8:52PM UTC

    You need to file a complaint with the US Department of Labor. The US DOL is responsible for the FLMA regulations and cases of retaliation. To file a complaint here is the link https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints You do not need an attorney to file with the US DOL.

55. AnonymousAugust 2,2023 at 3:07PM UTC

    thank you!

56. Laurita DeniseAugust 1,2023 at 11:26PM UTC

    Contact OSHA they will do full investigation especially in your situation. They will make them give me your job back and also make sure there is no retaliation. That’s if you want it back because it seems like a bad company.

57. kdAugust 2,2023 at 1:49PM UTC

    You are right that this is illegal (even in At-Will states) and under the law, you can file an EEOC claim for retaliation. The burden of proof is actually on the company not you. Meaning the company has to prove it didn't retaliate. They will do this by trying to provide emails, write-ups, or meeting notes saying they addressed these situations with you prior to your leave.